Board advocates dumping UND nickname, logo (Fighting Sioux)

Source: Associated Press

Board advocates dumping UND nickname, logo

By DALE WETZEL – 3 hours ago

DICKINSON, N.D. (AP) — North Dakota's Board of Higher Education has agreed to drop the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname and Indian head logo, a move intended to resolve a decades-long campus dispute about whether the name demeans American Indians.

The name and logo, which is a profile of an American Indian man with feathers and streaks of paint on his face, could still be saved if North Dakota's Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux tribes agree by Oct. 1 to give the university permission to use them for at least 30 years.

However, tribal officials say that possibility is remote. Unless the name and logo receive tribal endorsement, they will be retired for good on Aug. 1, 2010.

The board, which met Thursday at Dickinson State University, voted 8-0 to retire the logo and nickname. UND President Robert Kelley began making plans for replacements.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jXUzdaQnfm7_rfPANUB4MfIBpSLQD986A5F80

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The University of North Dakota and the University of Illinois were the two most vociferous holdouts when the NCAA started moving against such mascots and nicknames a few years ago. The U of I finally dropped their Chief Illiniwek a little over two years ago, leaving the UND Fighting Sioux as the only Division I school that was using a Native American mascot without the consent of the tribe in question.

Nothing we could do now can make up for what we did to The Native American.

However, now we can show them due respect for their proud heritage.

This is "a good thing" for the beautiful State Of North Dakota to be doing. :patriot:

Now, IF ONLY the damn Washington D.C. , NFL team could muster up equal maturity and respect?

Won't happen - but we can dream? :shrug:

I never like these moves. What the tribes need is exposure and mascots and nicknames give it to them. As long as its not openly mocking them, I have little concern with it. I just the removal of all things Native American as another way of pushing the tribes into a dark corner to be forever forgotten. I'm still waiting for Obama's Interior Dept to approve my tribes casino after Bushler's incompetent opposition to it.

they didn't think it appropriate to use Native Americans as mascots - especially in states like North & South Dakota where the bigotry against Indians rivaled anything ever seen in Mississippi or Alabama.

The other thing with UND is that some old racist alumni left the school a ton of money provided they not give into demands and rename the teams. The school should have said "thanks, but no thanks" (to coin a phrase :evilgrin:)


And, before anyone brings up Notre Dame, it adopted "Fighting Irish" as its name when most the staff and student body were Irish. UND was using this name back when they could have gotten by not admitting any Sioux to the school.

but I come from a very poor tribe with little exposure. I disagree with this particular tribes move. If it was me, I'd push to keep the name and the mascot, but get a percentage of all memorabilia associated with them and use those funds to sustain the tribe.

tribe getting some royalties from the use of the name...That seems like a great compromise (though I'd best add the disclaimer that I'm of Irish descent so maybe I should be keeping my mouth shut about this).

This controversy about UND raises its head every so often but, again, this sounds like a good move. Some of the bands in Minnesota have done very well with casinos, but I'm not so sure the ones in North Dakota are doing so well with them, your idea might be very helpful.

I can understand being upset about nicknames like "Indians" or "Redskins", but not actual tribe names. Seminoles, Illini, Sioux are proud names with lots of heritage. What's the problem?

It may be a proud name with a proud heritage, but I would think that the tribe should have some say in how their name is used (and, indeed, this mentioned that they would).

and if they do we have to accept it even if some don't understand why.

As for the tribe names, most of the names used were assigned to the tribes by white invaders because they were to arrogant to try to understand the names these cultures used for themselves.

What is wrong with those...?

to the name, and has been for years. What more problem need there be?

In the case of the Florida State Seminoles (and the Utah Utes), the tribes themselves have sanctioned the nicknames. As for the Illini, the name refers not (at least according to the university's official position) to the Native American tribe, but rather is a nickname referring to the people of Illinois.

In the fact my wife is part Norwegian heritage and part Prairie Island Indian. She has no problem with any of the names and wishes that when an Indian name is discontinued a name like Nordics, Vikings or Celts is used in its place. Seriously.

are the Irish offended by Notre Dame's mascot or Boston's NBA team? Are the Norwegians offended by Minnesota's NFL team? Are the Turks upset at USC? are the Greeks upset at Michigan State? Are the Cajuns upset at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette? Are the Quakers mad at the University of Pennslyvania? Are Nebraskan corn farmers upset at their University's nickname? Are cow-herders in Texas upset at the Dallas Cowboys? Maybe the natives of Central Europe are upset the Idaho Vandals used their ethnic background as a mascot????

Mascots are not chosen for their negative stereotypes, which all of the above mentioned groups also have.

of the Fighting Micks. Maybe the fighting coonasses instead of the Cajuns. How about the plow jockies instead of corn huskers. Maybe Bohunks instead of Vandals. No problem with Seminoles or Illini but do have some heartburn with Redskins.

Yes.

Was land stolen from the Norwegians, and were they slaughtered because white men wanted to live where they did?

Were Nebraska corn farmers given smallpox-soaked blankets in a mass genocide attempt?

Were cow-herders in Texas disparaged as 'savages' and herded onto reservations?

Did Quakers have treaties they signed with the US broken time after time after time?

An entire people who have been repressed, victimized, and slaughtered can be offended when their names are used as a nickname for a frickin' sports team.

Geez, get a clue.

because bad things happened to an ethnic group and they were victimized, we can't honor them with a nickname? Have you ever studied Irish history? You don't think the Irish were repressed and vicitimzed? The Vandals were suppressed by the Romans and made to be slaves. So were the Teutons, Greeks, Trojans (Turks) and the Britons. The Quakers left England because of religious persecution.

Bad things have happened to almost every ethnic group at some point in history. Does that mean we should preclude every group from being used as a nickname?

Yes, I've studied history. The US has a particularly bad reputation when it comes to repressing and slaughtering indigenous people. So when US sports teams take their names from American Indians, it isn't an honor. Especially names like Redskin, Braves, etc.

Grow up.

Perfect reply. I couldn't have said better myself.

Some people just don't seem to get it and bring up the false analogies of the Vikings or Fighting Irish.

It's all about a minority group's relative position in society.

If the Sioux find the use of their name by the university as offensive, so be it. Tough shit for the university.

I will guarantee you that those names would get changed - and it would happend so fast it would make you dizzy.

Several years ago the state Lottery was running an ad where the speaker used a fractured and stereotypical Scandinavian accent. Most of us thought it was funny but both the Sons of Norway and the Swedish Institute complained and that ad was yanked off the air.

One more time, Notre Dame's teams were named by a staff and student body that were largely Irish at the time. The same is pretty much true of the Vikings. Scandinavians in Minnesota are not a minority group that has been battered by the larger society for centuries - they are the larger society. The Vikings would not be the Vikings if there was a lot of objections to the name.

but what I can't stand is who pushed this in the first place: the NCAA($). As it is, I can't stand the NCAA as an organization and what they supposedly stand for. And here, their hypocrisy shines through. The schools they usually really get on are those that are small and don't bring in large flows of cash for them, while others escape their wrath for some reason or another ($$$).

I find it hilarious that this is deemed by the NCAA to be their responsibility, meanwhile the graduating rates for NCAA athletes in certain sports and at certain schools ($$$$$$$$) is atrocious. The use of cash to buy up players is widespread, steroids use is never mentioned in college athletics, and the way college players are used like so much chattle to bring in the big bucks for public institutions that are funded by tax payer money is disgusting (and for the NC$$).

I just don't think the NCAA are in any position to comment on this (or any other) moral arguments in our society.

Let's see, there are still the Cleveland Indians, the Cincinnati Reds, the Washington Redskins, but that's ok, those are the big boy leagues (snicker) and they are thereby untouchable. And of course, the NC$$ is the feeder system for these honorable noble causes known as the NFL, NBA, MLB etc. The NC$$ is a joke. And for some reason, I have always had the suspicion that those who keep backing the BCS system of college football are all hardcore right-winger good ol boys, considering it is a system that discriminates against those schools with the least money and promotes unfair backroom bullying and deals for those with "tradition", it just seems it would be right up their alley!

:rant:

Red Stockings. But don't forget the Atlanta Braves!! Man, I hate that team...

Haha, well then I stand corrected! Sorry Reds, I just figured it was for Redskins (since there is already a Red Sox)! And I'm doubly ashamed since I actually live in Cincinnati (though I am a transplant)!

Once again, sorry Cincinnati! And yes, shame, shame on the Atlanta Braves! ;-)

The Red Stockings were actually the country's first all-professional baseball team.

Another bit of trivia - in the 1950's or so, they briefly, but officially, changed their name to the "Redlegs" I think it was, because of the connotation of being called a "Red" was equal to being a communist.

They would move their headquarters out of INDIANapolis, INDIANa.

to an Indian restaurant in Indianapolis, Indiana, just because.

I bet they have the best names. :)

This has been going on for a few decades, it almost happened a few years ago before Ralph Engelstad made his demand to keep it when he built the new hockey arena. There have been so many racist things that have happened both in the UND/Grand Forks and the NDSU/Fargo community and greater North Dakota it is pretty disgusting.

It took a move to D-I to try to join the Summit League so UND could keep up with NDSU (who made the NCAA Men's Backetball tournament this year) to do it.


http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/0/2/9/0/pages102909/p102909-1.php

Edit:

Also http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/history.html

http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/

Including a huge inlay in the floor by the main entry so that fans coming in and going out literally walk all over the warriors face and feathers. :puke:

And if I'm not mistaken, that floor inlay is right in front of a statue of Engelstad, so he gets to stand guard over that bit of desecration.

FSU will be the only major college with an indian name.

People are rushing out and buying the Fighting Sioux logo T-shirts etc., may be a collector's item later.