Insurers aim to save from overseas medical tourism

Source: USA Today

Elizabeth Kunz left her dentist's office this spring with a mouth full of problems and no way to pay for them.
The South Carolina resident went out of her way, literally, to find a solution, which turned out to be in Central America. Her trip to the tropics is part of a health insurance experiment for trimming medical costs: overseas care.

As Washington searches for ways to tame the country's escalating health care costs, more insurers are offering networks of surgeons and dentists in places like India and Costa Rica, where costs can be as much as 80% less than in America.

Until recently, most Americans traveling abroad for cheaper non-emergency medical care were either uninsured or wealthy. But the profile of medical tourists is changing. Now, they are more likely to be people covered by private insurers, which are looking to keep costs from spiraling out of control.

The four largest commercial U.S. health insurers — with enrollments totaling nearly 100 million people — have either launched pilot programs offering overseas travel or explored it. Several smaller insurers and brokers also have introduced travel options for hundreds of employers around the country.



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-08-22-medical-tourism_N.htm

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Why the hell don't we hear about this? I'm so sick of the stories of Canadians and others from countries with "socialized medicine" having to come to the U.S. for treatment as spun by the RW spinmeisters. Why don't we hear about Americans forced to go to what some would consider "third world" countries for affordable medical treatment?

Deserves many more...

about competing med centers in Malaysia. One person said that the could get great care for 60% of what they would pay for

the greatest medical care in the world! followed with chant USA USA USA USA


:puke:

have to go to Sierra Leone". . .

they pay for him and a companion to fly round trip to india ,have an operation, and stay in a first class hotel.

and then tell your insurance company to take a hike? It would probably be cheaper than paying their premiums.

it may be that insurance companies can offer policies that cover only emergency care and leave you on your own for routine checkups, annual mammograms, ett. and planned surgeries that can be performed overseas.

When you have to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. They call that EMERGENCY CARE. So what do they call it when you'll die if don't have a doctor meet you at the door? Is that the Mega Platinum Executive Diamond Membership or what?

however that's spelled.
Nearly killed her.

in India?

Idiots.

get surgery.

our medical system is broken

They haven't used the World Health Organizations ICD-9 codes as a secret language known only to the priesthood of billing clerks. In other countries, they just write down some words on the bill that says what medical service you got. I know it sounds horribly backwards, but it seems to work. Just like they seem to get mail delivered to the right address, even though the address isn't written in English.

... unbelievable.

Video and text:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/21/60minutes/main689998.shtml

Sept. 4, 2005
Vacation, Adventure And Surgery?
Elective Surgeries By World-Class Doctors At Third-World Prices


(CBS) This summer, millions headed out to foreign lands for vacation, adventure, tourism, or just a beautiful beach.

But how about hip surgery or a multiple bypass or a facelift?

A growing number of tourists are doing just that, combining holidays with health care, and that's because a growing number of countries are offering first-rate medical care at Third-World prices. Many of these medical tourists can't afford health care at home (the 40 million uninsured Americans, for example). Others are going for procedures not covered by their insurance: cosmetic surgery or infertility treatment, for example.

And as Correspondent Bob Simon reported last spring, the hospitals in these faraway countries are glad to have these medical tourists. In fact, they are courting their business, trying to get more people to outsource their own health care.
Thailand is an exotic vacation spot known for its Buddhas, its beaches, its brothels, and the bustle of Bangkok.

But for people needing medical care, it’s known increasingly for Bumrungrad Hospital, a luxurious place that claims to have more foreign patients than any other hospital in the world. It’s like a United Nations of patients here, and they’re cared for by more than 500 doctors, most with international training.

The hospital has state-of-the-art technology, and here’s the clincher: the price. Treatment here costs about one-eighth what it does in the United States. It's the No. 1 international hospital in the world.

more...

And what if you don't fly? And what if you can't leave because of responsibilities. America really sucks at the moment. More than ever.

Pullin teeth and slingin snake oil around these parts. Always hear about all the H1 workers coming in. Someone needs to set up some H1 dental centers. But of course they probably have some price floors set for dental procedures anyway. Wouldn't want to disturb the "free market".

Having moral objections to the US health care system, I'd be happy to get a vacation to a place like South Korea, the UK or India and get surgery for 30-90% less than they charge in the US at the same time. You can get a multi week vacation, surgery and great follow up in virtually every country on earth for less than the surgery itself in the US.

Imagine the fears going on in the minds of xenophobic repugs. I'll be hitting them HARD with visions of 'furriner' docs mucking about in their chests...triple bypass surgery in plague-ridden 3rd-world hospitals :evilgrin:

Insurance co's have totally "jumped the shark".

Main Entry: 1ab·surd
Pronunciation: \əb-ˈsərd, -ˈzərd\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French absurde, from Latin absurdus, from ab- + surdus deaf, stupid
Date: 1557
1 : ridiculously unreasonable, unsound, or incongruous <an absurd argument>
2 : having no rational or orderly relationship to human life : meaningless <an absurd universe>; also : lacking order or value <an absurd existence>
3 : dealing with the absurd or with absurdism <absurd theater>

— ab·surd·ly adverb

— ab·surd·ness noun

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/absurd

----------------------------

jump the shark
The precise moment when you know a program, band, actor, politician, or other public figure has taken a turn for the worse, gone downhill, become irreversibly bad, is unredeemable, etc.; the moment you realize decay has set in.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump+the+shark

I hope the people screaming "But we have the best medical care in the WORLD!" read this article. Not only are the insurance companies tacitly admitting the falsehood, now they're trying to profit from it—collecting your high American-dollar premiums while paying out for care at lower cost to them.

The second irony in the story is that the increased competition (of low-cost care in other countries) is now triggering providers here to lower their prices. Oh, my head.

:thumbsup:

:applause:

"... its Buddhas, its beaches, its brothels, and the bustle of Bangkok."

:smoke:

:spray:

got a new front tooth this week in TJ the place looks like it has been hit with a depression so poor and very sad.............now lets start buy some blow legal cocaine in Rosorito and get this party started

going to Costa Rica for dental care. My primary care MD is Costa Rican, which really makes it a lot easier to find out who gives quality services in Costa Rica. Sad that I could fly there, stay in a hotel, and get my dental services cheaper than in the US at the dental office down the block.

I bet the public option will only include in-country health care, so I think this will be a way private companies will lower their costs so they can be more competitive with the public option. And they will spin it, "unlike the public option, we will look the world over to find you the most appropriate care" (for them, not for you). Or heck, "Free vacation with every qualifying approved procedure!"

The cost of a hip replacement in India is a fraction of what it is in the United States and, apparently, you get treated like royalty from what I've read. My problem is the idea of being alone in a foreign country with no family around for major surgery. It's absolutely terrifying to me. We hear all about Canadians supposedly coming to the U.S. for treatment, how about stories of Americans being forced to go overseas because of our inhumane health care "system?"

who do you get to sue and how do you recover the damages? this is bogus.

It sounds great to fly somewhere and get health care for 30% of the cost. But when something goes wrong, who are you going to sue? Will they even be able to pay?

don't even allow for medical malpractice suits anywhere near like we do here.

As to whether or not that's part of the reason for their low costs, I would have to call that a "chicken vs. egg" debate.

you are playing the odds....all surgery has some risk to it, even getting your tonsils removed.

that single payer countries have some official recognition of this. If you have malpractice in those places, they probably just fix you back up as best as they can, without a multi-year court battle that is ultimately going to lead to a fat fee for an attorney, a relative pittance for the wronged party, and a gag order keeping the incompetant in business.

We do need some serious reform in the legal consequences of the practice of medicine, if we're really serious about lowering costs.

in the bad old days before the concept of medical malpractice existed, my grandfather went in for some eye surgery due to an industrial accident (no OSHA or workmen's comp). He went in for surgery and the surgeon operated on the wrong eye, leaving him totally blind. My grandparents were destitute during the Great Depression due to the loss of earnings of the family breadwinner. My grandmother starved, had a nervous breakdown and ended up in a state mental institution where she got electroshocked. My mother ended up in a foster home. We don't know what happened to my grandfather. We think he was taken in by his sisters in New York.

My husband went in for bariatric surgery in a top 10 hospital. The surgeon was world renowned, everyone in the area knows him. (We think a resident acutally did the procedure). It went terribly wrong. The surgeon lost control of the laproscopic knife and it slashed through his abdominal cavity. It nicked the esophagus, slashed up the colon, liver, stomach and abdominal wall (leaving multiple hernias), He managed to hit the spleen so my husband had to have his spleen removed. My husband almost died from that surgery. When my husband went in for round 2 of that surgery (with a different surgeon), they had to remove 85% of the stomach. My husband was 15 minutes from death in that surgery. That second surgery was a real tour de force and a credit to surgeon #2.

My husband chose not to sue surgeon #1 because his mom was an old time nurse who said people would lie (which they probably would) and because my husband isn't the fighting type. So he walked away from it. We would have gotten a fair chunk of money from these type of damages.

So, the consequences are: my husband lost a month's worth of wages due to an extended recovery in round 2. For the rest of his life, he has a compromised immune system. That means all of his recovery time for anything will take much longer and he will get much sicker from any infections and recover more slowly from any further operations. Yours truly will receive no extra assistance in terms of an aide to pick up on feeding, caring, driving to doctor's appointments, picking up prescriptions, yadda yadda yadda...I will be the horse that pulls the family cart by myself. Oh yeah, and try and keep a full time job through all this. That extra money would have given me the ability to hire someone to help me, covered copayments, medical necessities and aids that aren't covered by insurance, and covered increased insurance premiums. Well, thank god, that surgeon's insurance policy won't be hit. I suppose we've done our part to keep medical costs low.

When you talk about reform, people are really talking about decreasing the ability of people to bring cases to court and to win judgements. It is hard to bring frivolous cases to court because you have to medically certify the case with a doctor's examination before the attorney can file.

Where the system needs reform is in the oversight of doctors. My husband worked on an IT system that reported doctor sanctions. He could see that statistics. Doctors do not police doctors. There is an omerta of the medical profession. The AMA board is the fox guarding the chicken coop. There are a very few number of doctors that are incompetent but those doctors amount to a lot more malfeasance than most. But they are allowed to practice. The AMA doesn't revoke licenses until the state sanctions the doctors or until their malfeasance has been brought to light by a court. We really need a government office like the GAO that inspects doctors and truly polices them -- separate from the AMA. We cut down on the small number of doctors screwing stuff up and we can see a decrease in malpractice insurance premiums because of decreased payouts.

Reforming medical malpractice will only be implemented in a just fashion when the doctors are policed properly. Any other result will be throwing costs of medical accidents back on the family. My family has been ever so respectful of doctors' incomes and liability both times with devastating results.

to fly to a foreign country for health care? They consider everyone from south of the border as 'Mexicans'. It they went to Costa Rica, it would be the same for them as having a Mexican operate on them?

Some of these people don't even leave their county unless they live on the border of two states.

Go to India? isn't that a country of Moslems?

Perhaps this distrust of the rest of the world could be turned around with the knowledge that their insurance company might send them overseas. Let them distort that.

We need to find more people who have been directed to go out of the country by their insurance company.

Fight fire with fire.

Fuck everything up here and then instead of cleaning up our own mess, we'll just ship "broken people" overseas and fuck everything up over there too.

Not a good solution, anymore than shipping food all over the world is a good solution. It just transfers the expenses, and adds to them mightily with pollution, energy costs, time wasted, etc.

The U.S. Manifest Destiny of health care.


Cher

If they could go to such lengths to make sure that their insured can get the care that they need in another country, why not just make sure that it is affordable enough to get it done here? This is ridiculous. Just make health care available and affordable to all here, but that would make too much sense and cut greatly into our psychotic health-for-profit system.

Several years ago, I worked on the financing of a hospital's (the name of which is mentioned in an earlier post upstream, so to speak) expansion project in Thailand. The express purpose of the expansion and upgrade of the hospital's facilities was to capture some of this overseas medical travel money. In addition to upgraded medical and surgical facilities, the ambiance of the place was majorly improved - suites and a western style food court for example. Last I heard, it was doing very well.

about how our business is going overseas.

I personally have a friend who went to Belgium for a hip resurfacing about 4 years ago because the surgery done there successfully for over a decade, was considered "experimental" here in the US until recently. She said the care was OUTSTANDING and she was home with both hips done, in minimal pain, and able to continue riding her horses.

But it's not socialized medicine as long as an insurance company got to skim some money off the top of the fees.

revelation.

Would be a great counterpoint to the, "We have the best healthcare in the world' crap. As in, "Yes, but if we don't do something about private insurance companies you could be sent overseas for care." Also wouldn't set well as another example of outsourcing American jobs.

:toast:

I wonder if the same people who make money off insurance make it also off airlines and hotels.

so they can get a free vacation?

They better re-think mandating private insurance. Seriously. This is so fucked up.

flights -- such as deep vein thrombosis.

I had dental, 50%, or 80% in mesico.

I may need some implants - maybe 4 but no way can I afford it here. Will do some googleing regarding this. Mexico would be ideal.

Hospitals in Thailand and India that cater to rich foreigners are luxe, with nurses there to tend to your every need.

American hospitals have steadily gotten older and shabbier. Many of the very best teaching hospitals in the U.S. are appallingly dingy. Even my VERY rich friends, who can afford the very best, and were ready to pay for it, found their experience in a top-notch American hospital (for cancer surgery) to be appalling. Nurses didn't answer the call button. The food stank. The room was ancient. We keep hearing how this country has the best medical care in the world, but if you have the money, you may be better off flying to Thailand.

"Blame Canada."

I'm self employed and combine vacation with dental. It's dirt cheap and quality is often just as good if not better. Very easy to find US trained Dentists if you have concerns and lot's of messageboards with expats willing to give recommendations.

for the wonderful health care we have here?

The health insurance companies better make up their minds about who is going where for care. They can't have it both ways.