*** OFFICIAL IRAQ Thread for Stories on ** Death & Casualty # COUNTS **

Apologies if the title seems morbid. The number of threads we're getting with different numbers is getting out of hand. Please post all such LBN stories in this thread.

Clarification: only stories whose main lede is about the deaths.

Addition - please post in your title if the number is confirmed or not.

The Iraqis weren't killing that many a day during major combat.

Perhaps that is where the 130 number is coming from.

Cpl. Tyler R. Fey is shown in an undated image released by KARE-TV. On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, the Department of Defense (news - web sites) announced Fey was killed Sunday, after attacks in the Anbar province of Iraq (news - web sites). Fey, 22, was assigned to the 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, Calif. (AP Photo/KARE-TV)

RIP---saigon

Cpl. Tyler Fey, a 22-year-old Marine from Eden Prairie who was serving his second tour in Iraq, was among several Americans killed over the weekend as insurgents stepped up attacks on coalition forces.

"He was a kind, sweet kid," said Char Loving, a cousin acting as spokeswoman for the family Tuesday. "He was very proud of his decision to enlist, and he was looking forward to coming home."

Fey is the fifth Minnesotan killed in Iraq.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1762/4708737.html

multiple, coordinated guerilla attacks / ambushes in areas we weren't expecting them + block to block fighting in Fallujah = distinct possibility of high causualties

Like I said, I hope to god it's not true.

U. S. Army Pfc. William R. Strange, 19, of Adrian, Ga., assigned to the Army's 91st Engineer Battalion of the 1st Cavalry Division based in Fort Hood, Texas, in this undated photo, died Friday, April 2, 2004, when an improvised explosive device detonated in Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), where he was setting up an observation point. (AP Photo/Family Photo)


RIP---saigon

130 divided by 7 cities = 18 per city.

Well within the bounds of possibility. I sure hope it's not accurate. Even the 12-18 that the cable nets are reporting is too high.

-as

Nothing at stake there is worth even one life.

-Ben Burch
White Rose Society Webmaster
http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

A U.S. Marine honor guard carries the casket of Lance Cpl. Jeffrey Charles Burgess, 20, of Plymouth, Mass., from Christ Parish Church, Monday, April 5, 2004 in Plymouth. Burgess, serving with the U.S. Marine 1st Infantry Division in Iraq (news - web sites), was killed March 25, 2004, due to enemy action near Fallujah, Iraq. (AP Photo/Julia Malakie)


RIP ----saigon

This is a very plausible though very high number given the type of operations we're seeing, particularly in Fallujah. House-to-house sweeping and clearing are very dangerous operations that negate most of the American technological edge.

No Tomahawks, no JDAMS, no Apache support, no Shock and Awe...just old-fashioned bust down the door and pray. In a city of 300,000, few of whom have any love for Americans of any stripe, that's one nerve-wracking existence...and one that can get bloody in a big hurry.

Ramadi: "about 12 killed" and "less than two dozen wounded"...per pentagon sources.

Not terribly precise but that's all they are saying at the moment.

nt

There are all kinds of rumours going around, lets not get carried away. The fewer deaths the better.

God help our troops, God help them all.

and in addition, I'd say God help every single human being caught up in this disaster, regardless of where they were born.

I've a feeling this week, this month,this war is going to be tragic for this world.....

PLEASE make sure you note that your numbers are unconfirmed!

Thanks!

A large number of soldiers have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq, according to unconfirmed reports. Some reports have put the toll as high as 130.

The large scale battle, described as "intense", has taken place in the town of Ar Ramadi, 20 miles west of Fallujah.

Sky News' David Chater said: "None of this is official yet - none of it is confirmed."

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13047720,00.html

AP News Alert

The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 6, 2004; 5:28 PM


WASHINTON - Pentagon says up to a dozen Marines may have been killed in fighting in Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55397-2004Apr6.html

12 Marines May Be Dead in Ramadi Attack

The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 6, 2004; 5:39 PM


WASHINGTON - Up to a dozen Marines were reported killed in new fighting in Iraq, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

Reports from the field said dozens of Iraqis attacked a Marine position near the governor's palace in Ramadi, a senior defense official said.

"A significant number" of Marines were killed, and initial reports indicate it may be up to a dozen, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.


© 2004 The Associated Press


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55426-2004Apr6.html

64 Iraqis Die in Battle With U.S. Forces

By HAMZA HENDAWI
The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 6, 2004; 5:26 PM


NAJAF, Iraq - Iraqi insurgents and rebellious Shiites challenged the U.S.-led occupation force on two fronts Tuesday, mounting a string of attacks across the south and fighting pitched battles against Marines in the turbulent city of Fallujah.

Sixty-four Iraqis and two coalition soldiers - including an American - died in the violence Tuesday, bringing the three-day total to 18 Americans and 134 Iraqis killed in the worst fighting since the war that toppled Saddam Hussein.

On the Fallujah front, Marines drove into the center of the Sunni city in heavy fighting before pulling back before nightfall. The assault had been promised after the brutal killings and mutilations of four American civilians there last week. Hospital officials said eight Iraqis died Tuesday and 20 were wounded, including women and children.

U.S. warplanes firing rockets destroyed four houses in Fallujah late Tuesday, witnesses said. A doctor said 26 Iraqis, including women and children, were killed and 30 wounded in the strike. The rockets destroyed the houses in two neighborhoods in the city after nightfall, the witnesses said.


....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55390-2004Apr6.html

Scary. You can refresh the page and the casualty numbers increase. Shit.

www.foxnews.com

Yep. Bush invited them and indeed they did "bring it on".

Fux News at its finest.

different. 12 to 130, Guess I'll sit back and wait for an official report. Mad as I am at White House policy..even "one injured" is too much to take anymore.

Bush Liars.

:wtf:

Where the hell are those embeds now?

Happy Easter, I guess.

:shrug:

<snip>

Late on Tuesday, fierce fighting erupted again between Italian coalition troops and militiamen loyal to firebrand Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr in southern Iraq, as Rome vowed its 3 000 soldiers in Iraq would not be driven out.

Sadr's Mehdi Army militia called a mid-afternoon ceasefire in the southern city of Nasiriyah, saying it was to allow the Italian soldiers to pull out of the area.

But by 18:30 (14:30 GMT), gunfire was heard again in the centre of the city where 19 Italian paramilitary officers, soldiers and civilians died in a November bomb attack.

Twelve Italians were wounded earlier on Tuesday in gun battles during an operation to seize control of bridges in Nasiriyah from Sadr backers. The Italians killed at least 10 Iraqis and wounded 37, according to figures from the city hospital.

<snip>

Link: http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1509309,00.html

Also in this article:

Bulgarian truck driver killed

Human Rights workers kidnapped

:argh:

BTW - Thanks for providing this space for rapidly changing events!!!

:hi:

Goddammmm it what is going on? We need to know this and why is it that we cannot know this?

this is, I believe, the fog of war. As the poster below indicates, it will come out with time. Right now, its what, 3 am on the ground in Iraq? By midnight EST we should know more.
The situation is most likely fluid. Running battles. Reporters were shut out of Fallujah. I dont know where all this Ramadi news is coming from, but reporters may not have been expecting it. Also the fighting is widespread, 5 different areas. There is gonna be alot of confusion. It doesnt look good so far.
All we can do is wait, and pray.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

I have the feeling that it will be a long time before we have an accurate number. I hope that it stays low.

eom

???

This one came from the CIC, they had to move to block al Sadr and bring retribution for the mutilated bodies. It was a high-risk move. (Not that awol shrub's risk for sure). The shia militants knew they were coming.

quag·mire

A difficult or precarious situation; a predicament.

Heartbreaking

"A Pentagon source has said up to 130 US troops have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq."

mainly because it is just too tragic. But I won't believe it until CNN, MSNBC, or any more reliable source says it.

I am in the UK; Sky News at the top of the hour gave only the Pentagon figure of a dozen.

,...because the flow of obstinate passion by both Sunnis and Shiites over the last several days has been overwhelming. I believe,...it will get much worse because they appear to have been oppressed beyond their limitations.

:cry:

If so, what in the world are we going to do about it. I call for an emergency rally demanding the end of this fiasco and the pulling out of our troops without delay.

"Some reports have put the toll as high as 130 but others have put the death toll at 12 with 20 wounded."
</snip>

You can bet your ass that the Pentagon is working overtime trying to figure out a way to put a 'positive' spin on such a number. And therefore sitting on it for the time being.

I'd be able to smell their heads burning from here in CA!!!

:shrug:

just don't believe it.BTW, weren't the Brits going to take away their license or something for not telling the truth?

12 deaths at Ramadi confirmed, announced ;by Pentagon.11:20 mountain.
Weaseling on the number of wounded, still saying 20 but fighting continuing.

I hear you aint one for "I told you so's", but you said it was gonna blow.
I'm hoping the insurgents didn't have enough firepower for over 100 KIA.

Do the math. 12 will probably be a low number by tomorrow.

Fuck...

OUTSIDE of Fallujah, while all the tanks and gunships were inside, sounds like a target of opportunity.

ON EDIT: Al Jazeera is reporting that CNN is reporting that the assault was conducted by Saddam loyalists, NOT Sadr supporters. Shit, thats even more alarming.

I am unfamiliar with the company. Are they generally reliable? Are they comparable to any more familiar news organizations?

possibly covers Europe too.

Owned by Murdoch.

My dads cable has three news channels BBC, ITV and Sky.

They are not a fly by night organisation (well, they are not as bad as Fox (yet))

They took more chances than the BBC, so they got it wrong occasionally but they were ahead of the BBC, who liked to confirm things, by a couple of hours when things broke. That's a few years ago though and they were just starting up.

David Chater did not report from Baghdad. Instead the Sky reporter in D.C. reported Pentagon figures of a dozen killed, and 20 injured in Ramadi. He said fighting ongoing, and casualty number expected to rise.

I lggged on to LBN at 5:00AM, first report was 4 marines killed west of Baghdad (fallujah),then it turned out to be 5 dead. Next report was 3 dead in and around Baghdad. Next I know I was seeing headlines of 10 soldiers killed today, I am not sure where the other two came from (Fallujah?). 12 just reported from Ramadi bring the total to 22 soldiers today. BRING THE TROOPS HOME... :(

Counting the earlier ones in???????

which is still ongoing. I am sure these numbers will be much higher though... :(

and just hold these thousands of US troops, thousands of international troops and millions of Iraqis in my heart and just try and focus on the real pain and suffering that is being dealt out. I will not let my anger at Bush taint my thoughts of this human suffering... for the next hour. Then, in one hour, I will return to the here and now and redouble my efforts to depose this wicked mockery of a leader that sits on our throne.

smooth out the numbers!

fauxnews.com
One Marine estimated some 80 people were killed in initial exchanges but it was unclear how many of those were Iraqi. Further details about the extent of casualties were not immediately known

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116262,00.html

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13047720,00.html

"Some reports have put the toll as high as 130 but others have put the death toll at 12 with 20 wounded."

...there were significant casualties elsewhere in Iraq as well. It's clear that the 12 number only includes marines around Ramadi.

I *think* I heard CBS say '30', but I didn't hear them repeat it, so I'm unsure if that was 30 US soldiers killed all over Iraq today, or what.

On Edit: Fallujah -> Ramadi

dp

... as long as the uprising continues.

,...unless there is a major roundabout on this foolish administration's belief that force is the path to power.

My flesh is hot with anger at the arrogance and greed and power-mongering and heartlessness of our leadership. They are evil-doers, without the capacity to create peace in this world.

He will be killed or captured, within the next few days, of that much I'm certain. If they go into the shrine to get him, a whole new Pandora's Box is opened.

Either way, the retaliation over the captured or martyred al-Sadr will be fierce. I am positively terrified for our troops right now, and all of my thoughts are with them, and their families. I'm just terrified for them.

actually who's side they are on. Fighting with American soldiers? Just by looking at the headlines.

They were trained by the U.S. and went in with them. Mid-battle they switched sides and started shooting the Americans.

CNN has Dobbs, MSNBC has Abrams, I see nothing on the uprising.

The only thing close to extensive coverage that I've seen was on Blitzer's show...

But hey, did you know that outsourcing is a big problem (according to Dobbs)?

spinning it now

MSNBC is busy talking about J Lo's mom hitting it big at the slot machines.

"more soldiers killed in Iraq today." Nothing about how desperate the situation has been over there today. :grr:

After all, these "terrorists" are only concerned with American TV. /sarcasm off

The most intriguing aspect was the interview from the Prof. in New Jersey (I don't recall his name). He was saying what we are seeing is most likely a uniting of Sunni an Shiite factions to oust the US occupiers. He went on to say more deaths of Iraqis by coalition forces will just make things worse, more and more Iraqis against the US! IOW... we are fucked!... Bring the Troops home!

decLared today wouLd be the deadLiest day since the 2 bLackhawks went down.

These guys that have knowledge of the Sunni/Shia/Kurdish ins and outs in Iraq, they've been hot talking heads lately. Do you think the Shrub maladmin had any intelligence regarding the various factions in Iraq or did they fuck it up again? you know Sistani, al Sadr,intelligence? Never mind, I think I know the answer to that question, they only listened to Chalabi. God what a clusterfuck!

According to Al Jazeerah
http://www.aljazeerah.info/6n/12%20US%20Marines%20killed%20in%20Ramadi,%204%20in%20Falluja,%20and%202%20in%20Baghdad,%20Hundreds%20of%20Iraqis%20Also%20killed.htm

...before they changed it to 12.

if the asshole in the White House thinks this is gonna be okey-dokey by June 30, he is insane.

keeping track since this morning, I had:
5 marines in Fallujah
3 soldiers in Baghdad
12 marines in Ramadi
= 20
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Haven't heard more yet about the 3 soldiers in Baghdad.

When we have an important fast breaking story this is a great way to go. Maybe this should be adopted officially by DU as a way to go with such stories.

What a terrible situation seems to be developing - although not surprising or unpredicted.

It's been a news cycle like no other, day after day after day, and the LBN Mods are really keeping it together, and keeping the discussion concentrated, consolidated, and factual.

Great job, Crisco and all LBN Mods!

You were a pretty darn good mod yourself, VJ! :D

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?!?!?!?!!?!

:mad:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4667742/

In all, 66 Iraqis, 13 Americans and a Ukrainian soldier died Tuesday, officials said, bringing the three-day total to more than 130 Iraqis and more than 30 coalition troops killed in the worst fighting since the war that toppled President Saddam Hussein.

Sky News has been hinting at the 130 number all day, and even Fox News had "130 Killed" on their crawl for awhile.

I'm still unsure about that 13 US number though... what about the soldiers killed and wounded outside of the Ramadi attack?

but what the hell do I know? :shrug:

It's been near impossible to get hard news today.

...per CNN. :(

Today was a bit like Sunday here, Jen. ;)

This is the instant information world, they know right this minute what is going on. But the sheep----- now, we have to keep them sedated.

Not watching Amerikan Idol tonight ? How was Michael Jackson's day in court?

so they can break up the number of dead into easier to swallow sums.

Martha Radise(?)... She only said the 12 in Ramadi number. Never mentioned the deaths elsewhere today. She was going on about Insurgent, Baathist, Saddam loyalist crap. They are spinning big time. Too bad they can not honor our fallen by reporting better... :(

Its all about Corporate profits and sedating the public.

What an awful fucking day. I am tired, sad and weepy so I am going to bed. I dread seeing the news in the morning. Shades of Vietnam, eh? Nite... :(

Is Bush on vacation yet? Regardless of how bad it gets in Iraq, I guess we won't see much of Bush until he returns from his vacation next week.

when Bush went on weeks of vacation and my husband couldn't get a single day off in Iraq. What a lazy bastard!:grr: :grr:

He still thinks he is back in college and getting his Spring
Break so he can continue drinking with the boys.
He really never grew up.

I guess the White House is going to have to scrub the whole thing off of their website now. So much for "Mission Accomplished."

ConcernedCanuk (1000+ posts) Tue Apr-06-04 07:21 PM
Original message
Our Canuk CBC said source say COULD be 130 Military Deaths


.
.
.

8:15 EST

And when CBC even says maybe,

it usually turns out correct

I saw someonoe on this board say earlier they thought it was a typo - didn't know how to search for the thread - -

there will be as much of a coverup as possible.

with her stepson in Baghdad, today must be horrible for her...

I cant even imagine...

the stress is overwhelming and they do not get support in their community. That's why I love to see Marianne ranting in the DU - we are here for her.

n/t

Worried about Michael because his unit guards that prison that is holding many Iraqis without charge, called it a "concentration camp". She's really concerned about the potential for attacks there designed to free the incarcerated "political prisoners", if I understood correctly.

She's been a real inspiration to me!

I copied (with permission) a email message from her son about Iraq passed them out in Hollywood at the March 20 demo.

People read it!

Her experience has helped me understand how war impacts families.
I also recognize how important it is to educate our young people NOW about the coming draft.

I now use the Falluja photos to educate local high school and college students about Iraq.

The longer our GIs stay in Iraq the more likely it is that more Americans will be sent over there to die.

We've got to:

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

I see many posters blaming Bush, as if this were his war solely.

Surely our memories are long enough to remember who voted for this war: Republicans and Democrats.

This war is the culmination of a decade of vicious sanctions and bombing inaugurated under Bush I and continued, with enthusiasm, under Clinton. It is not a partisan creation; the guilt is equally shared.

In other words: if you're angry at Bush, great. But you're only halfway there.

Not much more I can add to that.

absolve.Whoever will be president in 2004 blood will be on his hands.

saying to Wellstone,"we're going to get you", and then having Paul Wellstone die around 2 weeks later all that more ominous now. I've been thinking a lot about him lately.

sobering to think about.
Scott

Yes, yes, some Democrats enabled b*sh's obvious desire to go to war, and yes millions of people the world over knew he was planning on going to war, but that doesn't mean those who voted for an illegal invasion and occupation of a country that could be proven even at the time was not a threat to us should have to answer for their votes!

Sheesh, what are you, some kinda "let's hold people accountable for their actions" person? This is Imperial America, baby! As long as those who voted for the war have a 'D' after their name, they can be excused from allegedly not knowing what millions of people knew at the time.

Get with the program! ABB is the way to go - it's all about beating the puppet figurehead not-really-in-power b*sh, not fixing the systemic rot at the heart of the corporate-friendly U.S. political system!

</"far left" rant>

even more scary is to click on the U.S. Fatalities City Map link at Lunaville. When you realize that every red dot on that map is another dead American it drives the point home in a way that mere numbers simply don't.

I read that the Pentagon is going to stop releasing the names of soldiers injured in non combat incidents. They are also going to update combat injuries only once a week from now on which I guess explains why Lunaville hasn't updated the injury list for April yet.

One thing about updating only once a week is that the numbers go up by much bigger chunks that way. I can only assume that the White House and Pentagon are starting to get frightened about the increasing casualties and they figure maybe if they don't count the non combat numbers they can keep the dead plus wounded to under 10,000 by the time the election rolls around.

From another DU thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x469366

The presidential statement had the tone of a war time communique, as the White House is now back on a war footing, the BBC's Justin Webb in Washington reports.

Further adding to the sense of growing crisis, Secretary of State Colin Powell urged the nation to rally behind its troops, our correspondent adds.

In an unusual foray into domestic politics, Mr Powell criticised the Democratic Senator, Edward Kennedy, for describing Iraq as George Bush's Vietnam.

Mr Powell said Senator Kennedy should be a little more restrained and careful in comments because America was at war.

It just makes me LIVID that they cause the war and the deaths and then try to silence any criticism because 'America is at war'. Aggghhh!

...especially when we've got a presumptive Democratic nominee who also will not pull out of this illegal occupation.

Pro-occupation Dems to the right of me, Freepers further to the right of me - it's not pretty.

you may not dissent. They got us from both sides. Who knows maybe those of us who hate killing and illegal wars really are the devil.
That's all I can figure lately or maybe we died and are in some political hell. Who ever thought to be for truth and peace would cause you to be the viper who rose up and wanted to destroy the world . You are the enemy. I know , I know, many here hate war and love their candidate beats me.

trench and our children look at their vests and helmets and see the bullet marks on their clothing and helmets. Do you think any of these flag wagging Limbaugh supporters have ever thought about that? Just think if it were you. And then you are called back to assult the area again in a few hours.

Again, send Bush's and Cheney's daughters on these assults? All the troops would withdrawl from Iraq by morning and you'd have the Repuke Whores convincing us how just and correct the decision was. Why doesn't a Media Whore publish that fact?

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAV8850RSD.html

"Good" story on so-called coalition of the willing. I'll try to find some snips, but suggest a read:

...

By Tuesday night, the toll from the Shiite fighting included three dead - one soldier from El Salvador, another from Ukraine and a civilian truck driver from Bulgaria. At least 12 Italians, five Ukrainians, three Bulgarians and two Poles have been wounded.

...

The Dutch government, for example, favors keeping its 1,300 soldiers in Iraq after their tour ends July 1. On Tuesday, however, several leading Dutch politicians called for a parliamentary debate on Iraq next week.

...

The prospect of body bags will have an unnerving effect in small coalition members, whose governments sent troops primarily to please the Americans but without the strong support of their own people.

...

After failing to win support in the United Nations for a military strike against Iraq, the U.S. administration cobbled together a coalition of nearly 40 countries, which sent a total of about 24,000 troops.

...

Others include units from former communist countries, among them Poland, Ukraine, Romania, and others - all eager to win points with Washington as they find their place in the new, post-communist world.

....

Hard wire story to snip. It discusses some specific countries (Norway, Ukraine, Bulgaria) having doubts. Goes on to mention Rummy dangling NATO, but points out that NATO isn't into it, and is having problems (is late) with coming up forces for Afghanistan and objections of France and Germany.

Also read today that Japan has restricted their troops to base in Iraq.