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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:27 AM
Original message
Human rights group says Cuba is holding masses of political prisoners
Source: WP

Scores of Cubans have been detained as political prisoners since Raul Castro assumed power three years ago, a human-rights organization reported Wednesday, suggesting that there has been little change in the repressive system that existed under his brother Fidel.


....
....

The report says Raul Castro's government continues to imprison scores of dissidents arrested under Fidel Castro, including 53 human-rights defenders, journalists and others detained in a major crackdown in 2003.

Additional dissidents have been jailed in the past three years, including at least 40 accused by Raul Castro's government of "dangerousness," the report said. They included Ramon Velasquez Toranzo, who was arrested in 2007 during a cross-country march with his wife and daughter to promote human rights, the report said.

The charge of being "dangerous" has been lodged against not only government critics but also people who failed to attend pro-government rallies or were unemployed, the report said.



Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/18/AR2009111801523.html?hpid=topnews



mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Reminds me a bit of "Changeling." nt
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 12:04 PM by WriteDown
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. So are we. Only we call them "crimnals" ore "felons." nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just in time for the travel embargo debate. Vivanco strikes again.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Its too bad we can't trust organizations such as HRW and AI
when it comes to Cuba. Everywhere else yes, Cuba no.
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Amazing isn't it... valuable sources unless it concerns Cuba or Venezuela
:rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's not amazing to people who are actually paying attention:
VENEZUELA: Human Rights Watch Report Under Fire
By Humberto Márquez

CARACAS, Dec 22 (IPS) - A Human Rights Watch report on alleged setbacks in human rights in Venezuela since President Hugo Chávez first took office 10 years ago has been severely questioned by 118 academics from the United States and several other countries.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45200

:)
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Well complaints with the academics' assessments
While I agree with some of their complaints regarding the HRW report - particularly, the "sweeping allegations" made within the report - I can't help but think that some of their complaints are a little off-base.

For starters, they argue that "the report does not show, or even attempt to show, that political discrimination either increased under the current government (as compared to past governments)" but when one reads the report, they'll quickly note that the report isn't stating that political discrimination has gone up in Venezuela. Instead, it argues that it's changed form, and examples of what they feel that change to be ARE in fact cited in the report.

Secondly, the critics of the report complain that the report doesn't show that "political discrimination...is more of a problem in Venezuela than in any other country in the world". And they're right, it doesn't, because that's not what HRW reports traditionally attempt to prove.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The author of that report began his career as a apologist for Pinochet.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 08:33 PM by EFerrari
And since he's headed the Latin America desk for HRW, he was repeatedly injected himself into the internal affairs of left learning governments.

All you really need is a search engine to find his name popping up in the press at sensitive times such as this one, where this last report about Cuba will be used against the repeal of the travel ban.

Jose Vivanco is a manipulative snake.

I Can't Believe It's Not Human Rights Watch!
September 25th 2008, by Elizabeth Ferrari - OpEdNews

As Americans, we operate from a position of privileged naivete, a kind of concrete operational thinking: we believe things are what they are called especially when it comes to public life. If someone reads us a bill called "No Child Left Behind", we go ahead and assume it will help children. If an act named the "Help America Vote Act" passes, we expect that our elections just got better. The Heritage Foundation is surely an organization that has something to do with colonial hardiness and a can-do spirit. There is nothing more sad than we are when we learn, against all reason, that NCLB is a hijacking of our schools by privateers or that HAVA makes our elections vastly more vulnerable or that The Heritage Foundation is a right wing propaganda mill that is every day finding better ways to funnel our tax money into corporate wallets with a nakedness that Lady Godiva could only aspire to.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3830

/typo
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks for the link
Interesting read and I do think it's important to know who is writing these types of reports. However (you knew there was going to be a "however", didn't you?) as I finished the article you cited, I found myself wondering if the fact that he was kicked out of Venezuela for being critical of Chavez (as he was, according to your source) actually affirms some of his complaints about Chavez's government (i.e. political discrimination)?

Also, to me, I'm less interested in the timing of his reports than their content. Is there evidence the reports he helps work on are full of falsehoods? Is there evidence of blatent falsehoods in this new report on Cuba? Because that's the stuff that concerns me.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. The timing of his reports is everything.
It's going to give the numbnut Republicans something to wave at the debate -- just as it's intended to do.

Put another way, those reports would gain in credibility were they not timed to sensitive political moments. What is a so called human rights worker doing involving himself in political brawls?
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see your point.
and I agree that, to some extent, it undermines HRW's credibility if indeed the release of these reports is being timed around political events within the United States. However, with that said, if these reports are accurate, perhaps they should be included in the debate?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You'd have to find someone without the conflict of interest he's dragged in
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 09:11 PM by EFerrari
to duplicate his results.

Vivanco is only a recent example in a long tradition of meddling in Latin America by NGO.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Is there an NGO whose ties you feel are less sketchy and whose results are more acccurate?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The ICRC does a fine job as well as AI.
They're never going to please everybody but at least they don't hire people like Vivanco and then try to cover for them. Or at least, not as far as I know.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Fair enough
I think AI tends to take a broader view of what is taking place in the countries they're studying and are more willing to applaude the good while condemnining the evil.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. How many of them are named Steve?
118 academics question something? That's it?

*sigh*

Check out Project Steve.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I found a Steve, a Steven and a Stephen.
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 12:27 AM by ronnie624
<https://nacla.org/node/5334>

1. Rodolfo Acuña, Professor, Chicano/a Studies, California State University , Northridge

2. Federico Álvarez, Professor Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

3. Tim Anderson, Senior Lecturer in Political Economy, University of Sydney , Australia

4. Miguel Angel Herrera, Historia, Universidad de Costa Rica

5. Robert Austin, Ph.D, Honorary Fellow, School of Historical Studies, University of Melbourne

6. Márgara Averbach, Professor of Literatura, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Argentina

7. William Aviles, Associate Professor, Political Science University of Nebraska , Kearney

8. Mario Ayala, Programa de Historia Oral, Facultad de Filosofía y Letras, Universidad de Buenos Aires

9. David Barkin, Profesor de Economía, Universidad Autonoma Metropolitana-Xochimilco

10. .Carlos Beas, Activista Movimiento Indígena, Oaxaca-MEXICO

11.. Alejandro Alvarez Béjar, Professor Economics Universidad Autónoma Nacional de México

12. Donald W, Bray, Professor Emeritus, California State University , Los Angeles

13. Marjorie Woodford Bray, Professor, Latin American Studies, California State University , Los Angeles

14. Charles Bergquist, Professor of History, University of Washington

15. Atilio A. Boron Director del PLED, Programa Latinoamericano de Educación a Distancia en Ciencias Sociales, Buenos Aires, Argentina

16. Chesa Boudin, Yale Law School

17. Clara Mantini Briggs, Associate Researcher, Demography, University of California , Berkeley

18. Charles Briggs, Professor Anthropology, University of California , Berkeley

19. Julia Buxton, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for International Cooperation and Security, Department of Peace Studies, Bradford University

20. Maria Emilia Caballero, Comitè ´68 Pro Libertades Democràticas en Mèxico

21. Marisol de la Cadena, Associate Professor of Anthropology, UC-Davis , CA

22. José Calderon, Professor Sociology and Chicano/a Studies, Pitzer College

23. Hernán Camarero, Professor, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Argentina

24. Cristina Castello, Poeta y Periodista, Buenos Aires, Argentina

25. Ana Esther Ceceña, Instituto de Investigaciones Económicas, UNAM
Observatorio Latinoamericano de Geopolítica

26. Eleonora Quijada Cervoni, School of Language Studies, The Australian National University

27. Julie A. Charlip, Professor, Department of History, Whitman College

28. Norma Stoltz Chinchilla, Professor of Sociology and Women's Studies, California State University Long Beach

29. Christopher Clement, Visiting Professor Politics, Pomona College

30. Ron Chilcote, Professor Economics, University of California Riverside

31. Noam Chomsky, Professor of Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

32. Antonia Darder, Professor Educational Policy and Latino Studies, University of Illinois , Urbana-Champaign

33. Michael Derham, University of Northumbria , School of Arts and Social Sciences

34. Mônica Dias Martins, Professor Political Science, State University of Ceara , Brazil

35. Héctor Díaz-Polanco, Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios Superiores en

Antropología (CIESAS)

36.Luis Duno, Associate Professor of Hispanic Studies, Rice University , Houston , TX

37. Steve Ellner, Professor Political Science, University of Oriente , Venezuela

38. Arturo Escobar, Kenan Distinguished Professor of Anthropology, UNC-Chapel Hill , NC

39. Raul Fernandez, Professor, School of Social Science , University of California Irvine

40. Sujatha Fernandes, Queens College , City University of New York

41. Bill Fletcher, Jr., Executive Editor, BlackCommentator.com

42. Gabrielle Foreman, Visiting Distinguished Professor of Africana Studies, Bowdoin College

43. Cindy Forster, Associate Professor History, Scripps College

44. Félix Hernàndez Gamundi, Comitè ´68 Pro Libertades Democràticas en Mèxico

45. Raúl Alvarez Garìn, Comitè ´68 Pro Libertades Democràticas en Mèxico

46. José Francisco Gallardo Rodríguez, General Brigadier y Doctor en Administración Pública

47. Marco A. Gandásegui, (h) Professor, University of Panama

48. Lesley Gill, Professor and Chair of Anthropology, Vanderbilt University , Nashville , TN

49. Magdalena Gómez, Columnist, La Jornada

50. Gilbert Gonzalez, Professor School of Social Science, University of California , Irvine

51. Armando Gonzalez-Caban, Latin American Perspective

52. Jeffrey Gould, Professor of History, Indiana University .

53. Greg Grandin , Professor of History, Director of Graduate Studies, New York University

54. Angel Guerra, Journalist, La Jornada

55. Maria Guerra, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

56. Peter Hallward, Professor of Modern European Philosophy, Middlesex University , UK

57. Daniel Hellinger, Professor Political Science, Webster University

58. Ramona Hernandez, Director, CUNY Dominican Studies Institute & Professor of Sociology, The City College of New York

59. Derrick Hindery, Assistant Professor of International Studies and Geography, University of Oregon

60. Forrest Hylton, Ph.D. Candidate, History, NYU

61. Robin D. G. Kelley, Professor of History and American Studies

62. Misha Kokotovic, Associate Professor Department of Literature, UC San Diego

63. Maria Lagos, Associate Professor Emerita, Dept. of Anthropology, Lehman College , CUNY.

64. Sidney Lemelle, Professor of History, Pomona College

65. Deborah Levenson, Professor of History, Boston College

66. Nayar López Castellanos, Universidad Autónoma de la Ciudad de Mexico

67. Gilberto López y Rivas, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia, Centro Regional Morelos

68. Florencia E. Mallon, Julieta Kirkwood Professor of History, University of Wisconsin-Madison , WI

69. Luis Martin-Cabrera, Assistant Professor, UCSD

70. Jorge Mariscal, Professor, Literature, University of California , San Diego

71. Peter McLaren, Professor, Graduate School of Education and Information Studies, University of California , Los Angeles

72. Frida Modak, Chilean Journalist

73. Daniel Molina, Comitè ´68 Pro Libertades Democràticas en Mèxico

74. José Mollet, Profesor Asistente y escritor, Director del Centro de Investigaciones Socioculturales, Instituto de Cultura del Estado Falcón, Venezuela

75. Carlos Montemayor, Writer

76. Maricarmen Montes, Nuestra América

77. Josefina Morales, Investigadora UNAM, México

78. Luis Hernández Navarro, Journalist

79. Fabio Gabriel Nigra, Assistant Professor of History, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Argentina

80. Enrique Ochoa, Professor, Latin American Studies, California State University , Los Angeles

81. Elizabeth Oglesby, Department of Geography, University of Arizona

82. Jocelyn Olcott, Department of History, Duke University Press

83. Mercedes Olivera, Centro de Estudios Superiores de México y Centroamérica, Universidad de Ciencias y Artes de Chiapas.

84. Mark Overmyer -Velazquez, Associate Professor of History, University of Connecticut

85. José Herrera Peña Centro de Investigaciones Jurídicas, Facultad de Derecho y Ciencias Sociales, Universidad Michoacana de San Nicolás de Hidalgo.

86. Rebeca Peralta, Nuestra América

87. Salvador E. Morales Pérez, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Michoacana de San Nicolás de Hidalgo

88. Hector Perla, Assistant Professor Latin American and Latino Studies, University of California , Santa Cruz

89. John Pilger, journalist and documentary film maker

90. Deborah Poole, Professor, Anthropology, Johns Hopkins

91. Carlos Walter Porto Gonçalves Professor do Programa de Pós-graduação em Geografia da

Universidade Federal Fluminense

92. Pablo A. Pozzi, Professor of History, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Argentina

93. Vijay Prashad, Professor, International Studies, Trinity College

94. Gerardo Renique, City College , City University of New York

95. William Robinson, Professor Sociology, University of California , Santa Barbara

96. Victor Rodriguez, Professor, Chicano Latino Studies, California State University , Long Beach

97. René Patricio Cardoso Ruiz, Director en Estudios Latinoamericanos, Investigador Nacional I del SIN, Facultad de Humanidades, Universidad Autónoma del Estado de México

98. Jan Rus, Latin American Perspectives

99. Emir Sader, Secretario Ejecutivo de CLACSO, Sociólogo, Argentina

100. Miguel Tinker Salas, Professor of History, Pomona College

101. Rosaura Sanchez, Professor, Literature, University of California , San Diego

102. John Saxe-Fernández, Essayist, México

103. Alejandro M. Schneider, Assistant Professor of History, Universidad Nacional de La Plata, Argentina

104.Enrique Semo, Professor of Economics, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

105.T.M. Scruggs, Associate Professor, Ethnomusicology, University of Iowa

106. Jose Steinsleger, Mexican Writer and Journalist

107. Beatriz Stolowicz, Universidad Autónoma Xochimilco

108.Oliver Stone, Filmmaker

109. Sinclair Thomson, Professor History, New York University

110.Steven Topik, Professor, History, University of California , Irvine

111. Jorge Turner, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

112. Carolina Verduzco, Comitè ´68 Pro Libertades Democràticas en Mèxico

113. William H. Watkins, Professor, College of Education , Univ. of Illinois , Chicago

114. Mark Weisbrot, Co-Director, Center for Economic and Policy Research

115. Dr Stephen Wilkinson Assistant Director International Institute for the Study of Cuba London Metropolitan University

116. Gregory Wilpert, Ph.D, Adjunct Professor of Political Science, Brooklyn College

117. John Womack, Professor, History, Harvard

118. Nahirana Zambrano, Professor of American Studies, University of the Andes, Venezuela
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. You might have missed the point.
A tiny list makes a statement, but because they can get people to sign it, it's supposed to be important?
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. I didn't miss your point:
"118 academics question something? That's it?"

Your implication is that the claims made in the article to which you replied are vague and unverifiable. A few seconds worth of searching turned up the letter referenced in the article and the name of every academic attached to it.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I'm not sure that was the pointer's point
but I'll let them speak for themselves.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. No, it wasn't about being "vague and verifiable".
The point of Project Steve was to mock argument from authority, by creating a counter-argument with a patently ridiculous criteria for that authority.

I'm also not sure what Oliver Stone's academic credentials are, but... whatever. His wikipedia page indicates he dropped out of Yale, twice, and eventually graduated from film school at NYU.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. This line from the letter says it all:
Edited on Thu Nov-19-09 01:03 AM by ronnie624
"We do not expect a report of this nature to adhere to rigorous academic standards, but there have to be some standards."


The report's overwhelming reliance for factual material on opposition sources of dubious reliability also undermines its credibility and makes it difficult for most readers to know which parts of the report are true and which aren't. The most cited source with regard to political discrimination is the newspaper El Universal.<5> This is not only a stridently opposition newspaper, it has also, for the years during which it is cited, repeatedly fabricated news stories. For example, in a typical fabrication of the type deployed to libel government officials, El Universal reported that then Interior Minister Jesse Chacón had purchased a painting for $140,000.<6> This turned out to be completely false. There are many examples of fabrications in El Universal, as well as other opposition sources cited by the report.<7>

We find it troubling that a report on Human Rights depends heavily on unreliable sources. Would a report on human rights in the United States be taken seriously if it relied so heavily on Fox News, or even worse The National Enquirer? Indeed, this report ventures even further into the zone of unreliable sources and cites a mentally unstable opposition blogger as a source. (p. 20, footnote 30). This is a person who indulges not only in routine fabrications and advocates the violent overthrow of the government, but also has publicly fantasized about killing his political enemies and dumping the bodies from helicopters into the slums, and torturing others by "pour melted silver into their eyes."<8>

A disturbing thing about the report's reliance on these sources is that it indicates a lack of familiarity with the subject matter, or perhaps worse, a deep political prejudice that allows the authors to see most of these sources as unproblematic. Indeed, there is only one passing indication that the newspapers El Universal and El Nacional, are opposition newspapers, and it is a reference to the past<9>, which the reader might therefore reasonably judge to be irrelevant. On the other hand, the report refers to the newspaper Últimas Noticias as "largely sympathetic to Chávez and his government" and "a generally pro-government tabloid." (p.70, p.89) This is a newspaper that prints articles that are harshly critical of the government on a daily basis, and according to polling data in Venezuela is seen as vastly more independent than any other major newspapers. The authors' view of the Venezuelan media seems to mirror the view of the right-wing Venezuelan opposition, or the U.S. Right's view of the "liberal media" in the United States.

Such profound prejudice, in which events are interpreted overwhelmingly through the lens of Venezuela's right-wing opposition, is apparent throughout the document: for example when the authors describe groups that helped organize and supported the April 2002 coup as "new organizations dedicated to the defense of democracy and the rule of law." (p. 203)

<https://nacla.org/node/5334>
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Important statement. Will be saving this one for future reference. Thank you, Ronnie624.
Many distinguished names in this group.

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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. How did HR obtain the list of persons they have to interview in Cuba?
From the Cuba report

As a result, Human Rights Watch decided to conduct a fact-finding mission to Cuba without
official permission in June and July 2009. During this trip, Human Rights Watch researchers
conducted extensive interviews in seven of the island’s fourteen provinces. We also
conducted numerous interviews via telephone from New York City. In total, we carried out
more than 60 in-depth interviews with human rights defenders, journalists, former political
prisoners, family members of current political prisoners, members of the clergy, trade
unionists, and other Cuban citizens.


surely it wasn't a random selection.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. I don't know.
It's been a while since I've given any credence to Jose Miguel Vivanco. He isn't very discreet about promoting the socioeconomic system in Latin America that U.S. political and corporate elites prefer. I read a speech by him a few years ago in which he left no doubt about his support of U.S. policies of intervention in the region. HRW doesn't have a good track record as a source for information on Latin America. I have bookmarked the report on Cuba however, and I will read it over the next several days.
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YouTakeTheSkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but...
I should preface this by saying that I agree with some of the criticisms raised here, particularly about the reliance on a mentally unstable individual and heavy reliance on the opposition press. However, even with this in mind, I can't help but acknowledge the fact that their findings are not that horrifically out of line with the findings of Amnesty International or any human rights organization that has kept an eye on activities within Cuba (at least any that I'm aware of). So while I agree that there are flaws, I'm not sure we should disregard this report altogether.

And while we're at it, what's with the ICRC when it comes to Cuba? It seems they've published hardly anything in recent years.
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IDFbunny Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Why not?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. See post 8 for clarification. nt
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. They rely on US paid "independent journalists" for their "reports".
HRW and AI have none of their own people in Cuba to do any actual factual reporting. Instead they simply reprint Cubanet "reports" a la Faux news 2nd hand and 3rd hand "some people say" stylized & slanted fabrications.






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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. Anti-Castro money shifts to Democrats: report

Cuban-American opponents of the Cuban government have donated over $10 million to U.S. political campaigns since 2004, according to the report. It is unclear how much of an overall impact their largess is having on Democrats.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5AF0S220091116
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. So does the USA n/t
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h9socialist Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. How about Gitmo?
Have you noticed how so much indignation about human rights in Cuba comes from the same goobers who are afraid to put Khalid Sheikh Mohammad and other accused terrorists on trial in civil court, and believe we should leave Gitmo open forever? These same goobers must have a real eye for subtlety. As Walter Matthau said in "JFK" they're "pickin' gnat-shit outta pepper."
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Imagine if Iran or N Korea was paying "human-rights defenders, journalists and others" here.
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 02:58 PM by Mika
Or, a slightly better analogy was if Iran was paying operatives called "human-rights defenders, journalists and others" in Israel. Or the other way around.


This is just what the US government and private entities in the USA (mainly in Miami and with terrorist connections) are doing in Cuba. They certainly are not "human-rights defenders, journalists". "Others" (associates with terra groups in Miami, as their money trail through the US interests section in Havana has been proven), maybe.

Keep in mind that the official US gov position re: Cuba is that the US is the declared enemy state of Cuba, and the US goal is to end the system of government in Cuba, and replace it with a form of government that is acceptable to the US government. More hegemonic Platt Amendment BS.

These "human-rights defenders, journalists and others" are working for the declared enemy state of Cuba. How DUers can defend such foreign enemy state run intrusion is remarkable.










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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. HRW is hypocritcal as hell on top of that. Their stated position
is against the embargo but they don't do what they say when they release this POS just in time for it to be used by the right wing nuttery in Congress.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
34. For HR the end of the embargo means
to let US corporations stablish them selves in Cuba specially to extract oil from the Gulf of Mexico, its only a one way ticket
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. Only the guilty fear the truth
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. And how does that speak to releasing this in time for Republicans to wave it
at the debate?

The only liar here is HRW whose stated position is against the embargo.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. It's illegal for any foreign country to pay US citizens to do this here.
Really sad our government chooses to do in other countries what it doesn't allow here, not by a long shot.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. "Imagine"? Huh?
You don't think that pro-leftist, and pro-socialist, astro-turfers, exist here?

Wow.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. I'm really surprise that the Cuba bashing squad hasn't show up to support HR report
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. About the least surprising news of the day
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. But I hear the Cuban health care system is awesome!
So that makes this ok...Viva El Castro!
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-19-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. Just another Miami gusamo wet dream.
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