Pope: religion should build peace, fight racism

Source: AP

VITERBO, Italy – Pope Benedict XVI marked the 70th anniversary of the start of World War II on Sunday by saying religion should promote peace and fight racism and totalitarianism.

The German-born Benedict said the memory of one of the worst conflicts in history should serve as a warning to never repeat such a "barbarity" as the Holocaust and the extermination of millions of innocents.

"The contribution that religion can and must make is particularly important in promoting forgiveness and reconciliation against violence, racism, totalitarianism and extremism, which defile the image of the Creator in man," he said.

snip...

The 82-year-old Benedict has spoken out frequently about the horrors of World War II. The pontiff was forced to serve in the Hitler Youth corps and later in the army before deserting near the end of the war.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090906/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_pope

But ratso has advanced the church to the 18th century

I thought religion was about putting others down and thereby making yourself seem better than you are. Had we not had religion, we'd have missed much of the bloodshed of the last 2000 years.

Look at a list of all the wars of the last 2000 years and tell me how many only occur because of religion.

:shrug:

Religion had nothing to do with us going to Iraq and everything to do with neoconservative theory, which is decidedly not religious. Almost every single war of the last 2000 years has been for very secular reasons. And while religion has been used to justify wars, as has every other aspect of different cultures who go to war, it's not the cause of them all too often.

Blaming religion for all the wars has to be the most misdirected and simplistic way to understand the world. I'm a huge military history buff, and the claim that religion was the cause for most warfare in the last 2000 years is laughable at best. You'll find that land, greed, politics, resources, etc. all are much more often the real cause of practically every war. Even the actual "crusades", which had a lot more "religion" involved, were very much about feudal politics, resources, etc. Which is not surprising when you consider the Pope was a political figure as well as a religious one. Those who actually start wars very often may try to recruit their culture's religion to back it up, but the real reason for war is often incredibly "worldly" and many of the participants in said wars usually don't even know the "real" reason they are fighting.

It is much easier to blame religions.

As are all other political movements.

All wars are fought because of tribalism, of which religion is but a subset.

Ideology is often as much a "system of beliefs" as religion is. And in many ways it has been used by warmongers the same way religion has. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, they all used ideology to gain the support of their people but often believed or did things themselves that showed them not to be "ideologically pure" to their own ideology, be it communism, fascism, etc. It's not exactly the same as religion, but it is used as a justification just as well. The whole idea that the US should "spread democracy" was one of the justifications for Afghanistan and Iraq, and that is a belief based on ideology more than religion.

As long as this cult continues to denigrate gay people and women, they don't deserve even the tiniest bit of respect.

It's funny how it does the exact opposite in the US. It's also funny how the Pope can conveniently ignore his own Churches mastery of all that is negative in society over the centuries.

History and current events are rendered meaningless I suppose.

..............more and more irrelevant and especially more and more irrational.




Edit to add: AND QUIT FUCKING THE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!

that I can tear up in public?

"Human rights are the invention of the Marxists" -- Augusto Pinochet, 2004 quote

Just get a picture of the Emperor... Same guy!

What about denying his followers the use of condoms and thus getting them infected with the AIDS virus? That's as barbaric as the Holocaust. Millions of people are dying of AIDS and are being left as orphans THIS moment because of this barbaric rule.

I am sorry if it seemed that way!

What I meant was that for the Pope to call the holocaust barbaric whilst denying the barbaric acts of the RCC is really fresh.

I apologize for any confusion or if I insulted anyone.

Then it's OK to build peace.

Otherwise shun them.

meh...not so much.

United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights webpage 2009 http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/ViolenceAgainstWomen.aspx

This next one is an "old" article from CBC Canada, 2006 -- but in three years, there has still been no substantial action-- world leaders continue to see racism as the evil it is, but gender violence, much more widespread and continuing to rise, still gets zero press. And women's shelters get cut. (One out of every THREE women worldwide, people!! Let's not forget that) http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/10/22/jean-violence.html?ref=rss

Thanks for taking time out from your busy schedule of oppressing women and gay and enabling pedophiles, Benny.

We've seen what religion has done for the world. Just great. This is such bull shit. It's like listening to the repuglican party talk about what they are going to do for the poor. A sad joke.

Religion is a scourge to the earth. Look at history. It's no secret.

Does he really expect us to believe religion is good for the peace on this earth? Get serious pope!

so yeah, any time you'd like to start being rational, that would be great.

NT!

.

I hope the totalitarian leaders of the Catholic church do better at picking the next pontiff.

hiding behind the veil of racism is skirting the issue.




I hope the totalitarian leaders of the fem movement do better at picking their next pontiff.

They are more concerned about foreplay then fair play

You appear to be afraid of women and what their individual freedom means. There are issues, such as the veil, that mean many different things to many different people. It must be discussed, debated in the open for people to come to an understanding if that is what they feel they need.

In the meantime, your idiotic statements only peg you as someone afraid of diversity, free thought, and a woman's sexuality.

what comment #22 meant :shrug:

But yea, that was way out there.

:grr:

The Sun has lost its Moon. Obama is too zen-like and agreeable for this pontiff and the usual power struggle between the Church and State has been downgraded because the pope seems thrown off by the power shift.

...inherently good message because of the messenger.

I dont understand your post. Please explain.

The poster I replied said religion should STFU, implying that he doesn't want to hear that the religious of the world should fight racism and build peace. I don't know why anyone would disagree with the pope's sentiments in this case, and doing so makes it seem like the poster is in favor of racism and enmity. For the record, I'm not catholic.

It's a good message despite the messenger. That was the point of my post. Does that clear it up?

that religion is the cause of, the pope might be taken seriously. Until then, whatever comes out of his mouth is just lip service.

he'd be appalled.

that the immense ignorance and stupidity displayed there could even make a nazi feel embarrassed. Maybe the American birthers, teabaggers, and anti-health care demonstrators are putting the nazi's to shame with their wild accusations and fear-mongering.

Nothing like 30 years of conservative rule to sink a nation into idiocracy.

Your fucking Church is based on the premise that women and gays are inferior to men. So spare me your bullshit.

"The poor, oppressed women, we only make up 51% of the global population. There's no way we could vote for our own best interests to better our own position. It's obviously a vast misogynistic conspiracy that prevents us from living the way we want, rather than our own inaction!!!!"

:sarcasm:

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

You know why I don't buy that?

Because the Catholic Church continues to demand, on pain of eternal Hell, that every woman in a state of high-risk or ectopic pregnancy carry to term and birth, even if she dies in the process, sacrificing her life for the other, rather than committing a greater evil (their words, not mine) to escape alive.

So why, then, did he not refuse to aid the Nazis, even if it got him shot or hanged?

rather than writing an obnoxious, sarcastic little one-line red herring to a stranger.

If you knew your history, you'd realize joining the Hitler Youth eventually became mandatory by law. After that display of ignorance, you complain that as a teenager he should have gotten himself killed resisting the Nazis. That's a nice abstract point of view: perhaps you can make it more concrete for those less righteous than yourself, by telling us how you've risked your own life to stop the Rwandan genocide, or the ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia, or the ruin of Iraq, or the recent genocide in Sudan

A man who "did what he had to do to survive" may still be an honorable man, and still can be considered a good Catholic, but the man who is to be Pope needs to be held to a higher moral standard than ordinary men.

That Mr Ratzinger was the Pope that presided over the beatification of Franz Jägerstätter is a too-perfect irony.

joined because local Catholic authorities responded to his conscientious objection with unhelpful advice. He was in his mid-thirties when beheaded. Regarding Jägerstätter as a martyr, therefore, involves a recognition by the Catholic hierarchy of the claims of individual conscience, whatever opinions church authorities might hold and whatever advice they might give

Like Jägerstätter, Ratzinger joined the army when compelled to do so by law: apparently he never engaged in any hostilities, and he deserted when he could. He was barely eighteen when the war ended

It is unclear to me what you find ironic in this story. Your sneer that Ratzinger "did what he had to do to survive" suggests some serious collaboration -- but that is not documented. It is cheap and easy to look back sixty-five or seventy years, from a position of comfort, without any personal danger, and to blame people who were then children for not being heroes in confronting the problems of their world

The Catholic Church teaches that if a medical procedure is critically necessary (i.e. - the woman will certainly die if it is not performed), then that medical procedure must take place. The death of the fetus, while tragic, occurred due to the attempt to save the life of the mother, not as a direct attempt to terminate the life of the fetus.

in particular, and of the Abrahamic Religions (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) in general.

Seems a bit late to be getting on the Peace Train - but better late than never.

Now if he could just bring around the Christians in this country.

:grr:

Just another couple of points specifically about the Catholic church and the pope. They are of course invovlved in supporting the war on drugs in South America. The Catholic church also tends to favor those governments that are non-leftist for some reason. I guess most people would find these two points debatable as to whether they are good or not or how bad. However in my opinion these are two more reasons that I dislike and distrust organized religion. Another little touched upon point is that all religions that have dogma expect it's followers to accept what they are told with no proof. This in my view encourages people to be sheep. Case in point the levels of religion or strict religion in a people and then match that with the level of civil rights of that population. Or their literacy levels, belief in science, etc.

And I am an atheist or non-religionist by the way just to get that out of the way. But to my pragmatic thinking(and I have read up somewhat on the subject, both from old authors like Bertrand Russell and new ones like Richard Dawkins) I question what good organized devout religion can truly have if it is widespread and strictly followed. Asfar as ethics toward man I think the three mono-theistic religions have a track record at least as bad as that of other religions or even non-religionists. Not the least of which is their encouragement of ignorance on all things not concerning said religions, such as scientific evidence or moral ambiguity or anything that might threaten the dominance of said religion: secular states that allow all religions to exist and that support none, missionaries and zealots, zero population growth at the expense of out breeding all other religions, encouragement of crusades or jihads, separation of people by religion, oppression of women and brainwashing of children, I could go on but you see my point of view.

but it doesn't. the poop has spoken.

Racism and the global mechanisms of white supremacy are the biggest problems the world faces today.

Until he joins the 21st century and drags the dead weight of Catholicism along with him and starts supporting REAL human rights, his hopes of peace are merely gas pains in his belly. Fuck the pope. Matter of fact, fuck religion, its the major point of problems we all face on this planet.

Traditionally, an old decaying religion has been replaced by a newer more exciting and accessible one. Humanism is falling down on the job here, because we don't, as a rule, all get together and be humanist in a big echoing and yummy smelling building after which we leave with the glow that only the group dynamic can deliver.

We need a true civic church, where people can go to services to be inspired, to get fellowship, and have pancake suppers.


Edit- and Bingo!

After one coffee hour/snack time session, I finally confessed to atheism. They were horrified -- at the fact that I'd been with the wrong study group, because the atheists/humanists generally sat two tables over, but I was still welcome to hang out with them if I wanted. And then they invited me to help them paint the Easter eggs for the neighborhood Easter egg party. Even though they were certain it was non-Christian and very pagan, they were equally certain that Easter was a lot of fun for the kids. Actually, now that I think about it, my kid won the hula-hoop contest and got a bubble-machine as a prize. It was a lot of fun.

I guess my point is that humanists do have places to go, but, ironically, we tend to be on the antisocial side.

It feels like they are trying to sell a cleaner form of Christianity or a scrubbed composite. To me, it comes off like Alcoholics Anonymous' rather condescending "higher power" that they invoke with a wink.

There's plenty of evil in the world today to fight and he's stuck back 60 years ago in his mind. I'm not saying that we shouldn't remember, because we should, like with museums and history lessons. I'm saying that the CC should stop pretending like it's an entity that fights discrimination in the world. There's plenty of it going on right under their noses and they aren't doing anything about it. The CC is irrelevant.

Totalitarianism. You mean like that of the Roman Catholic Church from 700 - 1580 AD?

Extremism. You mean like that of the Spanish Catholic Inquisition?

Racism. You mean like that of the Roman Catholic Church towards the European Jews during the late 1930s?

Violence. You mean like that fulminated by Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland?

...you've had your millenium to work things out. Now is the time for rational thought and demystifying cloud beings.

The Papacy was complicit during the Holocaust. So your pleas fall on deaf ears.
Someone needs to remind "The Emperor" of the not so distant history of the Catholic
Church's inaction during the World War II years.

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The Catholic Church Inc. made it's bones engaging in outright slaughter of these groups.

Peace for me, but not for thee, sayeth the pope.

to racism...

and became a Mormon.

First.

(Catholic or not) do you suppose were surprised to hear that WWII started in September 1939? I'll bet more than we care to know.