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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:29 PM
Original message
The Pentagon's Secret Scream

SOUTH POMFRET, Vt. — Marines arriving in Iraq this month as part of a massive troop rotation will bring with them a high-tech weapon never before used in combat — or in peacekeeping. The device is a powerful megaphone the size of a satellite dish that can deliver recorded warnings in Arabic and, on command, emit a piercing tone so excruciating to humans, its boosters say, that it causes crowds to disperse, clears buildings and repels intruders.

" most people, even if they plug their ears, will produce the equivalent of an instant migraine," says Woody Norris, chairman of American Technology Corp., the San Diego firm that produces the weapon. "It will knock on their knees."

American Technology says its new product "is designed to determine intent, change behavior and support various rules of engagement." The company is careful in its public relations not to refer to the megaphone as a weapon, or to dwell on the debilitating pain American forces will be able to deliver with it. The military has been equally reticent on the subject.

And that's a problem. The new sound weapon might, in some scenarios, save lives. It might provide a good alternative to lethal force in riot situations, as its proponents assert. But the U.S. is making a huge mistake by trying to quietly deploy a new pain-inducing weapon without first airing all of the legal, policy and human rights issues associated with it.


...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-arkin7mar07,1,3605986.story
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. The thing that worries me about this device
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 12:33 PM by khephra
Is it's just begging to be used as a form of torture. How long before some person straps a subject down where they can't get away while they repeatedly use this "non-weapon" on them?
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loftycity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Just finished "The Biggest Secret" over the weekend
This just fits with the agenda.
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Pale_Rider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
98. Damn straight out of Dune ...
... weirding modules!



It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

Author unknown ...
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is this like the sonar that makes the whales and dolphins heads explode?
Sorry.. but I swear this is what they were testing on those poor sea mammals.. I once had a notion to write a screenplay about a noise just like this.. an unseen, untrackable instrument of horror. A noise so loud that you could not eat, think, or sleep. Now I see the Pentagon has made this horror a reality. Gosh, I wonder why the rest of the world hates our guts?
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politick Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. All the better
It would make your screenplay that much more timely.

Or maybe "Law & Order" can rip it from the headlines...
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littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anyone willing to take bets on how long it will be before this
device is used to crush peaceful dissent in our country?

Can anyone say Republican convention?
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yep, coming soon to a "First Amendment Zone" near you
Miami Police, take note.

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CaptainClark23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
85. Takes note
and adds ear protection to the RNC supply list.

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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. not too long
the Police State comes...
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. It will be used against US citizens
If they can shoot people peacefully protesting the Iraqi war, or globalization, with rubber bulletsand pepper-spray -- they will certainly use this against "mobs" of Americans who will protest this administration.

They very well might lose the election outright this year -- but if they don't, and Americans, who have finally caught on to what we have known all along, summon up the guts to rise up against them by marching on Wachington -- you can be sure this weapon will be used against us. And Bush lickspittles will go on tv and say how LUCKY we are to be able to *only* be attacked by a sonic weapon, because if we had been protesting, say, Saddam Hussein, we would have been mowed down by bullets. God bless America.

It's just a matter of time.

There has not been a change in the status of posse commitatus since 2001. We can only hope that moral American soldiers will refuse to use this weapon against their fellow Americans. His Chimperial Highness is going to have to form a "Republican Guard" of loyalists, who hold him above our nation and our constitution, and rely on them to use this weapon against us.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I like your take: Dumbya will soon need his own "Republican Guard"
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. IDF hirelings
Would suffer no moral dilemma in attacking Americans. They are also the best-trained corporate proxy storm troopers Bu$h has.

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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. You got it littlejoe.
I also thought the same when I read the article. I'm betting they're gearing up to use it at the first sign of "insurgency" here.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
73. My thoughts exactly!
You can BET your bottom dollar they'll use it here.

Bake
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. THis is what happens when the Pentagon has too much power/money.
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 12:51 PM by Dover
They are not inclined toward the protection of people's rights, the environment or even peace. Their inclination is to control...

What effect will this device have on humans and animals (biologically, physically, mentally?).
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. The alternative
the alternatives are tear gas and "rubber" (i.e. rubber-coated lead) bullets, or even live ammunition. All can kill. If this reduces the risks to civilians, its a good thing.
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yea but...
A bit more from the piece...

So shouldn't we have a similar discussion about high-intensity sound, which can cause permanent hearing loss or even cellular damage? The new megaphone being deployed to Iraq can operate at 145 decibels at 300 yards, according to American Technology, well above the normal threshold for pain.

...

I think I'd take a rubber bullet over losing my hearing or receiving cellular damage
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. What about children and animals in range?
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 01:31 PM by BeHereNow
I would think this thing would kill birds and small animals.
The damage to children in the vincinity could be horrific.
Think of this in terms of an infant being bombarded by this noise!

I am so angered at the thought of our tax dollars being
funneled into the creation of such an inhumane and a non-discriminating
weapon. It just affirms the fact that these people have NO regard
for innocents.
I would think this thing is huge violation of international laws protecting civilians
who are unfortunate enough to be trapped in a war zone.
Rule of Law? Geneva Convention? UN Charter?
Oh that's right, Bush and his evil tribe of X-tians are above all that.
BHN
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mithnanthy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. BHN...my thoughts too!
How inhumane to anything within ear-shot! It reflects the "compassion" of this administration.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
71. Sorry, no.
This is not the creation of this administration, but of our military-industrial complex. If you think this is bad, much worse things have continued to be worked on for forty years running.

Changing the administration will not change the problem; it is in our culture. We have allowed the Pentagon power not accountable to anybody in the executive branch.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. psychopomp, this administration is but a figurehead.

It's a figurehead and mouthpiece for the military-congressional-industrial complex that eisenhower warned us about. Even Washington had pretty much the same to say in his departure speech.

And don't exempt the executive branch. Any elected official, including and in this case especially, the pResident, gets there by begging for money and the money comes from the military-congressional-industrial complex. See how it works? It's a self powering machine.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Portland police used pepper spray on an infant - this wouldn't faze them.
Police state, anyone? What's next, IDF tactics used on American citizens?

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Mokito Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
77. That's indeed a very good question you pose.
Edited on Mon Mar-08-04 02:19 AM by Mokito
There's no way these sound waves can be accurately targeted, is there? Then everyone and everything in hearing range will suffer from it and obviously, not everyone or everything has the same threshold. I think this "weapon" will cause some great controversies is the not so distant future.
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Cellular damage?
You don't think "rubber" bullets can cause cellular damage? Do you know what a rubber bullet is? Its a normal bullet, fired from a normal rifle, with a thin layer of rubber around it that is supposed to prevent it from piercing the skin or fragmenting. But it has the same force as a normal bullet, it breaks bones, and it can very easily kill.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
66. None on record yet, guy!
A bb gun can kill if it hit in the right spot, 'eh?
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #66
83. Rubber bullets are not BBs
They're real bullets which can cause real damage.

Rubber Bullets Don't Get Rubber Stamp

(AP) Some types of rubber bullets used by police to restrain unruly protesters kill and maim too often to be considered a safe method of crowd control, new research concludes.

Rubber-coated bullets are intended to inflict superficial painful injuries to deter rioters. But a study of their use by Israeli security forces has found police often fire from too close and aim poorly. Even when fired properly, it said, the bullets are so inaccurate that they can cause unintended injuries.

--MORE--

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/24/health/main510084.shtml
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #83
97. "Rubber bullets" used in Israel are not the same ones used in the U.S.
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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
64. That is torture, pure and simple. Sorry.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Alternatives start with respect for free speech..and for human dignity.
So much of government policy amounts to ...(given that we got ourselves in this ugly, ugly mess...)..we have no choice but to act now.

Given that we jammed together disparate cultures after WW2 into a single mideastern country..given that, we needed to have a strongarm to run the place..given that, we helped a brutal guy get biological and chemical weapons..given that, we attacked .. given that, we must occupy..given that, we are occupying ..given that, we must suppress the crowds..

Given that we have momentum in our downward spiral to hell, we have no choice but to go down another rung.

'Dreamer, go back to sleep, and leave the world to we pragmatics' I can hear a chorus shouting.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Toddler mother knows: environment you create and expectations you set
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 02:52 PM by lostnfound
make a difference.

The people that run this country say 'the kid is screaming, I have no choice but to belt him one'..'The kid is a monster, I have to treat him like an animal.'..and on and on and on.

They say "we have no other choice".

The people who decided to develop such weapons have already lost any battle worth fighting.
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Respect for Free Speech is all well and good
but you're avoiding real problems our troops are facing in Iraq. What do you do when American troops are charged by Sunni mobs, with AK-47-wielding insurgents interspersed among women and children? This happens regularly in the so-called Sunni Triangle.

So far, American troops have usually retreated. But what if one day their exit is cut off? If they don't want to die, they'll fire into the crowd. And that's a hell of a lot worse than a loud megaphone.

Given that we jammed together disparate cultures after WW2 into a single mideastern country

What are you talking about? The US had no role in the creation of the State of Iraq, which was established in 1932. Are you making this up as you go along?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. We need to get the troops the hell out of Iraq.
Bring in the UN, after releasing our tenuous grip on the the oil and cancelling all contracts (a la Halliburton), pay reparations for the damage and death caused by the United States (I likewise demand Britain, Australia, and Spain should also pay), and bring our troops home.

This mess is another Vietnam. We'll never win, and we'll either leave of our own volition or be driven out. Every minute there is another minute of illegal occupation, and the counter-insurgents attacking our boys and girls will not stop fighting the invaders, no matter how many "kindler, gentler" crowd control tactics are used. The vast majority of deaths are not from mob-versus-troops situations, anyway.

Poster did inaccurately assign the creation of Iraq to America rather than Britain, but I think that was an honest mistake.

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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Is that a fact?
I personally don't think Iraq is unwinnable at all. I think a competent Administration could succeed in creating a stable, democratic government. Will it cost many hundreds of billions? Absolutely. And many Americans will die. Was the war worth it? No. But to cut and run would be the biggest mistake we could make. The UN won't come in as it is. They can't protect themselves. They need Americans to guarantee security so they can work on what they do best - civilian reconstruction. We should bring in NATO, but the UN can't provide a meaningful security role.

The vast majority of deaths are not from mob-versus-troops situations, anyway.

I'm sorry? I'm talking about Iraqi deaths, not American deaths. If an Iraqi mob attacks an American convoy, and the Americans feel they cannot retreat and that their lives are threatened, they're not going to just sit and die - they'll fire on the mob. That's not idle speculation, that's fact. And its perfectly justified. It would also mean many dead noncombattants. This is an attempt to avoid that scenario. Take it or leave it.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #58
78. Oops, I misread that.
"I'm talking about Iraqi deaths, not American deaths."

Sorry about that - I did make that mistake in my post.

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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. You seem to constantly ignore the real problems the Iraqi's face.....
.....from the illegal presence of our soldiers in their country! :evilfrown:

Or do you back Bush* and his preemptive invasions based on lies? :shrug:
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #65
86. No I don't back Bush and his invasion of Iraq
But the fact is we have invaded and our troops are there. And the question is where do we go from here and how we can minimize the damage. Immediate withdrawal would result in maximum harm.
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. That's like raping a woman because she was in a bad relationship.....
......and now that you realize she doesn't want a relationship with you, you have to keep going until she enjoys it your way because someone else might rape her worse! :crazy:

:kick:U.S. OUT! U.N. IN!:kick:

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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Bizarre and tasteless analogy
We've destroyed the country. If we leave now, it'll get even worse. We should at least rebuild the country to the point where it was when we invaded. That much we're morally obligated to do.
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. It's a bizarre and tasteless invasion.....
.....and we're only obligated to pay for the damages not to force a form of government on them that they don't want and will never accept.
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Pay whom?
There is nobody to pay. If we leave there will be chaos.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
81. I was speaking in cultural, not national, terms--including Brits as 'we'.
The perspective you are presenting makes logical sense, if you think in linear terms, as our policy-makers and weapons-planners do so well.

If a wise man were to give advice on the subject, he would probably tell a story of a boy becoming the ugly giant which he had so hated, through a series of utilitarian choices to become ever-less-human. At some point, you have to decide what kind of culture or nation you want to be.

This idea of a noise weapon instead of lethal force has a glossy shiny appeal -- no dead bodies left behind sounds very good -- but its effect may well be to remove the last vestiges of self-determination among the people.

I am speaking from the heart on this one. We are throwing another ugly genie into the polluted river of life with this one, and we don't know where it will go. Men in power today simply know that it will be useful for them.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Like the 'pragmatics' (in actuality, sadists) who approve of torture.
How "progressive" a stance, eh?

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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Coming soon: Civilians=terrorists
"given that, we must suppress the crowds.." Given that, we must suppress the allies of terrorism, given that, we must treat allies of terrorism as terrorists, given that....

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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
59. If civilians = terrorists, then there would be no need
for crowd dispersing weapons. The Army would just fire indiscriminately into crowds.

Note that that hasn't happened.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #59
89. but they have fired into crowds. Where you been?
this has happened repeatedly in Iraq, in places where people were protesting things like lack of jobs.

Halliburton is importing cheaper workers into Iraq, rather than using Iraqis. I'll ask again -- where you been?
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #59
106. 2 words: Kent State.
And that is because it was widly publicized.

I seriously don't doubt there have been many more not as widely reported.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. The alternative
is democratic restraint on the part of police instead of jack-booted thuggery evident in Miami.

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peterh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thought that this has been around for some time…
In the form of “Clear Channel”…..they’re an instant migraine….
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mobuto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Talent on Loan from God!
At this point, Iraqi insurgents are smashing rocks against their own heads.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. Counter-insurgents. Allied troops are the insurgents in this debacle.
From a strictly legal point-of-view, the invaders (us) are the insurgents. The Iraqis fighting the invaders are counter-insurgents.

I know, I know, Rummy's talking points have a way of getting stuck in one's brain, but we must do our best to call things as they truly are.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. This reminds me of Janet Reno and the Davidians. Bombarding them
with sound to drive them out. I thought that was dreadful then, and I think that this is equally disturbing.

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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Such weapons
can and will work in both directions in time.

180
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. aha....trial run for this device in iraq
how long do you think it will be until they put it to use here in the u.s. great way to break up those "pesky activists and antiwar protesters", eh? nonlethal too.../sarcasm
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Will the operators of this device use ear protection? And, if so, how...
...does the protection work?
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
90. no need. It's directional
like a spotlight, only it's sound.

If you've ever used an electronic bullhorn (or been standing in front of someone using it) you realize how directional and ear-splitting such things can be.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. Does the Pentagon have a
little House of Horrors where deranged people gather to create this kind of stuff?

Instead of worrying about gay people threatening American marriages, Bush should be in the White House latrine throwing up over all the terror he has caused, including this new, instant migraine device. I`m really fed up.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. So it's come to this...a tool of torture...
So we, the so-called superior country on this earth, have used our technology to torture people?

God help us.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. American Technology Corp. can make you hear voices inside your head
too. They have a U.S Patent on that technological leap. They aren't the only company involved in this.
http://www.raven1.net/5159703.htm

American Technology Corp. has weaponized a lot of things under contract to the DoD.
http://www.raven1.net/hssweapon.htm

American Technology Corp. executives have engaged in insider trading.
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/14/1529.html

Some of their other products may be listed in this USAF Non-Lethal Terms and References paper. Although dated and non-classified, the scope of some of this stuff {and the potential for abuse} is staggering.
http://www.adacomp.net/~mcherney/nonlethal.html

The development of all this has alarmed psychiatric professionals because of diagnostic traditions re: hearing voices inside one's head being a past sign of mental illness.
http://www.adacomp.net/~mcherney/NewCrit-JPSS-CS2.htm

All this stuff is located somewhere in the realm of mind control, our biggest secret. The term itself may set you off because of the negative associations, nevertheless it is quite real.






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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. These are the "weapons of mind control". Huge profit for investors
REUTERS ABRIDGED BUSINESS SUMMARY
American Technology Corporation is engaged in the design, development and commercialization of sound, acoustic and other technologies. The Company produces products based on its HyperSonic Sound (HSS), Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD), NeoPlanar and Purebass sound technologies. The HSS technology is a new method of sound reproduction that creates sound in the air. Sound is generated along an air column using ultrasonic frequencies, those above the normal range of hearing. The LRAD technology produces variable intensity acoustical sound intended for use in long-range delivery of directional sound information, effectively a supercharged megaphone. The NeoPlanar technology is a thin film magnetic speaker that produces sound of high quality, low distortion and high volume. The PureBass extended range woofer employs unique cabinet construction, novel vent configurations and multiple acoustic filters to minimize distortion and provide high output.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=atco

REUTERS ABRIDGED FINANCIAL SUMMARY
For the three months ended 12/31/03, revenues rose 83% to $774.8 million. Net loss applicable to Comm. fell 24% to $1.4 million. Revenues reflect an increase in government sales of LRAD and NeoPLanar products. Net loss was partially offset by a decline in interest expenses.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=atco
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. Richard McGarrah Helms submitted a proposal to research
mind control to the CIA. Allen Dulles approved it on 4-13-53.
This research carried the designation MKULTRA, and involved at least 149 sub-projects at 80 institutions.
{Source:SCOTUS decision, 4-16-85, CIA vs. Sims}

We are talking about 50 years of "research" here, who knows what this has led to?

Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence link
http://www.datafilter.com/mc/remoteBehavioralInfluence.html
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. MK-ULTRA, anyone? Project Artichoke?
I don't know how these guys sleep at night. I truly don't.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. I am TOTALLY freaked by the last link!
THIS line shook me to the bone!

"and another to use holographic projection to
disseminate propaganda and misinformation."

About five years ago I had a very disturbing dream.
With out going into too many details, briefly it went like this:

I am at my parents house in the back yard.
Suddenly there is this HUGE image of Jesus in the
sky. People begin running all around panic stricken and
shouting "Oh my God it's true, the Bible is true!"
I have an EXTREMELY scared feeling, something is not
right, this is not in the Bible, it doesn't happen this way.
Suddenly there are all these "angel-type" people infiltrating
the crowd. They are waving these strange "wands" around
and people seem to be calming down. The "Angels"
start to herd people towards a barrack like building and tell them
to go inside and wait. Several people are so happy,
convinced that Jesus has come. (I am thinking to myself,
THIS does not fit scripture) but the others seem to have NO
doubts.
We enter the building and there are long tables with cake for us
to eat. "Another bastardization of scripture..." I am thinking,
as I grow increasingly frightened.
I notice guards at the doors, black uniforms like the riot
control police. I ask one of the "angels" who they are, why are they
guarding the doors? The "angel" tells me they are there to keep the
"unsaved" out...I am now completely freaked and I start to look
for an escape route. I jump out of a window and start
running like hell- tanks are chasing me and the big ole picture
of Jesus in the sky is still there. The last thing that goes through
my mind is "Even the elect will be decieved." I woke up in
absolute terror.

Having read about the dominionists and the develop of these
weapons, I can totally see something like this happening now.
The staged return of Jeebus that "even the elect" would be
decieved by...
BHN



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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. I wonder how many people have had similar dreams?
You aren't alone when it comes to the fear that BFEE could be up to staging the end times-this crew is capable of anything and would use these technologies to promote their agenda IMO.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. It is prophesy-
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 09:41 PM by BeHereNow
Read Revelations 13, and tell me God is not warning
us of who the shrub is.
I nearly fell out of my chair when he made his little
Isaiah blasphemy on the boat.
In Rev 13 it talks about the beast seeming to have
"fatal wound" (George's alcohol problem) "but the
wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished
and followed the beast." (think of the fundie dominionists)
"the beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and
blasphemies.." " he was given authority over every tribe.
people, language and nation"
Later the chapter refers to a SECOND beast who
appears who exercises all the authority given the first.
"And he performed great and miraculous signs," (warned
against earlier in NT- Matthew) "even causing fire to come down
from heaven to earth in full view of men"

That article you posted made me think of this verse.
Fire, uh radiation?
This is also the section of the Bible that discusses the
"mark" and people being forced to receive it.
All I can think of is Darpa and their bizzaro experiments
and partnership with ENTRUST and Nortel to tag us all
like cattle.
DAMN disturbing things going on folks.
Specially for the Christians who see the
correlations to the REAL scriptures.
Not the blasphemous ones the Dominionist leader
is spouting.
BHN

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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
100. Interesting... I had something similar but not similar ...
It seemed like there was chaos (storms/tornadoes, etc.) and everyone was running for cover/protection. There were these huge machines that looked like hamburger presses with LOUD VOICES over intercom type gadgets telling the people to make their way to these devices and be spared/saved.

I ran up to one and watched as people went in, but when you saw their faces after they got inside it was pure hell/torment and an OMG! I ran immediately and woke up scared to death because it was so real and I will never forget the dream.

The people were totally scared and clueless willing to do whatever those herding the masses told them to do!

This dream was probably 15 to 20 years ago now and when you shared your dream it was like dejavu all over again!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #100
105. YIKES! Did you see this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x413524
another lbn thread from tonight about a Russian scientist
patenting a device to put adverstisments in space!
Just a LITTLE to close to my dream.
BTW-
"The people were totally scared and clueless
willing to do whatever those herding the masses
told them to do!
Fits the crowd scene in my dream too.
I will never forget mine either.
I felt as though I was being warned.
The more I find out about the dominionists and
the secret military weapons, the more freaked
out I get.
BHN
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. In the 1990s...
...the Pentagon and the Department of Justice came together to give money to defense contractors to retool their industry for civilian applications. Citizens were referred to as "urban hostiles" in the literature of this new agenda. Many new weapons were developed, including supersticky foam that immobilizes a person and deprives the victim of all sensory awareness, laser beams that heat a person's innards making them so sick they are neutralized, and other such approaches to crowd control.

I know because I have the press materials from the conference, which was called "Law Enforcement Technology for the 21st Century" and a copy of the memo of cooperation between the DoJ and the DoD. Yes, it was on Janet Reno's watch.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Would this explain the satellite-dish-size things at protests in Miami?
There was a lot of speculation, but nobody ever said precisely what they were. :shrug:
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Parabolic microphones?
like the ones used on the sidelines at a football game.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Don't know; haven't been able to find the photo I'm thinking of
that shows the "dish".
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Did they look like this?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. What I remember seeing was mounted on some strange mil. vehicle.
The device was black, with curved top/bottom and straight sides. Hard to tell how big it was, but probably a couple of feet across. I've looked all thru the pics I had bookmarked and didn't see it. I really need to clean out my bookmarks, though. :)
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. LOL! My kid has one of those!
No, more than likely this is what they saw in Miami.



More info &imgrefurl=http://www.cybertime.net/~ajgood/mlaw1.html&h=168&w=220&sz=15&tbnid=mhjfy8FMVr0J:&tbnh=77&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmicrowave,%2B%2522crowd%2Bcontrol%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN">here.

Remember kiddies, Tinfoil, it's not just for head wear anymore! :evilgrin:

Keep in mind that enough people holding up window screens or foil lined emergency blankets at the right angle can bounce all that energy back at the source. A high enough VSWR (Voltage Standing Wave Ratio) can overload the transmitter and blow it up. What a waste of our tax money.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
53. Is the one you're thinking about...
the big round device sitting on the truck bed? If so, let me know..
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I remember one mounted on a military vehicle.
Those weird looking tankish looking things. :shrug:
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Yes, that's the one..n/t
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ThirdEye Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. Well, maybe...
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 03:35 PM by ThirdEye
I do happen to know that an LRAD was in Miami. However, as far as I have been told, it was never used. It was actually going to be its first fielding. Dead serious.

However, personally, I don't necessarily see the problem with having this kind of technology... then again I'm very much in favor of personal gun rights. It's not LRAD that is dangerous, it's the legisation/laws that would allow it to be used against ourselves.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Laws don't stop the elite. Look at Waco. Ruby Ridge. Miami FTAA protests.
NT!

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rawtribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #42
102. I don't remember where I got this quote.

" Daniel Goldhagen's controversial 1996 book "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" pointed out an obvious truth: that the Nazis could never have triumphed, retained power or gotten anything done without the explicit complicity of the people they ruled. Therefore, Goldhagen argued--and thoughtful people agree--the failure of the German people to resist Hitler made them just as guilty as he was.

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sungkathak Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Haven't they killed whales already by super sonic divice?
And covertly inspect and survey and control US people with other high tech. device such like micro wave ray and EM wave.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. As someone who's played electric guitar for years
I can tell you the power of raw sound..

I turned on my amp once while sitting on the floor in front of it, it was turned up full blast on the volume and the feedback was so loud that my EYES actually CROSSED.. seriously..

I punched the amp to shut it up in a nanosecond - there was real pain involved and it was automatic :) but I'll never forget it..

..why not just MICROWAVE these crowds and get it over with you bastards.

by the way, they have worse stuff than this.. they did well over 20 years ago when I was in the USAF and had a Top Secret Clearance..
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. What did you do in the USAF?
My dad was in AFSOC, dove with Seal Team Six. Lots of things he can't tell me about.

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Purchasing..
all kinds of goodies.. joysticks for SR 71s, all the tools and implements of destruction, not to mention, selling off US BAse buildings for a Buck.. one single dollar..

I was also one of those guys purchasing the infamous 600 dollar toilet seats :)

Once a General put in a Purchase order for Carpet for his doghouse --

I called him and told him, "This is Purchasing and we aren't going to buy any carpet for your damn doghouse.."

He got all uppity (as Generals are wont to do) and started screaming at me, "Do you KNOW WHO I AM?"

"Yeah", I said, "You're General such and such.. do you know who *I* am?"

He said, "No.."

and I replied, "Then F*CK you General.." and hung up the phone..

I immediately ran off to my Office commander (a Bird Colonel) and told him.."Uh, I think I just made a mistake.."

He said, "No problem son, I'll take care of this -- and We aren't buying any carpet for HIS Damned Doghouse.."

:)
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Great story *LOL*
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
79. HA! That's a great story!
Keep on rocking, man. I saw the video about Novak's assult on that guy. I hate that traitor!


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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. There is evidence of a covert arms race between the US and USSR
to develop these technologies, which we won.
http://www.mindjustice.org/book_frameset.htm
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
51. These systems and devices are so secret that when an Ohio Congressman
sponsored an Act of Congress, all references to "exotic weapons" in the original language of HR2977/The Space Preservation Act of 2001 had disappeared from the revision, HR3616/The Space Preservation Act of 2002.
http://www.raven1.net/govptron.htm

Here is another link about exotic weapons, by Dr. Nick Begich
http://www.adacomp.net/~mcherney/starwars.html
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. The TLC Or The Science Channel Had A Story About This Recently
And they even had a demonstration of it.

-- Allen
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Serendipity36 Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. This is pure evil
All weapons cause pain. These wars are intolerable. This sound torture device will hurt innocent little children. What's wrong with our people to want to do this?

PEACE!!!!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Welcome to DU, Serendipity36!
:hi:

It is a sad fact that human history has shown the results of utilizing all scientific/technological progress to be first and foremost the development of weapons and the art of war.

We now have 21st century tech that is virtually capable of what has been called magic or miracles, even the creation of new life-forms and God like power over nature, in the hands of George W. Bush aka The War President- whose evil crew is truly capable of anything.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
60. Churchill - "a new dark age made more sinister and
more prolonged by the lights of a perverted science". Whatever you think about him, he had a way with words.

Just think, if this sort of thing would have been available at Kent State in 1971, the Viet Nam war might have enjoyed a much longer run.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
69. For Crap Sake! Why in hell do we need
Edited on Sun Mar-07-04 09:34 PM by Sugarbleus
equippment like that!!?!

Just another waste of tax payers money; I guess rubber bullets and water cannons aren't "good" enough anymore. Just say no to the war machine!
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
70. These guys are soooo stupid!
You'd think that after designing their microwave truck for crowd control and then realizing after the fact that something as simple as a metal window screen, roll of tinfoil or foil lined emergency blanket can render it totally ineffective they'd get the hint. This is more of the same only at a different frequency. Can you say phase cancellation boys and girls? GOOD, I knew you could! Simply rewire the microphone on a megaphone or portable PA system so that it's output is out of phase with the original input and let the laws of physics do the rest! :evilgrin:
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #70
80. And how is that supposed to happen during a protest?
Protestors don't usualy have a truck with another huge microphone ready.
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #80
92. Boy scout motto.....
.....Be Prepared! :evilgrin:

Look, you've been warned! You know that they have this equipment and are just hoping to get the chance to use it so the best thing to do at this point is to understand the technology and develop a counter to it. :)

This device works by aiming high pressure sound waves at the 'target' inducing pain and nausea. Those sound waves are at 135 - 140 db @ 300 yards. A megaphone with a suitable modification to it's input can put out about 85 - 100 db. Simply allow the megaphone to pick up the sound waves and phase invert them. The result is that the high pressure waves are 'knocked down' to an acceptable level. It doesn't hurt to carry a foil lined emergency blanket and a megaphone to a protest.

It seems that a lot of people are testing this technology in their cars in my neighborhood. You can hear them coming from blocks away!
THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! BANG! THUMP!, THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! BANG! THUMP!
Perhaps they're trying to build up a resistance? :shrug: :)
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
74. Wouldn't this harm our own troops caught up in any disturbance ?
Wouldn't this have the same debilitating effects on any troops or police deployed into the 'problem' area that it was aimed at?

The potential for 'friendly fire' problems with this scheme seem incredibly high to me, but then Bushco really doesn't care about own guys either do they ? do they ?
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
76. Oppression without visible scars is goint to be the norm. Less media. n/t
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. How to beat a man and not leave a mark
You are correct. :toast:

Julie
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
82. There's gotta be a Dean joke in there somewhere.
"I have a Scream."
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progressiverealist Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
91. how long before they use this to disperse crowds here in the USA
Protest Bush, lose your hearing. It's coming, if Bush wins re-election.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
93. Like the Taser
now being used to torture people by police everywhere.
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
96. Question
Edited on Mon Mar-08-04 12:15 PM by wabeewoman
I didn't see an answer in the article. What protects the soldiers delivering this sound? If earplugs don't work, you must need special ear protectors. So they will put these on ALL the soldiers?? And could these sound waves be 'bounced back' at the sender? Rumsfield in charge of these kind of weapons...very scary.

on edit: I re-read the posts and see the answer about sound being focused.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
99. So they're bringing a Diamanda Galas CD to Iraq.
I recommend "Shrei." I've always found that'll clear a room.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
101. If I build one, am I a terrorist?
How about if I publish plans on the internet?

Hypothetically, of course...
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. Good question hunter.....
....If I publicly discuss how to protect myself or my children from this monstrosity, am I a terrorist? :shrug: :evilgrin:

The laws of physics belong to us all!
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
104. So what happens if a sniper targets the dish?
Is it still functional after hit by a bullet? I don't think something like this could last long in a hostile environment, even with its painful effects. You could set up at an angle so that the dish's soundwaves weren't focused directly at you, and hit it with a round or two. Something that size shouldn't be a hard target to hit even at longer ranges.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
107. Kate Bush
Experiment IV --

"They told us all they wanted was a sound that could kill someone at a distance, so we go ahead, and the needle's over in the red. It's a mistake, in the making."
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