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Ed Barrow Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:09 PM
Original message
Farrakhan charges Jews with 'anti-black' behavior
Source: Associated Press

Nation of Islam Minister Louis Farrakhan has written the leaders of more than a dozen major U.S. Jewish groups and denominations seeking "repair of my people from the damage" he claims Jews have caused blacks for centuries.

Farrakhan sent the letter along with two books from the Nation of Islam Historical Research Team that the 77-year-old minister said prove "an undeniable record of Jewish Anti-Black behavior," starting with the slave trade and Jim Crow laws.

"We could charge you with being the most deceitful so-called friend, while your history with us shows you have been our worst enemy," he wrote.

...

The Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group which distributed copies of the letter, said in a statement Tuesday that Farrakhan's "anti-Semitism is obsessive, diabolical and unrestrained. He has opened a new chapter in his ministry where scapegoating Jews is not just part of a message, but the message."



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5it2UwjQVcXhBUIkeXDtbmn7UuVhAD9GL93983
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh fuck him
He's done so much to damage black-Jewish relations in this country, which BTW, complicates progressive goals in the long-run.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. What?
Edited on Tue Jun-29-10 10:21 PM by Mickeyc1004


"He's done so much to damage black-Jewish relations in this country"

He's one man with an opinion. If one man regardless of race can sway a person's opinion of a whole race then neither side is objective.


I have zero religion, I'm an Atheist and most blacks are Christians so I fail to see how anything that man would say would have any effect on black-Jewish relations.



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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. he has a huge following. his words echo all around the
south side of chicago. with some people it sinks in in exactly the same way rush limbaugh's words sink in with his followers.
hope we will soon completely turn the page on this sort of ignorance and hate.

btw, he claims to have been battered as a child. this is what beating children leads to, imho.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yet Rush Limbaugh does not represent all white people
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 08:45 PM by Mickeyc1004
As such, I wouldn't dream of saying, "Rush Limbaugh has damaged the relationship between Caucasian Americans and African Americans."

Rush is a kook, he represents only himself(1 white person) His views don't influence how African Americans feel about other Caucasian Americans.


Talk about the individual man, but it really is insulting to imply that African Americans are influenced by any single voice in the African American community and not objective any way to imply that that voice represents a whole group.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Actually you just convinced me that Farrakhan has damaged relations
because Rush certainly has.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. With who?
I don't know any black person who would say that period.


It isn't objective to lump people in a group because of race.


Some whites are influenced by Rush which hardly has an influence on anything over all. Didn't have an influence on the last election.

Many of those people already had certain views, they were just looking for validation which Rush delivers.

He just preaches to the choir.


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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. with is followers
regardless of race.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I would agree with that.


However, only a small percentage of African Americans are followers of Farrakhan. Most African American Christians I know distrust Farrakhan's religion.

Therefore, what I'm saying is Farrakhan has no influence over African American vs Jewish relationships with exception to some of his followers.

I say some because my Black Muslim friends never expressed having any problems with Jewish people.

I've never heard a group of my African American Christian friends and associates ever praising or even talk about Farrakhan.

Credo $$ maybe, Farrakhan no.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. well, you should see how many people come out on
founder's day.
you may not know anyone who thinks anything about him, but i live in the same city with him, and i can tell you he has influence here, as does the nation of islam.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Which means nothing as far as black-Jewish relationship as a whole
Edited on Wed Jun-30-10 10:27 PM by Mickeyc1004
Followers of any number of talking heads or religious fundamentalist show support regardless of religion.

I've been black all my life and I've even stayed in Chicago and I'm from the mid west. and He does not have influence on African Americans as a whole period.


Believe it or not, most African Americans don't obsess over a particular group of people regardless of what the perception of those on the outside looking in think.


If anything African Americans have a problem when other people who are not African American try to tell them how they feel or who they support.



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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Suck my cock, Louie.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought he died
I guess emptying the bowels is one of the last acts
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Same here...
I really had the idea he was already gone. I guess he is not going to go away quietly.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. There's always a market for race and ethnic haters
The more outrageous the lies, the more his followers believe them.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hardly surprising.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. ahistorical - but not unusual from this piece of shit n/t
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow, what a surprise. And the KKK still does not like black folks
what a moron this guy is and double the moron who follows his teaching.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fuck him!
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Never met anyone Jewish who didn't like black people

But I've met LOTS of black muslims that truly hated jews. My one co worker who is a liberal person in every other way shocked me by saying "Hitler was right about those people"

I've never got the whole anti semetetic black muslim thing. I mean I don't think the Koran says to hate Jews or anything. I can partially understand how a muslim from the middle east might not like Israel over the whole middle east political struggle but I've never understood the anti semitism of US born black muslims.
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Mickeyc1004 Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. I'm the last person to defend religion.


As I'm an Atheist and subscribe to none. However, first I don't know many black Muslims, most African Americans are Christians.

Second the few I do know, do not hate Jews. In fact, I've never heard them mention Jews. I'd say most black people who are Christians might have more of a distaste for Black Atheist and to an extent Muslims more than anything else which is just my personal experience.


Also, the black Christians I know don't generally like the Muslim religion at all and I would say there is some prejudice against the Muslim religion in the black community.
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Well that's encouraging.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I'd say there's quite a few of both...
I would say that the white communities who hated the blacks most were the communities that historically lived in greatest proximity to them. That is to say mainly Irish, Italian and Jewish migrants that lived near blacks and competed with them for resources.

By contrast, American abolitionists tended to be WASPs. They did not live near blacks, and of course did not stand to suffer if large numbers of freed blacks moved to the North because they did not have to compete with them for either jobs or resources. Indeed they stood to benefit from the additional labour pool.

A look at the list of abolitionists on Wikipedia seems to feature mainly Waspy names:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_abolitionists

Norman Podhoretz also wrote an influential essay on this topic:-

http://www.lukeford.net/Images/photos/out.pdf

Nowadays, the old Irish and Jewish working class communities no longer exist (and thus the anti-black sentiment in those communities has gone the same way) but the Italian working classes still do in Jersey and New York. Racism against blacks in that quarter is still fairly strong by my reckoning.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Jewish abolitionists, and Jewish founders of NAACP
From here:

Let me briefly tell you about three Jewish abolitionists. One was a woman, Ernestine Rose. The daughter of a Polish rabbi, she was called “queen of the platforms” because of her speeches in favor of abolition. Already a rebel in her family from the age of 5, she ran away from an arranged marriage, recouping the money from her dowry. She supported herself selling room deodorizers, this in the 19th century, meeting personally with the Prussian King, and traveling to Belgium, Holland, France and England. When she eventually married a fellow radical of her own choosing, she and her husband came to America, and Ernestine Rose took on the anti-slavery cause. Following the Civil War, Ernestine Rose remained an activist and is often remembered for her work for women’s rights, particularly the right to vote and the right to own property.

Another interesting Jewish abolitionist was August Bondi. Bondi had been a member of the revolutionary student movement in Vienna before fleeing to America following the unsuccessful revolution of 1848. He settled in Kansas and became active in the Free State movement. As you may recall, the Kansas Nebraska Act of 1854 decreed that in 1855 the settlers in Kansas would decide by vote whether Kansas would be free or slave. We may think that our upcoming election is hotly contested and polarized, but its nothing compared to that election. Pro-slavery and anti-slavery proponents poured into the state. It seemed as if the anti-slavery faction had the numbers to win the vote, but on election day, 5,000 heavily armed pro-slavery Missourians poured into the territory, overwhelmed the polling stations and took the ballot boxes, with the result that a pro-slavery legislature was elected. Disgusted by what he saw happening, August Bondi joined John Brown in his raid on the Border Ruffians in 1856. Bondi was in the company of two other Jewish men at that time and his letters recounting his experiences recall them speaking in German and Yiddish. He writes: “ Nu, sie jetzt,” his compatriot Theodore Weiner said, “ how are you doing,” and I responded “sof odom muves, the end of man is death, meaning, we’re doomed.” Actually the three of them survived the battle, and Bondi continued to support the anti-slavery cause. He enlisted in the Civil War and served in the Kansas cavalry. After the civil war he remained in Kansas serving in local government, on the school board, as a judge, and as the local postmaster. He took his daughter to neighboring Leavenworth where there was a rabbi, when she got married, and a rabbi from Kansas City came to his home town of Salina to bury him when he died.

Finally, if one wants to talk about Jewish social activism before the Civil War, one must mention the famous story of Rabbi David Einhorn. Rabbi Einhorn was an early German Reformer. His positions were too radical for the congregations in Bavaria and when he took a post in Hungary, the government closed his congregation down. Einhorn came to America in 1847 and remained uncompromising in his approach. He opposed the philosophy of Rabbi Isaac Meyer Wise, who at the time was attempting to unify the American Jewish community. Einhorn did not believe in compromise for the sake of good relations. Never one to mince words, Einhorn was very outspoken in his sermons against slavery, causing problems for his congregation Har Sinai in Baltimore, Maryland, a slave state. The story is told that in 1861 a mob threatened to tar and feather him, and so he was forced to flee north to Philadelphia. You should know, though, that there are those who feel that the lay leaders of the congregation were actually relieved that the mob provided them with an excuse to get rid of their difficult and demanding leader.


From here:

Early Jewish-American co-founders included Julius Rosenwald, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G. Hirsch and Wise.


Tucker
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I don't deny that there were abolitionists in other groups...
but it has to be admitted that abolitionism was mainly a movement that arose out of dissenting Protestant sects (particularly the Anabaptist sects such as the Quakers).

Of course, the fiercest supporters of slavery were Southern planters, who were by and large Protestants as well, so I am not giving Protestants a free pass, simply telling it like it was.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. Everything at that time arose mainly from Protestant sects, as they were most powerful economically
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Jews figured prominently in the civil rights movement
something you seem to have missed in your historical quests.

Here's a little info for you.

American Jewish community and the Civil Rights movement

Many in the Jewish-American community supported the Civil Rights Movement. In fact, statistically Jews were one of the most actively involved non-black groups in the Movement. Many Jewish students worked in concert with African Americans for CORE, SCLC, and SNCC as full-time organizers and summer volunteers during the Civil Rights era. Jews made up roughly half of the white northern volunteers involved in the 1964 Mississippi Freedom Summer project and approximately half of the civil rights attorneys active in the South during the 1960s.<60>

Jewish leaders were arrested while heeding a call from Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in St. Augustine, Florida, in June 1964, where the largest mass arrest of rabbis in American history took place at the Monson Motor Lodge—a nationally important civil rights landmark that was demolished in 2003 so that a Hilton Hotel could be built on the site. Abraham Joshua Heschel, a writer, rabbi and professor of theology at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America in New York was outspoken on the subject of civil rights. He marched arm-in-arm with Dr. King in the 1965 March on Selma.

Brandeis University, the only nonsectarian Jewish-sponsored college university in the world, created the Transitional Year Program (TYP)in 1968, in part response to Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination. The faculty created it to renew the University's commitment to social justice. Recognizing Brandeis as a university with a commitment to academic excellence, these faculty members created a chance to disadvantaged students to participate in an empowering educational experience.

The program began by admitting 20 black males. As it developed, two groups have been given chances. The first group consists of students whose secondary schooling experiences and/or home communities may have lacked the resources to foster adequate preparation for success at elite colleges like Brandeis. For example, their high schools do not offer AP or honors courses nor high quality laboratory experiences. Students selected had to have excelled in the curricula offered by their schools.

The second group of students includes those whose life circumstances have created formidable challenges that required focus, energy, and skills that otherwise would have been devoted to academic pursuits. Some have served as heads of their households, others have worked full-time while attending high school full-time, and others have shown leadership in other ways.

The American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress, and Anti-Defamation League actively promoted civil rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Civil_Rights_Movement_%281955%E2%80%931968%29#American_Jewish_community_and_the_Civil_Rights_movement

On June 21, 1964, three civil rights workers disappeared. James Chaney, a young black Mississippian and plasterer's apprentice; and two Jewish activists, Andrew Goodman, a Queens College anthropology student; and Michael Schwerner, a CORE organizer from Manhattan's Lower East Side, were found weeks later, murdered by conspirators who turned out to be local members of the Klan, some of them members of the Neshoba County sheriff's department. This outraged the public leading the U.S. Justice Department along with the FBI (the latter which had previously avoided dealing with the issue of segregation and persecution of blacks) to take action. The outrage over these murders helped lead to the passage of the Civil Rights Act. (See Mississippi civil rights workers murders for details).
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Indeed they did...
by that time, younger Jews had largely come to occupy the same socio-economic stratum as the old WASPs - that is to say, they were largely affluent, middle-class professionals. Most of the Jewish people who hold anti-black views - Jackie Mason and Norman Podhoretz come to mind - are from the older generation who grew up on the lower east side, Brooklyn, etc.

To be honest, Im not sure you really got the point of my post.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. The Freedom Riders are in their sixties and older now, and most were not affluent at all
Farrakhan is not charging Jews with being insufficiently represented among abolitionists or saying that some older Jews are racists. He is saying that Jews, *as a whole*, *currently* are anti-black...which is certainly ridiculous now and has been since at least the 1950s.

I have provided substantial counterexamples, which seem to have been dismissed as mere occasional aberrations rather than as evidence of a general trend or a representative sampling of a significant anti-racist Jewish population. I have to wonder why--have you known an unusual number of racist Jews? Or simply not known any non-racist Jews?

Tucker
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. A strange post...
"Farrakhan is not charging Jews with being insufficiently represented among abolitionists or saying that some older Jews are racists."

Didnt say that he was.

"I have provided substantial counterexamples, which seem to have been dismissed as mere occasional aberrations rather than as evidence of a general trend or a representative sampling of a significant anti-racist Jewish population."

I didn't make any such contention.

I have to wonder why--have you known an unusual number of racist Jews? Or simply not known any non-racist Jews?

I was mainly responding to the poster above, who made the contention that black people were anti-Jewish but that the converse was not true.

My point was, mainly, to the extent that that was true it was largely so because Jewish people were now overwhelmingly numbered amongst the affluent middle class and even when middle class people are racist, they tend not to articulate it. Indeed much of the stigma of racism lies in the fact that it is associated with having a low socioeconomic status. This is easily seen on message boards such as this one when posters are accused of being sister-shagging inbred residents of trailer parks whenever such opinions are expressed.

Of course, working class people have to compete with one another more, and often new migrant populations face the most outright hostility from the last wave of migrants that they are trying to displace. The most bitter ethnic conflicts in the city where I live are between Samoans and Lebanese Muslims. White people don't really have a dog in the fight.

If Jewish people were numbered amongst the working class to the same extent that Black people are, I have no doubt that they would be just as openly racist.







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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. There's something about anti-semitism --it's always out there somewhere
:shrug:
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. It's also always in here somewhere.
Sadly.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
44. You've obviously never read the Qu'ran.

It is more a poem than prose. The following gets the gist of it...

I love God.
God loves me.
We're a happy family.
With a hug and kiss,
Here from me to you.
And while you're at it,
Kill a Jew.


Actually, I never read anything about "killing" Jews. Instead, they are the Muslim's bad brother who must be controlled.

Time and again, the Qu'ran says, Jews failed God and had to be punished. Of course, the Jewish Torah says the same thing. So we're all on the same page up to this point. But where the Torah says, "this is why we must obey Yaweh," the Qu'ran says, "this is why you can't trust those bastards."

Their rejection of Jesus was the final straw. God decided to right an old wrong and restore Chosen Peoplehood onto the Arabs to whom Abraham intended to pass along the blessing. The Qu'ran takes this Old Testament's "brains over brawn" story and interprets the moral of the story to be "Jews are evil".

So Arabs are now the Chosen People. And one of their duties is to punish and care for their younger, evil Jewish brothers.


Of course, that whole Chosen People thing begs the question: why would any non-Arab join a religion that says they are second class? If you feel comfortable enough, maybe you could ask your Black Muslim friends about that. It also struck me as kind of weird.

Like the White woman from Tejas who thought it was so cute and funny that she had to get her underaged son's written permission to attend the Haj. Any woman with an ounce of pride would be outraged over having to get a child's permission. Which again begs the question, why would a woman join a religion that says adult women are less capable of responsiblity than male children?


I like being Atheist. Saves me a lot of explaining away things that make no sense.


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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Does Farrakon have cash flow problem?
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thesquanderer Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. When he wants publicity, this is what he does. (n/t)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. +1 n/t
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ironically Michelle's cousin is AA Rabbi.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. The mothership hasn't come for him yet?
For some reason I thought this nut was already gone.

I guess he has more garbage to spew before he finally goes away permanently.
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rollin74 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. what a crazy piece of shit
I wonder if he realizes how irrelevant his hate-filled ass is
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-29-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. A bigot calling others bigots.....
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
21. He's a filthy bigot.
:puke:
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
24. Who the fuck pays attention to that dumbshit anymore?
The whole bowties and bean pies thing is so thirty years ago.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
25. My dad marched in Selma.
Fuck you, Farrakhan.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
28. unaduterated ugly anti-semitism
he's disgusting. Pitiful that he's looked to as a leader by anyone.
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missheidi Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-30-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
30. It was a major story in Atlanta yesterday
about how many cops and decoy cars were used to escort him from his hotel to the airport. And who would pay for all of the security...hmm...I guess he was slightly afraid of the angry Jews, the KKK, and anyone else who has a brain.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-01-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
45. "Mr. Farrakhan, this is the operator."
"Your 15 minutes are up." (click)
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