Source: BBC News

Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has been arrested by troops ahead of a controversial constitutional referendum.

Mr Zelaya's private secretary told AP news agency the president had been arrested and brought to a base on the outskirts of the capital, Tegucigalpa.

The move comes days after the president sacked the armed forces chief, who had refused to back the refendendum plan.

Mr Zelaya wants a constitutional change allowing him to seek a second term

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8123126.stm

See, for all of the Hugo-ito-ites, I'm against ANYBODY's getting changes to constitutions and charters for ANY kind of benefit, whether changing the rules of the road or pay increases.

What happened to INCUMBENTS being exempted from any changes occuring DURING their own terms of service?!1

This means YOU, BLOOMBERG!1

If it's done by general plebiscite, in a highly transparent election--as it was done in Venezuela--that's democracy, my friend. The people have a right to change their Constitution. In fact, Jefferson suggested that we re-write ours every 20 years or so, to keep democracy fresh. In Venezuela's case, the term limit thing, this year, was a general amendment lifting all term limits (including on a number of rightwing governors), which was overwhelmingly approved by the voters of Venezuela. Also, Chavez is hugely popular in Venezuela (on-going average 60% approval rating throughout his tenure, to today), for good reason. The Chavez government has vastly improved the lives of most people, and has led the continent on innovative ideas, such as the Bank of the South (local/regional control of development funds) and ALBA (barter trade group).

There are big differences between Venezuela and Honduras, on this matter (Constitutional change). For one thing, Zelaya (according to our corpo/fascist press) has only a 20% or so approval rating (if true--I'm not sure of this--he seems to have labor and peasant farmer support). Also important, Honduras doesn't seem to have the strong grass roots movement that Venezuela and other leftist countries do. This takes years to develop. It did not happen overnight in Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and other countries. And, Chavez has support in the middle class and in the military. One other thing, Zelaya came rather late to the leftist democracy movement that has swept Latin America. He played the Bushwhacks' game for a while, but when the winds changed, he changed course. Honduras joined ALBA, for instance, just last year--as the Central American region turned left, with the election of leftist governments in El Salvador to the west of Honduras, Nicaragua to the south, and Guataemala to the north--in addition to all the leftist victories in South America. And when he joined ALBA, he said that it was because Honduras was getting no benefit from the Bushwhacks. So I am not certain of his commitment to leftist democracy; he seems to me more of an opportunist.

Finally, we need to understand how desperate our corpo/fascists are to hang onto to any footholds they have in Latin America. These events in Honduras could be highly manipulated to disfavor democracy and social justice, and to provide a base for U.S. corpo/fascist military and economic goals. It is very difficult to get a clear picture of what is happening from our corpo/fascist press. On the surface, it seems that Zelaya may have tried to repeat the great successes of Constitutional reform that we have seen in Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, prematurely--without strong grass roots organization. He was trying to engineer a general, participatory Constitutional process of re-writing and voting on the Constitution (as occurred in these other countries). It wasn't just about term limits. In fact, term limits wasn't even on the ballot. It was an advisory vote: 'Do you want a Constitutional convention?' (He was NOT dictating a new Constitution, or lifting his term limit.) It's interesting that the courts, the legislature and the military all turned against him. And now they are putting forth the notion that he is insane. Maybe he is. I really can't say. But I don't trust the entrenched rightwing establishment of Honduras, which has long been collusive in U.S.-instigated fascist wars in Latin America, is fat with U.S. military aid, and has created one of the worst rich vs poor discrepancies in the western hemisphere. They may think it is "insane" to challenge U.S. economic/military policy, which has made them so rich (and corrupt). But what is "insane" about a Constitutional process and vote? Why not hold the vote? Do the people of Honduras want a structural change? Why not ask them? What is so threatening about that?

I don't know the legal in's and out's. Maybe Zelaya didn't follow proper process. (Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador were scrupulously legal and proper, in their Constitutional efforts.) And, as I said, maybe he is not fully sincere; or maybe he is half-cracked; or maybe his was an idea whose time had just not come--the country wasn't ready for it. But I would warn everyone against internalizing our corpo/fascist media's read on the situation--that it is just a politician wanting to lift his term limit. I think that is a side issue, and there is much, much more involved than that.

"Mr Zelaya wants a constitutional change allowing him to seek a second term." --BBC

That is NOT accurate. He was seeking a general advisory vote of the people on whether or not they want to rewrite their Constitution (as the people of Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador have done). He may want his term limit lifted. That is NOT what he proposed. And, in fact, it may be a corpo/fascist slander--a way of distorting a genuine leftist movement for change, just as the corpo/fascist press has done with regard to the important leftist democracy movement in Venezuela, making it seem to be a matter of one man's ambition. The BBC is not above touting corpo/fascist "talking points." I am now going to read the whole article to see if they correct themselves or clarify. That is a really big reporting error.

The vote, which was supposed to happen today, was NOT about the presidential term limit!

--------------------------------------

But it's quite interesting to read the rest of the article. It seems that the U.S. (Obama, Clinton--or at least the U.S. ambassador in Honduras) may have acted treacherously in this series of events. Here's the BBC:

"In an interview with Spain's El Pais newspaper published on Sunday, Mr Zelaya - an ally of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez - said a planned coup attempt against him had been thwarted after the US refused to back it.

"'Everything was in place for the coup and if the US embassy had approved it, it would have happened. But they did not,' Mr Zeleya said.

"'I'm only still here in office thanks to the United States.'

Mr Zelaya sacked the head of the army, Gen Romeo Vasquez, late on Wednesday, after the military refused to help organise the referendum.

The president had also accepted the resignation of Defence Minister Edmundo Orellana.

Mr Zelaya's arrest took place an hour before polls were due to open."

-----------------------------

They promised him support, to lull him into a sense of being protected, then gave the go-ahead for the Honduran military to arrest him?

That's what it looks like. Bear in mind what I said above: Our Corporate Rulers and "war on drugs" profiteers have BIG strategic interests in not permitting a leftist democracy revolution in Honduras. They are losing their battle against democracy and social justice all over Latin America. Their ability to use the "war on drugs" excuse to militarize and nazify Latin American societies is being seriously curtailed. Their opportunities to loot and plunder Latin American resources and cheap labor have been vastly reduced, with the success of governments that act in the interests of their people. And, believe me, the Bushwhacks had an oil war plan in the Caribbean, involving grabbing control of Venezuela's northern coastal oil reserves-- a war plan that may be on the backburner, for now, but is most certainly real.

Honduras--as before, under the Reagan "reign of terror" in Central America--is a prime strategic location for U.S. war planning and mobilization, and one of the few remaining bastions of "neo-liberalism" (impoverishment of the majority). Ecuador is throwing the U.S. military base out of their country this year. The U.S. military and the "drug war" profiteers are looking for a new base of operations, and have damn few choices. They need a country where the local population is totally subdued. That omits Peru and Mexico--and leaves Colombia and Honduras. (Although the "war on drugs" is corrupting Peru and Mexico with billions in military aid, their people would revolt at the presence of a U.S. military base. Even the rightwing president of Mexico insisted on Mexican control of the "war on drugs" money and activities, for this reason--Mexicans' attachment to their own sovereignty. There would be continual agitation against a U.S. military base, as there was in Ecuador for many years, before a leftist government was elected, with, among other things, a pledge to evict the U.S. military base.)

Colombia is in a hot war with leftist guerrillas, and is notorious for its rightwing death squads and drug trafficking and other corruption at the highest levels. It is a very unstable country. A formal U.S. military base in Colombia (in addition to the current $6 BILLION in military aid) would be seen throughout Latin American as propping up a fascist regime. Although the people have been subdued in Colombia, with various forms of death, torture, intimidation and oppression, and a U.S. military base could be imposed on them against their will, it may not be the smartest of moves for the Obama administration. So, where else can the U.S. military ensconce itself? Honduras--which has a long coast on the Caribbean and sea access to the Pacific.

It's a subject most people haven't learned a lot about, yet, although most people have heard about the evil death squads there, the murder of clergy, leftists, and the presence of the poisonous ambassador, John Negroponte, who also figured in the stolen Presidency of _{George W. Bush.}

Here's a quick look at the Air Force Base the US uses, which is very active currently:

Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras
Joint Task Force-Bravo is located at Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras. JTF-Bravo is comprised of approximately 550 US military personnel and more than 650 US and Honduran civilians. They work in six different areas including the Joint Staff, Air Force Forces (612th Air Base Squadron), Army Forces, Joint Security Forces and the Medical Element. 1st Battalion, 228th Aviation Regiment, a US Army South asset, is a tenant unit also based at Soto Cano. The J-Staff provides command and control for JTF-B.

The Air Force Forces has among its functions; weather forecasting, fire protection, and maintaining a 24-hour C-5-capable runway. The Army Forces operate finance, food service and transportation. Joint Security Forces is comprised of Air Force, Army and Marine force protection personnel who patrol the base and downtown areas frequented by US servicemembers.

Health care services are performed by the Medical Element. The 1st Battalion, 228th Aviation Regiment performs a variety of airlift support missions throughout Central and South America with UH-60 Black Hawk and CH-47 Chinook helicopters. US forces are guests here on the base which is the home of the Honduran Air Force Academy.

As early as 1965, the US and Honduran Armed Forces conducted combined training exercises. In 1983, the number and size of these exercises increased when the US, at the request of the Honduran Government, began maintaining a visible military presence in the face of threats from foreign forces. This initial joint force was designated JTF-11. Since 1983, the joint task force has provided support for joint and combined training exercises involving active and reserve components. The location and climate of Honduras combine to provide US military members an opportunity to train in an overseas, semi-tropical, austere environment.

The task force also oversees Operation New Horizons — civil engineer training missions that build new schools, bridges, wells and other infrastructure projects in underdeveloped regions of Central America, as well as assisting US forces in providing humanitarian assistance. Additionally, Soto Cano stages and arranges regular medical readiness training exercises throughout Central America — dispatching doctors, dentists and nurses to remote regions to treat locals, some of whom have never received modern medical care.

Soto Cano is a Honduran military installation and home of the Honduran Air Force and Naval Academy. It is located less than 10 miles from Comayagua (population: 33,000), and 60 miles from the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa. The base is about two miles wide and six miles long; lies in the Comayagua Valley and is ringed by 8,000-foot mountain peaks to the east and west. Soto Cano sits at an elevation of 2,062 feet above sea level.

Soto Cano lodging consists of “hooches” and metal barracks. Hooches are temporary wooden buildings of tropical design, normally 16-feet by 32-feet with screened windows and a tin roof with air conditioners and fans for cooling. Metal barracks are more permanent structures and have air conditioners. Both contain beds, televisions, VCRs, refrigerators and microwaves. Latrines, shower facilities and laundry rooms are centrally located to the living areas. Dayrooms, volleyball courts, barbecues and “bohios” (covered picnic areas) are also located throughout the base. All the domestic facilities, like the post office, library, dining facility, gym, pool and base exchange, are clustered together within a five-minute walking distance.

Only a few airmen, mainly those with families in the area, own vehicles, since the government doesn’t ship privately owned vehicles to Honduras. The majority hoof it or ride bicycles, but since the base is so compact, it poses no problem. Most personnel arrive via the “Freedom Bird,” which conducts weekly flights from Charleston AFB, S.C., normally on Mondays, that fly directly into Soto Cano.

On December 11, 2002 five soldiers from 1-228th were killed when a UH-60 crashed into a mountain 85 miles north of Tegucigalpa. The aircraft departed Sen Pedro Sula at 8;14 PM and crashed 20 minutes later. It was headed to the US base in Palmerola.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/soto-cano.htm

http://warhistorian.org.nyud.net:8090/blog1/images/soto-cano-air-base.jpg
More images:
http://www.vittsite.com/honduras/SCAB.html

got any links showing Obama ordered the CIA to have the guy arrested?

Some folks here feel the mullahs busted up Obama's coup attempt of Iran. You can tell who backed the mullahs by their lack of replies on those "anti mullah" threads. ;)

Where were you when people were posting their shock over events the mullahs control "by decree" ?

Venezuela's Chavez praises Ahmadinejad's "great victory"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5851559



I've noticed you avoided a few choice threads that condemned the Iranian crackdown.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5851559

Your loyalties would have been compromised :crazy:

Venezuela's Chavez creates new intelligence agencies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3330748&mesg_id=3343585


So your next question is ;
What's the Hunduras supreme court have to do with Hugo crackdowns ?

Chavez appoints official to govern Caracas

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3831852&mesg_id=3831852

I'm genuinely curious. Do tell.

so we support the mullahs best second choice and a military impeachment of a RW turning left

this latest 'coup' .

ignore your 30 yr old links and try to follow events of the past 30 days

K ?

:eyes:

You fear Tweets don't you.
Why?

the thousands and thousands of Georgians who die in the Russian attack but we were all Georgians

Deibold was used in Venuezala but wasn't an issue .....




24 million votes counted by hand in two hours in Iran and some feel results shouldn't be questionedeither


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8e2_1244936838

Here are the quotes from President Zelaya:

"'Everything was in place for the coup and if the US embassy had approved it, it would have happened. But they did not,' Mr Zeleya said.

"'I'm only still here in office thanks to the United States.'

The source is the BBC. Zeleya was convinced that he had U.S. support. He is the elected president of Honduras. And he apparently had some assurances from the U.S., to make these statements. It is certainly indicative of the U.S./Honduras relationship that he would assume that, if the U.S. supported a coup against him, it would then occur. If what he said is more or less the truth, then one of these scenarios must have occurred: 1) Obama, Clinton, the U.S. ambassador to Honduras and the CIA backed the kidnapping of the Honduran president (according to Zeleya's wife, he was beaten and dragged out in the middle of the night and his whereabouts are unknown), and installation of a military coup in Honduras, after fooling Zelaya into thinking he had their support; or, 2) these entities (Obama, Clinton, the U.S. ambassador and/or the CIA) are working at odds with each other, which I think is possible; or, 3) the Honduran military undertook their own coup, not supported by any U.S. power (which I think is unlikely).

I don't know, any more than you do, what is happening there, or what the U.S. role is. But we can be sure that the U.S. is involved, and we don't know whether for good or for ill, except that, if past history is a guide, it ain't good. The best that can happen is that the Honduran military and rightwing forces are acting on their own, and will get chastised and removed from power with the U.S. on the right side of the conflict, for once in its history. Next best is that the CIA, or the U.S. ambassador, or Clinton, are not following the orders of our elected president, and Obama will learn from it to take better control of our agencies. Worst scenario, that Obama agreed to this coup. Venezuela and the U.S. just restored diplomatic relations, just yesterday. This Honduran coup, if the U.S. is involved on the wrong side, could destroy Obama's more peaceful and cooperative policy in Latin America. It may be in the interest of some parties--the U.S. military, Exxon Mobil--for that to happen. I hope it does not.

But it's quite interesting to read the rest of the article. It seems that the U.S. (Obama, Clinton--or at least the U.S. ambassador in Honduras) may have acted treacherously in this series of events. Here's the BBC


:shrug:

do you not see it?



It seems some people want the rethugs back in the WH before "the tin foil" starts looking for rational directions to find a scape goat.

But the Supreme court of Honduras seems to be getting overlooked.

It's obvious...It wasn't properly stacked....or under paid

Should *co be allowed to rewrite the constitution and be elected indefinately ?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25705627-23109,00.html

Zelaya ousted legally, says Micheletti
"What we have done here is an act of democracy, because our army has complied with the order of the court, prosecutors and judges," Mr Micheletti said, winning loud applause from MPs.

"Our national army ... complied with the constitution."

The UN General Assembly has called an emergency session to discuss the political unrest in Honduras, scheduling a midday meeting at the request of Honduran Ambassador to the UN Jorge Reina Idiaquez.

Honduran troops ousted Mr Zelaya yesterday and flew him out of the country to Costa Rica, ending a bitter power struggle with the military as parliament swiftly voted in a new leader.

The Supreme Court said it had ordered the president's removal in order to protect law and order in the nation of some seven million people.

As Congress approved speaker Mr Micheletti as the new interim president, it said it had voted unanimously to remove Mr Zelaya from office for his "apparent misconduct" and for "repeated violations of the Constitution and the law and disregard of orders and judgements of the institutions".

I'm speechless.

Thank you.

And I do not think this was an innocent mistake.

They KNOW some people would rather feed on the fumes of cheap emotionalism rather than taking the time and making the effort to check up on the facts. It's always so easy to manipulate people like that.

Everything depends on their ignorance and indifference, and downright stupidity.

Other International news expresses it in the same way including Swiss News. May depend on wording of original news source - AP ?

to make news outlets repeat the same lie

ballot box in order to make a decision about the creation of a National Constitutional Assembly that would approve a new Constitution?" – brought the Armed Forces into the streets ...

Bricker: Honduras Votes Today on Opinion Poll
Monday, 29 June 2009, 10:33 am
Opinion: narconews.com
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0906/S00299.htm

He was told by Congress and the Supreme Court and the Elections tribunal that he was wrong and any attempt to change the constitution is ILLEGAL...he hard headedly tried to push forward and even was brave enough to say they couldn´t tell him what to do...what? Isn´t that the idea of a three branch government...especially when the Supreme Court says it is illegal...Presidents don´t make laws...Congress does.

I find it interesting that US citizens think that Honduran laws and the Honduran constitution is the same as it is in the US...I wonder though how quick you would react if the Republicans tried to reform the Constitutional Republic into a Christian Theocracy. Zelaya wanted to reform the constitution by throwing it out and establishing a one party government or an authoritarian state...sorry NO WE DON´T want that...

I find it really amusing that only on Democratic Underground do people think it is ok to stick their nose in our affairs and tell us how we should apply our laws...on the other forums this is not occurring.

www.newsvine.com the source for MSN.

Remember the people wanted him arrested..he was IMPEACHED...just like Clinton except there were real violations of the law.

Funny thing is...those siezed ballot boxes were already stuffed with more than half a million yes votes..how do you explain that...

Clinton was kidnapped, and all the ambassadors sympathetic to him were arrested? DAMN! I've been asleep I guess.

Do you not seriously see that people just won't fall for your line of crap? You may very well live in Honduras, but you're not "the people", you're an expat living in a foreign country with your own set of preconceptions. You might be a political genius, but it's not coming through in your posts, so I'm not counting you as an expert or even valid opinion.

I would explain the "seized ballot boxes stuffed wtih more than a half a million yes votes" by calling that statement what it is - bullshit along the lines of Uribe's magic laptop.

The impeachment process has been going on for over a month here.
He was impeached...not kidnapped. An arrest warrant was issued and it was executed by military which is the norm here when it involves government officials. He was removed from the country because he committed treason..if he had been kidnapped you wouldn´t be hearing his loud mouth from Costa Rica because they would have him under lock and key where he couldn´t run his mouth.
Why not ask him about the Massacre of Horcones that occurred on his property 34 years ago? What about asking him where the 50 million lempiras is from the government accounts?
How about asking him why he was denying medical treatment and pay to people who didn´t agree with him? Is that your idea of a democracy?

You've been all over the place like a cheap suit. Why not bring some information with you, if it's not too much trouble, jst the way the rest of responsible Democratic posters do here?

Shouldn't you be be spreading your right-wing propaganda on another Free Banana Republic website?

She's defending her class.

Posted by Kristin Bricker - June 28, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Congressman Cesar Ham Was a Zelaya Ally and Organizer of the Opinion Poll on a New Constitution

Cesar Ham, presidential candidate and the head of Honduras' only registered leftist political party, the Democratic Unification of Honduras, is dead. He was killed by a squad of soldiers who arrived at his home this morning to arrest him.

The military has rounded up many of Zelaya's allies within the government. Chancellor Patricia Rodas remains kidnapped.

Honduran police confirmed Ham's death to Notimex. The official version of events, as reported by Notimex, is that Ham confronted the military squad that came to his house with a gun, "and therefore he had to be killed."

Despite being from a different party, Ham was a close ally of ousted President Manuel Zelaya. Ham's party, the Democratic Unification of Honduras, is Honduras' only registered leftist party. Zelaya is from the conservative Liberal Party; he became a populist leftist after being elected ...

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/kristin-bricker/2009/06/honduran-military-assassinates-leftist-presidential-candidate

this filthy action.

Thank you for breaking the news. I'm so glad I checked back here.

El senador y presidenciable del MAS se encuentra en Tegucigalpa. Acusó la "consolidación" del alzamiento contra el presidente Zelaya. Manifestantes protestaron frente a embajada de Honduras en Chile

El senador y candidato presidencial del Movimiento Amplio Social (MAS), Alejandro Navarro, quien se encuentra en la ciudad de Tegucigalpa, denunció el inicio de la represión contra sectores afines al gobierno del derrocado presidente Manuel Zelaya por parte de las Fuerzas Armadas que este domingo concertaron un golpe de Estado en Honduras.

"Aquí hay mucha calma pero también preocupación por la persecución que se ha desatado en contra de parlamentarios gobiernistas. Hay a lo menos cinco diputados partidarios del gobierno que están siendo buscados y que han debido abandonar sus hogares luego de ser estos allanados: César Ham, secretario de Unión Democrática; Silvia Ayala, Marvin Ponce, Marleny Paz y Oscar Mejías", dijo Navarro en conversación con Cooperativa.

El parlamentario aseguró que la violencia no se ha remitido sólo a políticos hondureños, y mencionó el caso de "los embajadores de Venezuela y Cuba, quienes fueron maltratados y golpeados por fuerzas especiales encapuchadas durante la detención de la canciller Patricia Rodas, que está en la Base Aérea del aeropuerto de Tegucigalpa, y de quien no sabemos nada" ...

http://www.cooperativa.cl/navarro-denuncio-represion-militar-hondurena-contra-partidarios-de-zelaya/prontus_nots/2009-06-28/195504.html

Confronting a military squad with a gun is hazardous to one's health.

and the victim gets blamed, of course, via Zorro's rightwing "talking points."

No condemnation of the coup, no condemnation of kidnapping, no condemnation of the murder of a Congressman, and toady acceptance of the official rightwing story of his death. "He had a gun." Where have we heard that one before?

Well, now we know what the fascists in this country, and that one, will be saying. Thanks for the heads up, Zorro!

If so, then please post it.

And you know you should refrain from the insults. Fair warning.

detained, together with foreign ambassadors, the reported killing of another politician by the military is not presumed to be a normal law enforcement action gone awry

One would think there'd be at least one story out there by now about how he was unarmed, if that were the case.

for you, since you pretend not to understand: When there is a military coup, with the President kidnapped and deported, members of his cabinet and several foreign ambassadors detained, and a number of politicians are missing, the military is not entitled to an automatic presumption of lawful action if they kill someone, armed or not -- because, the military has created a lawless context, and in such lawless context no one can safely assume to know what will happen after arrest. The simple slogan "He was armed" would apply to many situations, and it is pointless to speculate what the actual situation was -- but even if there were open defiance here, I think many people will agree that one has no duty to obey unlawful authority

There is no reliable information contradicting the report that he confronted the military squad with a gun, and you're unwilling to accept that version of events at face value.

I suspect he did indeed have a gun. But brandishing a weapon in the face of superior firepower is never a good negotiating strategy.

And we can assume that a gun would've been planted.

You can't really be arguing that Ham had it coming.

while the Honduran elites are lilly white, just like their counterparts in Venezuela.

that is how it works in the US too.

In democratic countries, the military never has the right to arrest civilian democratic politicians.

The soldiers still had no right to arrest him. Being a leftist politician isn't a crime.

Even if the man wasn't killed(as of yet)there was still no reason for the golpistas to create the conditions under which his(or any OTHER Honduran's) life would be in danger. There is never a justification for a military coup.

The Congress should have just let the vote happen.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (CNN) -- The military arrested Honduras President Jose Manuel Zelaya on Sunday morning, the same day he vowed to follow through with a referendum that the country's Supreme Court had ruled illegal, local media reported.

The president was arrested at his residence and transported aboard a military plane to an unknown destination, the newspaper La Prensa reported.

Military soldiers were on the street around the capital, but there was no reported unrest, according to Radio America.

CNN could not immediately confirm the arrest.

Zelaya, a leftist elected in 2005, has found himself pitted against the other branches of government and military leaders over the issue of Sunday's planned referendum. It would ask voters to place a measure on November's ballot allowing the formation of a constitutional assembly that could modify the nation's charter to allow the president to run for another term.
***
more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/28/honduras.president.arrested/index.html




See post 4 above for interpretation. CNN seems to have done a slightly better job than the BBC -- read down for more details.

ROBERTO SUAZO CORDOVA
President of Honduras

Honduras was the original "Banana Republic" -- its history inextricably intertwined with that of the US-based United Fruit Company, but in 1979, when Anastasio Somoza was overthrown in Nicaragua, Honduras got a new nickname -- "The Pentagon Republic". In 1978 Honduras received $16.2 million in US aid. By 1985, it was getting $231 million, primarily because President Suazo Cordova, working with the US Ambassador and the Honduran military, allowed Honduras to become a training center for U.S. funded Nicaraguan contras. General Alvarez assisted in training programs and founded a special "hit squad", the Cobras. Victims of the Cobras were stripped, bound, thrown into pits, and tortured. The Reagan Administration claimed ignorance of these human rights violations, but US advisors have admitted knowledge. Alvarez who made enemies among his troops because he pocketed U.S. aid and because he belonged to the "Moonies", a far-right South Korean religious cult, was overthrown by the military in 1984. Suazo's ties to Alvarez cost him his bid in the next election, but death squad activity and US aid to Honduras continued. Many high ranking government and military personnel during and after Suazo's term were drug traffickers, and although the US government denies knowledge of this, there is evidence to the contrary. In fact, the US embassy was renting space from known drug dealers.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

http://usuarios.lycos.es.nyud.net:8090/alpheratz/suazo.jpg http://www.atlaswords.com.nyud.net:8090/IMAGES%2059/Roberto%20Suazo%20Cordoba%201982%20-%201984.JPG http://www.hondudiario.com.nyud.net:8090/img/felicidades_roberto_suazo_cordova.jpg

ROBERTO SUAZO CORDOVA
Honduran right-wing dictator

"In Honduras, General Humberto Ragalado Hernandez, was trained at the SOA at the same time that he was linked to Columbian drug cartels, and the highest ranking officers in the Honduran Death Squad were trained at SOA as well."

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/SOA.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) One of the most feared death squads in all of Latin America is founded by Honduran SOA graduates with the help of Argentine neo-Nazis also from the SOA.

(2) In the 1990s, death squad criminals return to the SOA to inspire and train others.

The gory details �

" a course in intelligence at the school of the Americas a lot of videos which showed the type of interrogation and torture they used in Vietnam. � Although many people refuse to accept it, all this is organized by the U.S. government." � José Valle, graduate of the SOA, admitted torturer, member of Battalion 316, Inside the School of Assassins, video

Torturing was "a job, something I did to give food to my kids" � Valle, Baltimore Sun, 6/11/95

"The intelligence unit, known as Battalion 316, used shock and suffocation as devices in interrogations. Prisoners often were kept naked and, when no longer useful, killed and buried in unmarked graves. Newly declassified documents and other sources show that the CIA and the U.S. Embassy knew of numerous crimes, including murder and torture, yet continued to support Battalion 316 and collaborate with its leaders." � Baltimore Sun, 6/11/95

Battalion 316 is founded in the early eighties by General Luis Alonso Discua�graduated from the SOA three times, in 1967, 1972, and 1982�while the nation is under the repressive dictatorship of SOA graduate General Policarpo Paz García, inducted into the SOA "Hall of Fame" in 1988. Also inducted in 1988 is General Humberto Regalado Hernández�a four-time graduate in the late sixties and seventies�who, as chief of Honduran armed forces, refuses to take action against soldiers involved in Battalion 316 death squad activity, and indeed appears to cover-up at least some of that activity. � Americas Watch reports on Honduras, 1987 and 1994

Fresh from their own "Dirty War", Argentine SOA graduates such as Colonel Mario Davico move to Honduras in the early 1980s to teach Batalion 316 techniques such as arbitrary detention, torture, extrajudicial executions, and methods of disposing of the bodies of the victims. � Americas Watch, 1994

The return �

One year after he enters the SOA Hall of Fame, fellow officers accuse Regalado Hernández of misappropriating millions of dollars in U.S. military aid. Officers contend that equipment provided through U.S. military assistance was regularly sold to unit commanders by Regalado, who then deposited the money in a "special account". Military assistance supplies sold by Regalado ranged from batteries to tires to gasoline. Meanwhile, the Reagan administration�in 1988, the year Regalado is inducted into the SOA Hall of Fame�suspects Regalado of providing protection to Colombian drug traffickers living in Honduras. Regalado's half-brother (SOA graduate Rigoberto Regalado Lara, convicted and imprisoned in the U.S. on drug trafficking charges) tells authorities that his supplier was a close friend of General Regalado Hernández. � New York Times, 10/15/89

In 1983, several key members of Battalion 316 somehow find time in their busy schedules of organizing death squad activity for renewed training at the SOA, including Lieutenant Colonel Luis Alonso Villatoro Villeda (trained in "Administration", then commander of Battalion 316 from 1986-1988), Second Lieutenant Ramón Mejia (in charge of transporting kidnap victims from various parts of Honduras to Tegucigalpa, one of the two officers most involved in torture, interrogation and murder) and General Walter López Reyes.� Americas Watch, 1987 and 1994

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lormand/poli/soa/honduras.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3941093#3942405


a person that claims to be living in the country ?


oh because
the person must be a troll :eyes:

disonance much ....lately ?

The impact of your attempted cocky remark is lessened if you misspell the word you hope will burn someone. It's "dissonance."

I just love it when you do that! :)

The president of Honduras is not forcing anybody to re-elect him but the military is forcing everybody to obey them.

Golpe de Estado en Honduras
http://www.proceso.com.mx/noticias_articulo.php?articulo=70087

Lula pide restitución en cargo pte. Honduras, repudia golpe
http://about.reuters.com/dynamic/countrypages/venezuela/1246208484nN28337753.ASP

Presidentes centroamericanos se reúnen para analizar situación de Honduras
http://www.yucatan.com.mx/noticia.asp?cx=99$1410000000$4103758&f=20090628


Translate this one is one of the best:

Honduras: contexto de la crisis política

Otro elemento a considerar en la configuración del conflicto hondureño es la existencia de un movimiento amplio y creciente –integrado por organizaciones indígenas, sindicales, campesinas y estudiantiles–, que hoy por hoy constituye la principal base de apoyo a la creación de un nuevo constituyente, y cuyo respaldo a la presidencia de Zelaya ha sido decisivo en las últimas horas: de manera significativa, el jueves por la tarde, el mandatario arribó a una base de la fuerza aérea hondureña en compañía de cientos de ciudadanos a recuperar el material electoral que se utilizará en la consulta de hoy, y que había sido decomisado por los militares.


http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2009/06/28/index.php?section=opinion&article=002a1edi

I live here...we didn´t have power all morning, no cable, or Internet either.

Oh and you are wrong as to what this is about...you might want to find out what is actually going on instead of what you assume is going on.

living there doesn't mean a balance point of view is achieved. It all depends on the political affiliation of who is posting opinions and desires.

HE WAS IMPEACHED BY CONGRESS...and an arrest warrant issued by the Supreme Court.
He also resigned via a written resignation...which of course he is trying to deny but his signature is right there and YES it is his signature.

was removed following a Supreme Court trial, why was Congress voting today to accept a "resignation"?

See the international media doesn´t cover everything...I was talking about this more than a month ago and so where other Hondurans.
Do some research in the local papers and it will give you more information.
They voted to accept a resignation he wrote on Friday and it was signed and sealed...after that they also voted to affirm an impeachment article against him for treason, theft, fraud, upsurping the constitution, and a few other things.

www.chinaview.cn 2009-06-29 03:26:20 Print

BRASILIA, June 28 (Xinhua) -- The Brazilian government vehemently condemned Sunday's coup in Honduras that removed the president Jose Manuel Zelaya of the Presidential Palace in Tegucigalpa and drove him out of the country.

"Military actions of this type constitute an attack on democracy and do not match the political development in the region. Any question of constitutional order must be settled peacefully through dialogue and within the framework of democratic institutions," said Brazilian Foreign Ministry in a statement.

The Brazilian government affirms its solidarity with the Honduran people and asks that President Zelaya be immediately and unconditionally reinstalled in his functions, according to the statement ...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-06/29/content_11616409.htm

are against Zelaya.

Hannah Strange in Caracas

The President of Honduras was ousted in a military coup yesterday when troops arrested him in his pyjamas and sent him into exile in neighbouring Costa Rica.

The military action against President Zelaya, the country’s most popular President in recent history, raised fears of widespread violence as supporters took to the streets, throwing stones at army lorries and shouting: “Traitors! Traitors!”

President Obama called for calm, saying that “existing tensions and disputes must be resolved peacefully”, and a State Department official said that Mr Zelaya was the only “elected and constitutional” leader of Honduras. The EU condemned the coup, while the Organisation of American States called an emergency meeting at its headquarters in Washington ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6596689.ece

I know none of you have this document but I do...and it says:

ARTICULO 321.- Los servidores del Estado no tiene más facultades que las que expresamente les confiere la ley. Todo acto que ejecuten fuera de la ley es nulo e implica responsabilidad.

ARTICULO 322.- Todo funcionario público al tomar posesión de su cargo prestará la siguiente promesa de ley: "Prometo ser fiel a la República, cumplir y hacer cumplir la Constitución y las leyes".

ARTICULO 323.- Los funcionarios son depositarios de la autoridad, responsables legalmente por su conducta oficial, sujetos a la ley y jamás superiores a ella.

Ningún funcionario o empleado, civil o militar, está obligado a cumplir órdenes ilegales o que impliquen la comisión de delito.

The main points in this...from 321, EVERY ACT THEY EXECUTE OUTSIDE OF THE LAW IS DECLARED NULL AND IMPLIES RESPONSABILITY. From 322, they promise to BE LOYAL TO THE REPUBLIC, AND COMPLY AND ENFORCE THE CONSTITUTION AND ALL OF ITS LAWS". From 323..."THEY ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OFFICIAL CONDUCT, AND THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE LAWS AND WILL NEVER BE ABOVE THE LAW".

Our Ex-President VIOLATED THE LAWS OF HIS COUNTRY...and tried to turn us into a communist country much like what happened in VENEZUELA.

I am sure none of you would be against this if someone tried to convert the UNITED STATES into a communist country like CUBA. What would happen if your president broke the laws of the CONSTITUTION? Would you still feel sorry for him?

Don't feel sorry for this criminal who tried to OPRESS his country, Honduras is a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, and we will stay that way and defend our constitution. VIVA HONDURAS!!!

and will hold an urgent meeting of the Permanent Council at 12:00PM EDT ...

Military Coup Underway in Honduras Print E-mail
Written by Center for International Policy
Sunday, 28 June 2009
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1929/1/

removed Zelaya to Costa Rica, the Supreme Court announced they had authorized his arrest, the Congress said he had resigned, voted to accept his resignation, and then later voted again to remove him from office -- BUT -- the Constitutional process for removal of the President in Honduras seems to be (1) the Congress votes to impeach and then (2) there is a trial before the Supreme Court

Meanwhile, there's a military curfew, cabinet officials and ambassadors are detained, and various politicians disappear

because either the Supreme Court can authorize his removal or the Congress..Congress voted yesterday at 7 in a closed session to remove him and the Supreme Court signed the arrest order at 6am this morning.

States that do that aren't democracies, you know.

By PAUL KIERNAN in Tegucigalpa and JOSE DE CORDOBA in Mexico City

... "I was awakened by shots, and the yells of my guards, who resisted for about 20 minutes," Mr. Zelaya told a news conference at the San Jose airport in Costa Rica. "I came out in my pajamas, I'm still in my pajamas….when they came in, they pointed their guns at me and told me they would shoot if I didn't put down my cell phone."

Mr. Zelaya called the action a kidnapping, and said he was still president of Honduras.

The Honduran Congress named its leader, Roberto Micheletti, to replace President Manuel Zelaya following his military ouster and forced exile in Costa Rica. A resolution read on the floor of Congress accuses Mr. Zelaya of "manifest irregular conduct" and "putting in present danger the state of law," a reference to his refusal to obey a Supreme Court ruling against holding a constitutional referendum.

By a show of hands, the Congress voted on Sunday to remove Mr. Zelaya, and appointed Mr. Micheletti as the new chief executive, as is mandated by the constitution. Congress earlier had approved a supposed letter of resignation from Mr. Zelaya, but he said the document was false ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124619401378065339.html?mod=rss_com_mostcommentart

He was arrested this morning and it is a legal constitutional process. The arrest order was sworn out by the Supreme Court of Honduras and it is for treason and for abuse of power...it is more than term limits...he wanted unlimited perpetuation in power...but it is far beyond that. It was allowing a foreign military to invade our borders...it was refusing to pay workers if they didn´t sell their soul to him over this...refusing treatment to the sick in hospitals if they didn´t sign, ect. The referendum or the reports right now show that he had over half a million ballots already stuffed in those boxes with a yes marked off...it was a SCAM to steal power permenently.

power permanently"? Even if, as you allege--on the basis of unspecified "reports"--that ballots were pre-marked, what effect would it have? It would merely start a discussion of the Constitution. The vote has no legal force.

Arresting the president, in the middle of the night--dragging him out, flying him to another country--does not strike me as "a legal constitutional process." Legal means LAW. If they have some kind of case against Zelaya (for holding a VOTE!), why don't they prosecute him, and see if it holds up? Their charges all sound like typical trumped up rightwing coupster bullshit to me.

And what on earth are you talking about--"allowing a foreign military to invade our borders"? The U.S. military, the CIA and John Negroponte and his hired death squads invaded you long ago. Honduras is a subject country--a "lily pad" in U.S. military (and Rumsfeldian) parlance--for launching aggression against others. That is what Honduras is most famous for. So who is invading you now, worse than you have been invaded before?

It is a process to destroy the constitution...is that what you want for the US? To throw out the constitution?

it wasn't dictated by a single person but by a group of people and the same way it can be change.

It can be ammended by the CONGRESS not reformed to change the government from a Constitutional Republic to an Authoritarian regime. WE already have a constitution and it is illegal to reform it...how hard is it for you to respect our laws and our people and leave this country alone? That is unless you want Hondurans telling you what to do with your president and laws.

but you know,here we don't send the military out to depose a person responsible for thousands of deaths overseas.

has the US ever impeached and removed a president in your lifetime?

And if the people were against Zelaya, the Honduran Army would not be in the streets of Tegucigalpa teargassing the people.

in any way he chooses to. Does that change your perspective a bit? Furthermore it is ILLEGAL to try to throw out the constitution of the government or even to start the process...what part of not even the president is above the law is hard to understand? Would you have wanted Bush to just elect to throw out the constitution and be damned with the law? I doubt it.
IT was hardly the middle of the night ..he was arrested at 6 am.
They could prosecute him but there was an agreement to allow him to leave and seek asylum...if he comes back he will be arrested and executed.

These 35 words - "Do you think that the November 2009 general elections should include ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3942632&mesg_id=3943570

CONSTITUCION... ARTICULO 102.- Ningún hondureño podrá ser expatriado ni entregado por las autoridades a un Estado extranjero ...

the oligarchy's Kool-Aid. I'm sure you personally witnessed all of these thing, eh? :sarcasm:

Or did you read them in the (right-wing controlled) newspapers and the (right-wing controlled) media?

The real reason appears to be that he's veered too far to the left for the ruling classes and must be replaced by the School of the Americas trained fascist military dictator...

Our media isn´t controlled by any government...
Furthermore he was replaced by a LIBERAL...Roberto Micheletti, the speaker of the House...elections will occur in November and Micheletti is not eligible to run for the presidency...the candidates are Elvin Santos...liberal who also was for the removal..and btw the former vice president under Zelaya who resigned in disgust with the president over his illegal activities...and Porferio Lobo.

Neo Liberal means Libertarian

That is the biggest piece of BS yet...Zelaya was a LIBERAL.

Liberales latinoamericanos claman contra Chávez
http://www.diariolasamericas.com/news.php?nid=32045


http://www.cadal.org/institucional/nota.asp?id_nota=798

According to you we should be forced to swallow Chavez extremist government regime whether we like it or not right? To damn be with the laws according to you...

See post #223

like many latin american countries who suffer military coups, leftist are afraid that old pieces of history will repeat them selves. So it is a justified concern on Chavez part.

He was threatening us before his ambassador was removed. Chavez has no room speaking about coups let him mind his own business...invading Honduras is not it...believe me this might be a small country but 8 million people with weapons will not be fun...we have fully automatic weapons here as in AK 47s and M 16s and Uzis.

for allowing death squads and murderers operate in their territory.
Venezuela has russian airplanes but they are not so stupid to start and invasion when they know corporate sector in the US are waiting to start a war on them.

Tell me and this is a direct question would you support Chavez invading a foreign country for policies that are internal and have no effect on what his government does? Do you think interventionism is ok?

HE directly said he is GOING To invade Honduras.

I'm sorry, but you just don't see other countries forcibly rounding up diplomats from other countries, frog-marching them to the airport, and then forcing them out of the country. That just doesn't happen. That's not how countries expel diplomats. That you're defending these actions speaks volumes about you.

it's like Haiti all over again.

It's perfectly obvious what side you're on:

The side that murdered Salvadoran nuns and Chilean songwriters.

This is the article posted by struggle4progress, breaking the abhorrent news that the ONLY leftist candidate has been assassinated in Honduras.

This article contains a comment about the "Liberal" Party:

Honduran Military Assassinates Leftist Presidential Candidate
Posted by Kristin Bricker - June 28, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Congressman Cesar Ham Was a Zelaya Ally and Organizer of the Opinion Poll on a New Constitution



Cesar Ham, presidential candidate and the head of Honduras' only registered leftist political party, the Democratic Unification of Honduras, is dead. He was killed by a squad of soldiers who arrived at his home this morning to arrest him.

The military has rounded up many of Zelaya's allies within the government. Chancellor Patricia Rodas remains kidnapped.

Honduran police confirmed Ham's death to Notimex. The official version of events, as reported by Notimex, is that Ham confronted the military squad that came to his house with a gun, "and therefore he had to be killed."

Despite being from a different party, Ham was a close ally of ousted President Manuel Zelaya. Ham's party, the Democratic Unification of Honduras, is Honduras' only registered leftist party. Zelaya is from the conservative Liberal Party; he became a populist leftist after being elected.

Ham, at the time of his assassination, was a member of Congress. He wholeheartedly supported President Zelaya's initiative to form a constitutional convention to write a new Constitution, and he was one of the main organizers of today's thwarted opinion poll that would have gauged public opinion on forming a constitutional convention.

Ham has come under fire this year from fellow members of Congress, with help from Honduras' right-wing media. Gregorio Baca, a dissident member of Ham's party who opposed an alliance with Zelaya, accused Ham of receiving "millions of dollars" from President Zelaya in exchange for his support of a referendum on a new constitutional convention. Right-wing newspaper El Heraldo accused Ham and his deputy Misael Castro of embezzling government money to pay for luxury cars. Neither of the accusations were ever verified by a court of law.

This past March the Democratic Unification party chose him as its presidential candidate by a vote of 104-4. The coup plotters had previously announced that the November 2009 elections would go on as planned. Ham's assassination means that the only leftist candidate in the upcoming elections is now dead.

More:
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/kristin-bricker/2009/06/honduran-military-assassinates-leftist-presidential-candidate

Remember ZElaya is a Liberal...so is Micheletti.

So was Carlos Andres Perez when he massacred workers in the streets of Caracas.

"Ah but I've grown older and wiser, and that's why I'm turning you in,
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a Liberal"
-Phil Ochs

assemblies. Here is some background:

____________

President Zelaya of HOnduras Has Just Been Kidnapped.

By Eva Golinger (evagolinger@hotmail.com or evagolinger@gmail.com )
28 June 2009

Caracas, Venezuela - The text message that beeped on my cell phone this morning read “Alert, Zelaya has been kidnapped, coup d’etat underway in Honduras, spread the word.” It’s a rude awakening for a Sunday morning, especially for the millions of Hondurans that were preparing to exercise their sacred right to vote today for the first time on a consultative referendum concerning the future convening of a constitutional assembly to reform the constitution. Supposedly at the center of the controversary is today’s scheduled referendum, which is not a binding vote but merely an opinion poll to determine whether or not a majority of Hondurans desire to eventually enter into a process to modify their constitution.


Such an initiative has never taken place in the Central American nation, which has a very limited constitution that allows minimal participation by the people of Honduras in their political processes. The current constitution, written in 1982 during the height of the Reagan Administration’s dirty war in Central America, was designed to ensure those in power, both economic and political, would retain it with little interference from the people. Zelaya, elected in November 2005 on the platform of Honduras’ Liberal Party, had proposed the opinion poll be conducted to determine if a majority of citizens agreed that constitutional reform was necessary. He was backed by a majority of labor unions and social movements in the country. If the poll had occured, depending on the results, a referendum would have been conducted during the upcoming elections in November to vote on convening a constitutional assembly. Nevertheless, today’s scheduled poll was not binding by law.


In fact, several days before the poll was to occur, Honduras’ Supreme Court ruled it illegal, upon request by the Congress, both of which are led by anti-Zelaya majorities and members of the ultra-conservative party, National Party of Honduras (PNH). This move led to massive protests in the streets in favor of President Zelaya. On June 24, the president fired the head of the high military command, General Romeo Vásquez, after he refused to allow the military to distribute the electoral material for Sunday’s elections. General Romeo Vásquez held the material under tight military control, refusing to release it even to the president’s followers, stating that the scheduled referendum had been determined illegal by the Supreme Court and therefore he could not comply with the president’s order. As in the Unted States, the president of Honduras is Commander in Chief and has the final say on the military’s actions, and so he ordered the General’s removal. The Minister of Defense, Angel Edmundo Orellana, also resigned in response to this increasingly tense situation.

...several days before the poll was to occur, Honduras’ Supreme Court ruled it illegal, upon request by the Congress, both of which are led by anti-Zelaya majorities and members of the ultra-conservative party, National Party of Honduras (PNH). This move led to massive protests in the streets in favor of President Zelaya. (MORE)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3942713

-------------------------------

Please get informed before you summarize a situation based on corpo/fascist 'news' reports. I would say that the military arresting the elected president is "rule by decree." The president calling for an advisory vote on something is not. The first is fascism. The second is democracy. Why would holding a vote prompt the arrest of a president? A VOTE! Not a crime. Not corruption. Not treason. Worth thinking about--rather than just accepting what the corpo/fascist press says.

------------------------------

The last business described above--a far rightwing Supreme Court interfering in an orderly election--sounds hauntingly familiar.

Who is acting outside of constitutional norms in Honduras?

Mel Zelaya has several times ignored the opinion of the congress and the supreme court. Honduras has a three branch government three equal but separate branches none of which has more power than the other three. The President has pushed to install a vote that both other branches declared Illegal, therefore the Supreme court declared that he should be removed from power and the congress seconded the decision of the supreme court. This is a constitutional democracy in action.

Welcome aboard.

At least someone who doesn´t live here gets it...everyone else seems to think that we are a military run government and fail to understand he was impeached.

weapons are involved.
You complain about my tone but you were very rude when you tried to call me a troll and exactly how do you want the tone of someone to be when you dismiss them regardless of the fact that the person lives in the country.

sarah palin, john boner, george w. bush, bill o'reily, DICK cheney...

All live in this country -- and they're bat-shit crazy...and wrong.

Just 'cause you "live there" don't mean you know what's really going on...

You've just had a military coup by a FUCKING GENERAL, political assassination and all to benefit the right-wing oligarch -- to keep the people down.

What part of banana republic don't you understand???

Read it get back to me when you figure out that General Vasquez is not in power...until then you are no more knowlegable about Honduras than the redneck hicks from the KKK.

The speaker of the Congress is in power...he wrote the cosntitution or was one of the writers to be more correct and the US State department already admitted that Zelaya violated that constitution and was removed by other instutions such as the Honduran Court.

because Cuba has a constitution and nothing has been done outside the constitutional norms.

Here is an important report from a couple of days ago. One important question it raises is: What will the OAS do now--if Zelaya has in truth been arrested by the military? And, what is the OAS delegation that was sent to Honduras doing?

I'm quoting it in its entirety. (It is a "fair use" document.)

-----------------------

Venezuela, ALBA, and OAS Back Honduran President Against Potential Coup

June 26th 2009, by James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com

Merida, June 26th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- The Venezuelan government, the Latin American and Caribbean integration organization, ALBA, and the Organization of American States (OAS) have given their backing to Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, who said recent legal and military challenges to his constitutional reform initiative amount to a coordinated attack against his democratically elected government.

Zelaya has proposed a national referendum on whether to establish a constituent assembly to re-write the nation's constitution. On Wednesday, Zelaya dismissed General Romeo Vasquez and accepted the resignation of Defense Minister Edmundo Orellana, after the two officials disobeyed orders to distribute materials for a national poll on whether to carry out the referendum.

On Thursday, troops deployed around the Honduran Congress and Zelaya's supporters demonstrated in the street, but no violence occurred. The Honduran Supreme Court unanimously decided that General Vasquez must return to his post, arguing that his rights had been violated.

Zelaya said the Supreme Court and the disobedient military officials represent elites who oppose the proposed referendum. "The Court has totally attacked the rule of law by taking away the authority of the president as commander in chief. They have returned to re-live the 1980s, to relive the dictatorship and make the military more powerful than the civil state," said Zelaya.

On Friday, Zelaya and thousands of his supporters recuperated the polling materials that Vasquez had refused to distribute, and have promised to carry out the national poll this Sunday.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez pledged his support for Zelaya against the apparent attempts to destabilize his government. "A coup d'etat is underway in Honduras," said Chavez on national television on Thursday. "It's the bourgeoisie that's trying to block a popular vote. They fear the people," he said.

Chavez said Zelaya "did the right thing" by dismissing General Vasquez, and noted the bloody role of the U.S.-backed Honduran military in subverting democracy and propping up dictatorships in Latin America in the Twentieth Century. "It is part of the reality that we have lived in Latin America and the Caribbean," said Chavez.

The political, economic, and social integration alliance known as ALBA, which Honduras joined as a member last year, as well as the Organization of American States (OAS), also gave their support to Zelaya. The OAS voted to send a special commission to Honduras to investigate this week's events.

Venezuela's ambassador to the OAS, Roy Chaderton, read the ALBA declaration aloud during the OAS's emergency meeting on the crisis in Honduras on Friday. The ALBA countries "manifest our firmest support for the government of , in its just and decided actions to defend the right of the Honduran people to express their sovereign will and advance a process of social transformation in the framework of democratic institutions," he read. "We will mobilize ourselves... in the event of any attempt by the oligarchy to break the democratic and constitutional order of this sister Central American republic."

Chaderton compared the events in Honduras to past coup d'etats against democratically elected leaders, such as Chilean President Salvador Allende in 1973. "This movie is not new, it is a re-run, it already occurred in Venezuela in 2002, it has occurred in Ecuador, in Bolivia, and it is occurring in Honduras," said Chaderton.

Honduras joined the five year old ALBA alliance last year. The nine-member bloc, which is based on the cooperation and national sovereignty of its members, includes the region's most anti-imperialist and socialist governments: Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador.

Over the past ten years, Venezuela, Bolivia, and Ecuador have all re-written their constitutions to strengthen human and environmental rights and national sovereignty. All three new constitutions were approved by the majority of voters in national referendums.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4550

thanks in advance

Chavez supported the Iranian establishment. He probably read it as a CIA coup attempt, a la 1954, when the U.S., Britain and Israel overturned Iran's democracy (because their president had nationalized the oil, as so many other countries have done), by instigating riots, disorder and murderous bombings, to destabilize the country, and then installing the horrible Shah of Iran, who inflicted the Iranian people with 25 years of torture and oppression. (That is why the Iranian people--one of the most progressive in the Middle East--turned to the mullahs.) And I am not at all sure that he would be wrong. The master spies are back in charge now, not the bumbling Bushwhacks. Far subtler techniques of using local discontent to achieve Exxon Mobil's ends. (But then you probably think that Leon Panetta is a "civilian.")

Here are two opposing views on Chavez/Iran at venezuelanalysis.com:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/letter/4538 (defending Chavez's stance on Iran)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/letter/4534 (a cry from an Iranian leftist to Chavez to change his position)

In any case, I don't see the relevance. Honduras is a short boat trip away from Venezuela's big coastal oil fields. A rightwing military coup in Honduras, with that military's history of cooperation in our global corporate predators' darkest schemes and deeds in Latin America, is of prime strategic concern to Venezuela, and to the other countries of Central and South America, especially those with leftist (majorityist) governments (most of them). Iran is on the other side of the world. This is a Latin American issue and vital concern. Whatever you think of Chavez's view of Iran, it is, a) not nearly as blind or hypocritical as the U.S. government's coddling of the sheiks of Araby; and b) not as immediately important to the OAS, ALBA or Venezuela, as a rightwing military coup in Honduras.

HE WAS REMOVED BY HIS OWN PARTY..The Liberal party removed him from office.

No one should be butting into an internal process which is being played out via the constitutional process.

that trained your new dictator...

Damn straight we're "involved"...

What's so god damn "constitutional" about a military take over???

Telesur had some good coverage and so does the Narcosphere. :hi:

you somehow missed the 100,000 that protested for the removal a few days ago didn´t you?

I get my news from news sources, not from right wingers. :hi:

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/kristin-bricker/2009/06/resistance-and-repression-honduras

while you sit in your house being a judgemental ass when the photos you are showing are from a June 24 protest AGAINST the president...use something more truthful than narconews...lmao.

and a media backed coup. I guess he's in on the conspiracy. :rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jll0OsxxDw

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But a senior Honduran official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity,
said he did not foresee the new government backing down.
He said the country's Congress had appointed a commission Thursday evening to
investigate whether the president's referendum was in line with the
constitution. The commission reported back Sunday afternoon that the
president had violated the constitution, and the Congress voted to remove
him. That procedure is "within the constitution," said the senior
official -- although the coup that occurred hours earlier was not, he
acknowledged.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/06/29/ST2009062901282.html

But, go on digging. It's charming. lol

go out of its way to make sure people knew about it. It was buried on page #2! A lot of people would simply have missed it altogether.

So Zelaya's referendum procedure is "within the constitution." That should be easy to remember.

From the website of SOA Watch:

~snip~
Honduras

"(…) the order was to take everyone: parents, grandparents, kids, wives, everyone. It was very rare that anyone survived after being taken by my battalion. At first the children were abandoned in the park or the marketplace. But then General Alvarez Martinez said ‘These seeds will eventually bear fruit’. So we had to eliminate the children as well." -- SOA graduate who once was a member of a secret death squad in Honduras, Battalion 3-16. Gen. Alvarez Martinez was trained at the SOA. Four of the five ranking Honduran officers who organized death squads as part of Battalion 3-16 also are graduates.

At least 19 key members of Honduran Battalion 3-16 graduated from the SOA. U.S. and Argentine advisors helped establish that death squad battalion around 1980. It operated in secrecy for years, until former members came forward to reveal its clandestine campaign of kidnappings, torture and disappearance. Members of the Battalion trained at the SOA on two, three, and even four separate occasions.

Generals Gustavo Alvarez Martinez and Daniel Bali Castillo took a Joint Operations course at the SOA in 1978, just prior to establishing Battalion 3-16. General Luis Alonso Discua, first commander of the Battalion, took three courses at the SOA. General Juan Lopez Grijalva, second in command of the battalion throughout the early 80s, took three SOA courses. He was also a guest speaker at the SOA in 1991 and 1992, long after an Americas Watch report detailed his involvement with the death squad. General Humberto Regalado Hernandez took four courses at the SOA. As commander of the Honduran Armed Forces in the late 80s, he shielded the Battalion from investigations. He was inducted into the SOA Hall of Fame in 1988.

In one 1982 incident, Battalion members kidnapped six university students. They were taken to the house of SOA graduate Amilcar Zelaya, which several witnesses state was a clandestine prison where many were tortured and killed. There, they were beaten, had rubber hoods placed over their heads until they nearly suffocated, and they were threatened with death. They were released when the father of two students, a government official, pushed for their release. Charges were brought against ten military officials, four of whom were SOA graduates.

http://www.soaw.org/article.php?id=343

~~~~~~~~~~
Battalion 316 (Honduras)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battalion 316 was a Honduran army unit responsible for carrying out of political assassinations and torture of suspected political opponents of the government during the 1980s. Battalion members received training and support from the United States Central Intelligence Agency both in Honduras and at U.S. military bases <1>, as well as from Alfredo Mario Mingolla and other members of the Argentine Batallion 601 (including Ciga Correa, who had collaborated with the Chilean DINA in assassinating General Carlos Prats and had trained, along with Seineldín, the AAA <1>. The Battalion 316 was also trained by Pinochet's Chile <1>.
Colonel Alvarez Martínez of Battalion 316 studied at the Argentine Military College, graduating in 1961 <1>. By the end of 1981, more than 150 Argentine officers were in Honduras <1>. This training operation took the code-name of Operation Charly and used training bases in Lepaterique and Quilalí <1>. The CIA took over from the Argentinians after the Falkland War, although Argentine officers remained active in Honduras until 1984-1986 <1>.

The Argentine Navy's ESMA also sent instructors to Honduras, including Roberto Alfieri González who served in the National Guard of El Salvador as well as in Guatemala and Honduras <1>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion_316

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torture was taught by CIA; Declassified manual details the methods used in Honduras; Agency denials refuted
By Gary Cohn, Ginger Thompson, and mark Matthews, The Baltimore Sun, Monday 27 January 1997, Final Edition

WASHINGTON -- A newly declassified CIA training manual details torture methods used against suspected subversives in Central America during the 1980s, refuting claims by the agency that no such methods were taught there.

"Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual -- 1983" was released Friday in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request filed by The Sun on May 26, 1994.

The CIA also declassified a Vietnam-era training manual called "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation -- July 1963," which also taught torture and is believed by intelligence sources to have been a basis for the 1983 manual.

Torture methods taught in the 1983 manual include stripping suspects naked and keeping them blindfolded. Interrogation rooms should be windowless, dark and soundproof, with no toilet.

"The 'questioning' room is the battlefield upon which the 'questioner' and the subject meet," the 1983 manual states. "However, the 'questioner' has the advantage in that he has total control over the subject and his environment."

~snip~
In The Sun's series, Jose Barrera, a former member of Battalion 316 who said he was taught interrogation methods by U.S. instructors in 1983, recalled using the technique:

"The first thing we would say is that we know your mother, your younger brother. And better you cooperate, because if you don't, we're going to bring them in and rape them and torture them and kill them," Barrera said.

The manual suggests that prisoners be deprived of food and sleep, and made to maintain rigid positions, such as standing at attention for long periods.

Ines Consuelo Murillo, who spent 78 days in Battalion 316's secret jails in 1983, told The Sun that she was given no food or water for days, and that to keep her from sleeping, one of her captors entered her room every 10 minutes and poured water over her head.

Mark Mansfield, a CIA spokesman, declined to comment on the manuals. However, asked about agency policy on the use of force and torture, he referred to Stolz's 1988 testimony before the Senate intelligence committee.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/40/055.html

and everything we have dealth with? It is really easy to judge us sitting in your comfortable home and drinking tea isn´t it? How about coming down here to my house and getting a first hand look...I will prepare the bedroom for you. You might get a very big wake up call...you think that we should be forced to accept a government we do not want and to be damned with what we really want right? How hard is it to understand this person was more unpopular than Bush? Would you have called it a coup if Bush had been impeached? Was it a coup when the governor of California was recalled? However, when Congress and the Supreme Court impeach the president of Honduras simply because you don´t like it you call it a coup.

to kidnap him and send him to Canada...

And kill his allies...

When the people of California were duped into voting in the steroidengroppenfuhrer Aaaanald...

You seem to have a huge block in your brain -- it was a MILITARY TAKE OVER by an SOA trained General...

Typical United Fruit deal...

I feel dirty, even. Yuck.

They don't like Communists... Bat-Shit :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

They like the right-wing Oligarchy...

They don't mind the occasional military coup if it keeps Hugo Chavez away --- Boogida, boogida, boogida! Scary Hugo Chavez.

They don't mind the occasional military death squad if it keeps Fidel Castro away --- Boogida, boogida, boogida! Scary Fidel Castro...

They don't mind the occasional military coup if it keeps big business humming, keeps the workers cowed and the indigenous quiet.

The Business of Honduras is Business after all -- and coups and death squads...soon to come if any resistance is made.

A new Banana republic is born...

n/t.

I don't believe your bullshit story for one minute.

You can't simply assume that the man would be able to rig every single election.

If the people were on your side, Zelaya would simply lose when he sought a second term.

The man isn't the antichrist.

That might be one of the dumbest fucking analogies I have ever seen on DU - and that is quite an accomplishment. I see someone else has already done a pretty good job of pointing out the obvious flaws in your statement, it's unfortunate you need it.

"President Zelaya’s wife, Xiomara Castro de Zelaya, speaking live on Telesur at approximately 10:00am Caracas time, denounced that in early hours of Sunday morning, the soldiers stormed their residence, firing shots throughout the house, beating and then taking the president. 'It was an act of cowardness', said the first lady, referring to the illegal kidnapping occuring during a time when no one would know or react until it was all over. Casto de Zelaya also called for the 'preservation' of her husband’s life, indicating that she herself is unaware of his whereabouts. She claimed their lives are all still in 'serious danger' and made a call for the international community to denounce this illegal coup d’etat and to act rapidly to reinstate constitutional order in the country, which includes the rescue and return of the democratically elected Zelaya." --from the Eva Golinger report

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3942713

"beating and then taking the president"


um, okay, right

Sometimes you have to consider priorities.

It wasn't show and tell time, after all.

The First Lady was outside of the capital when Mel was arrested, therefore is a witness to nothing. She also said that she was in the "monte" (translation brush) in hiding. When she is actually in Mel's very large farm in Catacamas, Olancho. Pretty much trying to look pitiful.

34 years ago and his father and Chinchilla went to prison for one year but were later given a pardon.

my Hoduran ex girlfriend to verify this

Kicking with hope that the people of Honduras can get their referendum and President back.

Oh and he had only four months left in office.

in the streets of Tegucigalpa.

If no one wanted him back you'd have had no reason to stop the referendum, since it obviously would've lost if you're telling the truth.

If no one wanted him back, the junta wouldn't have started blocking all the international news channels.

You can't have it both ways: If the man is reviled, you'd have had nothing to lose by letting the referendum go forward, since it obviously would've lost if Zelaya actually were unpopular.

What you mean by "no one here wants him back" is "no one in MY CLASS wants him back".

Do you have a summer home in Miami?

Honduras president detained, sent to Costa Rica, official says


snip

The Honduran military arrested Zelaya early Sunday morning, the same day he vowed to follow through with a referendum that Honduras' Supreme Court had ruled illegal.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/28/honduras.president.arrested/index.html

I was trying to make sense of your comment. Big mistake! Garbled up rightwing "talking points" is your contribution to this discussion. Entertaining, though. And telling counterpoint to the thoughtful, informative posts of others.

It is a rightwing coup--no question about it. All over a VOTE! What did the man do? He asked for a VOTE--and an advisory vote at that, on forming a Constitutional assembly. It is very, very similar to Venezuela 2002, except that I don't know if the Honduran people can do what the Venezuelan people did--pour out of their hovels in the tens of thousands to peacefully stop the coup and get back their elected president.

This is also from Eva Golinger...

"Reports coming out of Honduras have informed that the public television channel, Canal 8, has been shut down by the coup forces. Just minutes ago, Telesur announced that the military in Honduras is shutting down all electricity throughout the country. Those television and radio stations still transmitting are not reporting the coup d’etat or the kidnapping of President Zelaya, according to Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas. 'Telephones and electricity are being cut off', confirmed Rodas just minutes ago via Telesur. 'The media are showing cartoons and soap operas and are not informing the people of Honduras about what is happening'. The situation is eerily reminiscent of the April 2002 coup d’etat against President Chávez in Venezuela, when the media played a key role by first manipulating information to support the coup and then later blacking out all information when the people began protesting and eventually overcame and defeated the coup forces, rescuing Chávez (who had also been kidnapped by the military) and restoring constitutional order."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3942713

to keep the people at bay this time!

Easy to see how it resembles the other one, when you are aware of what happened before, isn't it?

Keeping the people in the dark disables their reaction time until they have locked up the government.

Both radio news stations are on which is how most people get their news down here, I have been watching the whole thing on 4 different channels. And we only lost electricity for about 3 hours which can happen any day down here.

my brother is an expat living in La Ceiba.

There were also reports soldiers had seized the ambassadors of Venezuela - an ally of Mr Zelaya - Nicaragua and Cuba.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Honduras-President-Manuel-Zelaya-Deposed-And-Exiled-To-Venezuela-Before-Consitutional-Referendum/Article/200906415321924?f=rss

Live on Sky News now.

Prensa Latina link too :

Tegucigalpa, Jun 28 (Prensa Latina) President of Honduras Manuel Zelaya was dragged from his residence and taken to Costa Rica, the son of Zelaya''s secretary told CNN.

Mauricio Valladares said military officers took Zelaya to the Air Force and then took him away from the country.

The international community has expressed its rejection of this coup in Honduras today, on the very same day that for the first time the people was set to participate in a survey on their willingness to convene a National Constituent Assembly to reform the Constitution.

http://www.prensa-latina.cu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95856&Itemid=1

when the world watched the citizens take to the streets and demand "change" from their rulers"

... seems nobody watching really cares eh ?


:sarcasm:

White House denies any involvement.........over your side ?

That's now the LBN ticker on Sky News on TV.

Clearly the shadow government sails along with very little input from more progressive Presidents, it would seem!

June 28th 2009, by James Suggett

Mérida, June 28th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Military personnel kidnapped the ambassadors of Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua in Honduras, along with the Honduran Foreign Relations Minister Patricia Rodas, according to Venezuela’s ambassador to the Organization of American States (OAS), Roy Chaderton.

Chaderton made the announcement just before noon today during an emergency meeting of the OAS in Washington that was convened to respond to the military coup d’etat underway in the Honduras.

“Excuse the interruption, it is an urgent matter. I have just received information in this moment that the ambassadors of Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela,and Foreign Relations Minister Patricia Rodas have been kidnapped by a group ofhooded military agents,” said Chaderton.

Rodas confirmed the kidnapping in a hurried phone call to the Caracas-based television channel Telesur as the kidnapping was underway, according to Telesur ...

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4556

Minister Patricia Rodas.

Hope that has been corrected by now.

Thanks for the information on the emergency OAS meeting in Washington.

arrest them.

:hi:

Source: Eva Golinger

President Zelaya of HOnduras Has Just Been Kidnapped.

By Eva Golinger (evagolinger@hotmail.com or evagolinger@gmail.com)
28 June 2009

Caracas, Venezuela - The text message that beeped on my cell phone this morning read “Alert, Zelaya has been kidnapped, coup d’etat underway in Honduras, spread the word.” It’s a rude awakening for a Sunday morning, especially for the millions of Hondurans that were preparing to exercise their sacred right to vote today for the first time on a consultative referendum concerning the future convening of a constitutional assembly to reform the constitution. Supposedly at the center of the controversary is today’s scheduled referendum, which is not a binding vote but merely an opinion poll to determine whether or not a majority of Hondurans desire to eventually enter into a process to modify their constitution.


Such an initiative has never taken place in the Central American nation, which has a very limited constitution that allows minimal participation by the people of Honduras in their political processes. The current constitution, written in 1982 during the height of the Reagan Administration’s dirty war in Central America, was designed to ensure those in power, both economic and political, would retain it with little interference from the people. Zelaya, elected in November 2005 on the platform of Honduras’ Liberal Party, had proposed the opinion poll be conducted to determine if a majority of citizens agreed that constitutional reform was necessary. He was backed by a majority of labor unions and social movements in the country. If the poll had occured, depending on the results, a referendum would have been conducted during the upcoming elections in November to vote on convening a constitutional assembly. Nevertheless, today’s scheduled poll was not binding by law.


In fact, several days before the poll was to occur, Honduras’ Supreme Court ruled it illegal, upon request by the Congress, both of which are led by anti-Zelaya majorities and members of the ultra-conservative party, National Party of Honduras (PNH). This move led to massive protests in the streets in favor of President Zelaya. On June 24, the president fired the head of the high military command, General Romeo Vásquez, after he refused to allow the military to distribute the electoral material for Sunday’s elections. General Romeo Vásquez held the material under tight military control, refusing to release it even to the president’s followers, stating that the scheduled referendum had been determined illegal by the Supreme Court and therefore he could not comply with the president’s order. As in the Unted States, the president of Honduras is Commander in Chief and has the final say on the military’s actions, and so he ordered the General’s removal. The Minister of Defense, Angel Edmundo Orellana, also resigned in response to this increasingly tense situation.

But the following day, Honduras’ Supreme Court reinstated General Romeo Vásquez to the high military command, ruling his firing as “unconstitutional’. Thousands poured into the streets of Honduras’ capital, Tegucigalpa, showing support for President Zelaya and evidencing their determination to ensure Sunday’s non-binding referendum would take place. On Friday, the president and a group of hundreds of supporters, marched to the nearby air base to collect the electoral material that had been previously held by the military. That evening, Zelaya gave a national press conference along with a group of politicians from different political parties and social movements, calling for unity and peace in the country.


As of Saturday, the situation in Honduras was reported as calm. But early Sunday morning, a group of approximately 60 armed soldiers entered the presidential residence and took Zelaya hostage. After several hours of confusion, reports surfaced claiming the president had been taken to a nearby air force base and flown to neighboring Costa Rica. No images have been seen of the president so far and it is unknown whether or not his life is still endangered.



President Zelaya’s wife, Xiomara Castro de Zelaya, speaking live on Telesur at approximately 10:00am Caracas time, denounced that in early hours of Sunday morning, the soldiers stormed their residence, firing shots throughout the house, beating and then taking the president. “It was an act of cowardness”, said the first lady, referring to the illegal kidnapping occuring during a time when no one would know or react until it was all over. Casto de Zelaya also called for the “preservation” of her husband’s life, indicating that she herself is unaware of his whereabouts. She claimed their lives are all still in “serious danger” and made a call for the international community to denounce this illegal coup d’etat and to act rapidly to reinstate constitutional order in the country, which includes the rescue and return of the democratically elected Zelaya.



Presidents Evo Morales of Bolivia and Hugo Chávez of Venezuela have both made public statements on Sunday morning condeming the coup d’etat in Honduras and calling on the international community to react to ensure democracy is restored and the constitutional president is reinstated. Last Wednesday, June 24, an extraordinary meeting of the member nations of the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA), of which Honduras is a member, was convened in Venezuela to welcome Ecuador, Antigua & Barbados and St. Vincent to its ranks. During the meeting, which was attended by Honduras’ Foreign Minister, Patricia Rodas, a statement was read supporting President Zelaya and condenming any attempts to undermine his mandate and Honduras’ democratic processes.



Reports coming out of Honduras have informed that the public television channel, Canal 8, has been shut down by the coup forces. Just minutes ago, Telesur announced that the military in Honduras is shutting down all electricity throughout the country. Those television and radio stations still transmitting are not reporting the coup d’etat or the kidnapping of President Zelaya, according to Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas. “Telephones and electricity are being cut off”, confirmed Rodas just minutes ago via Telesur. “The media are showing cartoons and soap operas and are not informing the people of Honduras about what is happening”. The situation is eerily reminiscent of the April 2002 coup d’etat against President Chávez in Venezuela, when the media played a key role by first manipulating information to support the coup and then later blacking out all information when the people began protesting and eventually overcame and defeated the coup forces, rescuing Chávez (who had also been kidnapped by the military) and restoring constitutional order.




No link yet.

---

Eva Golinger is a Venezuelano-American attorney, now living in Caracas. She is the author of two books detailing the U.S.'s involvement in the 2002 illegal coup against President Hugo Chavez, "Bush v. Chavez" and Ël Codigo Chavez". I just (11:20 a.m.) received this e-mail from her.

Will this be an isolated incident, or is a new Operation Condor in the works?

They've lived through hell already, haven't they?

Since when is the Liberal party the right wing? What have you been smoking? HE was removed by the LEFT.

We happen to know Honduras has been used as a launchpad to destabilize and terrorize leftists in other countries. Filthy reputation.

It's not hard to understand you've got dirty people in BOTH parties.

The dirty one was Zelaya he has stolen over 50 million lempiras that have disappeared.

here waiting for you to tell us everything we need to know about Honduras, do you?

Your word would carry some weight if you seemed credible, intelligent, and good-hearted.

and your insults are astounding considering you live in the United States and I live in Honduras..so who is credible?
Now perhaps you can try it again

www.laprensa.hn
www.tiempo.hn
www.elheraldo.hn
www.latribuna.hn

www.noti6.com

www.cuartaurna.com

Three different people from Honduras including myself have given you the story on what is going on here and you just dismiss it because you are in love with Chavez and think that we should be forced to accept a dictatorship and a rewriting of our constitution and to be damned with the law..
The invitation is open for you..here is the address to my house
colonia las Brisas Expocentro
Bloque 16 pasaje Kennedy Casa 823
casa de isquina, dos plantas
San Pedro Sula, Cortes, Honduras

Now just let me know when you are coming so that I can arrange to pick you up from the airport and introduce you to the Liberal Congress that removed him for committing crimes.

as if that is the only thing we should consider as proof of your veracity.

Many murdering death squad thugs, who were trained at School of the Americas, live in Honduras. Should we adopt their point of view, as you evidently have?

Get real. You are embarrassing yourself.

You know the 100,000 man protest that went against Zelaya the guy who you say is a liberal but yet you claim liberals are right wingers...funny how that works....lmao...
www.laprensa.hn....read the citizens comments and get back to me...don´t like that paper...well here is another one
www.elheraldo.hn read their comments and the public commentary and get back to me...there are literally THOUSANDS OF COMMENTS against Zelaya and Chavez.
So you think your opinion as an American should be authoritarian over what Hondurans want to do? How about MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS FOR A CHANGE ...clean your own backyard and let us deal with ours.

What's with this "our" shit?

This is the world, babeeeee. Deal with it.

Tell me why it is your business when you do not pay tax here? I didn´t have to revoke my citizenship to the US ...Honduras is an ally with the US and via my marriage to a Honduran I gained automatic citizenship in Honduras.

I live here, you don´t so tell me ms priss all about our laws and constitution that you are so certain you know so much about. Yes I can refer to it as us since I live here, pay tax here, vote here, ect. Oh and I am not a member of either leading political party, but guess what I will be damned if I let Venezuela trapse in and take over power here. You might think it ok for Venezuela to invade the US and take over, but I won´t sit idle while you have a love affair with him and think we should just deal with it.

The events that are happening in Honduras are important to the entire world, and Honduras is a part of the world. As much as you might like it to be your private little corner, that is not the case, and you have to face that.

Let me guess - you met your husband while he was studying in....Georgia?

as if it were your business...so tell me why is it no one else´s business what the US does but it is not our right to tell you to mind your own?
We LIVE HERE...you are not welcome...and we will follow our laws and you should follow yours. Learn something and read our constitution and local papers..has nothing to do with right wing anything...for your information it is LEFTISTS that no longer want him.

The vote was clear 122 members of the very Congress he wanted to disolve.

Read our constitution and laws and get back to me when you do..until then you don´t know one iota about this country and have ZERO knowledge of what the hell you are talking about.

http://www.elheraldo.hn/Especiales/Honduras%20en%20contra%20de%20la%20ilegalidad%20del%2024%20de%20junio%20de%202009/Ediciones/2009/06/29/Noticias/Zelaya-planificaba-disolver-el-Congreso

He planned on disolving Congress and creating a one party one branch system starting today be damned with the results of his fixed election which by the way was prepared by Chavez and flown in a Chavez plane right along with all the cocaine he has been shipping through our little country for a year now.
Here is a copy of our constitution and the LAW of this land that no one NOT even Zelaya the clown was above...oh and he hates AMERICANS especially folks like you...and said so at the OEA reunion not but a few weeks ago.
http://www.honduras.net/honduras_constitution.html

ARTICULO 19.- Ninguna autoridad puede celebrar o ratificar tratados u otorgar concesiones que lesionen la integridad territorial, la soberanía e independencia de la República.

Quien lo haga será juzgado por el delito de traición a la Patria. La responsabilidad en este caso es imprescriptible.

ARTICULO 20.- Cualquier tratado o convención que celebre el Poder Ejecutivo referente al territorio nacional, requerirá la aprobación del Congreso Nacional por votación no menor de tres cuartas partes de la totalidad de sus miembros.
ARTICULO 48.- Se prohíbe a los partidos políticos atentar contra el sistema republicano, democrático y representativo de gobierno.

ARTICULO 186.- Ningún poder ni autoridad puede avocarse causas pendientes ni abrir juicios fenecidos, salvo en causas juzgadas en materia penal y civil que pueden ser revisadas en toda época en favor de los condenados, a pedimento de éstos, de cualquier persona, del ministerio público o de oficio.


Este recurso se interpondrá ante la Corte Suprema de Justicia. La ley reglamentará los casos y la forma de revisión.

ARTICULO 236.- El Presidente de la República y tres designados de la Presidencia, serán electos conjunta y directamente por el pueblo, por simple mayoría de votos. La elección será declarada por el Tribunal Nacional de Elecciones, y en su defecto, por el Congreso Nacional o por la Corte Suprema de Justicia en su caso.


ARTICULO 237.- El período presidencial será de cuatro años y empezará el veintisiete de enero siguiente a la fecha en que se realizó la elección.



ARTICULO 238.- Para ser Presidente de la República o Designado a la Presidencia, se requiere:


1. Ser hondureño por nacimiento;


2. Ser mayor de treinta años;


3. Estar en el goce de los derechos del ciudadano; y,


4. Ser del estado seglar.



ARTICULO 239.- El ciudadano que haya desempeñado la titularidad del Poder Ejecutivo no podrá ser Presidente o Designado.


El que quebrante esta disposición o proponga su reforma, así como aquellos que lo apoyen directa o indirectamente, cesarán de inmediato en el desempeño de sus respectivos cargos, y quedarán inhabilitados por diez años para el ejercicio de toda función pública.

ARTICULO 321.- Los servidores del Estado no tiene más facultades que las que expresamente les confiere la ley. Todo acto que ejecuten fuera de la ley es nulo e implica responsabilidad.



ARTICULO 322.- Todo funcionario público al tomar posesión de su cargo prestará la siguiente promesa de ley: "Prometo ser fiel a la República, cumplir y hacer cumplir la Constitución y las leyes".

ARTICULO 323.- Los funcionarios son depositarios de la autoridad, responsables legalmente por su conducta oficial, sujetos a la ley y jamás superiores a ella.


Ningún funcionario o empleado, civil o militar, está obligado a cumplir órdenes ilegales o que impliquen la comisión de delito.

ARTICULO 324.- Si el servidor público en el ejercicio de su cargo, infringe la ley en perjuicio de particulares, será civil y solidariamente responsable junto con el Estado o con la institución estatal a cuyo servicio se encuentre, sin perjuicio de la acción de repetición que éstos pueden ejercitar contra el servidor responsable, en los casos de culpa o dolo.


La responsabilidad civil no excluye la deducción de las responsabilidades administrativa y penal contra el infractor.

Get back to me when you are done reading our laws...and then try to tell me how it was illegal.

That's very interesting. I would assume the Honduran military? This is too, too rich.

I'm very impressed at your cutting and pasting abilities. I speak a little Spanish, but I'm having trouble finding the law that says punishment for not listening to the right wing means that you get kidnapped and spirited out of the country in the dead of night?

Which one of these fucking laws make it okay to arrest the ambassadors to other countries? Which details the legality of murdering Cesar Ham?

You really should give up, commadre. You're way outgunned here. See, where it concerns Latin America, we aren't going to put any stock in links to right wing sources, or your fantastic tales.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I thought so.

You can call me all the nasty names you want, sistah. Try not to choke on it, hear?

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!!!

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Run for the hills and commit treason? How did I admit that? Are we playing PeeWee Herman?

I'm not a communist. I'm not a patriot, and I'm not a nationalist. I am a socialist and damned proud of it. It's not an opinion I adopted from anyone, it's one that I adopted from living in the world. Not as an American, but as a human being.

I repeat, you're outgunned. I feel very sorry for you.

Your position as the wife of a member of the same military who were the architects of this coup, does not add to your credibility. You're better off continuing with the right wing links. Or you could change your pseudonym and try again...

HE wasn´t a member of any coup...no coups occurred during that time so an apology is in order by you for your derogatory lies about things you have no clue about oh and no you are a communist who is in bed with Chavez and think he is God and should be allowed to invade any country he damn well pleases regardless...yet you do not respect laws yourself...you don´t give a damn about law. No you aren´t a communist you are a lawbreaking authoritarian dictator that could not give a rat about the will of the people.

I will wait and see...also if you shoot at the cops don´t be surprised when they shoot back...

I speak more than a little Spanish mi querida yo soy fluida en la lengua española venga a Honduras y habla sus estupideses aquí ahí veremos quien tiene la razón y quien no.

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I see your true colors shining through!

I must say, it was very easy to get you to reveal your nature. It was almost effortless. You're not very good at this, are you?