4th victim dies in Philly police-chase crash

Source: Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA - A woman has died after being hit by a car that crashed into a crowd during a Philadelphia police chase and killed three young children, at least one of them hers.

Albert Einstein Medical Center spokeswoman Judy Horwitz said 22-year-old Latoya Smith died Thursday morning.

"It's a tragedy," police Commissioner Charles Ramsey said.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31215073/

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My God, when will it end? My son lost his life during a high speed police chase in November 2007. We lose on average 3 people a week from police pursuits. In 2007, 404 people were killed during police chases, at least a third of them innocent bystanders, like these 3 children and one young mother.
There has got to be a better way than chasing a suspect through a residential area at such high speeds. Was a motorcycle thief worth 4 lives?

when they are the ones who kill innocent bystanders.

Just yesterday, a NJ cop was acquitted of all charges after he ran a red light (at 65 mph in a 35 zone), with no siren or lights on, and murdered two young girls by ramming their car.

And he was just chasing a speeder, not a criminal.

The cops who were involved in my son's death never got reprimanded, suspended, or disciplined. They remain on the force, and the chases occur every day here. My son was riding his bike home, crossing to the west while north and southbound traffic had a red light. The man who hit my son came through the intersection heading north and hit my son at 90 mph. The police chasing did not stop and the police at the scene did nothing to help my son. He survived the initial collision but died of internal bleeding an hour later at the hospital. Upon hearing from the EMT's that my son had a pulse of 35, one police officer is heard saying, "Like roaches, man, they don't die", as another officer laughed.

it is sanctioned by the authorities only makes it worse, if that is possible.

I was so sad to hear about the three little children who died in Philly and it must be a reminder of your tragic loss every time you hear of one of these incidents. The biggest problem is that the only ones who pay for these type of incidents are the victims and their families. You have a powerful voice and hopefully you can use your tragedy to help effect change and end the senseless killing of the innocent. My thoughts are with you!

If people knew that cops wouldn't give chase, wouldn't everybody just speed up once a cop turned on his lights? I know I would.

in-car computers and databases accessible in seconds, they culd probably beat the person home and be waiting for them there.

But that would prevent them from playing high-speed chase through residential areas.

There is no valid way to defend this kind of atrocity!

Aren't they endangering others in the first place? Many people with no records are found doing some pretty questionable things with routine traffic stops. Drunks, serial killers, child molesters, etc .

the chase, the speeder would likely slow down so as not to draw further attention to themselves.

Second - they have the license plate, they have the address. Go there and pick them up in a calm, controlled manner.

But cops would rather drive like Dirty Harry through the streets, regardless of the consequences to innocents who happen to get in their way.

after a police chase ends, right? :rofl:

You did not answer my point about speeding being dangerous in the first place. I guess all those cases of speeding motorists killing people in collisions is just propoganda.

I realize they tried to steal the motorcycle, but the officers in pursuit have no way to know if the getaway car actually belongs to the thieves.

I prefer to live in a free society where our appointed peace officers pursue, apprehend, and deliver thieves, murderers and rapists to the judicial system, than a society in which they do not. Doing something incurs risk, doing nothing incurs other risks. I'll take the 'pursue' option.

Many departments will relax pursuit if they can get a helicopter up, and the person fleeing exhibits extremely dangerous driving.

Not to mention distraction and whatnots. Although, I doubt most law abiding citizens - even you - would be stupid enough to keep on going just because they know a cop wont enter a high-speed a pursuit. This is simply because we all know that all they have to do look up our plates and find out where we live. The real problem, as I see it, are the real criminals who may have a stolen vehicle or people who are drunk and driving, etc... Not sure what the answer is in those situations.

If you're arguing that, you're fucked in the head.

Tell me how many serial killers have been apprehended with a routine traffic stop.

You sound like a very frightened little person.

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If people knew that cops wouldn't give chase, wouldn't everybody just speed up once a cop turned on his lights? I know I would.

Some people get away. It's not the end of the world. For these dead people, it is the end of the world.

Second, it need not be a binary operation, either chase or no chase, finis. The point would be that cops need to stop being trained that everybody who runs must be caught, and start being trained to weigh the public safety first and foremost. Catching the one who flees EVERY time is mistaking the means for the end, and it is a damn stupid police philosophy that needs to be stopped.

A large # of serious criminals are caught due to routine traffic stops.

Not *assumed* violent offenders. You cease chasing even known violent offenders when the conditions for the public are too dangerous. Jeez, all this money we spend on police training, and we pretend that these people can't make reasonable judgment calls? The problem is not some mystified sense of "who to chase," but an existing ideology that *everyone must be chased.* It's fucking stupid, and dangerous, and counter-productive to the very mission of the police.

The problem is not that it would be hard to train people to make reasonable judgments. the problem is that we have to untrain people on the universal applicability of their bone-headed chase philosophy.

aren't you a known dangerous offender? What if it a suspected drunk, do you continue the chase then? What about a suspected but not known, armed robbery suspect(car matches make, model, and color, but no plate info)?

It's not a question in the abstract, as much as you'd like to "win" and internet argument.

Can you cite a police department that has a 'must pursue' at all costs policy? I'm not aware of any.

The Independence MO. Police Department has a policy that contains guidelines for chases, but the officers don't follow the policy. There were 11 pursuit related deaths in Missouri in 2007, and three of those occurred here in Independence in 8 days, one of them my son. There was one on 10/31/07, one in the early morning of 11/08/07, and the one that took my son at 9 PM on 11/08/07. It's out of control here.

Citizens review boards, you might have a recall option if the chief sherriff was elected, pressure on the Governor, etc. Get involved. If they are ignoring the policy, and lives are at risk, there are things you can do.

Seattle used to have this problem. We had a pretty horiffic crash a few years back, and everyone flipped out on the Police Department. We haven't had a pursuit gone bad since, to my knowledge. Nothing that's made the news anyway.

The police work for you, they are your (and mine, and all resident's) employees. Not unreasonable to hold them to their own standards, and expect good quality of service, or else.

To the extent I have been allowed to. I have pressed for the policy to be changed, I have spoken with the City Council. No one seems to see any flaws with the policy. Now, they refuse to discuss it at all due to the pending litigation. We will have to wait until the civil case is resolved.
I am also a member of a non profit organization that is working to change flawed policies across the country. Here's the link, with loads of information and statistics:
www.pursuitsafety.org

My son's story, as well as hundreds of other innocent victims of pursuits can be found here. We have PSA's in the works, and are doing what we can to bring awareness to the public.

Has the original article you linked been updated since you posted it? It indicates the situation that occurred yesterday was a case of the police NOT pursuing. The officer was unable to do so, because of blocking traffic at the intersection where he turned on his submission lights, and ordered the suspect to pull over. There doesn't appear to have been a chase at all?

It is still unclear if the officer was pursuing. I'm sure more details will be released in the coming days.
In the meantime, there are three little girls lost, and a young mother. My prayers and heartfelt sympathy go out to their families and friends. God Bless.

The problem is you need a policy AGAINST "must pursue" to the extent that it functions as a practice.

Practically every police department in the country has a pursuit policy; doesn't necessarily mean they follow it. All that is required is that one is in place. In our case, the police have a pursuit policy, yet they violated it numerous times during the chase that killed my son. Not every crime justifies a chase. More information is needed in this most recent tragedy to make a judgment call on exactly what made the police chase this guy through a residential neighborhood.

or the person being pursued?

I am sorry for your loss.

My son was not being chased, he was riding his bike. The guy the police were chasing caused the injuries my son suffered, but the inaction of the police and the EMT's caused him to bleed to death.

EXCLUSIVE: Suit Accuses Police of Negligence

INDEPENDENCE, Mo. - The City of Independence, its police department, and a major ambulance provider in the metro face a lawsuit. They're accused of allowing a teenager, hit by a suspect fleeing police, to bleed to death.

Maybe most disturbing is the comment an officer made on tape.

"They're like roaches, man," said the unidentified Independence police officer. "They don't die."

That comment is at the heart of a new lawsuit filed Monday.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story/EXCLUSIVE-Suit-Accuses-Police-of-Negligence/4YdEX1FjBUurZu75TFiKDg.cspx

Watch the video on the right.

First up, sorry for your loss.

The lack of care for the injured child is certainly grounds for the lawsuit. Looks pretty clear they screwed up. No quibble with you on that point.

However, once the police turned on their submission lights, and the suspect began fleeing, how can you know the suspect would have slowed down, if the police didn't chase? Statistically speaking, some will slow down, but not all. Some run as fast and far as they can, whether there's a cop in the rear view or not.

I don't see the negligence that allowed your son to die, being connected in any way whatever with how he was injured in the first place.

First up, thanks for the 'sorry for your loss' comment. People who defend the cops have always thrown that little tidbit in before they proceed to defend the actions of the cops that night.
You can't ever know what someone is going to do. But they were calling my son "J-4", code for deceased before ANYONE even knew whether he was alive or dead. They assumed he was deceased, then just walked around, looking at him, while he laid there. HE WAS ALIVE AT THE SCENE, HE DID NOT PASS AWAY FOR AN HOUR AFTER BEING HIT. How is that not negligence on their part? They actually said to the EMT's, "he's a goner" when they got there. NOT ONE COP TOOK A PULSE OR EVEN CHECKED HIM IN ANY WAY, just stated, he's J-4. The EMT's also just took the word of the cops and had no urgency in providing care for my son. Nobody did their jobs that night, and now my precious boy is gone forever.

I was quite specific about that. I wasn't there, but all accounts you've provided point to negligence. I don't use that word lightly, because it is a legal term. They appear liable for his death. Not unreasonable to assume that he might have lived if he had received prompt medical attention.

None of this has anything to do with the behavior of the suspect, and whether or not he would have hit your son, if the police had not pursued. The two questions are entirely separate.

If you try to run from the police, they use the radio to summon more police.

You don't have to catch everybody, nor is the fact that somebody "got away" a personal indictment of your competence. Your primary job is to ensure the safety of the public by enforcing laws. If a situation endangers the public, you should use the training we pay all this money for to make a judgment call and weigh public safety more than apprehension.

Sincerely,
me

PS: I know you're going to say that halting most high speed chases only encourages suspects to flee. I don't care. So they escape this time. Fine. At least I'm still alive. That so many of these chases involve mere property crimes only heightens the point. Apart from *known* violent offenders (I don't want to hear that everyone is assumed to be a violent predicate offender), you should stop with the high speed chases. It contradicts your purpose.

the suspect decided to step on the gas? If so, there is no rational reason to conduct a high speed chase.

Unless the car is stolen.

:shrug:

Unless they *know* for a fact that a murderer or a rapist or some other violent threat to the public is in the car, a stolen vehicle does not warrant putting a whole community in danger to get a collar. It's asinine.

Just putting flaw into the logic that just because they have licence plate number they know who they are chasing.

he panicked and was chased. I did a report on police chases for a high school driving class. That was many years ago and the practice was stupid and deadly then and it still is. Sure traffic STOPS catch criminals and that's fine. But high speed chases 'cause some kid stole a camera or skipped school deserves a death sentence (for innocents too) without a trial? Don't think so.

My condolences on the loss of your son... I don't have children, but I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it must be to lose a loved one, let alone a child. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

But as a police employee (communications, dispatch to be specific) I do feel like I should respond to the blanket condemnation of police officers some posters have replied with. I'm in Arizona, and the agency I work for has very, very strict rules when it comes to vehicle pursuits. For starters, officers are not permitted to make the call to pursue on their own, because clearly an officer who has someone run from him -will- want to pursue. It's just in their nature to want to catch the bad guy. But they're too close to the situation, too emotionally involved with wanting to nab the runner.

So my agency's policy is that only an officer of sergeant rank or higher can authorize pursuit of a fleeing vehicle, and then -only- if the crime the person committed involves violence or a weapon. We won't pursue speeders, or people who run red lights. For instance, when I was out riding along with an officer, a young man was carjacked at knifepoint at one of the malls here in my city. The sergeant who took incident command made the decision to pursue, but advised all officers in the pursuit not to take any undue risk in doing so, because our air support unit was called out, had the fleeing vehicle sighted and lit up with the spotlight, and was following it. The air unit was able to direct the patrol units in heading the car off, forcing him off a busy street and onto a less crowded side street, where he was boxed in and taken into custody without injury to anyone, including the suspect himself.

Furthermore, officers here are required to slow down while approaching intersections and make absolutely certain that all drivers are aware of the emergency vehicles' presence before moving on. From what I've gathered, if an officer is found to have disobeyed this rule (and after all pursuits, the dashcams of all vehicles involved are reviewed by a board of inquiry), he's subject to discipline which may take the form of termination.

It sounds to me as if the Philly police could stand to adjust their policies, if that many pursuits are winding up with innocent bystanders injured or killed. I agree with you that it's not worth risking harm to bystanders to pursue a criminal, unless that criminal has shown himself to be a danger to the public. And even then, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about doing it. As a sergeant here put it to me, "If we allow our desire to catch the bad guy to lead us by the nose until we're a danger to the people of the city, then we're no better than the people we try to catch."

one of our neighbors was killed as the result of being hit at a stoplight by a guy fleeing a police chase at 100+ MPH. He left five kids under 10 and a wife behind.

I don't believe chases are effective for the reasons you outlined in your post. With the technology available to police now, chasing is the last thing they should be doing, because innocent people are injured or die as a result.

IMHO.

And one of the characteristic of that mental disorder is once they start to run they will run until it is clear that no one is chasing them. Most police departments have special rules if a license plate is found to belong to a person who is Schizophrenic, basically to break off the chase as that is the best way to end the chase (The Schizophrenic person will sooner or later stop and go home and be arrested).

Do to people with Schizophrenia Police departments have to have a policy when to engage in a Chase and when to break it off.

I am so very sorry for your loss! :hug:

It is utterly ridiculous to blame the police for the criminal's behavior. The thieves/murderers are responsible for this, not the police. They should receive the death penalty for this. I can't believe the over the top anti-police mentality around here.

People with Paranoid Schizophrenia have a strong tendency to run if chased, the best way to end the chase is to leave that person go. Thus most Police Departments will look up any license plate and if it comes up that it is associated with a person who is Schizophrenic (and a tie in is made, for such notes are in the Police Database do to the fact this problem is that well known) most police departments have policy to end the Chase right then and there, even if the chased vehicle is still going a full speed.

One of the problem is Schizophrenics are the most likely people to run from the Police, more so then high risk criminals, thus to assume the chased person is a criminal is probably NOT correct (Except as to violating the Driving Code).

They were common street thugs, career criminals. Quite frankly, they shouldn't have even been on the street. If we had some decent laws these assholes would still have been in prison and this incident would never have occurred. The one guy had eight priors, five for weapons and the other had five priors for auto theft. It's a goddamn shame that 4 people had to die before these animals could be put away for life.

She was struck by one of the police cars while she and her friend were attempting to cross the street. The policeman was going 80 miles an hour, and I don’t know if it would have made a difference, but he didn’t have his emergency lights on. What’s so fucked up about it is that the guy the police were chasings big crime was a traffic violation then refusing to stop.