Vet faces eviction for displaying flag

Source: AP

A couple in Oshkosh, Wis., are being threatened with eviction for flying an American flag in their dining room window.

Dawn and Charlie Price have been told by their apartment's management company to take down the flag or be evicted.

Charlie Price is a veteran who served tours in Kosovo and Iraq, and Dawn Price says the flag honors her husband's military service.

Midwest Realty Management says it bans flags and banners to maintain a consistent living environment for all residents.

Read more: http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/2324122,CST-NWS-noflag27.article

They could hang it on their living room wall in honor of his service! I am thinking that he read the "rules" when he signed the rental contract.

and if someone flew another country's flag etc they would complain. The apartment complex is correct is keeping down trouble.

Hang it on your wall to honor your service

about this couple's right to fly their American flag in America, the company has responded in a way that shows it has more sense than the unfortunate early responders.

"Notice
We are pleased to announce that we have come to a mutual agreement with the Prices that allows them to keep their American flag.

We would like to apologize to the Prices and to all American veterans. It was never our intention to hurt the Prices or disrespect what Mr. Price and all veterans have sacrificed for each and every one of us.

We have learned from this situation and will be revising our policy to allow our residents to honor America and display the American flag in a manner similar to the Prices.

Again we apologize to the Prices and anyone else who was offended by our actions. It is our sincere hope that our apology will be accepted and the changes we are making will be beneficial to our company and our residents.
"

http://www.midwestrents.com/

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Iranian?

Maybe Israeli?

How about NLF ?




Maybe this one?

pick the named country of choice, and you will find your right to fly that country's flag in that country well supported. Have a nice flight.

This must be yours

we value the right to display the symbols one chooses.

as they show the rest of the world just how crudely nationalistic and enthocentric many Americans have become.

Once they recognize that fact, it helps to explain a lot, and keeps me from having to answer what then become pretty silly questions.

A friend of mine went over there on a holiday and said everywhere she turned there were American flags. I really don't understand the sense of emasculation some folk seem to have the second they find out they can't stick up a flag wherever they want. Are they afraid that if they're not waving a flag 24hrs a day they'll be accused of being unamerican terrorists and deported? Or they'll forget what nationality they are if they haven't got some bigarse flag unfurling around them?

As you'd be aware, the use of the Australian flag during the Cronulla riots and later by bogan tradies in hotted up utes (I see the flag as an early warning sign that they're going to drive like a complete lunatic and I steer clear) made it a symbol loved by the anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-anything-but-white-people brigade. I just don't do any flags at all, and I'm used to our flag being tastefully in the background of my life, and the only interest I've really taken in my own flag is at work when the flag gets put to half-mast and I get really productive tracking down which person I've never heard of before has died...

First of all, I agree wholeheartedly with your post and would like to elaborate a bit.

I was born and raised in Germany, married an American and am a naturalized U.S. citizen.

And here is where I'm veering off topic: What bothers me so terribly at times is the casual use of the term "Nazi" here on DU. As in "Oh, I'm just a grammar and spelling Nazi". It belittles the suffering, death and untold misery that particular regime caused millions of people. It bothers me terribly and I really needed to get this off my chest.

Back on topic: Nazis flew their flag. Swastikas everywhere, flag waving was inescapable.

Perhaps it is because of Germany's history and because of the symbolism a flag carries that flying one - never mind which country's it is - doesn't rank high on my list of priorities. On the contrary, whenever I see rah-rah flag waving, it makes me ill at ease.

Then again, I feel that whoever wants to display one should be free to do so. But like I said in another post on this thread - will this be restricted to the American flag, simply because it is in America? Will recent arrivals who still have love for their country of origin be prohibited from showing it in this particular housing complex, while Mr. Price - as a veteran - can display his?

More questions than answers, I'm afraid.

Do you endorse his flying a Confederate flag, then?

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What one may see simplistically as hate, another may validly see as the consistent application of an concept.

Yes, you're a democrat, all right.


:eyes:

Why don't you enjoy this until she returns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvRQyRdVEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9D3epQL704&feature=related

don't fret about the words that have more than 4 letters

I mean, logically, there are reasons to have this rule. However, if I were these people I would move.

Most likely the management's issue is with people potentially flying foreign flags so they ban all flags to make it as painless as possible for them.

I have to be honest (and I know I sound like a Tea Bagger here): I would not have a problem with them allowing only American flags (of course it would be a terrible business decision). But, if they were to do that, I would not be against it. We're in America. If you are offended or uncomfortable by the American flag in someone's window, you picked the wrong place to live in.

that if you're offended or uncomfortable by seeing ANY country's flag in someone's window, you picked the wrong place to live in.

Although I say "Good for the Price family" - the decision of the management folks could open up a big can of worms there.

Is only the American flag okay? And is it only okay if someone is a veteran like Mr. Price?

The reglementation in some apartment complexes and subdivisions leaves me stunned. So little room for individuality, not only concerning this particular flag issue... It seems there are so many places where some association wields a giant cookie cutter and makes sure everything is bland, uniform... I don't think I'd be able to feel at home or at ease there. Always worrying if whatever I'm doing may cause offense. Having to memorize someone else's rules *to live by*.

display the flag on their own property. I'm glad the the apartment owners agreed. I show the flag from a window in my house year-round.:patriot: Dana ; )

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Where is this "hate" routine in the Democratic platform? Or (and I find this much more likely), one individual's (or even a group of individual's) personal opinions about A or B is simply not predicated on a national platform of either party, but rather predicated on who they are as people...

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I would have expeted one of our military men to abide by rules had these not been reevaluated, however.

In the townhouse complex where I live, I had an issue a couple years back with my flag. The new complex owners didn't like it up there and used an "Overhangs" clause (Meaning we couldn't put anything out that hung past the eaves). I removed the pole and re-hung inside the eaves space and they had to drop the complaint.
I'll bet this guys's complex was similar; in the article it says the flag was in the dining room window, probably inside the home. Somebody probably reacted too quickly and when the rules were reviewed probably realized that the couple weren't actually in violation.

I could be massively wrong, but I bet something along those lines happened.

If not, there would be satellite dishes on every wall and drying clothes hanging over the banisters and flags of every country and sport teams everywhere. When you get that many people in one building you get a lot of personalities. The people are great but you got to have rules for the exterior.

Federal law preempts most restrictions on individuals installing satellite dishes, including individuals in apartment buildings (provided that the dish is installed inside the rental unit or on outdoor areas that are part of the tenant's leased space and which are under the exclusive use or control of the tenant. Typically, for apartments, these areas include balconies, balcony railings, and terraces.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html#QA


Sure, if a dish was intalled on a wall outside the exclusive control of the renter, you could do something about it. And if the flag in this case had been installed not in the window of the renter's unit but in a common area, I would have no problem with management requiring them to take it down.

You said I could do little about it, but than you said,

"Sure, if a dish was intalled on a wall outside the exclusive control of the renter, you could do something about it. "

Er... exactly.

You aragued that if these folks were allowed to have a flag in their window, then there could be flags, satellite dishes etc all over the place. But that's a non-sequitur argument. You can have a rule that allows people to put something in their window or balcony (like the rule allowing renters to put satellite dishes in their windows or on their balconies), without having to allow stuff to be hung in other areas that aren't under their control.

I don't think I argued what you think I did. I said, "you got to have rules for the exterior." Key word "exterior", meaning outside of the tenants control.

Balconies are "exterior". But the law defines them as within the renter's control so, for instance, a satellite dish installed on a balcony railing is protected. The flag in the situation that started this discussion was "in the dining room window" which certainly doesn't sound very "exterior"

Always going on about "honor."

I bemoan the attempt to confer "super" citizenship rights upon veterans. Rules are rules. Laws are laws. Contracts are contracts.

They can always move.

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constitutional right to fly the flag. As speech, it falls under "Congress shall make no law..." In this case, it doesn't seem like any government agency was involved, much less Congress. Although I find rules of this type un-American in spirit and would never choose to live in a place with these rules, if you move to a place like that you need to be aware of the way people living there choose to live and abide by it. And certainly there should be no "American Flag exception." Although, as private owners, they can make any rules they want as long as they don't breach any local, state or federal laws.

Not a word in the Constitution about what apt management companies can put in contracts that people freely choose to sign.

Business contracts do not supersede the laws of the state or the laws of the country. You cannot, by signing a contract, forfeit rights guaranteed by the state or the Constitution.

I can't speak to the specifics of this case, but a contract is not an end-all be-all, 100% completely binding document.

The Constitution prevents the government from infringing on your rights, not private parties.

Private property owners have complete latitude to restrict speech on their property, as they see fit.

The Civil Rights Act was necessary to prevent apartheid in the South, and it was justified through the Commerce Clause.

has to be put into quotation marks.

I'm grateful not to be one of them.

I am really tired of people thinking that veterans deserve special treatment.

the rules apply to everyone.

don't like the rules, move.

the clarity of the language. I'd expect it to change soon. Still, as I mentioned upthread, the complex very likely realized that since the flag was inside the home, they couldn't do anything except save face.

but that I as a non-military person honor their service (something I don't have the guts to do) by understanding that their spirit of patriotism extends to flying the flag (or burning it) or displaying their service decorations (or throwing them away). For me it's about empathy, I think that's why I'm a liberal/progressive, I believe in love and understanding. I also think that people should be able to air dry their laundry from an apartment balcony. Just my two cents. Dana ; )

You're the guy with the wet t-shirt that keeps dripping on my head? I got my eye on you, bubba......

:rofl:

Sorry about that, I'll run the spin cycle twice next time. :hi: Dana ; )

your avatar threw me off and I didn't realize you were not a man! Still, I got my EYE on you BUBBETTE!!!!

When the new owners or my townhouse complex came after my flag they used a lease clause about "Overhangs" because my pole stuck out. I repositioned the flag and they had no other way to force me to take it down. This couple's lease might possibly not have specifically mentioned the flag either.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

did I?

:rofl:

... wink, wink ... nudge, nudge.

Just going on the basis provided by the OP and article.

:hi:

If instead of a flag, they were displaying in their window a flag-sized banner saying "Out of Iraq and Afghanistan Now" or "Vote Democratic", and the management company objected, would you be saying "rules are rules"?

Be honest.

As long as the apartments are banning *all displays* it's not an issue of what is being displayed.

My mom lives in condos that require you to have a certain color AND FABRIC window coverings and you are not allowed to display anything else in the windows. Is that unpatriotic??

The neat thing about "rules are rules" is that people are much more likely to spout that line when it involves someone getting in trouble for something they dislike.

The unfortunate truth is that the better the complex, the more rules they have and the more the rules are enforced. Let every tenant slap their favorite flag up on an exterior window, and the place starts to look less than neat.

Landlords like tenants who pay top dollar, who care for the property, and who help keep the values for rental up. When a tenant likes to hang any kind of crap in the windows, they alter the exterior presentation of the building. Rules against it are standard in good apartment complexes.

This isn't a flag issue. It's not a free speech issue. It's an apartment contract issue. They'll regret making this exception, because now everyone will want to hang up their Confederate flag, and so on.

is apparently in the eye of the beholder, as I consider rules of this nature to be "worse" and completely unacceptable. However, you are right about the issue here. Free speech does not apply. I wish people would get it through their heads that the 1st Amendment applies only to government, not to private property owners and such who pay good money to maintain homogenity and don't want various freaks, coloreds, and assorted third worlders mucking up the neighborhood with evidence that they aren't rich, white, and practicers of whatever the current groupthink with respect to what acceptable outside ornamentation is. And yeah, with this exception, there goes the neighborhood.

Fewer residents per apartment, better amenities, better pools, better parking, safer areas, better lighting, better landscaping, better work out facilities, newer construction, better air conditioning, fewer rats and cockroaches, cleaner, better maintained, and more in demand.

There is no shortage of apartment complexes that allow anyone to hang anything from their window. Anyone who likes that kind of complex can easily find one. They need not move into a better complex and try to convert it to one that is not.

When tenants move into an apartment complex, part of what they're buying is what they're seeing. If they see a complex with flags on all the windows, they choose to live among those. But if they see a complex where such flags or window coverings are not allowed, that's part of what they're buying. People who want to hang their flags should move to complexes where that is acceptable. Most tenants don't want any kind of flag wavers around them. Flags serve no purpose, other than to delude those who wave them.

Other than the "better" part. I'm from the live and let live era. Rules make me tense (and these days, raise my blood pressure.)

But I'm not one of the people who thinks I have a right to do anything I want on property I'm renting. If one likes an eclectic apartment complex, one can find that apartment complex. If one wants an apartment complex with rigidly enforced rules, they can find that. Bohemians don't choose to live in the latter, so they don't give up anything because complexes with more rigid rules exist.

What an apartment complex allows is up to the owner of the complex, within the confines of state, local and federal laws. Tenants agree to the owner's terms, and the rest is contract/property law.

The rules exist to stop the guy who will hammer at 3 am, who will keep five dogs in his apartment, who will have a car in the parking lot sitting on cinder blocks, who will play music too loud and too late, who will yell too much, trash too much up, abuse apartment assets, and generally be a pain in the ass.

For those who crave more freedom, co-ops offer a great way to be a master of one's own domain.