Nato helicopter shot down in Helmand in Afghanistan

Source: BBC News

Four Nato personnel have been killed after their helicopter was shot down in Helmand province in southern Afghanistan, Nato says.

The aircraft was hit by "hostile fire", said Nato, without revealing the nationalities of those killed.

The helicopter crashed in the Sangin district, said provincial government spokesman Dawood Ahmadi.

The Taliban said its fighters had shot down the helicopter with a rocket-propelled grenade.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/10274262.stm

6-800 meters, it works well.

And that is to be expected as this shit drags on...
Knee deep in the big muddy and the old fools say push on.

They got the Number Three. On to the Number Two. And then.....

just sayin'

All three conquered Afghanistan, and then promptly left. The sole purpose of their conquest was to provide a path for their Army to someplace else. In the Case of Cyrus and Alexander it was to go from Persia to Pakistan and avoiding the Baluchistan desert (in the case of Alexander, when he pulled out of Pakistan he lost more men in the retreat across the Baluchistan desert then he had lost in his battles that is how unfriendly the Baluchistan desert is to moving large bodies of men on foot and why most people avoid it). In the case of Genghis it was go his way to Persia after taking what is now referred to as the Former Central Asia Soviet Republics.

The US could have done the same, go in overthrow the Taliban and then pull right back out. A quick surgical strike and what ever mess it left would be left to the Afghans to clean up. We could still be looking for bin Laden, but using only special forces in a Country, which by now would have been back under Taliban rule but out fearless leaders were to afraid to admit that was the best option, they instead decided to stay. It is this later war the US is losing and other countries have lost when it was attempted in the past.

The attack on the Khwarzmshah, Abbasids, and Nizari Ismailis ("Assassins") was by Hulagu Khan, under the order first of his brother Great Khan Mongke, later Kublai and then Batu. Not terribly relevant to your point, which is still imminently valid, but pesky details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Khwarezmia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezmid_Empire

The war with Khwarezmid (Modern Day Persia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan) was 1219-1222. Genghis died in 1227. Thus the war against that empire was lead by Genghis. Now, Genghis was also at war with China at the same time, but the Shah of the Khwarezmid not only killed an ambassador, he did it at least three times. That was unacceptable to Genghis so he attacked and destroyed that empire. After the destruction of that Empire, Genghis marched his army home, 1/2 half through Armenian and the Caucasus Mountains, the other via Afghanistan. The trip was solely to get the troops back to China to continue that war.

Now the base of the Khwarezmid had always been Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan and Persia. Thus the attack by Genghis never hit Persia itself, and thus the final conquest of Persia did not take place will 1229 under Genghis's successor (Who then could no longer tolerate the attempts by the former ruling family of the Khwarezmid to re-establish that empire in Persia).

Genghis just viewed the Shah of Khwarezmid as an ignorant savaged who killed Ambassadors and once he was killed and the plains of Central Asia part of the Mongol Empire all the fine. The Mongols soon realized the they had taken on part of what is called "Greater Persia". "Greater Persia" is an area that is centered on the Iranian plateau but have had more or less one culture for the last 2500 years. It is NOT an ethnic concept (Through Iranians are in most of the area of Greater Persia, but Turkish is a very strong second), it is NOT language in origin (The language of the Turks and Persians are in two different languages groups, with the Persian being an Indo-European language, while Turkish being in the "Turkic" family). It is not religious, but the area has tended to have just one religion (Zoroastrianism before the Arab Conquest, Islam after the Arab Conquest).

The problem for the Mongols was that once in "Greater Iran" (Another name for "Greater Persia") the fact that people view themselves as one people, even if different ethnic and language groups, meant you had to control all of "Greater Iran" or none of it (Or live with a high tension situation, as is the case today in Central Asia).

Afghanistan is a border area between the what is now called Central Asia, India and Greater Persis and as such a way to get from one area to the another, but not a place you want to stay. Thus Genghis Khan went through Afghanistan on his way back to China. After the Mongols took Central Asia, the Mongols found themselves in "Greater Persia", and then only part of it. Something had to be done, but it took a back burners to the Wars in China and Russia.

Thus my statement Genghis Khan and Afghanistan. He did attack "Greater Persia" (His attack was aimed at Central Asia more then Iran itself) but it was NOT the intentions Genghis to do so, but he felt his hands were forced. Once the Khwarezmid empire was destroyed Genghis returned to China the best way possible, Afghanistan and "Greater Iran" became a back water for the Mongols, but it was a back water that quickly gained the Mongols attentions do to the continuing efforts of the Khwarezmid dynasty to re-establish that empire and to stop such maneuvering lead to a slow conquest of Persia itself and then a massive effort to take Baghdad in 1258 AD.

Just pointing out we may be both right, Genghis did attack "Greater Persia" and on his way back from that attack hit Afghanistan. On the other hand most of the Conquest of Persia itself was left to his sons.

Side Note: "Greater Iran" still exists. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and even Afghanistan is considered part of "Greater Iran" (As is the eastern part of Iraq). Now the Russian Czars slowly moved into Central Asia making Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan part of the Russian Empire (Something that lead all of them to be part of the Soviet Union also). Russian viewed this as unstable so before and during WWII the Russians made moves into Iran (Which is one of the reason for post WWII US intervention in Persia in addition to Turkey and Greece). The US considered Iran an important part of the containment of the Soviet Union, given the influence Iran had in the Central Asia. The Communists had their concerns and a growth in such influence in the 1970s lead to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan (to prevent increased Iranian influence via Afghanistan to the Central Asia Republics.

Greater Iran is NOT as strong as it was before the raise of the Industrial West, but it has been getting stronger. It is NOT a united front, Afghanistan, for example, is heavily Sunni Moslem, Iran itself is overwhelmingly Shiite. How much of this religious split is genuine and how much is a product of Czarist/Communist efforts is unknown for both the Czars and the Communists prefer Sunni Islam.

Sunni Islam is preferred by dictators, for one of its chief characteristics is that the religious leaders are picked by the political leadership, a concept rejected by Shiite Islam. Thus Sunni is preferred when Political leaders what to pick the religious leaders and that is the case with the present dictatorships in most of Central Asia, and thus most are technically Sunni. How much of that is true is unknown and unknowable.
This is further complicated by the fact Shiites have been a discriminated minority within Islam since almost the beginning of Islam, and as such find it NOT a dishonor to hide the fact they are Shiites. Thus it is common for Shiites to pass themselves off as Sunnis (Or some other religion when a State is using religion to discriminate against them).

Though I would largely classify Chinghis' actions as a 'raid' compared to the scorched earth that Hulagu embarked upon. However, all original points are still completely valid and our elaborations should be an interesting pursuit for anybody who cares about this subject.