ACORN to retrain workers, sue filmmakers

Source: San Bernardino Sun


ACORN took action Wednesday to repair its image after two undercover bloggers posing as a pimp and prostitute videotaped some of the organization's representatives apparently assisting the pair in sex trafficking schemes in San Bernardino and three East Coast cities. "As a result of the indefensible action of a handful of our employees, I am, in consultation with ACORN's Executive Committee, immediately ordering a halt to any new intakes into ACORN's service programs until completion of an independent review," said ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis, in a statement. As it looks internally, ACORN is also planning to sue the bloggers for illegally recording ACORN employees without their knowledge, California ACORN officials said.

=snip=

In San Bernardino, ACORN worker Tresa Kaelke is shown offering vague tips to the bloggers, who claim to need help starting a brothel involving child prostitutes. They said they intended to use brothel proceeds to fund a political campaign. Kaelke said she knew the two "were clearly playing with me" and she "decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me." Nevertheless, Kaelke has been placed on paid suspension while her actions are being reviewed by state and national ACORN officials, said Amy Schur, ACORN's California executive director.

=snip=

"We will take the necessary steps to ensure that ACORN functions with the highest levels of ethical standards and competence," said Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, a member of the advisory council, in a statement. Schur said ACORN is already in the process of revamping its training procedures. "I think we need to retrain all our staff on proper policies and procedures and doing their work professionally," Schur said.

=snip=

She said community organizers, like Kaelke, go through about two months of training. Kaelke, Schur said, had worked for ACORN for about two years.

Already, Schur said, ACORN is speaking to its 50 California employees about how to deal with suspicious characters. "We just had a staff call today with all of my supervisors around the state and I instructed them that the minute we are suspicious ... or someone is talking about illegal acts, we should both ask them to leave and notify the authorities," Schur said. "We don't support crime. We work to reduce crime in our communities."

Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_13352704

do you have some inside info?

He also is going to have some FCC problems. News organizations cannot record people without their permission or implied permission. As I said in another post. What allowed the Food Lion recording is the sign on the front door saying, "you are being recorded." The is a notification and permission to be recorded.

...that will fly.

News organizations do secret recordings all the time. I doubt--for good or for ill--the courts are eager to step on that.

Besides, I'd rather see progressives infiltrating RW rallies. Stick a camera under those bedsheets and see who's there.

recording. If they walked in and said, were recording this. No problem. Businesses place a lil sticker on the front door as Notification. I might even accept the person concealing the camera wearing a pin in plain view saying, You are being recorded. But there is no notification.

...and you are correct but we have all seen "investigative reports" of business officers and whatnot being caught on tape by a reporter going into the business and surreptitiously recording the untoward dealings going on.

The entire premise of "To Catch a Predator" is to capture people on video at the moment of committing a crime. Yet these videos are admissable even though they are obtained without a warrant. The reporter and their actor are participants in the conversations being recorded and as such are exempt at least by my reading of 2511.2.d (I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on the internet).

Like or not I think the precedent is there for O'Keefe to get away with defaming people and no judge wants to run afoul of the "sacred" 1st amendment.

Believe me, I'm not fighting you on the need to protect the greater whole of ACORN from scurrilous charges generated by despicable people who used outright deception just to pick a fight but perhaps our energies are better spent in other directions.

I can assure you they were recording too and have their own tapes of that. As for To Catch a Predator. Those investigations were sanctioned and partnered with Law Enforcement. That is a whole different creature, The police may have gotten the warrants needed for the hidden cameras. These two were not sanctioned or partnered with law enforcement. Nor did they even try to go to law enforcement after they obtained their, ahem, evidence.

Keep 'em coming! I'll swat flies all day. Good try though!

:yourock:

from the people they filmed, they broke the law.

Try wiretapping consent law or invasion privacy wiretapping law.

As for TV, you don't know what went on before or after or during taping that was not part of a broadcast that we see. Without knowing the full story, what the network's or show's lawyers advised, etc., you can't leap to conclusions.

I was being sexually harassed by the head of the Civil Rights Department and was told by my attorney that it would be a difficult case because of his position and my having no witnesses. I asked if I could record the conversations and he said no, that then he could have me charged me with a crime.



Edit for typo

People have been doing stings since the internet started. Before that this stuff used to get broadcast on MSM.

Undercover journalism has changed the political landscape many, many times.

he worker offered to help them smuggle kids across the border with his "connections".......this is a black eye Acorn didnt need!!

...to keep track of suspcious characters, and determine which employees actually did something wrong and which just look bad in video out-of-context.

If phone calls can be recorded, how about interviews? If the interviewee hasn't got anything to hide, then surely they wouldn't mind being taped?

in most cases. The robo-operator tells you this when you call in. You have the right to tell the person on the other end you do not want the call recorded, but they have to tell you.

NT

What allows investigative journalists to go into a Food Lion and record is the sign on the front door that says you are being recorded. That is notification and anyone may record.

...to deal with suspicious characters, whether real or a conservative scammer.

fighting back and we have their backs. My next political type contribution is going to ACORN. When the Right hates and scapegoats a group as much as they hate ACORN that is defacto evidence that ACORN is doing something right and need support

I have supported acorn heavily (for me). When they asked for an increase I said not until you fight back. They have ample grounds to win some hefty lawsuits against Michelle Bachmann and Faux Noise. Americans don't respect doormats. Having said that I would like to ask DU'ers to give them support.

knowing the fix is in. But the pimp said "bring it on" so obviously it's good news to him that he's being sued.

Why did the senate stop the funding? Thats what makes this look really bad. One minute they support acorn and then at the smallest sign of trouble they bail out!

100.00 per day or 10,000.00 which ever is HIGHER.

should have bee called.

It doesn't matter if ACORN wins a huge lawsuit. Innocence and guilt arn't the issue. This is political war. In the right's POV, damaging ACORN is worth the colateral damage. ACORN can win a lawsuit, the people who did it can go to jail, and the right will still believe in the heoric team that found out ACORN's dirty secrets.

If they had called the police, like they did in Philly and other areas, is the intent to engage in child Prostitution serious enough for the police to also report this to the El Salvadorian Embassy so they may take steps to protect their children from this conspiracy?

Is reporting to proper authorities a burden only upon Acorn?

If what I've read is true, ACORN will win every lawsuit. But the right has hamstrung a progressive group. They have shown to the satisfaction of their base that ACORN fixed the election and that they and everyone they support are into Child prostitution.

Imagine, if you are a Democrats/liberal and they announce that "ACORN, a known group that facilitates child prostitution, is registering voters for Democrat what's his name." It doesn't matter if that is untrue.

Probably, the best thing ACORN can do is to dissolve itself. Begin new progressive non-profits that do the job and set strict rules to cover this stuff.

And, expect to see this tried again and again.

Because Facts don't matter.


Read "The Political MInd" by George Lakoff to understand why facts don't matter.

...for making up some fantasy sex life and getting himself overheard. "Gotcha" journalism is alive and well. The GOP didn't give the internet a second thought before 2008. Now, it's their newest (and most effective) tool.

You're right, there will be LOTS more.

That way as they probe the wall for weaknesses. These attempts can be tracked, alerts issued and Law Enforcement brought in. That way when they go into an office they can be intercepted or directed to an office where they can be intercepted. Tell them I can't help you. But my girlfriend in this office can. Only talk to her. Of course Girlfriend is an LEO waiting to sting the stingers or other bad guys.

They have 700 employees and when you think about it, they deal with boatloads of horrible racism up to and including threats every day. This is just ONE of the forms of harassment they have to deal with WHILE they are trying to do their work.

This occured in part due to security lapses.

They have to say they are filing a lawsuit to protect their image. If ACORN files suit, the bible-beating redneck lawyers will be granted a ton of leeway in the discovery process. They would be allowed to investigate not only the bad apples on the tapes, but whatever malfeasances they can convice the judge to allow. It would be a de facto "independant investigation," only carried out by admitted right wing whackos that would love nothing more than to further harm ACORN. No way ACORN opens itself up to that. Hell, they'd probably have Glen Beck and O'Reilly managing the litigation and reporting about it on a daily basis.

In a criminal case the prosecution must turn over to the defense any evidence that will be used in the trial. They have up to the time the trial begins to do that. But once the trial begins. Anything they have not submitted to the defense cannot be introduced as evidence. It is barred from use as being outside of discovery. You no longer get to go routing through files.

as ACORN cannot initiate a criminal action. Only the DA can file charges. ACORN can request that the DA do so but has no input other than that. Civil discovery is still very, very broad in Maryland.

Granted it goes to the DA from there. But Acorn can absolutely initiate a criminal charges. I can also arrest you. Citizens arrests are legal. Not advisable. But legal. Democracy is a participatory form of government.

But I don't think so. They are the Maryland Rules of Discovery. Not the criminal rules of discovery and the civil rules of discovery.

well defined rules for civil discovery. Each party is entitled to demand any documents, depose any witness and inspect any property so long as the request "is reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence." It is a very broad standard. In criminal practice, the whole discovery process is an afterthought. The DA must turn over her evidence and any exculpatory evidence. the criminal system does not incorporate the complex rules of civil practice because it does not need to. Criminal and civil discovery rules are completely different animals.

Maryland civil discovery rules can are rules 26-37 of the Maryland Rules of Civil Procedure. You can read them here:

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/rules/civil/index.html

You can find Maryland here:

http://michie.lexisnexis.com/maryland/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=

Scope is the same: "information sought appears reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence." Rule 2-402.

:rofl:

Thanks! I'll go over it.

:yourock:

"A party may obtain discovery regarding any matter that is not privileged"

Acorn possesses the information of others that is private and protected. They also have the right to protect Trade Secrets. So the idea of FOX lawyers going through Acorn like Hogs routing through a field for truffles is fallacy.

"Privilege" is a legal term that refers to a narrow class of information and communication that cannot be divulged through civil litigation. Most privileged items are attorney-client privilege and attorney work-product privilege. There is no privilege for communictions between non-lawyers that one or both parties consider private. If "private and confidential" communications were privileged, the civil justice system would implode. The purpose of civil llitigation, in part, is to investigate the conduct of alleged wrongdoers, including communications (often secret, backroom talks), to determine liability.

I don't think so. That is a trade secret and therefore privileged. Now we're into Abuse of Process. I would require a warrant to access any trade secret even in discovery. Haul me before the Judge. I'll have legal take you to the bar.

Basically what you are afraid of in discovery is called Abuse Of Process.

:hi:

At least that's what I've always heard.

:rofl:

Silly stuff like that. :hi:

ACORN is not authorized to operate in Maryland; they gave up their charter three years ago.

They cannot and will not sue, they will get absolutely destroyed. This is nothing more than PR.

There would be no prosecutor. There would be plaintiffs and defendants.

Did MD recently change the discovery rules for civil suits?

among low post count posters...

swipe at me. I'm a litigator. Lawsuits are my area of expertise and I post rarely and almost exclusively on legal matters. It will take me 100 years to get a "reputable" number of posts. Oh well . . .

ACORN is not going to start a fight that allows its opponents to interview their employees under oath and go through their books and put the results on tv. Not going to happen.

it's not like they were giving assistance to real pimps and hos.

Rathke brothers and the settlement they made back when Dale was dismissed.

That's just one thing I bet they'd rather not have lawyers go through.

would be permitting unreasonable "right wing whackos" to do further harm to ACORN.

I also fear that would be true --

if, as ACORN maintained, these videos were doctored then ACORN was remiss when it wrongfully fired its employees. That's tantamount to an admission of guilt that only played into the RW's hands; not to mention it must have been humiliating for the employees already being dragged through the mud in full view of the public.

I'm glad to see they have finally decided to grow a spine and push back.

At once.

In-serving training to make sure it doesn't happen again--presumably "it" is what was claimed by the videographers. Reviewing procedures. Firing the employees.

Then claiming the videotape was edited to say things that never were said. Claiming that it violates the law, that they're filing suit.

In nearly any other enterprise I'd expect to see at least mention of the fiscal improprieties at the very top of ACORN that were resolved, unresolved, and re-resolved a year or so ago. In what I've read about this story, however, that scandal--not big news at the time--is relegated to having been non-news.



At the same time as ACORN is saying that the videos were edited, however, the ACORN people involved as much admit that what the tape said was mostly true by saying they were misinterpreted--they weren't serious in what they said, they were playing the videographers for fools. On the other hand, their playing the videographers for fools in what they said isn't really what happened, however, because they didn't actually say what they said they said.

If the video is illegal It's content cannot be use by anyone at any time for any reason. Now here in Maryland we are an at will employment state. You can be fired at anytime without a show of cause. Ironically enough. Though We The People of Maryland do not have a right to employment. Our State employees have a right to a raise called a Cost Of Living Adjustment (COLA.) So basically if our state government screws up the state economy causing inflation. They get raises to protect them from becoming the victims of their own incompetence. Never mind that if you don't work for the state government you might not be able to afford the Vaseline. OUCH!

I'm not being snippity, I am interested in seeing the actual statutes. I am unaware of any statutory authority, federal or state, that would make it actionable to covertly videotape a conference with people doling out tax and housing advice. Plus, even if such conduct was actionable and/or illegal, I am not aware of any doctrine that would forbid third parties was using or disseminating the materials in this situation.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 119--WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND
INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS


Sec. 2515. Prohibition of use as evidence of intercepted wire or
oral communications

Whenever any wire or oral communication has been intercepted, no
part of the contents of such communication and no evidence derived
therefrom may be received in evidence in any trial, hearing, or other
proceeding in or before any court, grand jury, department, officer,
agency, regulatory body, legislative committee, or other authority of
the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof if the
disclosure of that information would be in violation of this chapter.

"wire or oral communication," i.e. wiretapping. A communication is intercepted if it was intended to flow from A to B and third party C records it without the knowledge or consent of A and B. Here, B (the pimp and prostitute) recorded a conversation they were having with A, i.e., no interception.

that is an oral communication.

...I think Sec 2511.2.d is their out:

(d) It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State.

Again, news organization do UC reporting all the time. No court is going to put the kybosh on 60 Minutes doing what they do best.

O'Keefe and Giles were acting as predators (hunting, engaging and taking down) and Acorn was their prey. That deprives them of the defense.

You have not identified a crime they committed nor a civil cause of action. How have you skipped ahead to doctrines that defeat their defenses? And do you have a cite for whatever legal doctrine you tried to state. I've never heard of it. I would like to see if you are refering to something that has basis in law or not.

They did surreptitiously film Practices and delivered them to a foreign instrumentality. FOX News Owned by Australian Citizen Rupert Murdoch.

If you say they were filming practices you're saying this is the day-to-day operation of ACORN...which it most certainly is not!!!

And while Murdoch may be Australian (I weep for the koala bears) his company is American.

System of order. If you remove O'Keefe and Giles from the equation. You have no problem what so ever. It's just another Standard Operational day at Acorn. The introduction of Dysfunction to their system of order is technically an act of corporate sabotage. But the law does not recognize this concept. So this prompts me to ask this question. Does Rupert Murdoch have any fiduciary interest in any bank or other loan organization that could be in competition with Acorn on housing loans? Because the acts of corporate espionage. Acorn is closed for new business. They are no longer source. Their customers will have to go else where.

Basically these two "Bushed" Acorn. That is exactly what Bush did to the CIA and DOJ. His introduced and induced dysfunction to their normal operational procedure. This in turn eroding or destroying public confidence. Before Bush People believed the CIA to be engaged in mind control, time travel, negotiations with space aliens. Once Bush introduced and induced dysfunction to their systems of order. Suddenly people don't believe the CIA to be capable of spelling CIA. Sound familiar? At that point the CIA stood in the way of defense contractor profits. Plame was exposed by the press. Hot damn! Break out the rakes here comes the money. Now Acorn is quasi government agency competing with private interests. Think health care and the public option. As usual with the GOP the deviousness of seemingly harmless act by O'Keefe and Giles knows no depths. I see repeating patterns of espionage here.

involves theft of trade secrets or proprietary information. Here, there are no trade secrets or proprietary information. Plus, even if there were, there could be no theft. ACORN voluntarily disclosed information to the RWers. The fact that that disclosure was recorded does not weign in on the analysis.

This section is moot as under federal law there is only the requirement that one party to the conversation has to give consent. I'm pretty sure the actors gave themselves permission.

in Baltimore and D.C.?

Because the poster in question is working hard to prove the adage regarding a "little knowledge..."

ACORN is in no way a federal agency.

That's what I think --

I was thinking the ACORN workers were just humoring the 'pimp' knowing full well the application would never be approved.

or the workers knew they wouldn't submit the application for approval anyway; that the application would go in the round file.

??

filmakers. This was nothing more than a political stunt and it purpose was to do harm to this organization.

After all of the revelations of

1. One ACORN office after another was shown to be willing, ready, and able to assist a self-described pimp in the sexual slavery of women - with more tapes to come!

2. ACORN statements themselves have proved to be prima facia lies - such as the ACORN statement in response to the Baltimore tape This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we’ve all recently seen. that was removed from their website once the New York tape was released. The San Diego tape was yet to be released!

3. Public statements from former ACORN board members that ACORN had become a corrupt and criminal enterprise, highjacked by people who use concern for the poor as a cover for their own criminal behavior.

After all that there are so many who out of some Pavlovian conditioning still defend ACORN.

SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

You have abandoned all pretense of intellectual honesty and a serious commitment to the progressive ideals of rule of law and opposition to the exploitation of women and children. Instead you have become the kind of people that all true progressives struggle against - the (at best) unwitting apologists for evil.

And how ironic that you should do so on this day of all days - September 17, 2009

70 years to the day when the Soviet Union invaded Poland in collusion with Hitler.

Then as now many in the Left jumped to the defense of the "cause" and gave cover to the Soviet atrocity. Then as now a handful of intellectually honest people on the Left spoke truth unvarnished by ideology and recognized evil actions for what they were.

Some things never seem to change.

lol

The last thing in the world the GOP wants is Acorn going to court to untie that Gordian Knot.


Btw. Alexander cheated. He cut the knot. He did not "untie" it. A Gordian Knot is tied under water and therefore must be untied under water. It is possible to do if you know how.

:dunce:

In San Bernardino, ACORN worker Tresa Kaelke is shown offering vague tips to the bloggers, who claim to need help starting a brothel involving child prostitutes. They said they intended to use brothel proceeds to fund a political campaign. Kaelke said she knew the two "were clearly playing with me" and she "decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me." Nevertheless, Kaelke has been placed on paid suspension while her actions are being reviewed by state and national ACORN officials, said Amy Schur, ACORN's California executive director.

I can see an employee thinking like this -- wouldn't be wise, but I get it.

Wouldn't be wise, especially if you are doing work related in any way to government --

HOWEVER, what would have propelled this presentation re "a brothel involving child prostitutes"

to an ACORN employee when the expectation would be that they would have thrown them out rather

to actually giving them something worthy of filming -- "tips" on how to run a brothel involving

child prostitutes!!!

Not likely they could have counted on that unless this employee was working with them.



The attacks on ACORN are very centered in attacking the poor -- and especially as they are

creating more poor every day -- it's an especial effort to keep them from getting registered

and actually voting!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGjZJec_CqQ

Sorry, but they really need to clean up their act.

If they want to help the poor, which is a good thing, they need to stay away from doing any side business.

Expect it to be the center point of their campaigns next year. We are going to hear so much bad about ACORN that we will vomit every time we see an Oak tree.

GOP fascist rallies to stop health care and the whole bundle of filth they're

up to --

Of course, I can't be positive, but looks like they've planted people inside ACORN.

First logical move anyone would make would be to throw these guys out --

Anything else is hard to believe --

women, African-American, homosexuals, Jews -- ???

And they were doing it in RNC HQs . . . ???

It was amazing -- and they forced their female, AA, homosexual, Jewish employees

to take part!!!

Someone got the films out and they played for a day or two on TV -- but in my opinion

it should have been enough to close down the RNC and end the GOP's existence --!!!

Those films are, of course, still around somewhere --

This was probably more than 10 years ago --

Not unlike the other video where they were counting on not getting thrown out

when they began a discussion about brothels/prostitutes -- and they just got

lucky enough to find an employee who number one didn't kick them out immediately --

but proceeded to give them "tips" . . . !!!


:eyes:

sue the fuck out of that rat weasel republican scumbag.