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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:37 PM
Original message
Road salt is poisoning water bodies, study finds
Source: Globe and Mail

Road salt is poisoning water bodies, study finds
During winter thaws, some streamshave salinity levels just under those found in the ocean

MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT

From Friday's Globe and Mail
Published on Friday, Mar. 05, 2010 12:00AM EST

Last updated on Friday, Mar. 05, 2010 5:37AM EST

One of the most detailed investigations ever conducted in Canada into the fate of road salt has found that it is polluting groundwater and causing some streams during winter thaws to have salinity levels just under those found in the ocean.

The elevated salt readings were detected in Pickering, where researchers from the University of Toronto have been studying how the salt spread on highways, such as the 401, and other roadways through suburban sprawl affects water quality. They found that so much salty water from the community is ending up in Frenchman's Bay, a scenic lagoon on the shores of Lake Ontario, that the small water body is being poisoned.

"Our findings are pretty dramatic, and the effects are felt year-round," said Nick Eyles, a geology professor at the university and the lead researcher on the project. "We now know that 3,600 tonnes of road salt end up in that small lagoon every winter from direct runoff in creeks and effectively poison it for the rest of the year."

He called the findings, which were published recently in the journal Sedimentary Geology, "a really bad-news story" involving a "relentless chemical assault on a watershed."

The Pickering area provided researchers with an ideal place to study the effects of road-salt spreading, because most of the city lies within a relatively compact 27-square-kilometre watershed, where it was easy for pollution monitors to track where salt spread on roads ended up.

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/science/road-salt-is-poisoning-water-bodies-study-finds/article1490631/?cid=art-rail-windows
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. NOT using road salt for this very reason cost the last mayor of Seattle his job
now we're going to use salt, but it probably won't snow here for 10 years.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. that was a good example of his obstinate stupidity, but not the only one
his passing by "executive order" (a la GWBush) banning guns in city parks, etc. contrary to state law and against the advice of the attorney general was another example.

nickels was a putz.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. that`s been known for years
there`s other stuff but the expense is prohibitive....
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Plus it smells like rotting garbage in the spring
...I know waaaaay too much about this stuff. :D
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I was just wondering about this a couple days ago.
Considering the tons and tons of salt used every year, I'd be shocked if it didn't have serious affect to the environs.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. That is why you see signs announcing Road Salt Not Used in northern NH & MA
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Heated streets are the answer
It will happen, and dramatically reduce pot holes in cold weather, but it's costly.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It will never happen
in rural states.
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. It will eventually, but it will just take a lot longer
Some rural streets are still dirt roads.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Salt is nasty w/ out a doubt but ...
.... how much is head busted open on the sidewalk after slipping on the ice worth?

.... how much is the car skidding on ice and getting into a wreck worth?

i do winter snow work and use salt all the time and nothing melts
packed snow and ice like rock salt .... it is all a trade off.
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. Yes, yes, yes!!!
We should ABSOLUTELY be destroying all the marine life on this planet so that people can go safely drive their cars in a blizzard! Glad you're focusing on what's important!

:sarcasm:
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm wondering
if you've got totally different drainage systems over there compared with what we've got the UK if you've rain water gulleys effectively draining into a freshwater lake . :shrug:
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. This is referring to highways, not city streets. nt
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. No difference here
of which I'm aware. :shrug:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bring back studded snow tires and forget the road salt!
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Which destroy the roads. You can't win for losin' with cars. The answer is public transportation.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Get real, there will never be public transportation to every destination.
However, it is far better to cause a little road-wear than to go into a slide on icy pavement. It is also better than pouring tons of road salt on our roads, and, eventually into our soil.
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RantinRavin Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. And how eaxctly do those public transportation buses
Drive on the icy roads?
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Exactly, thank you! Road salt does far more damage to pavement, not to mention
vegetation, metal, and nearby waterways suffering the resulting increased salinity. Freshwater fish and other inland water creatures can not survive in salty or brackish water.

As the proud owner of studded DynaGlass XSTs in the early 1970s, I can attest that these tires gave any car any size better traction on icy surfaces than larger 4 wheel drive vehicles. If you were lucky enough to have them on all four wheels, you could even maintain control over "black ice", and vehicles following behind you had safer driving because you had just "roughed" the previously slick surface.

Ask any parent taking young children to school, if they would opt for waiting for a bus. Ask Grandma if she would like hauling bags of groceries on the subway. Ask Uncle Fred if he would enjoy lugging roofing cement and tar paper home from the hardware store on to the commuter train. Public transportation is great for home to work urban/suburban commuter travel, but far from practical for commonplace trips.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. eek that's not good
x(
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Is the salt just draining into the rivers/lakes etc...
or is the salt contained in plowed snow removed and dumped in streams/lakes?

Studded tires are legal in Oregon...they work but are hell on the roads or so say the experts. They do work.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Its mixed with sand where I live in upstate NY.most of the effects..
dissapate with the torrential spring rains. There are places that use the liquid calcium chloride which is considerable worse. My state has a bare road policy & I agree with it. Its obvious some places must be using globs of it.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well I'd like to see the practice stopped...
Whats wrong with taking winter a little slower?
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-05-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. If people can't get out to work
They don't get paid. If they can't go out safely to see a movie or go shopping, those businesses suffer and their employees join the ranks of the unemployed.

If they allow compacted snow to remain on the roads, the surface melts during the day and refreezes at night causing a nice sheet of ice. It's just not safe.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I grew up in Wyoming.......at the foot of the Rocky mountains...
Sometimes it even snows there in July.
So I know all about snow and ice.

In Wyoming...often no one even bothers to plow the roads.
They let the 4-wheelers etc get out first..and then everyone just drives on top of the packed snow and ice. Most families have a truck or 4-wheel drive anyways.

Slick ice and snow in winter is not half as slick as Wyoming red clay gumbo after a rain storm. :P

If it gets too slick on the ice...or gumbo....they throw on some gravel..everyone carries a shovel and a bag or two of gravel and/or cat litter in the trunk...works good.

If you get stuck..you just ask the local rancher and they will come pull you out of the ditch...for free.

Schools don't shut down because it snows...it would have to be a white-out and then everyone just stays put.

If it's too nasty..you don't go to work...work will still be there tomorrow.

You don't see newspaper headlines when three feet of snow is dumped overnight...at least not big ones...its just not that newsworthy.

If the ambulance cant get to you..the snowmobiles will.

You learn how to deal with winter because you have to.

You keep a little red ball on your radio antenia..so you can find your car in the snowdrifts.

Of course..in Wyoming you can see people out in sweat shirts and cut-off shorts in a blizzard too. :P

Its got to get down into the 50 or 40 degrees before the coats go on.

They bar-b-que year round too. :)
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I live in the Southern Rocky mountains
And I'm very familiar with life above 7500ft. We deal with winter by plowing and salting our roads. We depend on ski tourism and we can't just shut the doors and say "the hell with it" when it snows.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. You cant keep poisoning the waters either...
Try gravel instead of salt.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. well...
In Wyoming...often no one even bothers to plow the roads.
They let the 4-wheelers etc get out first..and then everyone just drives on top of the packed snow and ice. Most families have a truck or 4-wheel drive anyways.


First, Wyoming, as beautiful as it is, is a desolate wasteland in the winter with the lowest population density in the continental US. And most of the US are trying to get away from 4x4s and suvs to save fuel.

If you get stuck..you just ask the local rancher and they will come pull you out of the ditch...for free.

What if the nearest local rancher is 10 miles away and you happen not to be a triathlon athlete? What happens if you wreck your car and kill yourself instead of just getting stuck?

If it's too nasty..you don't go to work...work will still be there tomorrow.

Maybe, maybe not if you happen to be an emergency worker, or a medical worker..

If the ambulance cant get to you..the snowmobiles will.

How long does that take? And what about states that don't have much snow, but always have a bunch of ice?

I don't know what the answer is, but safe winter travel is pretty necessary about everywhere. I will bet that roads will continue to get salt until there is a better reasonable option....it may be a while.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. It's our duty...
nay, our SACRED duty, to destroy the environment for our economic convenience! Let us pray.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. exactly
large sections of seattle were literally unpassable by car for DAYS because our (former) stupid mayor and his policy of no salt

it was especially ironic considering that most of seattle borders PUGET SOUND, not a fresh water lake, or stream

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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. We can't all call out sick for four months out of the year.
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. slow or fast, you can fall fast on ice
i witnessed as a man broke his arm while walking slowly on icy cobblestones.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-06-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. Big problem.. My mother preferred when they dumped sand/ gravel to the
salt. The salt slushies the rd and makes it slick sometimes... and does a number on cars.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. My state uses a combination of salt and gravel
of coarse my state is one of the largest salt mining states in the country too..within 50 miles of me are Morton, American Salt, and Carey salt mines...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Important news. Thanks for posting.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
34. I found that wood ash from our stove works just as well in our driveway
There are some natural salts found in wood ash that, combined with the darker color of the ash itself, melted the hell out of the ice on our driveway on sunny days. As the ice melts, it carries the ash into the lawn as a shot of fertilizer.

Unfortunately, that's probably not very practical to apply to roads.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Actually, it is, in a way
When I worked operations in Idaho years ago, the primary 'sanding' material was crushed cinders from volcanic deposits. The older hands claimed that the biggest benefit of this material was that it was pulverized under traffic, blackening the surface thus promoting melting.

I think the climate (sunny winters, moderate temps) like they have in the west made a difference.

The biggest change has to be in attitude. On high speed roadways, we probably need deicers. But on residential/secondary streets? Around town here, liberal use of sanding material at intersections would be more than adequate, in lieu of mass application of salt on every sq ft of pavement.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
35. Winter hibernation should be mandatory.
G'night.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ever since we covered the "Salt Cycle" in college biology....
I knew dumping tens of millions of tons of salt on roads shipped in from a different geological location would have to have an effect on the environment.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
40. Could one re-engineer roads to act like a sponge?
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 01:25 PM by Taverner
Thus retaining all of the salt within them?

Just a thought

There has to be a solution other than "Go back to horses and buggies!"
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