Conservative Latinos Rethink Party Ties

Source: WSJ

Adam Bustos, a third-generation Mexican-American, has voted Republican since Ronald Reagan ran for president. But he has been reconsidering his party affiliation since Arizona State Gov. Jan Brewer signed the nation's toughest immigration law last month.

"I've been thinking I might leave the party," said Mr. Bustos, a 58-year-old Arizona native. "A lot of my Latino Republican friends have been talking about it after this law."

The new Arizona law requires police to question people whom they suspect are in the U.S. illegally. Supporters say the law is necessary to combat rampant illegal border crossings. Opponents say it can't be enforced without violating civil liberties.

Many Hispanic-Americans say they feel stung by a law they allege invites racial profiling, incites hatred and discriminates against all Latinos.

The law in Arizona was passed by a Republican legislature and signed by a GOP governor. Republican lawmakers in Texas, Utah and several other states have said they would consider introducing laws similar to the one passed in Arizona.


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703969204575219402083722816.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_PoliticsNCampaign_4

more reactionary than they are now,

That makes no sense.

under a bus post haste, for a shot at a bunch of homophobic, anti choice repubs? I do

To make up for what they might lose on the left.

I like the idea that the few minorities in the Republican Party are beginning to see where their interests really lie. What the Catholic Bishops say doesn't mean a thing when you're getting pulled over constantly and asked for your papers, and then detained. The abortion your neighbor might have and that gay couple's marital business is suddenly in the back of your mind when your "everyday" rights are threatened.

And the Bishops' disallowing Catholics from voting for any candidate who is pro-choice, which automatically urges Catholics to lean Republcan.

not around abortion, imo.

Now quite a few of them vote Republican or Independent, or simply don't vote, due to a single issue, and that's in obedience to their bishops and to Church teaching. Many Catholics have been voting against their socio-economic interests for some time due to abortion.

Believe me, abortion has been a godsend for the GOP for decades now.

lol

:)

lol

Catholics are hardly a monolithic bloc, but a whole lot fewer vote Democratic due to Church teaching than they otherwise would.

I lived in an Irish Catholic hood and you bet everyone I knew was a Democrat and had a picture of Kennedy somewhere up on a wall.

who was himself a victim raised his kids in the church. His oldest son is getting married in an SF cathedral this month. I wouldn't be putting my kids at their disposal or asking for my marriage to be blessed by these people.

It's administration policy, part of Rahmbo's winning strategy.

I'd rather kiss a Rhino.

And then calculate.

WTF? :wtf:

I mean, seriously, WTF?? The Dems want to court homophobic, anti choice repubs?
News to me.

For the life of me, I can't see why any Latino should be republican. They are the Jews of the USA. The GOP has made them the scapegoat for all our economic ills, not to mention our cultural decay.
I also don't understand why some blacks can be republican.
Gay republicans? You gotta be kidding.
Women? While I don't understand it, there is precedence in that many women stay with their abuser.
Poor people? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

Every applicant for the services I was offering was offered the opportunity to register, and quite a few did. At the time I was working with people who were truly down and out. Typically they were unemployed. Most had no post-secondary training. Many were disabled. Most were penniless... and so on. I would estimate that roughly 9 out of 10 of these people registered as Republicans. It was just incredible.

That is the natural republican party. Anyone else would be foolish to be a part of such a travesty.

You're forgetting, racist and homophobic too!

Some wake up. Many never do.

IT IS NOW AND ALWAYS WILL BE..... CLASS WARFARE

it shows itself as religon, race, gender, etc..... but AT THE TOP the fight has always been RICH VS POOR

and anyone who would BENEFIT from some WEALTH LEVELING and votes in the other direction----- HAS BEEN FOOLED

that a member of *any* minority group who votes for a right-wing Party is like a turkey who votes for a Christmas Party.

And a win in Texas.

Yes, Texas.

More than a third of American hispanics are registered as independents, and the remainder of that 42% are either politically inactive or only participate in local politics. Nationally, only 36% of Hispanics are registered Democrats, and 22% are registered Republicans.

Most of the Hispanics (predominantly Mexicans in this part of the country) that I know and are friends with are of the opinion that neither party really serves hispanic interests.

The Democratic Party has a strong hold on the east coast Hispanics, who are primarily of Caribbean origin and who overwhelmingly identify themselves as Democrats, but have failed to extend that to citizen Hispanics of Mexican and Central American origin, who are numerically the sizeable majority of hispanics in the U.S., and who are actually approaching population majorities in many parts of the west. Because they are less politically active, they don't receive as much attention from the party. I see that changing a lot in coming years.

That much is clear.

Expect an onslaught of natalist propaganda encouraging the base to pop out even more children (homeschooled, of course) in order to make up the shortfall by outbreeding the black and brown folks.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

The tea baggers have shown yet another part of the electorate the rotten, fetid and ultimately anti-human core of the modern GOP. May they soon command no more than the 20% of the vote that their extreme and hateful positions entitle them to.

There were actually latinos in the GOP? Big news to me, since the repukes are constantly claiming the latinos are "takin are uhmerican JOBS!".

Bush got 44% of Latinos in 2004, if you can believe that. This is an unmitigated disaster for the GOP. If Dems capture 75% or higher of the Latino vote on a regular basis, the Rs are fatally screwed at least on the presidential level.

Here's a way to tell if something is politically bad for the Rs. If you see Karl Rove advocating against it (as he did this law) even though the far right base wants it, then you KNOW it is politically bad.

and the appointment of the first Latina to the Supreme Court, Obama should do EVEN better in 2012, hell, Arizona may be in play for Democrats...Only reason Obama lost it in 08 was it was McCain's home state...

Sheriff Joe is running for Governor, so I would expect there to be a lot of intimidation, which is very sad

problem long before voting day. And, then again, there is the vote count. Voting machines?

In the 04 election we had a lawyer at almost every single voting precinct in our county. We, the local party, made that happen. Would love to see such initiatives throughout the country and especially some places, like Arizona.

Julie

In reading the details of this obscenity I've wondered how much it was aimed at facilitating vote caging and out and out voter suppression both of which the repcon wingnuts are fond of and good at.If swineboy Karl is even mildly opposed to this measure it's either an indication of just how bad it truly is or a tactic designed to deflect attention from the true aims of the legislation.

He has one of those funny-sounding non-American names.....

In my opinion the only people who should be republicans are the very rich as well as the very socially conservative. So since you can be very socially conservative and be black and hispanic I suppose it is possible to be black or hispanic and be a republican, especially if you are also very rich.

Personally though even if I was rich I would still take the larger view of society and as far as being socially conservative it seems to have a built in bias torwards WASPS, though this may change with the changing demographics of this country. That is why I see this Arizona law as a gift to us, please alienate any remaining minority groups in the republican party as whites will no longer be a majority very soon. This teabagger nonsense is the last desperate wail of a dying breed of priviledged white people who dont believe in sharing prosperity. And I am about as white as they come by the way.

those who are socially conservative control freaks.

I've met quite a number of wealthy people through my work. All of them were Democrats. People like Streisand and Speilberg are very wealthy, and they are Democrats. It's only the wealthy who are stingy who should be Republicans.


As far as that bit about they want to decide to whom to donate, too bad. First, I don't believe most of them donate voluntarily anywhere near as much as they would like you to believe. Second, you are a member of U.S. society. You are using a heck of a lot more of that society's resources and infrastructure than anyone else. You can pay your fair share of taxes so government can help the truly needy. And then, you can also buy tickets to your friend's pet charity ball.

Socially conservative? Hey, I'm relatively socially conservative, except that I believe in full human rights for all humans, including gays. Even if I didn't believe in it, though, I would not seek to impose my views on the rest of society.
I can live however I want without insisting that everyone else in the country has to live the way aspire to live.

I know of nothing in the Bible that requires anyone to insist that secular law reflect their personal interpretation of the bible (or their pastor's). The Bible requires YOU to obey, not to behave as though you were God, laying down law for others to follow and judging who is or is not righteous. To the contrary, the Bible is pretty clear that you should not put yourself in God's place in any way, including not judging others.

Maybe that's the Biblical principle what we SHOULD enshrine in secular law: Don't judge anyone but yourself.


So, all you humane, unstingy, un-control freak wealthy, you are most welcome in the Democratic Party. And so are all you religious folk who are not judgmental control freaks.

Socially conservative seems to be the nice new way of saying bigots. Those who want those who are different from them to be effectively eliminated from society. With gays, you bash them or put them in jail so they live in fear. And it's all in the pursuit of religion, which no one can question religious beliefs right? Even if my religious beliefs require me to persecute you. Same thing with sexism, mormons for instance. Having multiple wives if just the start, underage wives, serbservience of women and young men are also routinely sent out of this society becuase the older men dont want them around. All in the name of my cherished religious beliefs. Cant question my right to point guns in your face either right, because according to the constitution as interpreted by the right we are all in a militia. To put it mildly I hate and despise them.

They vote GOP because that party panders to them on social "wedge" issues, but the vast majority will surrender their economic best interest in the process. So essentially, the goals of enforced theocracy and institutionalized xenophobia appear are worth pursuing, provided they are willing to pay the price.

The gop is the master at getting poor people to vote against their own best intersts by using social wedge issues as well as by painting everything black and white. They feast on those who dont the what the real meaning of socialism is, presumably they think there is no difference between socialists and communists or fasicsts because the NAZI's and communists did after all call themselves socialists while at the same time acting in no way like socialists.

Throw in a corporate run media and conservative echo chamber and you can put out disinformation faster than anyone can correct it and the corrections are usually hidden in the back pages with the lies brazenly on the front page. To get hispanic and black people who are presumably poor(I tend to give a pass to all uber wealthy people who vote republican as being concerned only about their position of power)to vote with racist poor misled white people is a masterpiece of propaganda and fascist control of the media that Goebells himself would be astounded by. After all, he never even tried to get a significant proportion of the jew vote while at the same time making them the scapegoats. Some things defy description.

I seriously doubt white social conservatives are gonna change and become color blind any time soon. I've lived in the South and known some of these people. Myself being blue-eyed, lily-white, and rather soft-spoken they had no problem talking about how they really felt about Mexicans or Blacks or whomever. Racism there is alive and well, as I'm sure it is in every other deep red state or district, and anything you say to convince them of any other viewpoint is either immediately dismissed or strengthens their convictions regardless of facts, logic, or tact. There is no way they will accept minorities in your lifetime or mine. And even if some outgrow it, they'll flake off of the Republican Party like every other moderate has or was forced to do over the last two years. This is because Republicans don't have anything left but Jingoistic platitudes and dog whistle words hearkening to racial prejudice like: "illegal immigration" or "welfare state." I can see this mobilizing the base this Fall and who knows what kind of other Fascist shit they'll do by then. This, in turn, will discourage all the raving lunatics who were expecting to "take this country back" (I guess from... "them"). It seems now they're caught in a death spiral... the more moderates that leave, the less blunted or even obfuscated their rhetoric and policies become, and the less they'll tolerate people who don't have the same purist mindset. I'm not sure if this will see the GOP go the way of the Segregationist Party and replaced by the Libertarians, but I can dream.

About time these guys wised up.

If you recall, the 2000 GOP Convention was in Philly. If you also recall, one of the features of the convention was every night a different ethnic group would have their support for the Bush and the GOP highlighted. Hispanic night came, and George P. (Poppy's grandson) was the emcee, and young Hispanics were trotted on stage behind him during the speech.

I actually met the people in this group at the United States Hispanic Leadership Conference in Chicago in October 2000 (after the convention and before the election). A friend of mine was the Hispanic Student Services coordinator for the University of Texas at El Paso and was their chaperon on the trip. UTEP has an agreement with Juarez, just across the border, to let people attend college for about the same price as native-born Americans so there's a lot of border crossing going on. The group of students he brought were primarily from Juarez. This group of Juarez students were the ones on stage.

For some reason, the campaign for the much-beloved by Hispanics George W. Bush, couldn't find a Hispanic-American group to go up on stage to show support so they tricked this group by offering them a free trip to Philly to learn about the American political system. They didn't know anything was up until they were brought up on stage. They even showed me a newspaper photo of themselves on stage at the convention looking confusedly at each other.

I should also mention that the leader of the Black gospel group they brought up for African American support night was asked why he was supporting Bush, and he said he wasn't. He just wanted to get his group some national exposure.

TlalocW

among Latino voters and that turned out to be utter bs we when ran down the numbers.

Cuban Americans ran to the U.S. from Castro. Any whiff of Communism or Socialims is anathema to them. So is anything against the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. So, the lies that Democrats are Communists and Republicans are for self-reliance (for the middles and lower classes only, though) resonate with them. And, they've raised their kids and grandkids accordingly.

The same is true of any group that is obedient to the Catholic Church--and many Hispanics are.

African Americans who are obedient to their churches may well vote against Democrats who are pro-choice or pro equal rights for gays.

We have to find ways to reach and/or retain these people, not lull ourselves that the Republican Partty--which is going to be trying very hard to reach and/or retain them--can't possible appeal to them.

Basically, Republicans appeal to low info voters and to those who are easily brainwashed or easily pandered to. And that is what we must combat successfully. But, it's uphill, given the media.

loyalty to the GOP. While many disagree with equal rights for gays, most understand that the GOP is the party of the KKK today.

The exception is for some extremely old-line, middle class black families. More than a few have voted Republican since the days when the Democratic Party was, well, the party of the KKK in the south. Some have kept their GOP affiliation long after the party had decided to pursue its southern strategy.

And there are more than a few vets of all races who have bought into the lie that all Democrats hate the military.

maybe soon we can befriend Cuba--and learn from her successes. Or at least, end the stupidity.

First off, republicans seem hell-bent on their own destruction when it comes to non-whites. I'm not saying none of them vote for republicans, but everything the GOP has been doing for the past 10 years confirms to the casual observer that they want to be the party of white, old men.

The older generations of Cuban-Americans are still solidly in the republican camp, but that's changing with their grandkids and great-grandkids, who never knew what the old country was like. I'm not saying they're engorging the democrats' ranks, but they are more politically savvy and not as single-issue focused as Abuelo y Abuela.

As for Catholicism, there are varying degrees of "obedience" in the Hispanic/Latino communities just as there are in others. I'm a gringo who has had a lot of contact with Hispanic/Latino communities throughout my life for various reasons, and it took years for me to finally meet a Mexican-American woman who proudly told people she was a republican. The Arizona immigration law is now giving people like her pause and opening their eyes that republicans really don't want them.

I do agree though that we can't just sit on our haunches and assume that non-white = vote for democrats, but I also think we're coming into this "fight" from a position of power as democrats do tend to garner the majority of Black and Hispanic votes in elections. I'm not sure about other groups, but we've done a good job of getting and keeping them, and we need to continue.

TlalocW

Ever since Ronald Reagan and his visions of black welfare queens riding cadillacs the republicans have loudly proclaimed their racism. I will however state that there will always be a few black and latino republicans. Take media pundits for instance. A black person will always be valued by republicans at press conferences and again there are some black and latino people who are so rich or so against abortion that all other considerations will be secondary.

The problems emerged whenever the cameras switched from the carefully-arranged black & brown people on stage to the sea of tired, pasty-white faces in the auditorium proper.

That Black delegates and other attendees are often asked by the White attendees to get their bags, call them cabs, etc. when their paths cross in the hotel. For *some* reason, those guys haven't gotten the message that the GOP *isn't* just white people. :sarcasm:

TlalocW

Alienating the fastest growing part of the electorate is no way to win elections.

to go anywhere near the 21st Century Republicans.

I know it only anecdotal evidence, but every Log Cabin Repug I know... every one.... is rich and just wants to keep their money. Also, many young ones (from rich families) vote repug because they are in the closet to their families. It's part of the "I'm not gay" disguise.

amazed that the feelings of many rank and file Republicans toward them did not sink in long before the Arizona law. And, since it did not, I am also surprised that the Arizona law is doing the trick.

Party leaders who understand voting demographics will bend over backwards to minimize the importance of the Arizona law and try to pretend the problem is confined to that one state. Or that the law is a mistake, or something. But, the anti-minority, anti-immigrant hatred runs deep and wide.

This proves that the Republican Party's best friend is a low info voter. We really need better education campaigns.

they're just NOW figuring out the repuke party is racist? :rofl:

is an upper middle class Tex-Mex, and a Republican who thinks W will someday be recognised as a great president. I wonder if he is having second thoughts now - I hope so I want every possible voter voting for Democrats this year.


mark

reason all the Latino's I know don't like the Dem's.

How many Latinos do you know? And for that matter how many Democrats?I know of few that are anti-faith(whatever that is).I know many who believe the government is absolutely bound by the first amendment.For that matter I know quite a few Democrats who are faithful believers who attend church quite regularly.I'd say that any Latinos who've bought the wingnut line that because someone is against the worst excesses of religion and foursquare against any hint of establishment of religion is somehow anti-religion has bought the wingnut line like those who think wanting to regulate business to prevent the worst excesses of capitalism makes one anti-business or anti-capitalist.I'd suspect they're due for an awakening

The Dem Leadership gets this just fine. It is just that enough of the Dem supporters take an aggressive pro-atheist approach that it turns believers off. Leadership knows what red lines not to cross, party supporters do not.

In any case, it can't be worse than "whoever doesn't have the same beliefs as I have will be tortured for an infinite time, and deservedly so."

So, again, fuck that.

And if some idiot stops voting for a party's candidates because anonymous alleged sympathizers of that party on the Internet are rude, fuck that too.

People of faith don't care what opinion you have, they care what rights you plan on trying to take away from them because of those opinions.

Harbor whatever opinions you like, but if it involves crossing certain red lines legislatively that treads on their liberties to practice their faith as they wish, you've got a problem.

If you can't understand the nuance in that then you are the perfect example of what I am talking about. Thankfully the Dem Leadership understands those nuances perfectly and hence it isn't a "party" problem.

Take for example the results of this poll done on DU:

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8062717&mesg_id=8062717

This shows people here favor a change in law to remove the tax exempt status of religious organizations. By an overwhelming majority I might add. If so popular with Dem's, why don't you see any Dem lawmakers putting forward legislation on the matter? They know it is a red line not to be crossed and would be political destruction for them.

So back to the original point, Latino's. If their family comes here and looks to be active politically who they going to side with? The people looking to destroy their church, or the people who will leave it alone?

(BTW, I don't support any church, I just respect their right to be left alone. Guess I am a 14%'r)

considered in the light of real life.

First atheists get labeled as "anti-faith," then we are blamed for keeping out Group X from the party. This is just ridiculous, baseless, conjecture on your part. Can you PLEASE point to ONE aspect of the Democratic Party that is anti-faith, because all I ever see from the Dems is people bending over as far as they can to pleasure the religious.

Every Latino I asked in the past 3 minutes thinks so.

Seriously, when did this happen? Did I miss it? Because last I checked you had to be a fucking Christian to be President, and at the very least religious to be in Congress.

When did Democrats become anti-faith? Because Fox "News" said they were?

Ultimately that will be a stake through the heart of the Republican party which seems determined to commit party suicide. By the middle of this century the demographics of a white minority will be the death of the GOP. I would be a very old man, but maybe I will live to see it.

This could get ugly in more ways than one.

(and Latinos can be quite conservative), not one in a thousand is going to condone systematic police harassment of their relatives and themselves.

Republicans are really shooting themselves in the feet over this one.

My immediate family members are all American born Mexican Americans, with this generation totally removed from their hispanic roots thanks to their 'Americanization'. Some have, over the years, married 'illegal aliens' themselves and are completely blind to the danger their mates could soon face due to these draconian laws.

In my personal opinion, thanks mostly to mental laziness, almost all of them have gotten in the habit of listening to and mindlessly believing anything that spews out of Rush Limbaugh's filthy purulent lips, anything their churches try to sell them they buy, swallowing anything that will cement their false illusions of security.

They are CONVINCED that the American Way of Life is to always go with the flow and make no waves, which is why most of them all vote only Republican. They would support a Sarah palion presidency if it meant that they did not have to do any heavy thinking about politics.

I had to get the fuck away from these people or die.

I understand that some do because they have been duped into believing that Republicans are for "family values" and are "fiscally responsible". The years since Nixon and Reagan should have proven otherwise. And there are moderates and conservatives in the Democratic Party, so they cannot use that as an excuse.

"What's the Matter with Kansas," indeed. I will never fully understand.

If you vote republican, you have already LOST in the game.

i mean its hardly like the dems are unapologetic about their support for women, gays or minorites

What in the hell has the Republican Party aside from Lincoln's Republicans, ever done for minorities except to exploit them? The Southern Whites only backed the Democrats because they hated the Republicans for freeing the slaves until the Democrats backed Civil Rights Legislation and every Democrat was defeated within one election cycle. I can only shake my head when I see minorities, especially Blacks and Hispanics, supporting the very people who despise them. No, they don't just dislike them, they hate them. I grew up in the South and I know what the white racists have to say. Sadly some of them are my kin folks.

"Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger, ended up inside."

voting official: oh, you want to vote, huh?

Person of Latin descent: Um, yeah.

voting official: do you have your papers?

Person of Latin descent: to vote?

voting official: yeah, we have to make sure no illegals are voting.

Person of Latin descent: Oh for crying out loud...here!

voting official: I don't like your attitude.

Person of Latin descent: I am here to vote and an American citizen.

voting official: I'll be the judge of that!

Person of Latin descent: (underbreath) fucking nazi's.

voting official: what was that?

Person of Latin descent: nothing. May I please vote now?

voting official: no.

Person of Latin descent: Why not??

voting official: these papers look fake.

Person of Latin descent: What? Those are real, that's me!

voting official: you seem to be protesting a bit too much for me

voting official waves over the INS guard.

Person of Latin descent: what are you doing? I just want to vote!

voting official: yeah, you can vote. You can vote in your home country of Mexico!!! Get this illegal out of here!

INS guard hustles the person of Latin descent out.

voting official: yup. On the job, that's me. (smug grin)

American citizens get funny like that

but so many things have been done to us, in the past 10 years, that should have caused multiple riots, yet, none have appeared.

Whatever happens, there will be one of two endings: 1) cooler smarter heads will prevail and this half witted "law" will be repealed and life will go on or 2) things will get a lot worse in AZ. Taking the form of a true police state. which will also include massive public demonstrations.

At some point, some crazy ass cop hell bent on making a racist statement will open fire. At that point, all bets will be off.

I'm really tired of living during interesting times.

:shrug:

You gotta be joking!? What are these Latinos doing? Staying in the party till one of their own immediate family members is rounded up by the Arizona gestapo for walking around brown?

Or maybe their waiting for Missouri/Kansas/Ohio and many other states to pass Arizona style apartheid laws? Cause those efforts are underway right now.

This is as stupid as a blue collar worker voting republican. :eyes:

Single issue voters.

I clearly remember the two congressional FL Repubs during the Elian Gonzalez saga who got a lot of airtime against Clinton and Reno: Lincoln Diaz-Balart and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

The problem, and not just in these instances, is that one-issue voting can come back to bite one's ass one way or another.

If the subject of the OP is on board the Repub train for what he was suckered into believing was fiscal responsibility or the party of religion and family values, he's learning the downside now.

will vote republican.

They are already stuffed to the gills with the DLC/New Dems/Third Way Dems.

Makes perfect sense.

A Republican by any surname is still dumb. This one just seems to be waking up slightly.

We used to call that "Pocket morality". A form of morality exercised when one finds the efforts of others are costing him something personally. Hitting him in the pocket in other words.

So he changes his viewpoint not because of any altruistic urge but because his former beliefs were costing him something.

But as far as I can see, every single stupid person in America is a conservative. It's such a natural fit!

Namely the mostly white folks who are stupid enough still think Republicans are good for the economy and those who profit off of them.