US Adopts Aggressive Tactics on Iraqi Fighters (takes wives, kids hostage)

Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather the intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: "If you want your family released, turn yourself in." Such tactics are justified, he said, because, "It's an intelligence operation with detainees, and these people have info."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54345-2003Jul27.html

and they will backfire

The rest of this report sounds like Viet Nam era propaganda - winning the support of "the people" and victory is just around the corner. We are in a world of hurt.

...from a dorm with only 20 minutes notice. they said it was because attacks could come from the building. US military has occupied the dorm and the students will have to find other places to live... this was on the BBC world report on the radio... no link.

:toast:

guys come home. there are going to be more than a few murder-suicide's in the group.

Senior U.S. commanders here are so confident about their recent successes that they have begun debating whether victory is in sight. "I think we're at the hump" now, a senior Central Command official said. "I think we could be over the hump fairly quickly" -- possibly within a couple of months, he added.

Hogg, whose troops are still engaged in combat every day, agreed. "I think we're fixing to turn the corner," he said Thursday. "I think the operations over the next couple of weeks will get us there."

It's funny how this story talks about the "declining frequency of attacks," as though the events of the weekend never happened.

but increasing in effectiveness.

From the report, it sounded like the "enemy" is pretty resourceful and agile - and not at all like the bunch of "dead-enders" Rummy would have us believe they are...

I'm fucking speechless...

WTF! Now we're holding hostages?! Who's the terrorist, here?! My gods, it means nothing to be an American anymore!! We are worse than any potential enemy, because we KNOW this behavior is criminal!


And are the commanders lying to themselves, their troops or the US public? The attacks have picked up in freqency and intensity - this is both frightening and sickening.


edit: content

We're terrorizing women and children.

And if the man does not turn himself in, then what? We rape the women, kill the children?

What do we do next?

Of course, if we decide not to rape, torture or kill, then leaving the wife and kids with the US army may just keep them fed, watered, and housed during the crisis.

Either way, not likely to bring about the desired result.

Pigs are intelligent animals. Hogg, however, is an idiot.

Saddam of doing and complaining that these tactics made Saddam evil?

Anyone involved in that operation should be removed from duty and prosecuted.

Attacking innocent civilians and holding them hostage is a crime and no amount of "following orders" will make the cut!

Hogg is a nazi pig.

I'm now officially ashamed to be an American.

WE'RE FUCKING NAZIS!!!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT IS FUCKING HAPPENING!!!!!

It is time for all civilized nations of the world to call home their ambassidors and sever all diplomatic ties to the US! The UN should close up shop in this benighted place and reconvene ina civil nation. Only something like this would get the attention of the nation and our government! The Us has to be branded a rouge nation, with no moral standing. The nations of the world have got to stand up to these Nazi usurpers before it is too late! This can still be saved, but time is running out!

this should be yet another set of war crimes attributed to him.

We're turning into animals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=90654

Pity the young soldiers taking orders from these monsters.

and child abuse... huge mistake in the muslim countries to involve women. you`re a coward in their eyes and not worthy of respect of a warrior...remember this is still a tribal culture that goes back thousands of years. each new degradation is another dead or mained soldier coming home...."but the money keeps rolling in" doesn`t it?

Break out the concentration camps:puke:

The Nazis are those that support this regime and its use of the military for its conquest.

Now this may sound a little off the wall, but does anyone think that the reason that this misadministration is letting the military do these kind of things is so that they can apply this experience to be used against the American people.

If you think about it, what criminal doesn't want its accomplices to
have as much blood on their hands as he does. How can this officer in
the 4th Waffen SS ID(Mech) refuse an order to arrest American citizens
when he has blatantly violated the Geneva Covention, he can't.

So far the Iraqi resistance has only targeted coalition military and
civilian collaborators for the most part, now with the taking of hostages the rules no longer apply. I predict that Mr Bremer and most
of his civilian staff will be moving their offices to Kuwait, before
things are done. With the killing of civilians, let's call it what it really is, the murder of civilians, and the taking of hostages, the US
military no longer desereves to have the Geneva Convention apply to them.

chop off the head...

In this case it would be sufficient to chop off Rumsfeld's head literally. That would send a message to the military using these methods.

As for Bush... nothing that can really be done about it until 2004.

In the meantime it would be prudent for all of us to write to all of the true religious leaders to complain about the tactics use by Bush.

In addition, stir the people up so that they revolt against their republican reps and senators.

Even though there won't be an impeachment of bush there could still be enough to upset the people to decide that they have to vote these creeps out of office.

I have been thinking for a long time now about the officers that run our military. They all seem to be die hard right wing fanatics. The military just keeps pumping out this type of person. Guess one has to be right wing inorder to go up the ladder in the US military. I have come to feel that this breeds a quality that is not good for our Democracy. Thank god my two sons will not go in the military. I now can not support troops that do the sort of things that are happening in Iraq. My nephew will not recieve a care package from me. He's re-upping for six more years when he gets his ass shipped over in October. He's strong Repuk---he's re-upping over there so he doesn't have to pay tax on his bonus---what a Repuk asshole!!! Then he wants me to pay taxes to support him---think not! Wife and I are Emigrating to New Zealand in November---don't ever care to come back!

you can blame your nephew for the actions of those in charge. If it were my nephew, I would still want to show my love and support on a personal, not a political level.

Too bad you feel like you have to leave the U.S. Most of us here are committed to sticking around and trying to fix what's broken.

I hear it's pretty tough to get into New Zealand. Do you have connections or some special job skills?

Wives and Daughters???

Our suckitude hits new heights daily.

:kick:

The Convention expressely prohibits taking of hostages - but of course it don't apply to W/GOP - they walk with God!

Is this the model of civilized justice and democracy we're trying to teach the Iraquis? Torture? Shot first and ask questions later? Extortion?

bump

COME ON!!!!!

If the US Army feels that this is acceptable behaviour then they have no room to complain if similar tactics are used against them.

I've said it before and I've said it again - you CANNOT use terrorist tactics to fight terrorism no matter what the provocation. Your refusal to use such tactics is the main thing that lends legitimacy to your claims that you are fighting the good fight. If US soldiers are being ordered to kidnap non-combatants and hold them for ransom, then I'm sorry, but the operation in Iraq has no moral justification and the "terrorists" have every right to fight back. Once it becomes impossible to differentiate between the tactics of the two sides then as far as I'm concerned they're as bad as each other.

It sounds like the rules have gone out of the window and it's just a slaughter now...

Of course, it's the senior officers / government who make the policies and the GIs who will take the casualties and the prosecutions...

First, the question: Is detaining the wife and daughter of someone who one thinks is an enemy a "legal order"?

If it is not, and a soldier questioned that order, what would be the consequences? I would think that the chain of command would not allow this to continue and would come down hard on the soldier. This is the kind of thing that can flash thru the ranks and cause real dissention.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/944890.asp?cp1=1

It will be interesting to see what the reaction to this is, if any. I'll bet most people don't even care. Now, if they did that to us, that would be terrorism.

Seriously - why is someone senior in the Army a) stupid enough and b) permitted to tell the press that he is specifically ordering his troops to do things that are at best morally dubious and at worst illegal?

This is very odd......."The master criminal always makes one fatal mistake....his was to announce his misdeeds to representatives of the world's media".

P.

they will have their Jihad if they keep messing with Muslim woman.

Is to see what the reaction of the freedom loving , god fearing, sheep
would be. Let's face it if there is no reaction to this, then why stop
it.

Most of the people in the US don't care about Iraqis, and all they want is revenge, and if that revenge can be taken on a group of brown
skinned people who worship a false god, or don't agree with what's
going on, so what!

These are Einsatzcommandos in training, they will do what ever it takes to do the job. In other words the ends justify the means. I
think this was also one of Hitler's beliefs.

As matter of fact I bet you won't see this on CNN, or the FAUX News Channel.

Picking on women and children.

I'm glad my Marine father (WWII and Korea) isn't around to see this shit. He'd be throwing up in anger right about now. I know I am!!!

:grr::nuke::mad::puke:
:grr::nuke::mad::puke:
:grr::nuke::mad::puke:

As Occupation Is Terrorism.