Head Count: House Progressives Preparing For Public Option Showdown

Source: Huffington Post

Head Count: House Progressives Preparing For Public Option Showdown
First Posted: 09-11-09 02:08 PM | Updated: 09-11-09 06:01 PM

Next week will be gut-check time for the bloc of progressives standing in opposition to any bill that doesn't include a public health insurance option.

The leadership of the Congressional Progressive Caucus plans a "whip count" for early in the week to gauge the strength of their coalition, caucus members tell the Huffington Post. The whip team will also approach members of the Congressional Black, Hispanic, and Asian Pacific American Caucuses.

Democrats hold 256 seats in Congress and need 218 to pass a bill, meaning 39 progressives, voting together, could tank the legislation, assuming all Republicans vote nay.

The whip count will send a message to to the administration, said CPC co-chair Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.): "Don't cut deals with some elements of our party or with some elements of the Republican Party without including the progressives in that discussion," he suggested. "So we're going to count our votes, see how many we have and that's the number we're going to indicate to both the leadership and the administration."




Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/11/head-count-house-progress_n_283756.html?view=print

n/t

We need to see some display of bravery. FOR ONCE in this lame duck administration.

If Republicans take control of Congress in 2010 due to progressives killing healthcare reform, they will become completely irrelevant. Obama will completely sidestep them and negotiate directly with Republicans. He'll have to -- they'll control what comes to the floor. That's what irrational progressives don't get -- there are many more votes in the center than in the left or the right, and as Clinton showed, presidents aren't afraid to go where the votes are. If progressives want to abdicate, there are plenty of Republicans to take their place as far as Obama is concerned. It is up to them. Either no public option now with the possibility of passing it in 2011, or welfare reform/tax cuts in 2011.

So, if progressives do nothing, then they're relevant? I'm afraid that's not how it works.

I disagree they are irrelevant just because they don't get a public option. They get to write 80% of the bill. But whether or not that is true, 2010 will make them less than irrelevant. Right now, Obama meets with Republicans to show that he is "bipartisan" (even if it is all for show). If Republicans get control of Congress, not only will progressives not get to write one line in any bill -- Obama won't even have any reason to meet with them. He would gain nothing out of it (nor would the Country, since the progressives would be powerless to do anything).

What's the point of gaining control if we have to act like Republicans to keep it?

I for one will not put in hundreds of hours canvassing my precinct unless there is some concrete benefit in this Congressional cycle. Because there's no point in spending all that time if we end up with legislation that is acceptable to Republicans.

Maybe I will finally follow through on my threats to "move to France".

" I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want, and get it. "

DLC Democrats and Blue Dogs alike
need to face the REALITY of the
situation.

Capitulation on real reform, reform that would
stop the madness of spiraling
costs and the exclusion of the poor
and entrepreneurial classes will see the
party OUT THE DOOR in 2012.

The cycle of Democratic incompetence (NAFTA, anyone?)
will continue, and we will always be taken down by
the Republican greed machine, because we will lose
the support of the people.

We have the White House AND Congress, NOW is the
time. All the work we have done in the past 8 years,
donating in small numbers, becoming active in our
districts, voting PROGRESSIVE representatives into
office, none is this came about by ACCIDENT.

We are closer than we have EVER been.

PUSH, PUSH, PUSH. We must NOT capitulate to the
Republicans OR the corporate vipers within our
own party at this time.

It is the Blue Dogs that are vulnerable and I say good riddance to them. I don't like hidden snakes in the grass. Since Republicans are in control of things now anyway what difference does it make who has the most members?

you obviously haven't been paying attention.

the ARE in control of congress. apparently numbers of seats held has nothing to do with "control"...

THAT is the problem.

letting them have their way, allowing THEM to dictate what the healthcare bill would be, is an advantage HOW? (other than for the insurance companies)

bipartisan now means letting the republicans have everything they want.

sorry.

unacceptable.

It is the only part that matters to us. Give us a public option and the insurance companies will give us all the other things that the bill requires of them. The public option is the key element of the bill. Without it the bill is just a bail-out for the insurance companies. No public option. No bill.

that the whole thing was a sham. That Obama never intended any real reform but would work for Insurance, rather than Health-care reform? That those who warned during the primaries that he was far to the right of most Democrats and would end up catering more to Republicans, were not wrong after all?

That's what you appear to be saying. And if you are right, it is not progressives who will become irrelevant in 2010. I don't think you understand how big an issue this is for the American people. Moderate Republicans (they do exist outside of DC and I know many of them) Independents and Progressives who are for a public option will be watching who supports it and who doesn't.

People may be losing some of the trust they had in this administration, but you seem to be convinced that the fears they have are valid. What I understand you to be saying is that Obama is a Republican with a D after his name, and feels more comfortable working with them than with Democrats. Did I misunderstand you?

If, a big if the way the conservatives are acting, the Republicans take over and do like they did last time by shutting the Democrats (not just the Progressives) out of the bill writing process then the whole Democratic house becomes irrelevant. Therefore, the question as I see it is (if the progressives have the numbers) are Obama and the house Democratic conservatives willing to risk losing the house and stalling the whole Democratic agenda to placate a few conservative Democrats and appeal to a few Republicans. Personally I think bipartisanship should take a backseat to actual getting something done and doing it right. It's a question of leadership a leader goes out and does his/her best to convince the people he/she is correct but in those few cases (not like Bush where it was every case) where the leader feels it is the right way and the right thing to do he has to do everything to push through their agenda. That does not mean coming back later and saying 'well we fought the good fight but this was all we got'. One thing the Republicans have beat the Democrats over the head with is that we don't stand for anything. Getting us to capitulate and compromise while they refuse to move just makes the party look weak and that's when we lose the middle. Look at Bush I think people in a lot of ways like to have a leader that they perceive, in Bushes case a delusional perception, be strong and wrong than weak and right. As others have stated the progressives gave up single payer without screaming too much and now they are being asked to give up on the compromise position of public option why is it that the progressives are the ones being asked to give up stuff. The conservatives have had sway in one way or another for a long time it is time for the progressives to a more substantial say in the future of this country. It does the country no good if the political pendulum swings far to the right when the Republicans have control and then only swings back to the middle when the Democrats control. Yes the voting public tends toward the middle as a whole but dramatic progress comes from the liberal side of the equation with the conservatives as a control. Slower progress or stagnation can come from the middle as they spend too much time trying not to offend anybody and being afraid to change too much. Well, enough for an early morning rant.

If, a big if the way the conservatives are acting, the Republicans take over and do like they did last time by shutting the Democrats (not just the Progressives) out of the bill writing process then the whole Democratic house becomes irrelevant. Therefore, the question as I see it is (if the progressives have the numbers) are Obama and the house Democratic conservatives willing to risk losing the house and stalling the whole Democratic agenda to placate a few conservative Democrats and appeal to a few Republicans. Personally I think bipartisanship should take a backseat to actual getting something done and doing it right. It's a question of leadership a leader goes out and does his/her best to convince the people he/she is correct but in those few cases (not like Bush where it was every case) where the leader feels it is the right way and the right thing to do he has to do everything to push through their agenda. That does not mean coming back later and saying 'well we fought the good fight but this was all we got'. One thing the Republicans have beat the Democrats over the head with is that we don't stand for anything. Getting us to capitulate and compromise while they refuse to move just makes the party look weak and that's when we lose the middle. Look at Bush I think people in a lot of ways like to have a leader that they perceive, in Bushes case a delusional perception, be strong and wrong than weak and right. As others have stated the progressives gave up single payer without screaming too much and now they are being asked to give up on the compromise position of public option why is it that the progressives are the ones being asked to give up stuff. The conservatives have had sway in one way or another for a long time it is time for the progressives to a more substantial say in the future of this country. It does the country no good if the political pendulum swings far to the right when the Republicans have control and then only swings back to the middle when the Democrats control. Yes the voting public tends toward the middle as a whole but dramatic progress comes from the liberal side of the equation with the conservatives as a control. Slower progress or stagnation can come from the middle as they spend too much time trying not to offend anybody and being afraid to change too much. Well, enough for an early morning rant.

that...you're entire post should be it's own topic!

Republicans are bullies...bullies don't stop until you fight back.

quote: Getting us to capitulate and compromise while they (the republicans) refuse to move just makes the party look weak and that's when we lose the middle. Look at Bush, I think people in a lot of ways like to have a leader that they perceive, in Bushes case a delusional perception, to be strong and wrong than weak and right.

cooperation from the GOP.

If health care passes, there will be tons of blowback from the deficit, forced participation and taxes on health care benefits. Dropping a bad bill would be escaping trouble, not getting into it.

.............What's going to happen is they will pass a "shit" bill and be BLAMED for the mess as the original poster says. They let slip away from them a real meaningful reform. It's just like the economy; if it's good the party in charge gets credit, if it's bad the party in control gets the blame. Mark my words, it'll be the same with the healthcare "reform".

IF THE CONSERVATIVE ASSHOLES DON'T GIVE!!!

GET IT?!!!

It's not if us "Progressives" don't give in - IT'S THE FUCKING CONSERVATIVE ASSHOLES WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE!!!

Typical that YOU PEOPLE - NEVER - criticize the RIGHT WING - just the "Progressives"...!!!

STOP WITH THAT BULLSHIT!!!

The CONSERVATIVES will be the ruin of the Democrats!!!

Obama needs to sign what the process produces.

By and large, members of the Progressive Caucus are very popular in their home districts; at the very least, their constituents want them to push for public option.

As it is, Obama is already negotiating with Republicans -- by dealing directly with industry lobbyists.

when they gave away single-payer without a fight.

This is not an issue of the center versus the left. It is a battle between the corporations and their bought politicians on the one hand, and the American people on the other.

into two parties in 2012 unless Obama starts listening to progressives and responding to us. The Republicans are already split. The extreme right thinks it owns that party. A sizable number of Republicans do not agree with their ignorant stances. As for Obama, we progressives saw what the Clinton compromises did to our party, NAFTA, the rendition of prisoners, the eavesdropping on electronic communications, changes in the laws concerning broadcasting. All of those things weakened us. The Clinton administration hurt working and middle class people.

Being a "Democrat" is not enough for us. We want real reform.

Obama promised change but now that he is in office, he is just delivering more DLC compromise with the corporations and right-wing nuts.

Obama hasn't pushed for the most elementary things like prosecutions for authorizing torture. Mind you, George Washington established a tradition of treating all prisoners with respect. In the Revolutionary War, he even ordered respectful treatment of the Hessians who were brutal murderers of our surrendering troops. Yet Obama is tacitly approving torture. Shame on him.

Obama has not delivered when it comes to union rights, to torture, to human rights of prisoners in general, to eavesdropping laws, or to the reform or repeal of abusive and vaguely written portions of the Patriot Act. What was that definition of terrorism again? Seems overbroad to me. How does it differentiate between an act of vandalism and an act of terrorism? By the motivation of the perpetrator? Is the jury supposed to guess what went on in the mind of the defendant? Measure that by the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and what do you have? In addition, Obama has not been serious about getting lobbyists out of the White House. (He has repeatedly exempted members of his administration.)

Obama's choice of economic advisers is appalling. All of those he chose are conservatives. How dare he claim to be a Democrat and yet appoint Bernanke who is a fanatical free market advocate and Bush appointee to a second term at the Fed? That is not change. How dare he increase the power of the Fed by giving advocating that they should have the authority to oversee many transactions in the financial sector? And then there are the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. What are his goals. What are the benchmarks? Remember those? How much of our human and monetary treasure is enough to spend on those adventures? I'm not against the War in Afghanistan, but what is the specific goal?

So far, Obama has let progressives down on virtually every issue. Don't go on about SCHIP and the Lilly Ledbetter Act. Those were no-brainers and not particularly progressive in nature.

If he lets us down with regard to a robust public option, he will not have our support in time to get us out in our precincts for the 2010 congressional race. I'm to the point that I am thinking about ways to back alternative candidates. Don't tell me my vote will be wasted. I'm beginning to feel that I already wasted it in 2008. We got a huge majority out for Obama. The right-wing is organizing an excited opposition to him. The center is not inspired and, without our urging and a stellar economy, likely to either stay home or vote for anyone but Obama.

Obama has to get some courage and do something unpredictable that shows that he has some strong convictions. A public option is his best bet. If he lets us down, we will not forget it.

Yes, that was the intent of the letter. Polite but firm-saying WE NEED THE PUBLIC OPTION.


BRAVO.

......The emphasis reflects a political judgment that satisfying those already insured is more important. (Earlier in the day, the briefing was advertised as on-the-record, but just before it began, the ground rules were changed.)

Progressives, however, are trying to force the president in their direction. "I think the people who believe in public option are not going to be moved by the speech or by some representation that something is better than nothing," said Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.).

"What I'm experiencing is a stronger commitment to it than I even saw in terms of when I was really working hard on . People would say, 'Well, yeah, I'm with you,' but you didn't get the feeling they were really with you and that if they got lobbied by the leadership they would change. I don't get that with this. I get very strong feelings about it."

Waters said that progressive co-chair Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) told her that the whip count would start early next week. Woolsey was traveling home Friday and unavailable..........

Here's a great response to this quote:

If the public option is just a minor distraction, then why don't moderate and conservative Democrats just give into the Progressives? Seriously--if the public option is so meaningless, then what's the big deal? Just give into the demands, and pass the bill.

(or perhaps,a realist), one could argue that the PO was nothing more than a carrot on a stick being dangled in front of the voters to get the present administration elected, a means to an end, nothing more.

It could be argued that, while words expressing support for the PO are nice, actions speak much more loudly.

It could be argued that the administration, who dangled this carrot is now pandering to everyone who has a vested interest in opposing said carrot, for instance, repubs, Dinos, Blue Cross Dogs, big Pharma, and last, but certainly not least, the Health Insurance Industry, who funds said Administration and both parties in Congress. of course, pandering to these entities necessitates throwing the progressive dems and the majority of the American public under the bus.

It could be argued that IF there is a PO, emphasis on the "IF", it will be accompanied by Triggers, and will be so watered down, it will resemble nothing more than a bowl of stone soup.

It could be argued that the deal is already done, and has been from the beginning.

It could be argued.......if one were a cynic (or a realist).

i don't remember the term 'public option' ever being used until after the election.

bill Obama will have to stop ignoring the liberals/progressives, who are in fact the ones who worked hardest to get him elected. I am tired of being taken for granted. He needs us and the sooner OBAMA REALIZES THAT FACT the better for his continued success. We need single payer, but we MUST have a public option; anything less is just more corporate giveaway. I see above that Norma Rae died today, apparently because it took her insurance company two months to okay crucial medicine, that might have saved her life. SHE HAD INSURANCE.

go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, 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go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

DON'T LET US DOWN PROGRESSIVE HOUSE MEMBERS. WE NEED YOU!!

I am tired of compromise. We need to be as tough as the bullies we are fighting and make them back down for a change. Progressives like me got this President AND this Congress elected, and by GOD, they better start acting like our opinions matter or they will regret it. Progressives are a minority in Congress, but they have constituencies that will elect them over and over. Look at Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich and Barney Frank. They are not worried about getting re-elected, they are working to get our business done. It is the Blue Dogs; Democrats from conservative districts who are calculating how to get re-elected in a conservative district. Well, guess what? I'm talking to you Mark Begich, Senator from Alaska, and all like you. We progressives are the ones who worked to put you there, and you need to forget about calculating how to appease the conservatives in your state, because they didn't vote for you last time, and they won't vote for you next time. You need to start listening to us, your constituents - the people who actually voted for you and ignore the opinions of those who didn't. Take a lesson from Don Young, he has been my representative for 30+ years and never listened to a word I said, because he only cares about the opinions of the people who vote for him, which I never have. So progressives are not worried about re-election and blue dogs are, which makes them weaker by definition. We need to stop letting them push us around, and start dictating to them. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid need to start twisting arms behind closed doors the way Tom Delay did for the Republicans to such horrible effect. They got their agenda passed, despite the will of the people, and we need to do the same. We don't need all the democrats to vote for the bill, but we DO need them to stand together to shut down the Republican filibuster machine. And if the blue dogs won't do this for us, they must be punished by having every one of them lose their seats in important committees and be relegated to the sidelines with the republicans. This legislation is MUST DO and it will be worthless without the public option, as it will give 47 million more customers to the insurance companies with no enforcement mechanism to lower costs. There is only one acceptable alternative to the public option, but I believe it will be harder to pass. And that is to regulate the health insurance industry like a public utility, with the government dictating everything from rates to executive compensation. Investors in Health care would have to settle for the ho-hum returns of a public utility. That would work, but I believe it would be harder to pass than the public option. So let's stand together, hang tough and GET IT DONE!

,...of the public option (although, I still believe single-payer would be the most economically viable health care system option).

that have indicated their opposition to any bill that does NOT include a public option:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6536168

The public option is already the compromise. Single-payer as part of a national health care plan is the real solution to the health care problem.

Any bill that doesn't have a strong public option (and not an "emergency only" trigger) should be soundly defeated in the House.

Thank you, progressives.

If Democrats piss away their mandate after taking Congress and the Presidency on watered-down corporate welfare to the insurance industry, then they will deserve the losses they will take in the next election.

And Nobody Thought to Say “What Deal”?
By: Jane Hamsher
Saturday September 12, 2009 1:03 pm

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/12/and-nobody-thought-to-say-what-deal/

David Kirkpatrick in the New York Times writes about the warring health care industry stakeholders, and their fight to carve up the medical industrial complex bailout pie. We are truly ruled by lobbyists:

Hospital lobbyists, like the drug makers, have a deal with the White House to limit their costs and are pushing hard to pass a bill. But the hospitals are haggling with the Senate Finance Committee over another proposal: a newly empowered Medicare oversight board that could impose payment reductions.

Two hospital lobbyists, speaking anonymously because the discussions are confidential, say their deal should protect them from further cuts the board might seek. White House officials dispute that, though when asked about the matter recently, Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, said the hospital deal included cuts it might have taken a decade to achieve.

It's amazing how they can go from never inquiring about the deals made over the summer between the Baucus Caucus and stakeholders to the presumption that everyone knows what they are in one clean leap.

And still we get reporting like this:

Sept. 4, 2009: CNN has learned that the White House is quietly talking about drafting formal health care legislation after allowing Congress to work on its own for months.

How does "negotiating the deals with lobbyists who expect them to be memorialized in the Baucus bill" jibe with "allowing Congress to work on its own for months"?