Ailing Manson Follower Denied Parole

Source: NY Times.com

Susan Atkins, the terminally ill Charles Manson follower who admitted stabbing actress Sharon Tate 40 years ago, lost what was likely to be her last bid for freedom Wednesday.

Atkins, who suffers from brain cancer, slept through most of the four-hour hearing during which her husband-lawyer pleaded for her release and families of victims of the Sharon Tate-Labianca killings urged that she be kept behind bars until she dies.

In a dramatic moment -- one of the few in which Atkins opened her eyes -- Atkins' husband, James Whitehouse, led her through a recitation of the 23rd Psalm, with Atkins concluding in a strong voice, ''My God is an amazing God.''

Debra Tate, sister of the actress who was 8 1/2 months pregnant when she was killed, told the parole commissioners that she would have a 40-year-old nephew if her sister had lived. She said of Atkins, ''I will pray for her soul when she draws her last breath, but until then I think she should remain in this controlled situation.''

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/03/us/AP-US-Manson-Follower.html?_r=1&hp

Atkins testified before a Los Angeles Grand Jury, hoping to avoid the death penalty. She revealed how she held down (the pregnant) Sharon Tate as (Tate) pleaded for her and the baby's life. She recounted how she told Tate, "Look, bitch, I don't care a thing about you. You're going to die and there's nothing you can do about it." To cause more suffering, they held off killing Tate until all others were dead, and then stabbed her repeatedly while she called out for her mother. . . . Just prior to leaving the residence, Atkins wrote "Pig" on the front door in Sharon Tate's blood.

Posted without comment.

i gotta say i hope this chick lives long and suffers greatly..

book by Vincent Bugliosi and Curt Gentry, movie made-for-tv in 1976

Bugliosi is a bit of a blowhard. He was the prosecutor,
but look what he had...

Atkins pleaded not guilty.., but then I think her lawyer
was murdered (dissapeared) after his first appearance in
the case. A couple of police officers is my guess, as that was
never solved . After that I think there was some difficulty
getting representation and Atkins ended up confessing...

Then there was Manson, for although Manson wasn't there, he was SOOOO
obviously too whack-damn dangerous to leave on the street, which
IMHO was the real reason he was found guilty. I'm opposed to convicting
people who have not actually committed a crime, but nobody, including me,
was going to put Manson on the street. No way. A rare case. I was quite ashamed
of myself to discover that there were some people I would lock up whether
or not they were technically guilty. I try to live with it.
Its a wicked world, yes?

As for Bugliosi, he thinks that was his greatest triumph. I'm just so sorry
Vince, to sdvise that even Mr Potatoehead could have gottten convictions in
that case.

Manson directly coordinated at least 8 murders, and directly participated in at least one.

OK, if your momma said so, forbid that I should argue
with anything your momma told you.

Did you follow the Manson trial?

Whether Manson "directly participated" in any murder is a matter of
dispute if not plain doubt. He has never confessed to any such thing,
and whether he participated in some way was a matter of
proof presented to a jury who found him guilty.

As I explained, no one, and I mean NO ONE thought Manson should go free,
whatever he did or didn't do. My point was that Mr. Potatoehead could
have got convictions in that case, irrespective of facts or law.

Surely you weren't there. Yet you still claim Manson "directly coordinated
at least 8 murders, and directly participated ". But to then connect
my remarks concerning Manson to John Gotti simply que up the twilight zone music..

Because basicly, connecting a "fact" you plaininly do not and cannot know to some "person" or
"situation" that has no apparent relation to it is not a form of "thinking" or "argument" it
is a form of demagoguery. I think DUers can do better than that, don't you?

Thank you for you comment.

You implied that because Manson did not wield the knife himself, you were uncomfortable with his conviction. Perhaps you did not state your opinion accurately. I made the comparison to Gotti, because he, like Manson, was responsible for murders he did not personally carry out.

You do know that Manson was implicated in more crimes than just the Tate/LaBianco killings, don't you?

It is thus better to first read my post, so that inferences may
be supported by what is actually written. That would be my logic.
You may, of course, use that logic with my compliments.

Yes, I know, reading can be a pain, sooo many words, and they hurt!
Sympathy, my dear du colleague, but it still really must be done.

Particularly, in my post I do not see where I was expressing
discomfort at Manson's conviction, at all. Indeed I pretty
much made it crystal clear that I was just fine and dandy with
the conviction.

I know I didn't actually SAY "fine and dandy" in my post,
but at least if you had inferred I meant that, instead of its opposite,
it would been supported by something I wrote.
Assuming you follow my logic, that is.

Thanks for the comment.

It's funny how people BELIEVE what Atkins said at the time when it pumps up her evil and pumps up the fear, but also consider her a liar other times.

There's no doubt that Atkins should remain in prison. There's also little doubt that this much mythologized statement of Atkins' is 100% untrue, and largely braggadocio. She embellished her initial jailhouse confession, probably because she was scared shitless, and then embellished the grand jury account, largely at Bugliosi's prodding and due to her own inflated sense of ego. Tex Watson almost certainly killed all the victims in the Tate murders, assisted almost completely by Krenwinkle (who chased down Abigail Folger). Nobody needed to "hold down" Sharon Tate, because she was tied down. It's a ludicrous claim.

The accounts from Watson, Krenwinkle, and Kasabian are largely consistent on this point: after Watson shot Sebring, Atkins stood there paralyzed and slack jawed. It's why Watson and Krenwinkle had to control Folger and Frykowski when they made a break for it.

this is the same person who allegedly said and did these things in 1969...

40 years ago...

Yeah, right...


On Edit; so there's no confusion :sarcasm:

but she's where she needs to be. What she did was truly horrible and she should have been put to death years ago.

might have given her some empathy for Sharon Tate, begging for the stabbing to stop, and Atkins denying that plea. No mercy was given.

Crimes like hers, and this pleading to be released to die outside of prison, leaves us feeling sorry for victim, the victim's family, and even the prisoner, who at the time of the crime acted like a scum-sucking bitch from hell. Some could say releasing her now would be even harsher punishment-- for an all too brief time she'd be back in touch with what will soon be stolen from her by another killer whom she won't see any mercy from-- her illness-related death. Talk about justice...

...a young, impressionable woman that (under the influence of a counter culture Svengali and drugs) killed a couple of people 40 years ago is denied parole to die outside of prison.

But...a man that is responsible for the killing of 200 is released from prison after just a few years to die at home.

I know that they are not really comparable, but that was my first thought when I saw this story...

Atkins killed for no reason except the thrill of the kill.

Abdel Basset al-Megrahi killed for a political reason - the thrill of terrorism.

Not the same

Or do you really thinking letting an unrepentant mass murderer go is civilized?

was wrong, no doubt about it.

But the US didn't have much say in that, we do have a say in this case.

Seems to me that if the state has to make budget cuts, Susan Adkins health care would be a prime candidate.

Let her go.

was when Sharon Tate et al had their lives taken away by this piece of human filth and her compatriots.

They deserve the punishment that they were sentenced to receive.

Justice is never synonymous with vengeance.

thank you, Fearless :hi:

:hi:

the validity of her cancer and it is less expensive to taxpayers (especially to CA taxpayers), they should let her go to her family to finish off her life.

Please note: Luis Carilles Posada is still free, friend of Republicans and the CIA. His partner has a street named after him. Blew a commercial airliner right out of the sky. Adult life mission - kill Castro.

There are tough calls to make when people steal other peoples lives. Some cheer for the crime and the criminal. Some are always trying to send a message. It's tough playing judge.

I didn't expect to see her get one now.

I understand that she's harmless at this point, but I can also understand the feelings of her victims families.

The Scots shame us with their extravagant compassion. I'm no fan of Atkins, but releasing her from prison now would be the compassionate thing to do. But in the land whose national religion is the High Church of Redemptive Violence, it's unsurprising that even on a progressive message board, the punishment and revenge factor is still as high as it is.

What's the purpose of incarceration? Punishment? Revenge? To Protect Society? Rehabilitation? The answers vary from prisoner to prisoner and from crime to crime. But at root in this instance, it's hard to get away from the revenge factor as the other three appear moot.

It wasn't the Scots people's choice. They did not all agree to this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090828/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_lockerbie

According to the government official whose job it was to review the process, he found the conditions and process for early compassionate release had all gone decently and in order (to borrow a good Presbyterian phrase). In the first flush after the release of the Lockerbie bomber, it's not surprising there is a backlash against it. I'm willing to bet that that 60% number disapproval number will go down significantly in three months, be a plurality or less within nine months, and will be the minority opinion within one to two years.

Releasing a very sick old woman for her last few months of life would indeed be a mercy she doesn't deserve. And we'd be a better society for doing it.

Come again?

Sounds pretty merciful to me, considering what she did.

She should die in prison.

The mythology surrounding her grand jury statements regarding Tate's death is too well-entrenched, and she really, to some extent, became the face of the cult, as far as the girls were concerned. Much better cases for release:

Lesley Van Houten - She was not at the Tate scene, and likely had only marginal actual involvement in the LaBianca killings. She has certainly served more time than almost any other person sentenced to life (with parole, which was the only sentence available upon the redaction of the death penalty) during that time period.

Robert Beausoleil - He was convicted for the murder of Gary Hinman, and was in jail at the time of Tate-LaBianca. Like Van Houten, most inmates in the same class were released during the 1980's and 1990's on parole. The only reason he is still in prison is because he was associated with Manson - even pre-Tate-LaBianca.

Van Houten's case can certainly be read as marginal, but Beausoleil's case is shockingly clear: mere association with Manson during the period makes you unparole-able, no ifs, ands, or buts. This is an unfair and unjust de facto policy, since it indicates special treatment based solely on the publicity of the crimes (which, in Beausoleil's case, were not even crimes he was in any way involved in!).

>>Whitehouse, 46, has said his wife has made him a better person in their 21 years of marriage and should be released if for no other reason than to keep taxpayers from having to cover her hefty medical expenses.

I wonder if anyone thought about how this could save the state a bunch of money. She had a leg amputated already. What else could she do?

I find it astounding to think that a 25 year old man married this POS! :puke:


:dem: :kick:

I caught a bit on TV about this a while ago. Apparently the spouses of inmates in California are entitles to certain extra financial/welfare type benefits to help them cover their "hardship" while their spouse is incarcerated. The scam is that someone on the outside will marry someone on the inside, and then they split the extra benefits between them. The person on the outside gets free cash with no strings attached, and the prisoner gets much-needed cash to purchase things on the prison black market, or in the commissary.

That's probably what this marriage is. Otherwise, he's just a loon looking to glom onto her "fame" for attention. We have lots of those in California too.

;-)

According to Susan Atkins own testimony, those were her final words to Sharon Tate before stabbing the woman to death, sopping up her blood, and writing on the walls of the house with it.

Karma sucks, doesn't it Susan?

life in prison suffering from cancer with no chance for parole EVER is far worse punishment than death. She'll BEG for death's mercy before she departs from this life.

Nobody stays in prison because they want to.

See post above.

n/t

Atkins original grand jury testimony claimed that she uttered the statement above (or something very close to it), but "merely" held Tate down afterward while Watson stabbed her to death. During the trial Atkins made the same statement again, but claimed that she herself stabbed Tate numerous times after uttering it.

Watson and Atkins now claim that the original grand jury testimony was the truth...Atkins made the comment above, and then held Tate down while she was murdered. Both also agree that it was Atkins who splashed the blood around the room and wrote the message in Tate's blood.

The cold blooded, evil comment towards a bound pregnant woman stands, no matter which version you believe. Atkins active participation in the murders also stands, no matter which version you believe.

He has also, of course, repeated it numerous times, but he's hardly a consistent witness on this point. There's also a distinction between saying that the grand jury testimony as a whole was true and that this specific statement actually happened.

There's no dispute that Atkins wrote PIG at the Tate crime scene. But there is significant dispute about what she was doing during the murders, and especially Tate. All three other Family members have stated on numerous occasions that she stood in the middle of the floor as if in shock. This is largely supported by the fact that Watson and Krenwinkel had to chase down the other victims. If anything, she prevented Tate from also trying to flee when Frykowski and Folger fled (with Watson going after Frykowski and Krenwinkel going after Folger). The "held down" version of things is probably more accurately this version, in which she physically prevented Tate from untying herself when there was nobody else in the room. The forensics simply don't back up a second weapon on the Tate murder.

And nobody is disputing her active role during the murders, even if she was just standing there, which is probably the truth.

Listen, I think Atkins should stay in prison. Watson should not get out. Krenwinkel should probably not get out. Van Houten should be paroled. Beausoleil should be paroled. Atkins, however, has - in my view - done a good and credible job of demystifying Bugliosi's silly Helter Skelter motive and portraying these crimes for what they were: a cascading set of events following a drug burn. I also think she's right that Bugliosi's fantasy of the Helter Skelter motive is largely responsible for elevating the killings to a mythological status in the culture.

I don't see the difference.

But Susan Atkins, who DIDN'T TRY TO KILL FORD, stays in jail?

Squeaky Fromme was likely involved in at least two murders, but was never convicted of killing anybody. Susan Atkins was directly convicted of seven counts of first-degree murder and sentenced to death. She received a reprieve when the death penalty was overturned in California. As a nice extra, she was also at the Gary Hinman murder scene, bringing her grand total of capital murder convictions to EIGHT. It's a little different, wouldn't you say? Indeed, Susdan Atkins was present at and convicted of more murders than any other manson disciple, including Tex Watson (although, to be fair, Watson almost certainly actually physically killed all seven of the Tate-Labianca victims).

Makes sense now.

n/t

She deserves to die in prison.

that USAmerika is a barbaric Empire...

Piss on ALL Flags but especially the flag of the barbaric Empire of USAmerika ...

On Edit:

And, as usual, this kind of thread, that begs for compassion and understanding, results in the blood-thirsty hypocrites and mindless revenge-meisters crawling out from under the rocks and slime they normally occupy to spew their venom upon another unfortunate human being -- 'cause of course, your shit don't stink, do it?

You don't know SHIT about who this person may be now.

You regurgitate your pet phrases and "testimony" from the distant past in order to keep the fires of vengeance stoked.

You get some kind of sick thrill from piling on the misery and corrupting our society.

With "Democrats" like some of you, no wonder Health Care Reform is crashing -- who cares about people who <despised human frailty here>...

You make me SICK!!!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

but it doesn't have someone else's blood in it.