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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:25 PM
Original message
Brazil: Air France Crash Bodies Show Fractures
Edited on Wed Jun-17-09 12:30 PM by Turborama
Source: AP

Experts say autopsies on victims of the Air France disaster suggest the plane broke up in the air.

A spokesman for Brazilian medical examiners says they had multiple fractures of legs, hips and arms.

The official spoke to The Associated Press on Wednesday on condition he not be named due to department rules.

A forensic expert who once worked at the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board says those injuries could mean the plane broke apart in air.

Frank Ciacco says large chunks of the plane recovered are another clue.

Ciacco says bodies and debris would be severely fragmented if the jet crashed intact.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOegnahAFcEgwJZ4WKGkVz9Dgq5wD98SI6980
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not to be morose, but wouldn't the plane hitting the water intact also produce fractures?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It could mean either.
If the plane hit the water at sufficient impact (which is not very fast), then all sorts of fractures could happen as well.
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Perhaps they are talking about fractures as oppossed to burns, implying no explosion?
Edited on Wed Jun-17-09 12:34 PM by Mrs. Overall
To rule out a bomb?
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. It would produce minced meat
large chunks means the bodies free fell to the ocean.
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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wouldn't hitting the water at so many mph after falling a couple thousand feet
also cause multiple fractures?

I thought it was already pretty established that it broke apart in mid-air which accounted for the debris spread.

That said, is "broke apart" different than specifically stating "exploded?"
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. or "bombed"
Not making any accusations, just leaving open all possibilities
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. So there'd be no fractures if the plane hit the water
in tact but as an out-of-control speeding projectile?

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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Not really
if the plane hit the water at speed the bodies would have been pretty much ripped apart. A plane breaking up in mid air would cause fractures but the bodies would still be intact upon hitting the water if I understood it correctly.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Apparently, there'd be more head injuries rather than hip and leg fractures.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCX7YbZZwokM

Autopsies Suggest Airbus Passengers Were Seated, Estado Says

By Laura Price

June 17 (Bloomberg) -- The injuries to many of the bodies recovered after the June 1 crash of an Air France plane suggest they were seated at the time of impact, indicating at least one section of fuselage may have hit the ocean on its underbelly, O Estado de S. Paulo said, citing unidentified investigators.

Autopsies showed a majority of the 43 bodies examined so far had leg and hip fractures typical of a trauma suffered while sitting, the Brazilian newspaper said. The lack of many skull injuries in the passengers on the Rio de Janeiro-to-Paris flight also suggests the Airbus A330-200 didn’t nosedive, Estado said.

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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Probably not. The bodies would have been shredded.
The fact that they're intact with fractures suggests that the bodies decelerated before hitting the water. A body hitting the water after a 30,000 foot free fall will hit the water at about 120 MPH. An intact A330 plunging from 30,000 feet can hit the water at over 600 MPH. The fact that the bodies are in one piece suggests that they were thrown from the plane at sufficient altitude to decelerate before hitting the water.

The fact that they have also found more than 50 bodies hints at something else as well. Pan Am 103 demonstrated that seatbelted passengers will remain attached to their seats even when ejected at cruising speed. The fact that these bodies were found seperated from the wreckage suggests that they weren't belted in.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. "those injuries could mean"
Could mean...

This is how conspiracy theories get started. Someone releases an early statement about a possibility, and people latch on to that as ironclad forensic evidence that overrides all carefully collected and analyzed data found in the following months by trained professionals with the time and resources to recreate the entire scenario.

Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but we won't know until the evidence is analyzed anyway, so what's the point of publishing partial statements from unnamed sources, anyway?
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. The fractures are consistent with hitting the water while strapped to a seat

they had multiple fractures of legs, hips and arms
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. This bit of evidence appears to indicate...
that the pilots may have had at least some control at the time the plane hit the water--the remark that at least some of the fuselage hit the water flat seems to bear that out.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. No they are saying it broke up in the air
A forensic expert who once worked at the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board says those injuries could mean the plane broke apart in air.

Frank Ciacco says large chunks of the plane recovered are another clue.

Ciacco says bodies and debris would be severely fragmented if the jet crashed intact.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOegnahAFcEgwJZ4WKGkVz9Dgq5wD98SI6980

A section of fuselage could come down in a flat trajectory. Remember TWA 800 they found many of the bodies intact. Large portions of the fuselage and cockpit may have come down intact and broke apart on hitting the water or broke apart as it fell.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. so sad.
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