Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Two U.S. senators say H-1B visas allow 'legal discrimination'

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:04 PM
Original message
Two U.S. senators say H-1B visas allow 'legal discrimination'
Source: Computerworld

WASHINGTON -- The H-1B visa program allows companies to "legally discriminate" against U.S. workers and displace them, said two U.S. senators who today introduced new legislation to "mend," not end, the controversial program.

The H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act, introduced by Sens. Chuck Grassley, (R-Iowa), and Dick Durbin, (D-Ill.), is similar to legislation the two senators introduced last year. But while the bill may be similar, what has changed since then is the economy.

Indeed, the two senators hope to the duplicate the success Grassley and co-sponsor Sen. Bernard Sanders, (I-Vt.), had in getting restrictions placed on H-1B use by financial services firms receiving bailout funds under the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP). That bill was approved as part of the massive stimulus package passed by Congress in February.

... The proposed bill requires U.S. employers looking to hire an H-1B visa holder to "first make a good-faith attempt" to recruit a qualified U.S. worker. It would also prohibit displacing U.S. workers with H-1B visa holders, ban "H-1B-only" ads and prevent employers from hiring additional H-1B and L-1 visa holders if more than half of their employees rely on those visas. The L-1 visa is used by companies to transfer foreign employees.


Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9132052
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. "good faith attempt" from employers = forget about it nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Exactly..
.... it's like that old joke, "sincerety, if you can fake that your in".

Employers can use all kinds of phony criteria to screen out Americans, when their only real criteria is hiring at 20% below the market rate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Yeah, like the "voluntary regulations" the financial industry was supposed to be doing...
We can see how well that worked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Grassley investigated Cohen & Grigsby lawyers
" video in which an immigration law firm offers advice on avoiding hiring U.S. workers when a foreign worker is preferred for a position set off a firestorm of criticism last week, drawing the attention, and ire, of a U.S. senator and congressman, who call it a "blatant disregard for American workers."

In a letter sent June 21 to Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, and Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, ask the Department of Labor to review the video and investigate the law firms "unethical procedures" and advice to clients. "

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Law-Firms-Video-a-Blatant-Disregard-for-American-Workers/

He got the tarp law in, now he's spreading it to everything

we'll see what happens with the loopholes, but you dont need to tell him, he already knows

could go either way, but i wouldnt be shocked if he went after them next

programmer's guild really did a job with that video, a huge step forward

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll bet law firms and accounting firms already have ways around the new law.
When I worked for accounting firms we always got weekly reports on how to get around any pending legislation so we could inform our clients if the legislation would effect them negatively. We paid a service to find loopholes even before the law was passed.

Does anyone remember the video where the accounting firm was giving a seminar on how to not hire American workers?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blue97keet Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. the seminar on how to not hire American workers was by
Cohen and Grigsby = a law firm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Discrimination works both ways.
:(

Nice to see politicians of different party affiliates working collectively.

Though "good faith" also has to go both ways.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. The program needs to be suspended indefinitely!
We have a MASSIVE pool of unemployed Americans who are more than qualified for these jobs! The only reason companies are using H-1B is to bring people in at a fraction of the cost. On a more personal level, I've seen too many H-1B employees being essentially treated as indentured servants - and confidentially they said so. They were under constant threat of losing their sponsorship if they didn't do whatever they were told and work as many hours as were demanded. It may have had a purpose at one time, but it has been so perverted that the entire thing needs to be halted and reconsidered.

So there.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. 100% Right - 0% Wrong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well Said and Agreed. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Cut out the all of the red tape and make it a $50-$100K/yr fee
for a H1-B Visa holder. If technical professionals cannot compete with that advantage, then we are in the wrong business. In fact let anyone who passes a security check buy their way into the country with the above referenced fee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Read Durbin's senate floor speech here, from 2007 - he states the complete reality of H-1b
Edited on Fri Apr-24-09 11:02 AM by ardvark
"employees being essentially treated as indentured servants - and confidentially they said so. They were under constant threat of losing their sponsorship if they didn't do whatever they were told and work as many hours as were demanded."

i know specific incidents of that 12 years ago, first hand accouts, from the H-1bs themselves, and i bet it wasnt the first time it ever happened

it's time for the Democratic Party leadership to quit 'playing dumb' on this - they KNOW what's going on, they've KNOWN what's going on, for a minimum of the last 2 years,probably waaay longer

Here's what Durbin said on the senate floor 2 years ago, promoting the last version of this bill - it's a long read, but please read it - they know EVERYTHING about this, and it's all in his speech below

Statement of Senator Dick Durbin on the Senate Floor

The H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act of 2007

May 8, 2007

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/16/183114/236

Mr. President, in the coming weeks the Senate will again consider legislation to reform our broken immigration system.

I think we all understand the challenge is substantial. If we want to solve the problem, we need a comprehensive approach that is tough but fair. We should improve border security by increasing manpower and deploying new technology. We should enforce the law against employers who are hiring millions of undocumented workers. And we need a realistic, honest approach to the 12 million undocumented immigrants who live and work in our country illegally.

Most importantly, we must ensure that immigration reform legislation protects the American economy and American workers as well.

I am concerned about the H-1B visa program as it is currently
structured. I am afraid it is being abused by foreign companies to deprive qualified Americans of good jobs.

To address this problem, Senator Grassley and I have introduced S. 1035, the H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud Abuse Prevention Act of 2007. This is a bipartisan bill. It would overhaul the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to protect American workers and crack down on unscrupulous employers.

The H-1B visa program was designed to allow employers to attract and hire high-skilled foreign workers with specialized knowledge. H-1B visas are probably best known for their use in technology to import computer engineers and programmers.

I can't tell you how many leaders in industry, including one this afternoon, come into my office and say: We absolutely need H-1B visas. We can't find enough people specialized education for our businesses. If you won't allow us to bring these workers in from overseas, we are going to be facing the possibility of taking our production facilities overseas where they live.

It is a compelling argument. I understand it on its face. But let me explain some of the problems with the current system and why Senator Grassley and I believe the system needs to be changed.

Supporters claim the goal of the H-1B program is to help the American economy by allowing U.S. companies to hire needed foreign workers. The reality is that H-1B visas are being used to facilitate the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries. It seems counterintuitive that a visa that allows people to come into the United States could lead to jobs being outsourced overseas, but when you hear my illustrations, you will understand the conclusion.

A recent expose in the International Herald Tribune disclosed that 8 of the top 10 H-1B visa applicants last year were outsourcing firms with major operations in one country--India. So in many cases it wasn't the American high tech company using the H-1B visa that was given this opportunity but, rather, a firm, more likely in India than any other country, that was given the authority to use H-1B visas to send workers into the United States. The Herald Tribune concluded:



As Indian outsourcing companies have become the leading consumers of the visa, they have used to it further their primary mission, which is to gain the expertise necessary to take on critical tasks performed by companies in the United States and perform them in India at a fraction of the cost.

According to this report, the Indian Government has been lobbying hard for the United States Government to increase the number of H-1B visas.

Kamal Nath, the Indian Commerce Minister, was very blunt when he said recently that the H-1B visa "has become the outsourcing visa." He concluded: "If at one point you had X amount of outsourcing and now you have a much higher quantum of outsourcing, you need that many more visas."

That is a very candid statement by this commerce minister in India. It should give us pause as we think about this program, what it was designed to do and what it is actually doing.

In other words, the Indian Government wants more H-1B visas so Indian companies can outsource more American jobs to India.

Let me be clear. India is a valuable American partner in commerce, diplomacy, and many other endeavors. Indians who have come to the United States have made immeasurable contributions to the benefit of our country in so many ways. I trust them as great friends. But some in India todayu nderstand that we have a weakness in our visa system and are using it for their own economic advantage.

It is not surprising the Indian Government is advocating on behalf of Indian companies. The American Government should advocate on behalf of American companies. I don't criticize the Indian Government for doing that. But we should expect the same from our Government for our workers. We need to stand up to make sure American workers don't lose their jobs to outsourcing because of H-1B visas.

H-1B supporters claim we need more H-1B visas to stop American jobs from being outsourced. That was the logic behind H-1B visas. It appears the opposite is true. Under the current system, more H-1B visas will mean more outsourcing.

Let me give an example. Indian outsourcing company Wipro was No. 2 on the list of top applicants for H-1B visas in the year 2006. Wipro has more than 4,000 employees in the United States, and approximately 2,500 of them are here on H-1B visas. It is pretty clear that when it comes to Wipro's American operation, the majority of the workers are here on H-1B visas. Every year Wipro brings 1,000 new temporary workers here from India, while they send another 1,000 U.S. trained workers back to India. This is essentially an outsourcing factory.

Here is what the Herald Tribune concluded:

"Rather than building a thriving community of experts and innovators in the United States, the
Indian firms seek to funnel work--and expertise--away from the country."

It is hard to believe, but it is perfectly legal to use the H-1B visa program for outsourcing. A foreign outsourcing company with a U.S. office can use H-1B visas to import workers from their home country, train the workers in the United States, and then outsource them back to their home country to populate businesses competing with the United States. They are not required to make any efforts to recruit American workers for these jobs. In fact, they can explicitly discriminate against American workers who apply for the same jobs by recruiting and hiring only workers from their home country.

Here is what the Labor Department says about the current law:

"H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of a foreign worker."

Is that what we had in mind with H-1B visas? That certainly wasn't the way it was explained to me. In fact, under current law, only employers who employ H-1B visa holders as a large percentage of their U.S. workforce are required to attempt to recruit American workers before bringing in foreign workers.

Senator Grassley and I have taken a look at this system. We both reject the notion that what is wrong with the H-1B program is that we need more visas. We have to look at the system that generates these visas and the way they are used. The legislation we have introduced would overhaul the H-1B program, protecting American workers first, and stopping H-1Bs from being exploited as outsourcing visas.

Here are the highlights. First and foremost, we would require all employers who want to hire an H-1B worker to attempt to hire an American worker first. Employers would also be prohibited from using H-1B visas to displace American workers. You can't fire an American and turn around and appeal to our Government for an H-1B visa to bring someone in from overseas to replace that worker.

This is an important principle. We have to make it clear that companies doing business in the United States have to give first priority to American workers.

Our bill would require that before an employer may hire an H-1B worker, the employer must first advertise the job opening to American workers for 30 days on the Department of Labor Web site.

Some companies that abuse the H-1B visa program are so brazen, they say "no Americans need apply" in their job advertisements. Hundreds of such ads have been posted on line. They say things such as "H-1B visa holders only" or "we require candidates for H-1B from India."

Is that what we have in mind, to create this perverse discrimination against American workers? That isn't the way it was explained to me. Our H-1B reform bill would prohibit this blatant discriminatory practice.

There is another serious problem with the H-1B visa program. Federal oversight is virtually nonexistent. Under current law there are many roadblocks to effective Government enforcement. For example, the Department of Labor does not have the authority to open an investigation of an employer suspected of abusing the H-1B program unless the Department receives a formal complaint, even if the employer's application is clearly fraudulent. Even if there is a complaint, the Labor Secretary--and this is something that is almost unique in our law--must personally authorize the opening of an investigation.

These restrictions in the law are aggravated by lax Government enforcement. According to the Department of Homeland Security's own Inspector General, Homeland Security has violated the law by approving thousands of H-1B applications in excess of the annual cap of 65,000. The Government Accountability Office found that the Labor Department approves over 99.5 percent of H-1B petitions it receives, including those that on their face clearly violate the law.

There is virtually no Government oversight of potential abuse in this system. The Labor Department's inspector general has concluded that the H-1B program is "highly susceptible to fraud." Remember, this program was designed to help the American economy, to help create jobs and prosperity in our country. Our Government is not even watching it closely to make sure that fraud isn't being perpetrated.

The bill Senator Grassley and I are proposing would give the Government more authority to conduct employer investigations and streamline the investigative process. Currently, the Labor Department is only authorized to review applications for "completeness and obvious inaccuracies." Our bill would give the Labor Department more authority to review employers' H-1B applications for "clear indicators of fraud or misrepresentation of material fact."

Our bill would authorize the Labor Department to conduct random audits of any company that uses the H-1B program and require the Department of Labor to conduct annual audits of companies that employ large numbers of H-1B workers. We would also increase the penalties for companies that violate H-1B visa rules and authorize the hiring of 200 additional Government investigators to oversee and enforce the H-1B program.

Last month, the government began accepting H-1B visa petitions for Fiscal Year 2008. In the first 24 hours, the government received 150,000 petitions for 65,000 slots, supposedly for the whole year. Based on last year's statistics, it is likely that the top petitioners for visas were companies from India. They understand the system. They understand how to make this profitable. But this is not the way it has been described to most Members of Congress. It certainly isn't consistent with our intent.

There is another program I wish to mention, the L-1 visa. The L-1 visa allows companies to transfer certain employees from foreign facilities to the United States for up to 7 years.

Experts have concluded that some employers use the L-1 program to evade restrictions on the H-1B program, because the L-1 program doesn't have an annual cap and doesn't include even minimal protections for American workers. As a result, efforts to reform the H-1B program are unlikely
to succeed if the L-1 program is not overhauled at the same time.

The bill Senator Grassley and I have prepared would reform the L-1 program.

We would establish for the first time whistleblower protections for those who call attention to employer abuses of L-1 programs, and for the first time we would authorize the Government to investigate and audit L-1 employers suspected of violating the law.

Before we are persuaded to increase the number of H-1B visas, we have to reform the program to protect American workers first and to stop H-1Bs from being used as outsourcing visas that send jobs and business away from America. That is what our bill would do, and that is what Senator Grassley and I will be pushing for as the Senate considers comprehensive immigration reform legislation.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thanks for posting. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Tom Tancredo laid out the H-1b truth raw on the House floor
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 12:10 PM by ardvark
I will tell my colleagues, Mr. Speaker, if that is the policy that
our government is undertaking, then it is simply the policy we should
tell our constituents about.

We should explain it to them. When my colleagues get a letter like this,
handwritten, three pages long, talking about what happened to them, how they
were displaced by foreign workers, we should write back and say it is the policy
of this government to displace you, to move you into a lower economic income
category because we believe in cheap labor and we believe that the
politics of open borders helps our party, in this case the Democrats,
as I say. The Republicans, it is the cheap labor side of things.

That is what we tell people. That is what we should do. That is how
we should respond because that is the truth of the matter; and I hope
that when we have people bring bills to the floor designed to do
something about jobs, which we hear over and over again, do something
about jobs, I just hope that they will think about one thing they could
do. There is something that we could do tomorrow to improve the quality
of life for millions and millions of American citizens

there's more worth reasing from this speech here - scroll to, or search for "time} 1645" to get to the H-1b L1 visa topic


http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2003_record&docid=cr18jn03-107

but combine this with durbin's speech above in this thread, read in the Senate, proves that BOTH houses of congress have heard the truth read in their chambers

thee question we must ask is WHY thy dont act on it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Like someone else here said....
Edited on Sat Apr-25-09 01:57 PM by OhioChick
Everyone in the House and Senate should be required to wear company logos...so "We the People" can see who they're representing. (Like Nascar drivers do)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Tancredo? eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Damn right
The program needs to be suspended, and any company that tries to get around it should be fined a trillion dollars. I'm so sick of these companies doing everything they can to destroy our way of life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Amen, preach the word.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think perhaps the worker visa programs should be suspended, altogether.
But, I support this bill, extremely wholeheartedly, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm looking forward to Obama's statement on this
I'd think he would support Senator Durbin of Illinois
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DatManFromNawlins Donating Member (640 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. Institute the American Workforce Retraining Act (Tax)
What I mean by that is that if you cannot find a US worker to do the job your company needs done, and you HAVE to go find an H1-B, then you should pay the H1-B holder 100% of the average wage in his industry in the specific locale that you are hiring them in, and you should pay a tax equal to 35% of that worker's salary towards a program designed to train or retrain American workers to do the job.

I think you'll find that companies will suddenly find a HUGE number of qualified workers available, and/or workers who meet most of those standards and perhaps need a little on the job training. Additionally, it will stop companies from completely bullshitting their laundry list of requirements that they currently legally use to disqualify American workers.

When I was a recruiter, I'd see jobs come up with requirements that didn't even make sense. The qualifications were so nonsensical pertaining to the actual role the prospective employee was expected to fill that nobody could actually fill the role. They just didn't match up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC