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Old Coot Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:26 PM
Original message
Life, health insurers invest big in tobacco
Source: AFP

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Major US, Canadian and British life and health insurance companies have billions of dollars invested in tobacco companies, a study published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine said.

Wesley Boyd, the study's lead author, found that at least 4.4 billion dollars in insurance company funds are invested in companies whose affiliates produce cigarettes, cigars and chewing tobacco.

"Despite calls upon the insurance industry to get out of the tobacco business by physicians and others, insurers continue to put their profits above people's health," said Boyd, a faculty member of Harvard Medical School.

"It's clear their top priority is making money, not safeguarding people's well-being," he wrote.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090604/bs_afp/ushealthcancertobaccocanadabritain_20090604003656
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. We have no political leadership willing to tackle the industrial/medical complex on behalf of honest
Americans. how sad is that?

Msongs
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, that seems kinda weird.
Wouldn't you think these insurance companies would want people to live long, healthy lives? More premium payments, less claims. What am I missing here?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. A study out of the Netherlands last year indicated that smokers
and obese people cost healthcare systems less because they die younger. The highest medical costs are end of life expenses and everyone (except for those who drop dead unexpectedly) has those regardless of how healthy their life style has been. Meanwhile, in addition to end of life, the healthy ones have all those extra years of routine medical costs.

Though you're right about the life insurance companies, you'd think it would be in their interests to encourage people to live longer.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Makes sense.
I guess it's just a win-win for them, then.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Soooo let me get this straight....
Step 1: MAKE money from Joe Smoker, by investing in the company that Joe Smoker pays.
Step 2: SAVE money from Joe Smoker, by refusing to insure him (won't insure smokers, preexisting condition, etc.)
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!


Summary: Joe Smoker is PAYING insurance companies to NOT insure him!

Those slick, evil motherfuckers.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ah, I see.
Edited on Wed Jun-03-09 08:39 PM by parasim
I think you answered my question (above).


on edit: The reason I asked the question in the first place, was because I'm a smoker (soon to be ex, I am determined this time) and I have health insurance. But then I realized that they've upped my premiums because I am a smoker. Still another way for them to profit more. Bastards!
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Check with your doctor about using Chantix to quit
worked like magic for me.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well, my doc prescribed chantix...
but I haven't filled it yet. I really don't want to do another drug to get rid of my addiction to this one.

However, I do appreciate your tip and knowing that it worked for you makes me a bit more hopeful about it. For right now, I'm attempting to do it without another drug.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Remember, if you use Chantix, you don't take it forever.
My doctor told me to take it 5-10 days before I quit and I will confess I took it for almost a month before I did. By the time I quit I was going through maybe half a pack and not finishing the ones I started. One morning I got up and decided I might as well quit that day and I did (it will be 2 years in September) and I haven't been tempted very often and, when I have been, it's more because I miss the habit, not the nicotine. Fortunately these feeling pass quickly.

Another thing I did that you're not suppose to is kept cigarettes in the house (in fact I still have them, I can't imagine how stale they must be) but knowing it was my choice not to smoke them kept me from panicking about not having any at hand.

Chantix does have some side effects (the only one I had was really awful nausea) so go for it cold turkey. You can always try the drug later if you have to.

Good luck!
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thanks for the encouragement.
and congrats on 2 years! and hey, if it works, it works... who cares if you follow the directions to the T.

It's the side effects that I'm mainly not keen on and also just the idea of using one drug to get rid of another. But you're right, if it doesn't work, I can always still try the drug route.

I am going to try to go cold turkey. In fact, I did three days ago. But I failed the next day. However, I have cut down my nicotine ingestion to a sixth of what it was as I prepare to go for it again. You mention keeping cigarettes around... 3 days ago when I "stopped" I left the last cigarette on my desk, standing on end. Thinking that if I see it there and don't give in to grab it and smoke it, then I've conquered my addiction. Well, the next day, I gave in and went and bought a pack. Funy thing, "my last cigarette" is still standing there... now mocking me. : )

I am going to quit. and your encouragement will be amongst the various things that will help me do so. thanks!

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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I Highly recommend hypnosis with a tape of the session to support you.
make sure you get instructions to smoke your last cig before
you come in,
really be committed to wanting to quit so the subconscious
mind won't be conflicted with the conscious mind,
and leave you cigs there, and take home a tape to replay if
you get the urge.

You may, you may not.  You might want to listen to it
repeatedly anyway to reinforce the work on the subconscious
mind.

be careful not to use food as a substitute.  It would be good
to have someone include that directive in your hypnosis
session, to only eat until you are full for nourishment, not
comfort. 

good luck.

look up isabelle gilbert's work.  She is deceased now, but she
had a great many following.  She helped me. And she put out a
book and a tape so if you can get an initial session
somewhere, you might use her work to support you.

Do it.  It makes you smell like an ashtray, your clothes reek,
it causes macrophage attacks in your throat and harms the
tissues, and doesn't do your lungs any good either.  Not to
mention second hand smoke.  And the public ostracizing, ugh. 
Its sick. 

yea.... good luck, 
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. thanks!
Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions. I knew somebody a long time ago that successfully quit smoking through hypnosis. I have often considered it and it is another method on my list if my current idea of going cold turkey doesn't work. (it hasn't worked very well so far)

As for the food part, I'm a pretty skinny guy, so eating too much is not as much a worry as long as I stay with healthy food, of course. Never been much of an eater anyway, but I have noticed even with my drastic cut-down in the last few days how much hungrier I am. So I will watch for that.

I actually tried acupuncture a couple of years ago, and I felt it was helping, but I guess I was just not ready to quit then, because I gave up on it. Well, I am committed now, so your suggestion is duly noted. thanks!
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zeos3 Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Hey, slow down...
They are not THAT evil. :sarcasm:

They will gladly insure Joe Smoker for an extra 25% or more for health insurance companies (and double or more premium for life insurers)

They'll only refuse Joe Smoker coverage if he develops a chronic condition from the smoking (which he surely will). Or Joe Smoker has the "choice" of paying higher and higher health premiums every year once he gets to the point that no other company will insure him.


See...it's not THAT evil...:sarcasm: PLUS, I used the word "choice" to make it seem like there are options.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. problem-reaction-"solution"? anyone?
And coincidentally Bayer makers of drugs like aspirin also make pesticides that coincidentally can affect the heart.
http://www.healthy-communications.com/rightoknowsidebar.html
Commercials saying,Bayer aspirin saved my life ads look really sick when you realize they sell the very pesticides and toxic shit that very well may contribute to the heart problems in people that dread crabgrass and dandelions in their golf course boring lawns..And it gets WORSE.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d7_1182492879&p=1

FYI Look on some bottles of household cleaners,you will see what it can do to you,but the actual chemicals in said cleaners are nowhere to be found.Chemical companies do not have to LIST the ingredients to the products.
http://www.womenandenvironment.org/campaignsandprograms/SafeCleaning/Responses/disclosure

Industries seemingly separated,but not really,will make stuff to sell that makes people sick,( then they'll sell you something to fix-it) and when that fails to work, the cure more often just some relief you must buy and buy again, until it kills or bankrupts you and hello debt slavery to master card.
These corporations thrive on our ignorance of their cozy interconnected backroom "relationships".
Relationships profitable to them, but are slowly killing us,and the planet.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Did you hear that Bayer made the poison gas for the concentration camps in Germany?
Edited on Wed Jun-03-09 10:23 PM by earcandle
my husband told me. .... I have not confirmed, but will now
that I have spread some hearsay. (whoops) 

Can someone make me wrong?  
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Oh my!
   1.
      Bayer Knowingly Sold HIV-Contaminated Vaccines, Say
Internal ...
      Jan 5, 2009 ... Sure they did. Don't forget that Bayer
is the same ... experiments on those held in the concentration
camps and manufactured the poison gas used to kill thousands.
... Anybody who takes anything made by Bayer is, in my
opinion, ... Electrosmog Detector Lets You "Hear"
Electromagnetic Pollution from ...
      www.naturalnews.com/News_000647_Bayer_vaccines_HIV.html
- 27k - Cached - Similar pages
   2.
      bayer's aventis cropscience - public enemy no. 1 in the
UK
      That is what has made it UK public enemy number 1 and so
it will remain under ... And then there's the poisoned
Peruvian kids and the nerve gas. ... Protesters disrupt Bayer
shareholders meeting. COLOGNE, Germany, April 26 .... If you
did not want it to occur you would abide by the rules and
regulations and ensure ...
      ngin.tripod.com/agrevodiary.htm - 56k - Cached - Similar
pages
   3.
      Germany's Forbidden Words | Real Zionist News
      I suspect that he has personally made millions from the
zionist ..... But you don't hear too much about the American
and British camps that they set up along ..... Q. What did you
do when they told you that I.G. chemicals was [sic] being ....
especially Jews, were killed with poison gas in these
concentration camps ...
      www.realjewnews.com/?p=245 - 191k - Cached - Similar
pages
   4.
      Holocaust
      Jan 26, 2000 ... Then on September 1, 1939, Germany
invaded Poland. ... The plan was this: concentration camps,
like the ones that ... Death by poison gas would be the
answer. But with what? .... some of them from whom you buy
things: Bayer (pharmaceuticals), ... How did these big
businesses escape punishment? ...
      www.datasync.com/~davidg59/genocide.html - 36k - Cached
- Similar pages
   5.
      Juniper Ridge Info: Suterra Progress Pics
      Bruce made the assertion today, but has HE ever put 2
& 2 Together ever? .... Ominious Parallels Between Nazi
Poison Gas and Calif Pesticide Spraying ... Zyklon B was used
in the concentration camps initially for delousing to control
... work in Bayer where he served as Chairman for more than 10
years, until 1961. ...
     
juniper-ridge-info.blogspot.com/2008/11/suterra-progress-pics.html
- 120k - Cached - Similar pages
   6.
      Should this company be held accountable for murder?
      34 posts - 29 authors - Last post: Feb 14
      and the hospitals did not even try to test many people
my two kids were .... It is during Nazi-era Germany and WW2
that IG Farben (Bayer) ... held in the concentration camps and
manufactured the poison gas ... Thank you for sharing. .... I
am waiting to hear/read more (from the Health Inspections),
...
     
www.sodahead.com/question/257771/should-this-company-be-held-accountable-for-murder/
- 166k - Cached - Similar pages
   7.
      Sativex the Aspirin of the 21st century - Cannabis
Culture Forums
      3 posts - 1 author - Last post: May 28, 2003
      Germany's Bayer AG BAYG.DE acquired rights to its first
product. ..... CODEX "free trade" Vitamin Scam is
scary, you should hear about CIPRO! ... (181-184) Bayer is
also still in the poison gas business. ..... What did Farben
regard as "stability"? ... and the concentration
camp made its appearance. ...
     
forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=517560
- 100k - Cached - Similar pages
   8.
      Bayer Infected Thousands with AIDS - SciForums.com
      19 posts - 9 authors - Last post: Mar 16, 2008
      Bayer, which is based in Germany, said in its statement
that an overall plasma ... Bayer also said Cutter did fully
inform foreign customers about the heated product. ... only
German company to operate its own concentration camp[citation
needed]. ... Mustard gas — a blister-causing chemical weapon
...
      www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=69461 - 115k - Cached
- Similar pages
   9.
      On The Road to Armageddon - The Dove - Summer 1994
      CONCENTRATION CAMPS WERE NOT INVENTED IN GERMANY ...
When you buy products made in China, much of it is produced by
slaves, who suffer greatly. ... Up to this time in history,
mustard gas had been the most deadly gas developed ..... What
the American people did not know at this time was that
Roosevelt had agreed to ...
      www.eaec.org/dove/ontheroad.htm - 92k - Cached - Similar
pages
  10.
      How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power -
Democratic ...
      56 posts - 41 authors - Last post: May 16, 2008
      Do yourself a favor and don't beleive everything you
hear. .... IG Farben/Bayer even commissioned Dr. Josef
Mengele's famed horrid ... There were up to seven gas chambers
using Zyklon-B poison gas and three crematoria. .... at the
concentration camps, but they did not know about the gas
chambers or ...
     
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3288146
- 227k - Cached - Similar pages


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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. So where is State Farm - on or off a list of investors in tobacco?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Big insurance joins the more traditional Merchants of Death.
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