Air France had bomb threat days before crash: Airline

Source: India Times

PARIS: Air France said on Wednesday it received a bomb threat about a flight from Buenos Aires to Paris just days before one of its planes crashed into the Atlantic with 228 people on board.

Argentine police received an anonymous telephone warning on May 27 and searched the plane before passengers boarded but found nothing and it was allowed to take off with a delay of 32 minutes, a spokesman said.

There appeared to be no link between the alert and the crash Monday of the Air France flight between Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and Paris, he said.

More debris from the Air France jet that came down in the Atlantic was spotted early Wednesday, but investigators said they were pessimistic about finding the black boxes that could explain the tragedy.

Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Air-France-had-bomb-threat-days-before-crash-Airline/articleshow/4613852.cms

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http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L3346473.htm

<snip>

BOMB ALERT IN ARGENTINA

Authorities are baffled by how a modern plane could have plunged out of the sky without giving its team of three experienced pilots time to send a mayday call.

Air France and government ministers have said bad weather and turbulence were probably behind the disaster, but have refused to rule out other causes, including terrorism.

Air France confirmed on Wednesday that it had received an anonymous phone call warning that a bomb was on a flight leaving Buenos Aires on May 27, four days before the Rio crash.

A spokesman said the plane was checked, no bomb was found and the aircraft left an hour and a half late. He added that such alerts were relatively common.

Brazilian Air Force spokesman Colonel Jorge Amaral said on Wednesday that the newly spotted debris included "various objects" spread across a 5-km area, one metallic object 7-metres in diameter and a 20-km oil slick.

An aviation expert said the large distance between the wreckage zones might be an indication the plane broke up in the sky well before it hit the water.

such violent weather that they couldn't send out some sort of radio signal, changed course, or done something to avert weather.

This DOES reopen the question about a bomb on board to me. Seems more likely it blew up and went down in just a few seconds and thus no alerts or anything... but I don't know if they have radio communication when they are out there so far, 400 miles from shore.

"In addition, the storms were towering up to 50,000 feet and would have been producing lightning," the service said on its Web site. "The Air France plane would have encountered these stormy conditions, which could have resulted in either some structural failure or electrical failure as noted in the communications between the airplane and Air France headquarters."

It added: "Based on satellite information, the Air France flight had little chance of going around the storms given that they stretched for over 400 miles and were developing along the flight path. The airplane was flying at cruising altitude of 35,000 feet. With the updrafts pushing the storms up to 50,000 feet, the plane had to fly through the storms and not over them."

However, it said that lightning strikes were not detected in the storms northeast of Fernando De Noronha and along the Intertropical Convergence Zone at the time of the flight.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/03/AR2009060302246_2.html?sid=ST2009060101869

The World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) says that two Lufthansa jets – heading from South America to Europe – flew through the same area where the thunderstorms were reported, about half an hour before the AF447.

The two aircraft collected wind and temperature information during their flight as part of a WMO program.

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/06/02/was-air-france-flight-brought-down-by-turbulence-or-hail/

Vasquez also makes note of another possible cause: The jet engines were shutdown by rain or hail.

A dual engine flameout due to precipitation or ice ingestion is a noteworthy possibility as has been discussed on other sites (specific to the A330 type too). The precipitable water content in any tropical weather system can run very high.

Vasquez plots the likely flight path of Air France 447 and overlays it on satellite imagery and weather reports in the area at the time:

It appears AF447 crossed through three key thunderstorm clusters: a small one around 0151Z, a new rapidly growing one at about 0159Z, and finally a large multicell convective system (MCS) around 0205-0216Z. Temperature trends suggested that the entire system was at peak intensity …

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/06/02/was-air-france-flight-brought-down-by-turbulence-or-hail/

Complex systems can also be subject to drastic failures. And a lightning strike in the right spot can be as quick and fatal as a bomb. Similarly one can ask, why no mayday call from a bombed plane as it goes down?

are necessarily still alive and sitting in the cockpit intact as the plane descends in one piece. Depends on how powerful the explosion was --if there was one..

Whatever happened caused an immediate cessation of radio communication, so the many possibilities include an event that killed the crew in the cockpit, cut off the power, or destroyed the plane instantly.

"Bound from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on Sunday night, Flight AF 447 vanished from the radar, and no mayday distress calls were received from the pilots, leaving the disappearance of the aircraft a mystery. However, the aircraft sent of a series of automated technical messages pointing to several failures."

http://www.france24.com/en/20090603-france-brazil-airbus-447-lead-investigation-cause-crash-accident-inquiry

There were apparently voice communications from the crew about encountering turbulence, followed by the automated signals indicating electrical and pressurization failures.

...because it took four minutes from the first incident (autopilot disengage) to a report of "cabin vertical speed" (dive). Had a bomb destroyed the plane, that last message would have come in almost immediately, not four minutes later.

Otherwise, why would they bother?

Pan Am 103. Depending on the motives of the bomber(s), a claim may or may not be made, or possibly may be made discreetly.

What motive?

Maybe someone can explain that one.

Obviously if they did it was because of trouble with the plane and/or weather before they began to break apart.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:rogFhX-NRfYJ:momento24.com/en/2009/05/27/bomb-threat-on-air-france-flight/+Ezeiza+air+france+bomb+threat&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera

For some reason they didn't want anyone to know about the previous threat?

.
.
.

Something to ponder . .

:freak:

...a few days before the crash - interesting.


Tue May 26, 2009 7:22pm IST

SAO PAULO (Reuters) - Brazil's federal police have arrested a high-ranking al Qaeda operative in Sao Paulo and are keeping him under tight security, a local newspaper reported on Tuesday.

The suspect is allegedly a chief of international communications for al Qaeda, according to the report in Folha de S.Paulo, Brazil's largest daily newspaper.The report did not give the suspect's name or say when he was taken into custody, nor did it provide a source for the information.

The arrest was surrounded by secrecy with the federal police disguising it as part of an investigation into neo-Nazi groups in the country, Folha said. The report also said U.S. authorities were notified of the arrest.

A federal police spokesman in Sao Paulo declined to comment, as did a spokeswoman at the Justice Ministry in Brasilia, the capital.


http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-39893620090526

has to remain in back of my mind. Remember in Bojinka they did a test flight that killed a Japanese business man on a flight in Phillipines. Only the slight difference in seating kept the bomb from being more lethal and taking out the center fuel tank. Instead it took out some of the flooring and blew a hole in the fuselage, the crew managed to safely land the plane.

If it was a Bojinka type plot this very well could've been a test run, hence the silence from any terrorist group responsible.

If a bomb set off by a suicide bomber the heavy turbulence and over ocean explosion would be a great cover to keep investigators guessing.

Gotta find those "black boxes".


Brazilian navy vessels and a French ship carrying two mini-submarines were on their way to the zone.

The submarines are capable of operating at depths of 6,000 metres, which is also the limit aircraft black boxes can survive. The zone's average depth is estimated between 4,000 and 5,000 metres but has crevasses up to 8,000 metres deep, according to Brazilian and French oceanographic experts.

Jobim said the debris was scattered over a five-kilometre area, "confirming that the plane fell at this spot."

He said three merchant vessels were in the debris zone and the first of several Brazilian navy vessels would arrive early today. "They will start the work to recover these items that were spotted" early Tuesday by Brazilian air force planes.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Brazilian+military+finds+debris+from+France+crash+Atlantic/1657992/story.html

I thought about that innocent cover trial run myself but, yes, a bit tin foil layered to suppose they were smart enough to think it out to that degree before deploying their 'smart bomb' plans into action.

I would suspect Airbus remain singled out as the target of choice but
for reasons that are a bit over garnished with the tin foil at this time. ;)

And the following day a threat was phoned in about an Air France flight out of Buenos Aires. Perhaps to divert attention from Sao Paul or Rio?

It was when I flew out of Brazil 11 years ago.

Or else it is one helluva coincidence. Unless it's so routine to get such threats phoned in everyday?

:kick:

BRASILIA, June 3 (Reuters) - The presence of fuel stains in the ocean could rule out the possibility there was an explosion on the Air France flight that crashed into the Atlantic, Brazil's Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said on Wednesday.

"The presence of oil slicks could eventually rule out the possibility of a fire, an explosion," Jobim said during a news conference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0339487620090603

I don't understand how the 'authorities' are so quick to eliminate terrorism as a potential cause of this accident. It would seem to me that until the wreckage is carefully examined for the telltale signs of a bomb initiated explosion and until the likely cause of the destruction of the airplane is determined that terrorism can't be ruled out.

Not that I'm not saying that this accident was caused by a terrorist act, only that the 'authorities' seem to have crossed it off the list of potential causes before the slightest bit of analysis has been done.

Curious.

According to the report in Brazil's Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper, citing an unidentified Air France source, the doomed airliner's pilot first sent a message that he was entering thick black clouds of a type normally associated with violent winds and lightening.

Ten minutes later a series of electronic messages were sent from the plane indicating that the autopilot had disengaged and that a computer on board had switched to an alternative power system.

The controls needed to keep the aircraft stable had also been damaged, the newspaper report says, and an alarm sounded, suggesting the situation was becoming increasingly grave.

This cascade of messages ended with one pointing to a loss of air pressure and electrical failure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8082241.stm

were attempted ?
I remember similar stories where people had time to scribble a few words on napkins with lipstick,for example, as they made their peace before plunging to their death. If it was an issue, perhaps a few cell phone calls would have been attempted even though many would have been out of range. Maybe not for sattelite cell phones
But anyway,
it certainly could be that it was an extremely violent storm and the pilot calmly convinced the passenger it would be only a few more minutes til they climbed over the storm so don't worry about the periods of roller coaster weightlessness.

They could try - but...

I know we try and imagine ourselves in such a horrific situation, but really, there's not much you can do.

the ocean also. total power loss would have prevented airline provided services of course.


Missing Air France jet sent 24 error messages
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.44754fcd0712b22a90f25bf4e985fd8d.221&show_article=1

An Air France pilot has suggested that a bomb could have been the cause of the crash which led to a plane go missing over the Atlantic this week. However most experts have dismissed the suggestion.

One anonymous Air France pilot suggested that a bomb could "very well" be the cause of the crash. He said: "One can very well imagine that a bomb caused the aircraft's depressurisation and that the plane took time to break up. It could just as well have been a big bomb that blew up the entire plane, which would explain why the aircraft didn't have time to send an alert signal."

Unnamed experts quoted by the Le Monde newspaper said the "wide dispersion of wreckage discovered suggests that the Airbus (A330-200) exploded at high altitude".

However the involvement of a bomb has been dismissed by most and remains extremely unlikely.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5442896/Air-France-plane-was-it-a-bomb.html

The suggestion that the pilot gradually lost control of the plane appears to counter reports that the plane exploded in mid-air.

These were lent more weight today after a Spanish pilot in the vicinity at the time reported seeing an "intense white flash".

"Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, followed by a downward, vertical trajectory which broke up into six segments," the chief pilot of an Air Comet plane from Lima to Madrid told the Spanish newspaper, El Mundo. He has reported his observations to investigators.

Some experts have supported the theory that the plane exploded, given the wide area where debris has been found.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5444168/Air-France-pilots-battled-for-15-minutes-to-save-doomed-flight-AF-447.html

"Unnamed experts" - that's me!

Missing Air France jet sent 24 error messages
The Air France jet that crashed into the Atlantic sent out 24 automatic error messages in its final moments as its systems -- including the autopilot -- shut down, investigators said Saturday.
The director of the French air accident investigation agency, Paul-Louis Arslanian, said that it was impossible to tell from the signals whether the doomed crew had shut off the autopilot or whether it cut out.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.44754fcd0712b22a90f25bf4e985fd8d.221&show_article=1

excert of the ongoing investigation from earlier post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3905747&mesg_id=3907627

But for the tin foil conspiracy, a little something to chew on;

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/05/france.plane.investigation/
Time to look at the maint logs and see how many hands and who had access to the avionics......just routine.