Revealed: how 'war hero' Kerry tried to put off Vietnam military duty

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/07/wkerr07.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/07/ixnewstop.html

if this is a dupe, please lock. if not well here we go folks, it time for the dirt to fly. hope kerry is ready.

Get the Torygraph to run your bullshit story, then watch the American McMedia properties pick it up.

Samuel Goldhaber, the article's author who is now a cardiologist attached to the Harvard School of Medicine, spent 11 hours trailing Mr Kerry and still remembers that the subject of the Paris deferment came up during long conversations about Vietnam.

"I stand by my story," he told The Telegraph.

If the story is true, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is a negative story because it says that "the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy."

People that want to avoid military service don't enlist, unless they think they are going to get a choice assignment. Swift boats are not a choice assignment.

...he did a tour aboard ship in the Vietnam theater BEFORE he volunteered for the swift boats for his second tour. He had to have known what he was getting himself into before he made that decision.

If so what! Hell he served and served most honorably. He didn't get his daddy to throw his weight around to get out of serving which El Asshole did.

In 1966 I was drafted and so were about six other guys who worked in the same grocery store as I did. It was spring and most of the other guys did not want to spend the summer months in the Army so they enlisted for 4 years which put off their going until the following year. I did not want to do 4 years so I did not do that. The war would go on for 8 more years and for sure those guys went to Vietnam also.

This happened to lots of guys. They did not get out of the draft by going to the Guard they enlisted for 4 years as did Kerry!

So many other prominant Republicans avoided military service completely - is KKKarl one of them????

Anyone know?

Their source for that story is tenuous, at best. Nineteen years ago? The only source?

This absolutely shows how scared they are of The Coward running up against a true military hero who actually did save a life.

Oh man, this is sick. And look at who is quoted. Lucianne Goldberg!

Reeks of desperation and personally, I do not think the mainstream media will fall for it.


Cher

So the news here is that Kerry tried to put off going to Vietnam by a year but was unsuccessful? Holy crap! John Kerry was unsuccessful in his request to delay his enlistment by a year?

I wonder if the right-wing brain trusts will try to run with this? It's the scoop of the century!

they really are desperate.

I can't figure out how this is relevant, it's obvious that the source holds some kind of grudge, it's a British tabloid for goodness sakes. The average reader's eyes will glaze.

Of course the Freepers will be all over it, but they weren't going to vote for Kerry anyway.

That John Kerry fought in Vietnam anyways, unlike AWOL Bush?

I got three words for them: bring em on.

They KNOW they are going down and are kickin' and screamin'

Unless they can get their BBV boxes in a row

Then, Its pitchfork time.

THIS is what they got?:

"This means that Kerry didn't jump into all that heroic service until he was pushed, and it is a very nice piece of information," said Lucianne Goldberg, a prominent Republican campaigner.

Translation:
"Yeah, he wouldn't have gone and earned that stupid Silver Star for bravery unless he had to! So there!."

:7 :7 :7

Who was the first one over the hill with her m-16 blazing. D'oh ~ She didn't go in the service either. Did any of these "Chicken Hawks" ever do anything for their country? What exactly did Lucianne do again? Oh that's right she entrapped her best friend and turned Judas on her. We can really trust the GOP because they have spokes persons like Lucianne.

than Max Cleland!" - shouts the right-wing fanatic!

:puke:

These idiots are worse than dirt, and I hate to cast aspersions on dirt by using it to describe the filth that inhabit the media and 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

:eyes:

n/t

When it was time, Kerry did his duty and beyond...

This is SO lame it is laughable. What? No illegitimate black baby? No extramarital blow job? No insider trading? I guess we’ll have to wait for their national coven, umm convention for some obscure connect-the-dots child porn allegations.

They are desperate. The gay marriage wedge that was designed to distract the masses from *’s miserable foreign and domestic failures has only introduced open rebellion to their lies. And it’s catching like “wildfire.” Their pants are on fire.

I’m not suggesting that they don’t have a base to swallow this Kool-aid. But for anybody outside of that base, this appears to be stupid. I think they’ve corrupted their anti-logic boards.

he tried to get a 12-month deferment. nothing dishonorable about it. he failed to get the deferment, and he went into combat.

Smirky on the other hand, succeeded in avoiding combat, but failed to live up to his end of the NG contract.

bring it on.

But leaving that aside, it seems to me that painting Kerry as somewhat conflicted about Viet Nam before he went is hardly useful to Bushco. After all, I am sure that most people around at that time were.

It's not credible.

I'm scared, hold me!

Lol!!!

So Kerry tried and failed to get a deferment.

Do the wingnuts REALLY want to talk about deferments?

As in Cheney (4 or 5), Ashcroft (to teach business courses), et al.

Bring. It. On.

at who they are freakin quoting.. Lucianne Goldberg for cripes sakes?!? :eyes:

...in the Vietnam theater, was wounded in action, and was awarded medals for heroism.

In comparison, we have Junior's military "record". His daddy got him into the Texas ANG ahead of 500 other applicants already in line, and his daddy commissioned Junior as a 2nd lieutenant without a single hour of ROTC or Officer Candidate School. After being trained as a pilot and logging some flight hours, he refused to take a flight physical and went AWOL for about a year while boys were still being killed in Vietnam.

So, for what exactly does Kerry have to be ready?

The King will have no clothes left.

That is or might be critical!!

Would two tours of duty be served during 4 years of enlistment?
Would a second tour of duty be normal for the Vietnam War?
How many tours of duty would there be for a draftee?

Answers for any other questions related to this please.

1) Yes, Kerry served two tours during his period of enlistment in the Navy. His first tour was aboard a ship (a destroyer, I believe), and his second tour was with the swift boats.

2) I knew quite a few guys that served two tours in Vietnam but that was not the norm. Most served one tour.

3) Draftees rarely volunteered to go back to Vietnam. They did their 13 months and got out.

I'm asking these questions in an attempt to see how much positive this can be for Kerry.

Why would there be a change from doing a tour on a destroyer and then something different?

...once he was done, he could have gone back to the States for a desk job until his committment was finished. Or, he could have asked for another sea assignment on another ship.

In short, Kerry had to have volunteered for the second tour in Vietnam, and specifically asked for the swift boat assignment.

I'm guessing that only Kerry knows why he chose to transfer to the swift boats. Very dangerous tour of duty.

The fact that a 2nd tour was not mandatory would carry a lot of weight.

The question to pose to others would be.. which would the average person do? Finish up your committment in the US or do another tour of duty in a war zone? Which is more dangerous??? A desk that is held up by dirt somewhere in the US safe from enemy fire or in a war zone?

...please note that someone is trying to bury this information and that it is still available in cache form. Make a copy on your PCs if you want to keep the information:

<http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:ZScxI0yzQX4J:www.hollinger.com/mgmt/_mgmt.htm+Hollinger+board+of+directors&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>

Excerpts:

"The Hon. Henry A. Kissinger Director"

"The Hon. Richard N. Perle Director"

Henry A. Kissinger + list of crimes against humanity (google)

http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html
http://www.eclipse.net/%7Etgardnet/kiss/kisskill.html

Henry Kissinger: War Criminal or Old-Fashioned Murderer?

Incredibly, Henry Kissinger—the man who rivals Pol Pot for the dubious honor of being the person responsible for the death of the largest number of innocent people in South East Asia (and far surpasses Pol Pot in criminality when one factors in Kissinger's various levels of responsibility for wholesale slaughter and repression in other parts of the world)—still wields significant power in the United States; but his role as eager facilitator of mass murder, totalitarian repression and other atrocities is never discussed in polite society. Although Kissinger is a frequent guest on Nightline, where he is treated as a harmless and venerable elder statesman, his friend Ted Koppel has never brought up the topic of Kissinger's responsibility for the horrifying deaths of so many in Asia, Latin America and other areas of the world. It is safe to assume that Koppel has no intention of doing so in the future.

In fact, Kissinger's continuing influence over what the US government does, and what is reported about what the government does, can clearly be seen is a relatively recent media event: Kissinger's significant behind-the-scene role in effecting CNN's retraction of the "Tailwind" story.

CNN's ostensible justification for the retraction is laid out in the compromise-ridden Abrams/Kohler Report. Although the Tailwind story's producers, April Oliver and Jack Smith, had ample evidence to draw the conclusions that they did (see the Oliver/Smith Rebuttal to the A/K Report), CNN quickly caved when the Pentagon and Kissinger, whose role in the indiscriminate mass killings in South East Asia is a well-known but never-mentioned (by the mainstream media) fact, both objected to the story. "Tailwind" alleged further U.S. atrocities in SE Asia during Kissinger's reign, specifically the use of poison gas during an illegal U.S. black operation in Laos. (Imagine the U.S. media retracting a story about an atrocity committed by Saddam Huessein because Saddam claimed it never happened.)
(snip)

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/02/tailwind.findings/index.html
(snip)
Q. However, it would not surprise you?

A. Well, I would expect them to use whatever was necessary to achieve their mission in an emergency.

As the interview progressed, the following exchange occurred:

Q. And, if, as I believe I can prove, CBU-15 was used in Tailwind, what would be the next step? I mean, would CBU-15 be used again?

A. Well, that's more of a political decision than it is a military decision. All these weapons are in our system. Every release of a weapon of that nature has to come from the commander-in-chief. And no field commander is going to smuggle a few of these new terrible weapons out and say, I'm going to run out here and try them on these guys and see how they work.

The following exchange then transpired:

Q. Okay, but back to CBU-15, I mean, our understanding you've said earlier that you would not deny any American soldier any weapon that could save his life. I mean, any weapon that protected American forces you support and would make available to them in theater. Now, obviously one of the things, one of the pieces of this puzzle here is, okay, we know all these weapons were in Okinawa, and we've been told that this particular weapon was stored at NKP, the Special Forces airbase. Because how I mean, how else could you make it available to them unless it was at an airbase someplace close by.

Now, wouldn't it be logical that the weapon would be close by and at hand if they were to be available to these men on a special mission?

A. Not necessarily, because when the mission was planned, with our air level capability, and its in the middle of Kansas, it had been and it was going to be used by authority granted, the fact that it was in Kansas at the moment doesn't mean it's not going to be in Laos tomorrow. So I don't quite follow your
(snip)(lots more of eye poping detail in there)

http://www.greenspun.com/com/zpub/un/wanted-hkiss.html
(snip)
Contributed by jess (jel@hotmail.com) on January 24, 2004.

I'm young, I think Kissinger has done many things to disgrace America, but if this is what passes for political debate, 'tis a sorry state the far left is in.

anonymously contributed on February 7, 2004.

Probably many of us do not know a country name Bangladesh, liberated on 16 October 1971. The nine months war against Pakistan which started on 26 March 1971 led by legendary leader Sheikh Mujibar Rahman who became president and declared the Father of the Nation after the liberation. The war against innocent Bengali people backed by US, specally aided by Henry Kissinger turned into a genocide of such a degree that broke all previous records in world history. During that nine months battle more than three million people were being slaughtered. That was not the end. Henry Kissinger again plotted the blue print kill Mr. Mujib with the help of few outraged army officers. Event took place on 15 August 1975, Mujib along with 17 of his family members were killed in that massacre.Women and children were not even spared. There are numerous information on the topics in many different web sites: please search.

Contributed by Tabin Hasan (tabin@aiub.edu) on February 21, 2004.
(snip)

Is Henry Kissinger a war criminal, fascist or just misunderstood
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=345935

The white wash is on, is it? Just one more reason, I don't need to feel proud, but I damn sure don't like being included as too stupid and ignorant to know

Found this, doing a copernic looking for http://www.hollinger.com/mgmt

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/01/283359.html
We are slaves - time to destroy our "masters"

03.01.2004 11:30


911 was "a new Pearl Harbour" - how convenient!

Looks like "Dave" is the local zionist spook - probably sent by the ADL or JDL or one of the other countless misinformation zionist organisations (seen it all before Dave - don't waste my time) ... He probably posts under lots of different names (as they do in thier vain attempt to make IndyMedia look like the zionists' favourite hangout!). Go back to reading the zionist extremist hate site LGF, "Dave" ...



Posted by "oiyoi" on the "Armed pigs might fly" post ( http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/12/283282.html ) ...:


"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Adolf Hitler's Deputy Chief and Luftwaffe Commander, at the Nuremberg trials, 1946.

Angry Manc
e-mail: angry_manc@hotmail.com
(snip)
Not that this wasn't known, just maybe others would like to check to see if the world is still flat

Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Junior, Cheney, Perle.

Should be on the post office bulletin board under the sign "FBI's Most Wanted".

People often say things about people who ask questions, I just can't remember what they are now. I often get things twisted around by mistake must be something with the English language.

Btw,depending on who is asking, could it also be "FBI's Most UNWanted"?

silver star - John Kerry: 1, Pres. ScaredShitless: 0

How many tours in Vietnam did AWOL do?? 0. The pussy never left the states. Yeah, keep bringing up vietnam, Rove. You're only making your dipshit candidate look worse and worse.

"war hero" in quotes!!! :D

Let's remember kiddies, Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star and the Silver Star... the last time anyone gave Dubya a silver star it was on his forehead for second place in coloring! :bounce:

Aren't all the great ones throughout history RELUCTANT WARRIORS? This makes his story even more compelling.

(I'm still voting for him in November, though), but you don't have to be a Kerry-ite to be :mad: at this asinine article.

So what if Kerry wanted to delay his assignment to Vietnam? At least he went through proper channels with his request and complied when he was turned down. And then went on to serve with distinction. That's a whole lot better than GW getting Daddy to have him assigned to the Champaign Brigade in Texas...and even then the candyass shrugs off reporting for duty for most of a year.

who was Kerry's daddy. Did his daddy have any pull or was his daddy a run of the mill parent without any connections?

If so we need to publicize this or least have the info available so these accusations are rebutted.

that war that made no sense for the US. And if bush were honest, which he isn't, he'd admit that he used his daddy's power to finagle his way into the national guard and then didn't even show up for that. I, on the other hand, went to war for this country that I love."

attempting to DEFER Viet Nam for a year versus AVOIDING Viet Nam entirely by enrolling in the Texas National Guard.

This is a good discussion to have. Let's hope the RNC brings this up. I would love to start talking about the Texas National Guard again.

That's a whole world of a lot more than the drunken, smirking coke-snorting moron in an empty flight suit ever did.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Only in Bushieland can the truth be spun so wildly back wards.

The big campaign oxyMORON is "Bush's Vietnam war record".

he pledged to continue the US policy of vetoing ALL UN resolutions against Israel, no matter how heinous their behavior. Same old, same old...

That's gotta count for something, don't it?

Shouldn't someone fill it? Preferably with cement!

It's BS.

that went with the Kerry-intern story as fact.

Why did George W Bush not fly in the military one day after April 1971, when he had signed a contract to fly until 1974 ? Are these contracts not to be taken seriously ? How much money did it cost to train the coke head in chief ?

If they want to bring this stuff on, I think they are going to be sorry. Of course Bush won't get his hands dirty with this and neither should Kerry, but it will be take care of by others.

But like me, also have served their time in the military Honorably.

The AWOL has done a great dis-service. Him and his chicken-hawk buddies should get out of town before its too late

All wars should be put off forever. Not one more drop of blood be spilled in anger or hatred.

Peace

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=443058

But the mods moved it to campaign 2004.

<The revelation appears to undercut Sen Kerry's carefully-cultivated image as a man who willingly served his country in a dangerous war - in supposed contrast to President Bush, who served in the Texas National Guard and thus avoided being sent to Vietnam>

This paper quite purposefully doesn’t get it, do they? Whatever his objections (if indeed this story is accurate and not part of an elaborate smear campaign by Rove –which I think is highly probable given the Bush camp’s past history), he nevertheless did his duty, went into battle and served with honour and valour. Whereas Bush used every avenue and connection possible to avoid active service and therefore evaded Vietnam –just like Cheney, Rove the whole Republican contingency. Even if he were the most reluctant soul in the world, HE DID HIS DUTY. This is pure hypocrisy on the part of the Bush camp and someone should call them on it

< Another Democrat official said merely: "In Vietnam, John Kerry proved his patriotism beyond question. Everyone knows that.">

Precisely. And he served, which is the main aspect to consider

< A senior Republican strategist, who asked not to be named, said: "I've not heard this before. This undercuts Kerry's complaints about Bush and it continues to pose questions as to his credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans.">

Well, I think the fact that virtually the whole national security team (minus Rumhead and one or two others) and senior officials in the White House used their privileges and connections to evade serving at all poses questions as to their credibility among ordinary Vietnam veterans. The Kerry camp should point that out

< He said it would fuel concerns over the way Sen Kerry made a name for himself by leading anti-war protests in Washington and Boston in the late 1960s and early 1970s after he had completed his service in the US Navy, even while his former comrades continued to fight and die.>

See, the difference is that he did his duty and returned a war hero. So therefore, having served in the line of fire, he had every right and was in a strong position to speak out against the war. It’s far more better than Bush, Cheney and Rove –who were busy advancing their own interests and “other priorities” when other people with more honour and honesty than them were fighting and dying.

< "This means that Kerry didn't jump into all that heroic service until he was pushed, and it is a very nice piece of information," said Lucianne Goldberg, a prominent Republican campaigner.>

Oh Lucianne. That paragon of honesty, virtue and truth! Wasn’t she the one who was busy trying to convince us of the Clinton death list at one point?

< We find that he had only one day off sick - with three wounds? What exactly were these wounds?" she asked.>

Oh goodness! Is this the best they could come up after investigating his record? Oh my gosh! Kerry’s disgraceful, disreputable! He should withdraw now! The fact that he only had one day off makes him even more credible to me.

and luckily they stopped the draft before I got called up.

Even if true, it has nothing to do with the silver star and bronze star he won over there while Bush was AWOL somewhere in Alabama.

On edit--the issue is not who served and who didn't. The issue is who hypocritically sends others to do what he wouldn't do (Bush) and who doesn't (Kerry).

Let them bring up his service. It only keeps George's AWOL problem in the forefront. And there's something new cooking in the press regarding George's records!