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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:29 PM
Original message
303 Diagnosed With Mumps In NYC Suburbs
Source: WCBS TV

More than 300 people have been diagnosed with the mumps in suburban New York as the nation's largest outbreak of the disease in years continues to spread.

A health official says a total of 303 people in the Rockland County towns of Monsey and New Square have been diagnosed with the highly infectious disease. Almost all the cases are among Orthodox or Hasidic Jews.

Investigators say the outbreak started in August 2009 at a Jewish summer camp in Sullivan County with an 11-year-old boy who brought the disease from England.

It has since spread to Jewish communities in Brooklyn, New Jersey and Orange county.


Read more: http://wcbstv.com/health/ny.mumps.outbreak.2.1476391.html



This is exactly why those who run around spewing the garbage of how bad the MMR vaccine is should be called aout and embarrassed in the public square. Also there should be zero exemptions to this for school children. If you dont want to vaccinate your kids then home school them.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. hope this is the only outbreak
nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Many of those affected were vaccinated against the mumps."
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. vaccines don't work on everybody, which is why you need most people to be vaccinated
to get the full benefit.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Some also wear off in early adulthood
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 01:25 PM by Oregone
Mumps being one of them. Right when college kids start living in dorms and kissing anything they can catch drunk

I contracted pertussis when I was 25 when a wave came through our county. My wife did not, however. It varries from individuals I guess.

Was it mumps that causes sterility when you catch it 18 to 30 or so? I thought I read that earlier, where it was implied that when children don't catch it young and the vaccine wears off, it could be more damaging. Totally forgot though.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Mumps can affect the testes, in the same way it affects
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 01:45 PM by MineralMan
the salivary glands. That's fairly rare, but it can happen, and can lead to sterility.

When I had the mumps, it affected my tear glands and nothing else. I had two big swollen eyelids. Looked funny as hell when I was 16. I couldn't see, and had to stay home. Didn't stop my girlfriend from making out with me, though (I think it was my girlfriend...). She had the mumps as a kid.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. My dad had the mumps
when he was in his late 20s. I remember my parents being very worried about sterility. I wasn't worried. They had enough kids and should have stopped with me. :)

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
95. Happened to my uncle.
People forget that it wasn't just fatalities from a lot of these diseases. Lifelong disability can result - deafness, blindness, mental retardation.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Most people are vaccinated. Disease has run rampant in highly vaccinated
populations as well. Seems convenient that no matter how often vaccines fail, those who have "faith" in them will always find one person who's not vaccinated to blame.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Polio is awesome. You can find it in sudan. Sounds like an anti vaxer haven.(nt)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. You'll have to ask an
anti-vaxer.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. dupe
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 03:31 PM by Pavulon
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
96. I think you have "faith" in them not working
or being to blame for lots of things.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #96
105. I think for the most part they're effective for a period
of time.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
97. It's not "faith" it's science
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 11:51 PM by Confusious

And nothing is ever guaranteed to work 100%. Who ever sold you that probably made a billion.

It's also a little funny how the vaccine "doubters" ( since you don't want to be called an anti-vaxxer ) never bring up smallpox.

Just kind of slipped your mind huh?

On edit: seems 60% weren't vacced. Kinda screws your theory huh?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #97
106. This claim has not been proven.
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 01:37 AM by mzmolly
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #106
121. Neither has yours
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:39 AM by Confusious
Post a more current link. Disease statistics from June 2009 - Oct 2009 don't apply thru Aug 2009 - Feb 2010
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #121
138. Official data is always lagging a bit behind. Regardless it's a SINGLE county
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 11:06 AM by mzmolly
NOT the entire outbreak in NY. FYI - one county reports a 97% vaccine compliance rate.
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
175. Amen! n/t
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It looks like a little more than half were vaccinated. nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Where'd you get that? n/t
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ugh, I can't find it now.
I'll keep looking, but somewhere it said 60%. I'll try to back it up, but that's what I remember.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Aha, found it. 60% *weren't* vaccinated.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #29
107. That's a misleading and incorrect statement.
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 01:35 AM by mzmolly
"Not been fully immunized" simply means one may not have had a recommended booster. Also the info reported in your link doesn't appear to mesh with the CDC report on the matter.

Your article states:

At least 60 percent of the people in Rockland who have gotten mumps during the current outbreak had not been fully immunized, Facelle said.

And the CDC also reports:

Rockland County, New York. Four of the patients who had attended the Sullivan County summer camp resided in Rockland County, New York. By October 30, an additional 27 cases (exclusive of returning campers) had been reported among members of the same religious community, with transmission occurring in a variety of settings, including a school for boys. The median age of patients was 12 years (range: 1--62 years), and 23 (85%) were male. Mumps vaccination status was reported for 19 (70%), of whom had received age-appropriate vaccination, two had received partial age-appropriate vaccination.

Additional reports of the spread of mumps in NY are interesting:

Sullivan County, New York. On August 18, 2009, the New York State Department of Health was notified of mumps cases in a summer camp serving approximately 400 boys from the tradition-observant religious community. The index patient was a boy aged 11 years who had returned on June 17 from the United Kingdom, ... The boy became symptomatic at camp on June 28. A total of 25 cases were reported among camp attendees and staff members. The median age of patients was 12 years (range: 9--30 years), and all were male. Of the 24 patients for whom vaccination status was reported, 20 (83%) had received age-appropriate vaccination with 2 doses, one (4%) had received partial age-appropriate vaccination with 1 dose, and three (13%) were unvaccinated. The attack rate in this camp was approximately 6% (25 of 400).

...

The median age of these patients was 14 years (range: 8 months--84 years), and 81% were male. Of the 61 patients (77%) for whom vaccine is recommended and vaccination status and age were reported, 47 (77%) had received age-appropriate vaccination, six (10%) had received partial age-appropriate vaccination, and eight (13%) were unvaccinated.

...

Ocean County, New Jersey. On September 26, the New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services was informed of eight suspected mumps cases in two Ocean County private schools for boys with both boarder and commuter students from the same religious community. The index patient, who became symptomatic at one of the boarding schools on September 6, was aged 20 years and a resident of the Borough Park neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York. Transmission was initially limited to the schools but subsequently was observed in households and the community. By October 30, a total of 40 cases had been reported. The median age of patients was 19.5 years (range: 1--65 years), and 83% were male. Mumps vaccination status was reported for 29 (73%) patients, of whom 28 (97%) had received age-appropriate vaccination.


...

Most importantly >>> Epidemiologic Summary (updated in November of 2009)

Of the 178 (99%) patients whose sex is known, 149 (84%) are male. The median age of the 178 patients for whom age is known is 14 years (range: 8 months--84 years). Of the 141 patients (79%) for whom vaccine is recommended and vaccination status and age were reported, 113 (80%) had received age-appropriate vaccination, nine (6%) had received partial age-appropriate vaccination, and 19 (13%) were unvaccinated (Table). Of the 141 patients, 102 (72%) had received 2 doses, 20 (14%) 1 dose, and 19 (13%) zero doses (Table). Complications have occurred in 16 (9%) cases, including orchitis (15 cases) and temporary deafness (1 case). Three hospitalizations for orchitis have been reported. No deaths have occurred.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5845a5.htm#tab

I have no idea where that 60% figure is being plucked from? :shrug:
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #107
123. Nope, his statement is on the money
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:40 AM by Confusious
You're using old statistics.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #123
129. uh, no, his statement is false. the article doesn't say "60% weren't vaccinated."
and her "old statistics" are from the beginning of the epidemic, which started "last summer," i.e. nearly one year ago, in 2009.

"a cluster, which started last summer at an upstate camp for Jewish boys and turned into the largest outbreak nationwide in years, continues, health officials said."


so you always assert things without having even read the report?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #129
142. "Ocean County NJ Mumps Outbreak (97%) had received age-appropriate vaccination!"
The spin can go both ways can't it Hannah. ;) The report most people here don't wish to give thought to contains data from this fall on the same outbreak. At that time the county in question had a 70% vaccination compliance rate.

It's interesting what makes the headlines isn't it? It's not that 97% of people in one county were fully vaccinated against a disease they contracted, it's that 60% in another may not have been?

:hi:

More info on my assertion below:

"Ocean County, New Jersey. On September 26, the New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services was informed of eight suspected mumps cases in two Ocean County private schools for boys with both boarder and commuter students from the same religious community. The index patient, who became symptomatic at one of the boarding schools on September 6, was aged 20 years and a resident of the Borough Park neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York. Transmission was initially limited to the schools but subsequently was observed in households and the community. By October 30, a total of 40 cases had been reported. The median age of patients was 19.5 years (range: 1--65 years), and 83% were male. Mumps vaccination status was reported for 29 (73%) patients, of whom 28 (97%) had received age-appropriate vaccination."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5845a5.htm#tab
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. How is it complicated?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. That's not obvious? n/t
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. i feel sorry for the kids suffering the disease
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 12:43 PM by mrs_p
but is this an anti-vax issue because of an autism fear or because of religion?

edit - just saw that many of the afflicted had been vaccinated - so it could be a vax failure or a mutated strain of the virus (it is a neg-sense RNA virus which are famous for mutating)
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Even is one was worried because of autism
you can get the MMR vax without thimerisol. I thought they stopped putting that stuff in children's vaccines altogether because parents were worried about it. No?
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diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
177. Or maybe vaccines are just a scam.
Lots of statistics out there showing that major diseases were disappearing on their own by the time vaccines came around. Also, I read that the only people getting polio now in the USA are the ones who have been vaccinated. There are no wild strains of polio left (in the USA). I do not understand why people continue to think they are helping themselves avoid disease by weakening their immune systems with toxins. Someday this whole vaccination scam will come crashing down. None too soon IMHO.
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #177
179. do you have links to any of that information?
as a registered nurse working in the emergency department, that information goes against everything I know, was taught, and continue to read in major medical journals. So any links to correlate and correspond with what you just posted would be great. I'm sure the CDC, NIH, and WHO (just to name a few) would be really interested in that information!

Thanks!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree. That's the problem with a "personal decision"
not to vax - it's not just a personal decision, it affects everyone else.
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It is a personal decision
But that personal decision shouldnt be allowed to put my grandchildren at risk. If they want to choose not to vaccinate then so be it. However, they shouldnt be allowed to put their kids in school with other kids.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. What about keeping sick kids home from school instead
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 02:50 PM by mzmolly
of denying others a choice? And why the assumption that vaccinated children can't spread disease?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Nope, Social Services will remove custody here.
plain and simple. You can not deny your child medical services because of jehova or some bullshit you read on the internet. Every school requires children be vaccinated.

You can always check out Sudan, they dont have much vaccination, but hey polio is cool. Smallpox was a neat disease too.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Vaccination is not a medical service, it's a supposed preventive measure.
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 03:44 PM by mzmolly
In addition, vaccination fails from time to time as demonstrated by outbreaks of disease in highly vaccinated populations. And, most states allow for conscientious objection to vaccination.

The Sudan has a completely different standard of living. This is not an apt comparison unless you wish to return to drinking contaminated water to prove that vaccines protect against all ills?

Speaking of disease, Chicken Pox is great when it spreads into the adult population.

"Goldman's research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

Dr. Goldman's findings have corroborated other independent researchers who estimate that if chickenpox were to be nearly eradicated by vaccination, the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease."


http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Vaccination is not a preventative measure. And they do not "fail."
Vaccines are neither a treatment nor a prophylactic. They are a tool in developing a group's resistance to a particular disease. Part of the social contract, if you will.

Vaccination programs that do not reach the herd immunity threshold for the particular disease in that particular population "fail." That is an implementation issue, not an issue with the vaccine itself.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Staying away from others when ill is the "social contract" I subscribe
to.

The herd immunity threshold for mumps is supposedly between 75 - 86%. We claim to have greatly reduced disease in times gone by, when the US had much lower vaccine coverage levels. Current vaccination coverage levels in the US have continually increased in recent decades. Today we're at above 90% coverage for most, if not all vaccines including mumps. Lastly, we've had several cases of disease outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations, which brings me to my initial point.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Please link to studies on those outbreaks from a reputable source. Not scum.
JAMA, NEJM, or the like. Please do not link to work product published by anti vax scum who are being paid to scare stupid people.

http://www.drgoldmanonline.com/

This is called conflict of interest.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Sure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1861205

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/114/4/1130

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/129/1/173

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm

From the CDC: "This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation."
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
94. Rabid anti-vaxers don't give a shit about the social contract.
They are libertarians on the issue. Being against vaccination is being anti-liberal and anti-society.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Vaxer scum you linked to. Retrograde thinking. Just like you dont want to drink shit water
I dont want my children to be exposed to polio because some asshole who knows jack shit about something decides they are not vaccinating their kids. Here in NC you can not register children for public schools without proving vaccination. As it should be.

Like I said the position of the state is clear vaccinate your kids or they will take custody and do it for you. BTW the wife works in medicine. They still take emergency custody of some jehova voodoo moron who is willing to let their kid die.

Scum all the same. Always looking to blame someone because their kid is sick.

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/goldman.pdf
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Are you planning to travel to the Sudan? Medicalnews.net is "vaxer scum?"
I don't want my child exposed to assholes who don't know jack shit about vaccination either. You know like those who fear Polio is running rampant in the Western Hemisphere after it was declared eradicated in 1994? And like those who claim the state will take a child who is not vaccinated when every state in the union has an exemption: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-exem.htm But, themz the breaks.

Here's another article from medicalnews.net

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20091027/Vaccination-rates-need-improvement3b-racial-and-ethnic-disparities-in-vaccination-coverage.aspx

You being a bit reactionary, no?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Goldman is a whore. He is making money based on being anti vaxer scum.
this stuff is all fine and dandy for me. it is like chemtrails and other tin foil shit. mihop scum and anti vax is about the same to me.

But stupid people actually dont vaccinate their kids and then they die.

If you dont vaccinate here you will be reported to DSS. That is the procedure followed by all three major medical providers in Raleigh Durham.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I don't need
Goldman or anyone else to demonstrate to me that the Chicken Pox vaccine mandate is questionable.

I'm not surprised that a Red State like NC would take a pro-corporate stance unless one has a 'religious' vs. scientific rationale for not vaccinating.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Your link to CDC is compelling.. States the facts.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm

TO summarize, if they had not been vaccinated it would have been much worse.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. LOL. So goes the official
talking point. :toast: to you for having complete, blind "faith" in the system.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. your link. not mine. science is cool
until it messes up your voodoo. flat earthers or vax same to me.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I provided several links and every one demonstrated that vaccine failure
occurs in highly vaccinated populations. Blind faith-ers are akin to those waiting for Armageddon, to me.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. The CDC clearly stated that the situation would be made worse
if people were not vaccinated. you want to go look for jesus on your tortilla go for it. Reality is waiting. Personally I think if your kid dies because you dont vaccinate them you should be charged with depraved indifference murder. Just like a drunk driver.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Actually they stated:
"This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%."

They went on to say it "probably" would have been worse had the population not been vaccinated in substantial numbers.

I don't look for Jesus on tortillas. I don't look to corporate driven science for perfection and complete honesty. You are the one demonstrating "blind faith" in this discussion, not I. I think people who lug sick kids around because they're vaccinated are neglectful on a personal and societal level. I don't much care uneducated zealots like you think.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Me and my wife who practices medicine. All the docs I meet
and the pediatric community are pretty much on the same page as the CDC, and its equivalent in all western nations.

Vaccinate your kids. READ YOUR LINK. IT IS COMPELLING.

"However, transmission was not sustained beyond 36 days in this outbreak, and community spread was principally among unvaccinated preschool children"

This has nothing to do with common sense of not taking sick kids to school and everything to do with vaccination.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. You seem unaware of vaccine time tables?
Many preschool kids are not considered fully vaccinated due to their age.

This has everything to do with keeping sick kids away from others. Were quarantine the practice instead of selling vaccinations, this outbreak "probably" would have been better contained because people with measles symptoms would have taken it more seriously.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. You can be a dead man shedding ebola Zaire
and not show a single symptom. You have no concept of how virus transmission works.

You are retrograde. Unless you want america to look like sudan vaccination is required. Hopefully we will continue to develop them for things like malaria and AIDS. You know that virus that infected 5 % percent of africans.

I will REPEAT 5% of africans have AIDS. Pretty staggering..22 million people.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Again, I did not suggest that one can't shed a virus before they're
ill or even after death. Read what I posted, again.

As for malaria, I think it's a warranted vaccine and it's been created under the right circumstances. I also support a vaccine to protect against AIDS. But, I wouldn't inject an infant whose not at risk with either vaccine simply because there is a need somewhere.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. What circumstances, gates foundation is working on one?
what would be needed to meet your standard?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. I think there is a need for a Malaria Vaccine and the Gates Foundation
is non-profit. Ideally vaccines would be developed based upon need, and under government control or non-profit guidance. I also thought there was a demand for an H1N1 vaccine, in spite of the fact that our family had a very mild experience before the vaccine was even widely available.

Without opening debate, I don't like the idea of hitting every infant with a HepB jab as an example. I also don't like the fact that we're probably, ultimately spreading chicken pox into the adult population where it has a greater impact. And, I don't like the fact that Gardasil is being mandated for use in children in some states. Again, I don't wish to debate every vaccine under the sun. I support choice as I've said.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #80
130. gates foundation is profitable; just not in a direct line.
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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #69
134. It's not an either or issue.
1) Get your kids vaccinated.
2) Keep your kids home from school when they are sick.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #134
139. It needn't be.
But, often vaccines as much about convenience as protecting the public health.
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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
82. I can't figure our why the vaxers
get so upset when somebody chooses not to vaccinate. It they are so confident that the vaccinations work, then why do they worry if they have been vaccinated?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Bizarre
isn't it? :hi:
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Because
There is nothing 100% and the only way you make vaccination protocols effective is to have enough of the population participating that you decrease the odds significantly of contracting the disease.


Do you deny that the smallpox vaccine eradicated small pox world wide?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. What vaccine coverage levels were necessary
to combat smallpox?
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
99. 90%
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #99
103. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #99
145. 80% was the goal according to your own source.
:hi:
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
181. You can get a waiver in NC for religious reasons
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. Not a scientifically sound option
Most illness' are transmitable before there are any symptoms. And I do offer them a choice, to homeschool rather than put others at risk.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Bolgona. Tell me how disease is transmitted before one is
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 04:28 PM by mzmolly
expelling fluids from their body i.e. sharing bodily fluids. Surely if we keep knowingly sick people away from the well, we'll see a dramatic reduction in illness. The notion that people can spread illness before being overtly ill may be true, but it's certainly more difficult to spread illness when one isn't coughing/sneezing etc.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. you shed virus before symptoms appear.(nt)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. You also shed XYZ when you have obvious symptoms. So when one is aware of being sick they have a
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 04:54 PM by mzmolly
"social responsibility" not to spread illness. You spread disease much more so, when you're expelling droplets of disease through the air via coughing and sneezing. For example: "Whooping cough can be caught through coughs and sneezes from an infected person."

http://health.vic.gov.au/immunisation/fact-sheets/factsheets/diphtheria
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Dude I am sitting here with a surgical attending in one of the best hospitals in the US
I assure you can shed virus before you show symptoms. Look no further than your genitals, HIV and Herpes can be spread by people who are unaware they are shedding virus because they have no visible symptoms.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. I don't care where your sitting "dude."
I never claimed you couldn't shed a virus before you were contagious. I said it's more likely that one will shed a virus when they're coughing and sneezing and blowing their nose, thereby spreading droplets and mucus that contain a given virus.

Bottom line keep your sick kids away from my well kid! ;)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Dont ever go to a doctors office.
you happy little unvaccinated kid may pick up measles and die because it has no immune system response.

The medical community is quite clear on this.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Where would the measles come from? Oh yeah the vaccinated
kid who just left the office and was misdiagnosed with an allergic reaction because they've been vaccinated. Probably told to resume regular activities as well. Though my fully vaccinated husband had a pretty serious case as a child. ;)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. The central american child is where it DID come from
and NC spent lots of money getting migrant workers to feel free to take their kids to get vaccinated. Not vaccinating is like leaving a loaded 45 auto sitting around your kids safety off and round in the chamber. Hey they will probably be ok, but if it goes wrong it will go really wrong.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. I disagree with your hyperbolic
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 05:59 PM by mzmolly
assertions. Unless your gun analogy can be applied to a vaccinated child who thinks his gun isn't loaded before he shoots a friend at school?
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
83. Mumps are Contagious Before onset of symptoms
Persons with mumps are usually considered most infectious from 1-2 days before until 5 days after the onset of symptoms.

I know this just doesnt fit into your anti vaccine agenda but there is something curious about the facts... they just dont go away

Up to 50% of mumps infections are not specific to any symptoms and 15-20% of all cases present without any symptoms.


http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/mumps/fact_sheet.htm
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. From your link:
How is mumps spread?

Mumps is transmitted by direct contact with saliva produced in the mouth and discharges from the nose and throat of infected individuals.


Which is what I indicated above. I said that one can shed a virus but it's not spread as easily unless you're expelling bodily fluids. I don't swap saliva with strangers if I can help it. ;) Children in childcare may share chew toys, but if the childcare has a stringent sick child policy it's surely less likely that disease will spread. And, when one child gets sick, chew toys in this setting should be removed until all is well. I worked in a childcare setting years ago. EVERY day I worked at least 10% of parents brought in sick children. I called the parents and made them come and get these kids. They should be resting, not spreading their germs around to other children. :puke:
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
117. Not a choice.
Being irresponsible and exposing others to greater risk? Not a choice. Regardless of whatever nonsense the anti-vaccine nuttters want to believe. There's something called 'herd immunity'. In a population where vaccination is at levels of c. 92%, the unvaccinated portion of the population gets the benefit of the remainder of the population's immunity. And vaccinated children don't spread vaccine-preventable diseases because they don't GET THEM.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #117
122. You may wish to familiarize yourself
with historical vaccine coverage levels before touting herd immunity stats. Also familiarize yourself with the fact that herd immunity thresholds differ depending.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #122
126. You may wish to familiarise yourself with childhood mortality stats before vaccines.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #126
131. you may wish to familiarize yourself with the pattern of that mortality
by class, & also with its diminishing harvest even prior to vaccines.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #126
136. No need
I'm not advocating a return to the pre-vaccine era.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. So does vaccine failure, waning immunity, sending sick kids to school, child care, camp etc.
The notion that we're all protected from XYZ because we had a particular vaccine at five, is flawed. Sick kids should be kept from well kids whenever possible, period.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Agreed.
I have no argument with any of that.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I think awareness helped keep swine flu in check?
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 02:55 PM by mzmolly
I've never seen such an effective public health campaign. The US Government had to essentially reteach germ theory and demand that sick people be kept from the well because we didn't have an abundance of vaccine. Common sense! :hi:
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. That and 70 million doses of vaccine. nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Which means we had a vaccination coverage level of aprox 23%
when all was said and done.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Said and done?
...You believe the H1N1 season is behind us?

I hope you are correct. Few share your optimism, however. You're right, the coverage was about 23%, well short of the 70-80% herd immunity threshold for H1N1 in the United States.

From a pure mathematical standpoint, we can expect another wave of illnesses in the coming weeks. Other factors may affect this, such as you mentioned -- more people washing their hands and staying home, good hygiene practices are quite important. Personally I doubt those measures are/were significant enough to cover that gap in coverage.

But we can certainly hope.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Of course it's not fully behind us, but it's on a downward decline.
And, I realize that it can bounce back. My point is that we need combined efforts and we should allow for choice vs. suggest that we all go about our business because we're vaccinated.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Yeah, your choice is if you dont vaccinate your kids cant attend public schools
or use any public venue. You are reported to DSS for custody hearing and potential court order to vaccinate. Vaccinations are not elective. Its like taxes, every one has to pay their share. Those who dont are punished, harshly.

First world countries vaccinate, that is what sets us apart from third world shitholes with massive mortality rates.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. You are uneducated or simply full of
shit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26337586

The rates of exemption in NC are as follows:

Policy: Medical exemptions: .1%
Religious exemptions: .4%
Philosophical exemptions: 0
Total exemptions: .5%

EVERY state in the Union allows for some kind of exemption.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Thats a shame. I know one major hospital here reports it to DSS.
Their pediatric program will not keep patients who do not vaccinate because of liability and ethics concerns. That looks like a law that needs attention.

That one percent of morons is supported by the rest. Like assholes who dont pay their taxes.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Thankfully for you, in the fundi state in which you live, robotic compliance
is @ 99.5%. Reporting something to DHHS doesn't mean they're acting on your narrow minded fears. They know the law, you don't.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. It does mean they will tell you that you need to find another doctor
and DSS will investigate claims made by doctors.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. And, I'd gladly
comply. And the DSS will investigate claims based upon evidence that merits an investigation.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
127. Many of them were vaccinated!
According to the articles.

So it wasn't a personal decision at all.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
26. Those who sell failing vaccines should be
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 03:34 PM by mzmolly
"called out and embarrassed in the public square." If you have confidence in vaccination, you shouldn't fear an un-vaccinated child any more than a vaccinated child.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. We got to root cause real quick.
vaccine failure? Please post a link to that from the DHHS. Sounds like an opinion to me.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. When a vaccinated
person gets the disease they were vaccinated against, it's a failure of said vaccine to protect. Not sure why you need a link to conclude the obvious.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yeah I like links. Especially ones from the CDC or DHHS. This is not church
i am not here to take your position on faith alone. Link it please.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. I've provided
you links above.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. "Had there been a substantial number of unvaccinated"
Had there been a substantial number of unvaccinated or inadequately vaccinated students in the high school and the community, transmission in Sangamon County probably would have been sustained...

your source makes my point.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. "Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students"
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 04:45 PM by mzmolly
The primary point is made in the title. The CDC grasps at straws to explain why there was an outbreak in a 100% vaccinated community and uses the failure to sell more vaccines. Much like Bush became "the guy who kept us safe" after his failure to protect us on 911.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Read your link. I did. CDC states lack of vaccination would have been much worse.
f waning immunity is not a problem, this outbreak suggests that measles transmission can occur within the 2%-10% of expected vaccine failures (5,7). However, transmission was not sustained beyond 36 days in this outbreak, and community spread was principally among unvaccinated preschool children. The infrequent occurrence of measles among highly vaccinated persons suggests that this outbreak may have resulted from chance clustering of otherwise randomly distributed vaccine failures in the community. That measles transmission can occur among vaccine failures makes it even more important to ensure persons are adequately vaccinated. Had there been a substantial number of unvaccinated or inadequately vaccinated students in the high school and the community, transmission in Sangamon County probably would have been sustained.

To summarize, vaccinate your damn kids.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. You're being dishonest again,
and inserting your emotional view in place of the "science." Here's the quote you continually take out of context.

"transmission in Sangamon County probably would have been sustained."

And the fools who paid for vaccination "probably" wont mind if the vaccine fails to protect their children. They'll "probably" continue to blindly support the notion that vaccines always protect in spite of obvious failures. And they'll "probably" find some un-vaccinated person to blame in spite of shelling out money for protection that failed them.

To summarize, vaccinate your damn kids and if a vaccine fails to protect, pretend it's a great case for vaccination.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. I posted the ENTIRE last paragraph. The FINDINGS section
that define it as an anomaly and then go on to state that the increased resistance provided was helpful. Scientists use terms like probably instead of just lying like Wakefield.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. Again there was a faillure to protect in a fully vaccinated (100%) population
and the best you have is, it "probably" would have been worse if... I say it "probably" would have been better if sick kids stayed home.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Lets be clear. Do you vaccinate you kids?
if not are you willing to accept their death as a result of your position? That is the position medically, just like a Jehovahs witness can refuse treatment and die for voodoo, they can not refuse treatment for their kids.
If this was 1960 would you give your child a polio vaccine or just take the risk?

Thats the bottom line, would you take a depraved indifference murder charge if your kid died because you refused to vaccinate?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. Death from what?
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 06:38 PM by mzmolly
What is my child at risk of contracting today? If it was 1962 (when the vaccine was licensed) yes my child would have the polio vaccine. We considered H1N1, but got the flu before the vaccine was available to us.

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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. I think we know the answer to that.
My suspicion is she is rabbidly anti vaccine. I bet shed even deny that the smallpox vaccine erradicated small pox world
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #89
98. Willfully ignorant.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. Your point?
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 12:35 AM by mzmolly
From your link:

"The development of surveillance systems to find cases and outbreaks so that more focused containment measures could be implemented."

You do understand that containment involves quarantine as well as vaccination?

In addition, In Northern Europe a number of countries had eliminated smallpox by 1900, and by 1914, the incidence in most industrialized countries had decreased to comparatively low levels. Vaccination continued in industrialized countries, until the mid to late 1970s as protection against reintroduction. Australia and New Zealand are two notable exceptions; neither experienced endemic smallpox and never vaccinated widely, relying instead on protection by distance and strict quarantines.<46>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #102
143. Dont you realize that Wikipedia
Is just a bunch of people sitting at home writing articles...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. Which is why one should check the sources
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 12:28 PM by mzmolly
in the reference section. For example: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bookshelf/br.fcgi?book=vacc&part=A45#A47

"Of the other major industrialized countries, as they are often referred to today, Canada interrupted transmission of smallpox in the early 1940s and Japan about 1950. Vaccination continued in all the industrialized countries, as it did in the United States, until the mid to late 1970s as a protection in case smallpox was reintroduced. Australia and New Zealand were two notable exceptions. These countries, protected by distance and strict quarantine measures, never vaccinated widely but also never became endemic for smallpox."
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #89
100. Played a role?

The only reason it was eradicated was because of the vaccine

5000 years, an no one thought of quarantining the ill? But it was still around.

Or of being clean? it was still around.

You know, one of horsemen of the apocalypse was disease. I always wondered where he would find victims, since we were curing so many things. Now I know.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. According to the historical record, vaccination was part of the solution
as was forced quarantine.

Eradication

Vaccination during the Smallpox Eradication and Measles Control Program in Niger, February, 1969.

Since Jenner demonstrated the effectiveness of cowpox to protect humans from smallpox in 1796, various attempts were made to eliminate smallpox on a regional scale. As early as 1803, the Spanish Crown organized a mission (the Balmis expedition) to transport the vaccine to the Spanish colonies in the Americas and the Philippines, and establish mass vaccination programs there.<40> The US Congress passed the Vaccine Act of 1813 to ensure that safe smallpox vaccine would be available to the American public. By about 1817, a very solid state vaccination program existed in the Dutch East Indies.<41> In British India a program was launched to propagate smallpox vaccination, through Indian vaccinators, under the supervision of European officials.<42> By 1832, the federal government of the United States established a smallpox vaccination program for Native Americans.<43> In 1842, the United Kingdom banned inoculation, later progressing to mandatory vaccination. The British government introduced compulsory smallpox vaccination by an Act of Parliament in 1853.<44> In the United States, from 1843 to 1855 first Massachusetts, and then other states required smallpox vaccination. Although some disliked these measures,<34> coordinated efforts against smallpox went on, and the disease continued to diminish in the wealthy countries. By 1897, smallpox had largely been eliminated from the United States.<45> In Northern Europe a number of countries had eliminated smallpox by 1900, and by 1914, the incidence in most industrialized countries had decreased to comparatively low levels. Vaccination continued in industrialized countries, until the mid to late 1970s as protection against reintroduction. Australia and New Zealand are two notable exceptions; neither experienced endemic smallpox and never vaccinated widely, relying instead on protection by distance and strict quarantines.<46>

...

The last major European outbreak of smallpox was in 1972 in Yugoslavia, after a pilgrim from Kosovo returned from the Middle East, where he had contracted the virus. The epidemic infected 175 people, causing 35 deaths. Authorities declared martial law, enforced quarantine, and undertook widespread re-vaccination of the population, enlisting the help of the WHO. In two months, the outbreak was over.<50> Prior to this, there had been a smallpox outbreak in May–July 1963 in Stockholm, Sweden, brought from the Far East by a Swedish sailor; this had been dealt with by quarantine measures and vaccination of the local population.<51>


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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #101
110. If the virus was still around

forced quarantines would have done nothing. Look at all the invasive life in the great lakes, or around the world.

The vaccine was 99.95% of the solution, everything else .05% when used in conjunction with the vaccine.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to get across, pointing out 2 places that make up little population and land area of the world, or 1 quarantine that happen while the eradication was in progress. Seen someone with smallpox lately?

undertook widespread re-vaccination of the population

Missed that part, huh?

You seem to have a thing for the inconsequential, or stuff that has no relation. You'd be looking in a pile of poo for the cure to diabetes.


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. I did not suggest that quarantine alone
was effective in the mass elimination of small pox. You decided to highlight my remark, that vaccination was part of the solution and pretend I meant something other than what I stated.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #111
114. What else should I think?

You're on this post, crowing about how "herd immunity failed" ( it didn't 60% of the kids where unvacced ) talking about how vaccines isn't 100% effective. Nothing is 100%. That's the first thing you learn in science class.

Pretend, I'm not pretending. Maybe you are. Form the other posts, what am I suppose to think? You keep saying "part", you keep highlighting "quarantines" which would have done nothing, in the long run, without the vaccine. It was all of the solution. nothing less.

If you don't want me to take it that way, then pick other words to use. A dictionary would be helpful, so you can look up the meaning of "part", and maybe some other words to get your meaning across, and I don't take it as "something other then what you stated."

Part

1 a (1) : one of the often indefinite or unequal subdivisions into which something is or is regarded as divided and which together constitute the whole (2) : an essential portion or integral element b : one of several or many equal units of which something is composed or into which it is divisible : an amount equal to another amount <mix one part of the powder with three parts of water>

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Actually, 70% of the group in question were fully vaccinated according to the CDC
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:20 AM by mzmolly
I replied in depth here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4259443&mesg_id=4260262

I don't need a dictionary. I am know what part means and now you do as well. ;)

Goodnight. :hi:
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #115
120. Now you insult my intelligence
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:41 AM by Confusious
The page you posted from the CDC is june-oct 2009, not aug 'til now.

Title: Mumps Outbreak --- New York, New Jersey, Quebec, 2009

At least 60 percent of the people in Rockland who have gotten mumps during the current outbreak had not been fully immunized, Facelle said.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100206/NEWS03/2060356/More-than-300-cases-of-mumps-reported-in-Monsey-New-Square

Feb 9, 2010

I really shouldn't expect anything else though. Not even different dates are enough to punch through the anti-vaxxer psyche.

Nice try though, play again?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #120
125. Actually it was through the end of October, which obviously includes August.
I'd need to see statistical confirmation of the sixty percent claim given the wealth of evidence I noted from this SAME outbreak in New York solidly refutes this notion. The CDC data indicates time and time again that coverage levels were anywhere from 70 percent coverage to near 90 percent. You insult your own intelligence.
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jobwithout Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. Do you argue
That the smallpox vaccine erradicated small pox world wide?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
92. No. Do you think that we should bring back the small pox vaccine?
Do you think that we had a 100% small pox vaccine compliance rate around the globe before small pox was eradicated? Do you think that quarantine measures played a role in eradicating small pox? Do you think that we should equate every vaccine that comes down the pike with the small pox vaccine? Do you think that all vaccines are equally important? Do you think that we should make vaccines free of carcinogens and neurotoxins if possible?
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #92
112. Do you think that we should make vaccines free of carcinogens and neurotoxins if possible?

See the problem here is, if they can't, you'll say they are lying, if they can, well so much the better.

The only answer you want is one you'll like, which may not be the one you get.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. The CDC has claimed that they're focusing on making "safer" vaccines for years.
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:03 AM by mzmolly
So they claim the can. They've done a few things, I'd like to see more.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. Please provide a link to prove that statement
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:24 AM by Confusious
I'd like to see it.

I also like how you talk about "safer." we all want things to be safer, our cars, our homes, our food. So if I argue with you about it, I'm the bad guy, I don't want things to be safer.

But you know, I just don't see it. I've traveled across the United States, lived in 5 states, and have had people I've worked with in those states, friends in all of those states, I have family members in ten states, and there's one thing they have never, ever said when we talked ( and I like to talk )

"That was caused by a vaccine I got."

"My child has a problem because of a vaccine."

I got an MMR booster last week. Last time I checked, I'm still all here ( yep)

So how do you make something that has a safety record even an airline would kill for, safer?

I don't think you do. I think, what you want, is just to sow FUD, because if you get to say "safer" it makes it sound like they are unsafe. Which would not be the truth.

You deny it all the time.

But why crow so loudly when you think something failed?


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. Most infants
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:35 AM by mzmolly
and small children can't tell you if they've had a reaction to a vaccine. Most adults may not make a connection if they don't know what to look for. However there are people who have been greatly impacted. In fact, some post here on DU.

They CDC has said essentially, given vaccines have been so effective, they can now concentrate on making even "safer" vaccines. So called accomplishments in this regard would be the reduction of mercury in most vaccines, partial cell vaccines and perhaps most notably the polio vaccine IPV vs. OPV.

http://www.polioeradication.org/vaccines.asp

# Disadvantages of Oral Polio Vaccine

Although OPV is safe and effective, in extremely rare cases (approx. 1 in every 2.5 million doses of the vaccine) the live attenuated vaccine virus in OPV can cause paralysis - either in the vaccinated child, or in a close contact. Immune deficiency of the recipient may be among the causes. This - extremely low - risk of vaccine-associated polio (VAPP) is well known to, and accepted by most public health programmes in the world because without OPV, hundreds of thousands of children would be crippled every year. Immunization programmes in countries where the risk of wild-virus caused polio has come down to zero are now considering combined immunization schedules using both OPV and IPV.

Rarely, a strain of poliovirus in OPV may genetically change and circulate among a population. These are known as vaccine-derived polioviruses (VDPV) and knowledge on them is growing.

# INACTIVATED POLIO VACCINE (IPV)

Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) needs to be injected and works by producing protective antibodies in the blood (serum immunity) - thus preventing the spread of poliovirus to the central nervous system. However, it induces only very low levels of immunity to polivirus locally, inside the gut. As a result, it provides individual protection against polio paralysis but, unlike OPV, cannot prevent the spread of wild polio virus.


I'll provide more info tomorrow as I'm hitting the hay. You can call the CDC and ask "is it true you're working toward the development of safer vaccines" they'll confirm unless they've decided to backtrack. ;) 800-CDC-INFO
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #119
124. said essentially?

So your now putting words in their mouth? Like you were complaining I was doing to you?

I still see no link.

Everything has advantages and disadvantages, and vaccines are no different. I like how you plucked the disadvantages of one, and the advantages of the other, to make them both look bad. Way to go! But you're playing to your base, the uniformed.

No vaccine uses pure mercury, and the only people who keep harping on that crap are anti-vaxxers.

"So called accomplishments"

Anti-vaxxer, plain and simple.





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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #124
137. Big pharma
sales rep, paid or not, plain and simple.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
91. Vaccinate your fucking children, assholes.
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 05:59 PM by Ian David
Even if some children receive a bad batch that is ineffective, it only becomes an issue when other people around them are unvaccinated.

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. I thought even the vaccinated could carry and transmit. n/t
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #93
104. Let us not confuse the pro-pharma
folks with fact please. :hi:
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #104
118. Anyone who is for vaccinations is pro-pharma?..........eom
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #118
140. If anyone who questions anything they hear about any vaccine is
anti-vaccine, yep. See how that works?
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
108. I happen to know a Orthodox family that has REFUSED immunization
which imho is a big mistake. Not sure if they live in Rockland County, but Monsey is where my wife's uncle lives...

Hawkeye-X
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
109. I caught the Mumps at 18 despite being vaccinated!
It can happen.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
128. there's a higher percent of kids vaccinated today than ever in history.
and elementary students can't enter a public school without being up to date on mandated vaccinations.


so pretty much your post is a font of misinfo.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #128
132. You'll have to argue with mzmolly on that point. nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #132
144. Allow me to clarify. The meme is that kids have to be vaccinated before school. The truth is
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 11:16 AM by mzmolly
that vaccination status has to be on file with the school board. Essentially, a sheet of paper has to be signed stating when various vaccines were received and/or why you're not vaccinating. Some states only allow for a Religious or medical exemption. Others, philosophical, medical and religious. Schools are very good at gaining compliance, however.

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #144
148. You probably should disable your air bags and take out your seatbelts in your car...
Those things can be deadly. nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. Another
unrelated straw man. Welcome to the conversation. :hi:
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. How so?
They have killed people in the past. I used to work with a co-worker that disabled all his airbags in his cars after he suffered explosive burns.

When was your last vaccination?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #150
152. More importantly
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 02:28 PM by mzmolly
when was your last vaccination? Mine was about 12 years ago. An MMR while pregnant because in spite of being vaccinated as a child, I had no immunity to measles. The vax was given to me at the urging of my nurse/practitioner. This turned out to be bad advice.

Regarding airbags, small children are supposed to be kept away from them by sitting in a back seat. Do you have a problem with their thoughtful use? Or should every child sit next to an airbag because they may prevent deaths in adults?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. Interesting. Did you catch autism?
Many adults are also killed by airbags as well as seatbelts. You should have the option of having both installed or removed at the dealership.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #153
154. Interesting. Did you answer my question? When was your last vaccine?
Did your child die sitting next to an airbag today? If so does that mean they're safe for all children and should be installed in back seats too? Do you have anything relevant to say on this subject? Or do you plan to continue with unrelated banter?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #154
156. Mine?
Both flu vaccines about 4 months ago (I was worried about catching autism, but somehow squeaked by). Before that, tetanus about 1.5 years ago.

No, but others have. Why are you against choice? If a parent deems it unsafe why would you make them have seatbelts?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. Had your adult pertussis booster? Or are you a typical hypocrite?
When you want to discuss vaccines I'll be glad to. I'm not taking your seat belt comparison seriously, for obvious reasons.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #157
160. I have no clue....
I'm in the dr. every month for a stick and I take whatever they recommend me at the time. It all kind of runs together.

Since it's an apt comparison, I can see why you don't want to address it.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. Not in the least
bit apt. I'll take your uncertainty as a no on the adult pertussis booster.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #161
163. Is pertussis the whooping cough shot they gave me last year?
Said something about danger to infants? If so, then yes.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #163
164. Be sure to have titers checked
for the other disease as well. Vaccines immunity can wear off.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #164
166. Huh?
Titers?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #166
170. Yeah, titers.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003333.htm

The antibody titer is also used to determine:

* The strength of an immune response to the body's own tissue in diseases such as systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) and other autoimmune disorders
* Your need for a booster immunization
* Whether a recent vaccine caused a strong enough response from your immune system to protect you against the specific disease
* Whether you have, or recently had, an infection such as mononucleosis or viral hepatitis.

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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. I seem fine....
I'll let you know if I turn into a werewolf. Oh wait, is that lycathropy? I always get lupus and that one mixed up.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #132
171. you've misunderstood either her or me.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
133. Don't forget that H1N1 vaccine killed thousands
Oh wait a minute.

Turns out no-one died from the dreaded H1N1 vaccine after all. There weren't even a significant number of severe reactions.

Well, nevermind. The antivax idiocy movement moves on.

- B
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
135. Good, maybe it will make them sterile and they won't reproduce.
This shouldn't be happening in this
day and age.

Get Vaccinated!
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
141. Even if vaccinated you can get sick, but it still helps you from getting really sick
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #141
147. Ya know, we had a generation or two grow up recently...
where most of the boys and some of the girls emulated the spitting practiced by athletes. Neither of these generations remembers or knows of the campaigns against spitting in public that were carried during the 20s and 30s to help knock out TB.

Quarantine has been mentioned as a preventative, but actually, during the days when Quarantine was ordered, only the sick individual was kept at home. Other members were allowed to go to school and work and out to shop. They were, of course, spreaders of most diseases. Typhoid continues to spread in unimmunized people with the carriers labeled Typhoid Marys.

Immunization is not 100%. Few things in this life are 100% anything. But, immunization is the only game in town for now. The higher the number of immunized people, the fewer people come down with many of the old dread diseases that still hover around us. Just as these same diseases hovered back in the time before immunizations became available.

Go back in time a bit, perhaps around 100-125 years. You find that only about 50% of all children lived beyond their 16th birthdays. Entire families were wiped out--check the obits in any surviving newspapers of that time.

There are some side effects. There are some really bad reactions. But the bottom line is that most children live now to maturity and beyond. Those who refuse to become immunized threaten the rest of us who remember the bad old days.

And that, my friends, is the bottom line. Survival.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. 100-125 years ago medicine
was completely different. We didn't have antibiotic interventions, mass access to emergency rooms, clean water and so on. Regardless, I doubt the statistic that 50% of Americans died of communicable disease in 1910. Where did you get that?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005131.html In 1910 we had 14.7 deaths per 1000 people and today we have roughly 8 or 9. My great grandparents combined had nineteen children. All lived into adulthood as did their offspring, other than one who died of a ruptured appendix.

That said, I'm glad we have options like vaccination, antibiotic interventions and so on. That doesn't mean that I'll personally rush out and get every vaccine ever produced however.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #151
155. Exactly, people should be able to pick which vaccinations they deem safe or painkillers...
Or anti-biotics for that matter. I shouldn't have to subject my children to tetanus vaccinations.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #155
158. Did you fear Chicken Pox before the
vaccine too? I managed to live decades without getting HepB. You?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #158
162. I missed my Easter Egg hunt as a kid due to chicken pox...
Also still have a few scars on my face. I have gotten both the Hep B and Hep A vaccine.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. I have permanent immunity due to childhood infection.
No scars to speak of. I've had neither Hep vaccine given I'm not in a high risk group. My infant wasn't either, so we opted out.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #165
167. You do not have permanent immunity regardless of infection...
Shingles is still a real danger.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Chickenpox and shingles are two diseases caused by the same virus.
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 03:48 PM by mzmolly
"One episode of chickenpox usually means lifelong immunity against a second attack. However, people who have had mild infections may be at greater risk for a breakthrough infection later on."

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/who_gets_chickenpox_shingles_000082_3.htm

Not sure pushing pox into the adult population with childhood vaccines is such a great idea under the circumstances?

"Adults have the greatest risk for dying from chickenpox..."

One wonders what might happen when our kids are adults and their chicken pox vaccines collectively wane in efficacy? Perhaps an adult booster recommendation? :freak:

Also, there no data yet as to whether or not the CP vaccine will prevent shingles. There is a vaccine for shingles though. It's got a 50% chance of working.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. Your point?
Besides that you were wrong?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #172
176. ... is clear
and I'm not wrong.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #176
178. Inability to admit one is wrong is a sign of a zealot.
"I have permanent immunity due to childhood infection." This is demonstrably false. Be careful, you're slipping into fanaticism here.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #178
182. "... almost every case of chicken pox provides lifelong immunity..." ~ Penn State Medical Center
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 09:20 PM by mzmolly
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/c/chickenpox.htm

You keep pretending that I'm a zealot with your desperate quibbling if you choose. As you say when defending vaccine failures "nothing is 100%" but by and large most people who contract chicken pox naturally, obtain lifelong immunity.



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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. So now almost is the same as permanently?
Edited on Mon Feb-08-10 09:31 PM by WriteDown
From your link:

"Adults are much more likely than children to suffer dangerous complications and account for more than half of all chicken pox deaths."

Guess which age group accounts for the other chicken pox deaths. I'll give you a hint, it's not adults.

Also, what do you know about chicken pox during pregnancy?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. No lifelong = permanent and permanent is preferable to temporary in this case.
Edited on Tue Feb-09-10 12:03 AM by mzmolly
Speaking of infants and pregnant women, I'd much rather expose both groups to those who had chicken pox as children, than the masses whose vaccine may be waning in a decade or two. But again, I support your choice to vaccinate.

I'm doing my best to let this monster of a thread die now. :hi:

Peace
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #184
185. You seem to leave out a few adjectives there....
I'm sure mothers who lose their children to chicken pox or pregnant mothers whose babies are born deformed feel the same way. Necessary sacrifices in the anti-vax crusade. :eyes:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #185
186. You must be young?
Goodnight.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #167
169. then neither do the vaccinated.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #169
174. True....
Not 100%. Nothing can ever be. Although better to be vaccinated than risk the diseases complications in most cases.
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #147
159. no argument from me, i am pro vaccine
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
180. Obviously vaccines are not infallible . . .
This is exactly why those who run around spewing the garbage of how bad the MMR vaccine is should be called aout and embarrassed in the public square. Also there should be zero exemptions to this for school children. If you dont want to vaccinate your kids then home school them.

THIS is exactly why fanatacism re vaccines -- "never met one I didn't like" -- is inane.

There are many problems with vaccines -- from bad batches to plain ole contamination --

and they do damage.

Meanwhile, obviously a slightly different strain of the mumps can get thru any shield put

up by our vaccine --

PLUS, let's be clear that while there are many adverse and serious effects of vaccines,

I don't think all the children in England are dying of mumps!!

The concept of vaccines holds us all hostage in order to protect a few --

This would be like having everyone suspected of being a terrorist and treated like one until

proven untrue -- Oh, oops! that also seems to be going on in America these days!

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