Great-grandma dared cop to Tase her, so he did

Source: MSNBC/Today

First there was the college student who gave the language the immortal phrase “Don’t Tase me, bro!” before being zapped by police. Now, there’s the 72-year-old great-grandmother who told a cop, “Go ahead. Tase me” — and got what she asked for.

Kathryn Winkfein was stopped for doing 60 mph in a 45 zone in her pickup truck on a highway near Austin, Texas. After Deputy Chris Bieze finished writing the ticket, he gave it to her and asked her to sign it.

Winkfein refused. Bieze insisted, saying he would have to arrest her if she didn’t sign the ticket. When she wouldn’t sign, he opened the door to the truck and told her to get out.

Differing accounts
This all happened around 2 p.m. on May 11. But it didn’t become news until Winkfein told a local television station that she had been mistreated. The Travis County Constable’s Office alleged that she had been argumentative and profane. She denied the charge, telling a local Fox News reporter, “I was not argumentative. I was not combative. Every bit of this is a lie.”

Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/

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The article goes on to say that the constable's office released the dashboard video showing the confrontation.

someone was on msnbc trying to justify the tasing, saying that the old woman 'lunged' but that is just ridiculous. how about you let the old ass angry woman go home, and then deal with her later. its not like he was defending the public or anything, just saving his ass from extra work.

I've had whole herds of kids lunge at me. I'd pick them up and toss them on the grass. We called it fun.

I don't do that anymore, people go "tsk, tsk".

To begin with, she was only ticketed, not convicted. Who knows why Baby Huey pulled her over? I'm sorry you lost your friend but the woman still has the presumption of innocence.

Signing the ticket does not admit guilt. It's a promise to appear in court. If you refuse, they will arrest you, every time.

Watch the dashboard video from the cop car. I was expecting something awful here, but actually, I think the Officer did everything he was supposed to, and I believe his department is already on record, defending his actions.

I did not say anything about signing the ticket admitting guilt.

You did not see the message I was answering, basically that the woman was a menace on the road by speeding. I said that she has the presumption of innocence.

The person you were responding to redacted their own post, which robbed me of the context of your post.

I apologize for misinterpreting.

:toast:

..You might just get it...

When she said that she wasn't combative in her interview, she was lying. Profane? I kinda don't think so.

The cop was, however, an over-officious jerk. This woman doesn't come up to his armpit. She even ASKED for the ticket so she could SIGN IT after he got her out of her truck. He refused to let her sign it. He had already decided that he was going to teach her "who's boss in these here parts" (my words, not his) and that he was going to take her to jail for gettin' all up in his face. You can see this plainly in the dashcam video. He allowed the entire incident to go WAAAAY beyond where it should have ended.

There was no genuine need for this guy to use a taser on a woman that small and old. If he'd called for backup to help him with a little old lady, they'd have laughed him off the force. Instead, he hit her with the taser - which is even worse. Watch the dashcam video of this. While she was certainly no peach, she did ask to sign the ticket, was refused, and then tasered by a cop with more than a foot of height and at least 80 lbs. on her - not to mention the training and equipment advantage.

Tasering a rambunctious little old lady - what a shameful act by a law enforcement "professional".

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

if he'd manhandled her, taken her to the ground or thrown across the hood of his car to apply handcuffs?

Don't fail the attitude test. It's never a good idea. Sign the ticket, it's not admitting guilt, it's a promise to appear in court to answer the charge. That's all. Refuse, and you're going to jail. Once you've refused, I know of no officer that will allow, or is in any way required to offer a second chance.

If I say, "fuck you," to you, and you strike me, one of us goes to jail, and it isn't me.

A badge should not change that.

Refusing to sign the ticket is not a legal right. Well, it's a right I guess, but it's going to land you in jail, until your traffic infraction can be heard before a Judge.

My understanding of the law here in PA is that while signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt, you have the LEGAL option of refusing to sign it. It is only an acknowledgment of receipt of the ticket. I see no reason why refusing to sign a TRAFFIC TICKET is a jailable offense. So you don't sign it. So what? What's the big deal? The cop has you on dashcam audio and video anyway. And even if it isn't working, so fuckin' WHAT?

"Sign this paper or I'll incarcerate you!" is too Big Brother-ish for me.

Either way, tasering a little old lady is an appalling act. He should resign in shame.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

...It's "sign this ticket so I don't have to incarcerate you."

The officer has observed you breaking the law. The process continues with an arrest, and incarceration (or bail) until a judge/jury finds you guilty or not guilty.

It was decided that speeding did not automatically rise to the level of incarceration; signing the ticket is a sign of good faith that the accused will appear in court. :shrug:

OT: I agree, tasering the woman was uncalled for.

that I add tasing anyone is misuse of power unless they are threatening you with physical violence. But then I have to add-he is lucky she didn't get physical-little old Texas grannies can kick you ass til the cows come home and still get around to offering you some iced tea afterward.

Just like guns, tasers have physical consequences. Now how would anyone feel knowing that they killed some little old lady.

merely rude words.

I'm guessing she could have taken him in a fair fight.

We should be happy the coward didn't use his gun.

i've told cops they were completely full of shit for racially-profiling me. they didn't like it, but they didn't taser me. police have limits to what they can do. if he had manhandled her and cuffed her, he'd have a problem on his hands.

You do not have the right to refuse to sign a ticket. It's a deferrment. Allows you to pay the fine, or arrange for mitigation, or to challenge it at a more convienient time. It's a promise to appear in court, and if you refuse, they'll put you in jail until the case can be heard.

Saying 'fuck you pig' and the like, while inadvisable, is legal, sure.

the one who had good sense because he knew what he was doing was wrong. if i continue to acquiesce to police abuse, how can i complain about it? i am a middle-aged woman, so i can probably get away with more than a young, black man.
refusing to sign a ticket doesn't warrant the use of force.

She was tasered for resisting arrest.

Cops love tasers. It puts the suspect down without (usually) killing them and punching somebody's lights out is not a good strategy. For one thing the cop could lose in a fight (probably not in this case) but why risk it? You've never been hit in the nuts. I have. That's why if I'm ever again get in a fight that's where I'm going and with my foot.

Maybe he was wrong I don't know but from reading here:
She was abusive.
She refused to sign the ticket when asked to.
She agreed to when she realized that she had screwed up.

It sounds like she pissed him off. He gave her a chance and she blew it. Then when she changed her mind she had a pissed off cop to deal with and she did the pissing off.

I'm sorry to hear about you previous problems with cops.

what harm could she possibly do to him? he's a dick.

.. do all of that shit and you know it or you are a fool.

Probably the latter.

Or assaulting an officer?

'Oh, look at that big strong officer, abusing that little old lady'.

Sexist much?

:toast:

"I'm a 72 year old woman I can do whatever the fuck I want"

Old people can still be assholes- maybe she will think twice next time. I bet she was a real peach in her 30's and 40's :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm trying to do the math on this one. Seems young to me.

This is a tough one though. Is it better for a police officer to forcefully put her in the squad car or use the taser. No good options.

...by some standards of child bearing age these days - she could be a great-great granny

Give birth at 16, Daughter\son has children at 16 (now you are 32), grandkids give birth at 20 (now you are 52), Great Grandkids give birth at 20 - there you go.

My parents are in their 70's now and they're not even grandparents yet :).

Now, at 84, she's a great-great grandmother.

One side of the family reproduced rather quickly. I'm barely older than the later generation on that side.

She's the grandmother of one, my daughter. My husband's daughter has a child, but Mom doesn't know his daughter at all, they've never met, so she's not really a "grandmom" to my spouse's kid.

Regardless, tasing like this should require, at the very least, departmental discipline.

:hi:

Then the original parent would be a great-grand parent by the age of 72.

The average age for a first time mother in the USA has been on the rise for the past few years and is currently up to 24.9 years old.

She gave birth to her son at age 14. He had a baby at 15.

dughter had a child at 14 as well.

My own daughter will be 28 tomorrow. I try to imagine her as a grandma. Nope. She isn't even a mom yet.

that you would ever want to be in positions of authority. There needs to be a much better screening process.

I know a psychologist who administers tests to these folks. Unfortunately, he doesn't make the call; some in-house person does that. He tells me that there is very little difference between cops and criminals. They tend toward being sadistic, conscienceless, and dumb as posts. Some municipalities actually exclude people who score too high on IQ tests. As a society, we have far more to fear from cops than we do from criminals. We need fewer of them, and those we do have need very close supervision. And if one of them steps out of line (like tasing a helpless old lady), they should be fired and prosecuted.

and hand cuffed them. But now they run for the taser. Remember that kid in the "don't shoot me bro?" There were four burly security guards, of policeman - don't remember - who could easily have grabbed him and dragged him outside.

Same with this woman. Why not just hand cuff her and throw her in his police squad?

On the other hand, I suppose, we should be grateful that he did not just shoot her.

and this afternoon a great granny........you can't make this stuff up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y5Y2c1c0_U&feature=email

"Police say officer acted 'by the book'. What book is that?", says Fox News reader.

Both these people did some wrong things.

None of this would have happened if the woman didn't have an attitude in the first place. If she had questions about signing the ticket, she could have asked the officer. I think she thought that by signing she was automatically admitting guilt. She flat-out lied to the media afterwards saying she was not combative. She's no innocent, but tries to play up the '72 year-old grandma' part to deflect criticism. Rule number one, DON'T give the officer an excuse. Stay calm, and cooperative. Anything you disagree with, take the badge number and license number, time of day, etc. and file a complaint. Will anything get done? Who knows, but look how effective this way of dealing with it is. Any non-cooperation or offensive behavior will give the hearing the committee the chance to deny your complaint.

The officer could have de-escalated the rhetoric at several points, especially if she says she will sign the thing. She certainly didn't seem dangerous, but you never know.

I'm not going to join in in the blanket denigration of all cops, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Sometimes, the reason generally good cops have an attitude is because of the fact that everytime they pull someone over it could be the last minute of their lives.

and she was given ample warning.

sometimes you just have to make an example of the uppity ones.

or is rape something that police where you come from generally use to subdue a subject..? :shrug:

:rofl:


Now I got to go play in the dungeon some more :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The late night crowd is going to have a field day with this one.

once she got out of the truck

acted like that, he would have no problem if they tasered her.

This is just another case of one asshole covering for another.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Stupid bastard.

And this cop didn't have the skill to control the situation with a 72-year old woman?

Sad.

semester. I'm 5'7" tall. I haven't had to write a referral for discipline in 10 years. (And I haven't even WANTED to tase anyone yet.)

Oh wait both of those are far more dangerous than tasers.

David

Not a wise move.

Uh, it does not work that way and the Cop was out of line to do so. I know, I asked my Cop friends.

but I have no sympathy for the granny that was using her age and gender as a crutch. There was a lot of disgusting entitlement in that video.

she did lunge like originally claimed? Probably bring out a ballistic missle. I guess cops aren't taight restarint or to deal with stressful situations. What scum he is.