Venezuela's allies tell OAS chief not to meddle

Source: Associated Press

Venezuela's allies tell OAS chief not to meddle
The Associated Press
Saturday, February 19, 2011; 10:17 PM

CARACAS, Venezuela -- Latin American allies came to the defense of President Hugo Chavez's government on Saturday, telling the head of the Organization of American States not to meddle in Venezuela's domestic affairs.

Nations belonging to a left-leaning bloc led by Venezuela and Cuba accused OAS chief Jose Miguel Insulza of being a pawn of the U.S. government, which has urged Chavez's administration to allow an international investigation into alleged human rights abuses.

Dozens of Venezuelan students participating in a hunger strike are demanding that Insulza look into their allegations that the government improperly uses judges and prosecutors to persecute Chavez's political adversaries.

"We demand that the secretary-general of the OAS stop his attacks against Venezuela's government," members of the Bolivarian Alternative for the Nations of Our America, or ALBA, said in a joint statement.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021904402.html

Let's get real here, Venezuela's allies are down to the seven dwarves, Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Ecuador, plus the three Caribbean island nations, midgets which support Chavez in exchange for subsidies.

I've always heard from the Chavez propaganda machine about Chavez' closeness to Brazil. But Brazil's President, Dilma Roussef, has made it clear she doesn't want much to do with Chavez. She's steering away from the guy, and is focused mostly on making sure Brazilian companies which are owed hundreds of millions by the Venezuelans, get paid.

Chavez's friends elsewhere are also starting to look pretty shaky. Yesterday one of his two closest alliesin the Arab world, Muammar Kaddafi, had his security forces shooting on demonstrators, and killed over 200. I don't think the Lybian tyrant is about to worry too much about Chavez' human rights abuses.

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Don't worry, I do it as a public service. When you say Latin American allies, one can imagine a large group of righteous people. When one provides the actual list, then Latin American allies takes on a different meaning, doesn't it? Let's just say I want to make sure people understand Chavez is supported by the same usual suspects.

And I want to add, how do you feel about Kaddafi, who is Chavez' pal, shooting 200 people yesterday? Do you think Chavez is going to return that fancy tent he got from Kaddafi? Or is Kaddafi going to ask Chavez to help out? These guys in the dictators' club got to worried, they may be working a way to send troops to help each other, I guess.

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What a ridiculous statement.

killed off Iran's political class while allowing the clergy the only social organizing in the country. What did they think was going to happen?

how many of its own citizens has Hugo's ally killed

of US policy. You're welcome.

We could have a long discussion about this, but I tend to agree with you, I was just pulling your leg.

But then, people get really tense when I say Hitler's regime may have been caused by President Wilson's folly. And as it turns out, US forces bombed the beejeezus out of Yugoslavia in 1999, to put in power the Kosovo Liberation Army, which as it turns out are led by a mafia which engages in white slavery, drug trade, and organlegging.

Imagine those US pilots from the Bible belt, how they must feel when they find out the guys they bombed for are kidnapping Christian folk and cutting them up to take their organs to sell them abroad.

maybe the Romans since they controlled that area for centuries

maybe the Moors since they also controlled Spain

if Hugo is so anti-American, maybe he shouldn't support a regime that is a "direct consequence of US policy"

How many did he kill? The people rose up as people always do against that dictator. We would be supporting the current government too if it benefited us to do so.

How do you feel about the U.S. support for one of the most brutal dictators, Karamov?

I am hoping now that the U.S. will start switching its support to Democracies like Venezuela as their hypocritical and deadly support for all the dictators currently being deposed is exposed.

we all know the Shah killed people but how many people have been killed by Hugo's ally

off the hook, failed of course since the Wikileaks cables now leave nothing to wonder about.

The U.S. was doing very profitable business with Gadhaffi and our old friend Bush forgave him for everything in view of all that money that was to be made there.

how many people have Hugo's ally the Iranians killed

in Libya right now is killing as we speak, with weapons WE have sold him. How many did Mubarak kill, Ben Ali, Karamov with the money and weapons we have sold them.

How many weapons did Chavez sell to Iran btw? Was he negotiating, as this country was to sell Nuclear Power to Qaddafi eg?

This is a pathetic conversation in light of what we are finding out on a daily basis about Western powers.

That information makes Chavez look like one of the good guys for NOT being part of the list of brutal dictators supported by the U.S. around the world.

Yes, he is indeed one of the good guys.

we all know that scum that our government supports

I want to know how many people that Hugo's allies have killed

and by the way-it appears that Hugo is supporting Gadaffi and his Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya

Why won't Hugo haters answer these questions? No, of course he didn't. That was done by 'Civilized Europe' and by the U.S.

Qaddafi was not in Venezuela, that was a lie told by one of Qaddafi's real allies, Britain, the country that has done more to arm and strengthen that regime than almost any other.

They told a lie and Chavez haters WANTED to believe it because of their own personal biases. And they never, ever check for other sources, just jump on the bandwagon and start screaming 'see, he's bad! he's bad!' and then when it turns out he's nowhere near as bad as all the so-called 'civilized' nations, they refuse to acknowledge how wrong they were but try to dig in and twist everything around to the very childish 'Chavez cheerleaders' nonsense, which also always fails.

I can say with confidence, that even if I despise someone, I want FACTS, not lies about them to be what I use to descredit them. There is just no excuse for being willing to believe every lie told by crooked politicians, and that's who started this lie, because of one's own personal biases.

Why do Chavez haters all have that problem? It happens so often because of the paid for negative propaganda of the Global Corps against Chavez, and is proven to be propaganda, as in this case, over and over again, and yet Chavez haters still fall for it and then lose all credibility, again, each time the stories are debunked.

If you dislike a politician, that's fine, talk about the reasons why, not the propaganda spread by his enemies, that tends to only make YOU, not HIM, look bad.

I want to know how many people his allies have killed

the US is not the issue here

we all know what the US has done

why is this such a hard question

what I do when I require an answer to a question. And here is part of what you would find.

The U.S. is a Venezuelan ally. How many people have they killed you want to know? Most reports say over one million Muslims over the past decade and the killing continues and is being extended into Pakistan now.

China is a Venezuelan ally also an ally of every country in Europe and a huge trading partner and ally of the U.S. How many people have they killed? I'll let you do the work on that.

See, that's what you do, you find the list of allies and then you try to find out how many people they have killed.

Imho. Chavez should drop the U.S. as an ally as it has turned into a murderous Empire. But, that is politics and he is putting the needs of his country before his own beliefs. However, he has spoken out against the U.S. illegal wars to his credit, so that is something.

He has many European allies also. Most of them have joined in the killing the U.S. has been engaged in, eg Britain and Poland and sevearal others.

So, you are correct, many of Venezuela's allies have killed people. Most of them are Western Powers. I don't know why you had to ask me the question when the information is very available through Google.



Again, what point are you struggling so hard to make? If you're calling Libya a Chavez ally, I have already pointed out that the UK, Italy, the U.S. Canada and the rest of the civilized world were far more involved as allies with Libya than Chavez could have dreamed of.

In fact, it is becoming a huge issue, the support given to all these dictators by Western powers right now. And nowhere on the list of countries who are the most responsible, could I find Venezuela.

If you have information, eg, allies trade with each other, that Chavez did what Libya's other allies did, I will be happy to read it. Here's a list of things that would put Ven. on the list of Libyan allies along with the U.S. the U.K. eg


1)Did he sell dangerous weapons to Libya?

2)Did he have huge, multi-billion business contracts in Libya with Venezuealan corps doing the work and Ven. expats living there?

3)Was he in discussions with Libya to provide what they wanted most, nuclear power eg, and 'deadly weapons' as the U.S. was?

What in your mind, other than a few comments, made Venezuela an ally of Libya under Qaddafi? I am lost, I have googled and found nothing even close to what normally determines what is called an 'ally' when it comes to Venezuela.

From what I see, he is the leader of a sovereign nation and has allies around the world, as does every other sovereign nation, most of them shared allies with the U.S and other powerful nations.

Whatever point you are trying to make, is escaping me. Try to be more clear.

:thumbsup:

without going into all of this crap

how many people have Hugo's allies in Tehran killed

why is that such a hard question

and don't you think its somewhat insulting to the people of Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Ecuador, plus the three Caribbean island nations to refer to their countries as 'midgets'?

I am just making sure people understand Chavez' support in Latin America is fairly limited, when it comes to his human rights abuses. In other words, only the listed nations do try to cover up for him when NGO's, the UN, and other organizations do try to investigate his regime's human rights abuses.

I didn't call Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia and Ecuador "midgets". I was referring to the tiny Caribbean nations which did join ALBA. I hereby apologize to them, and I will call them "small Caribbean nations" henceforth.

But returning to the original subject, don't you think Chavez is indeed getting isolated? His Human Rights abuses are indeed starting to concern freedom loving people all over the place.

you did refer to those nations as such So noone should bat an eyelash if we meddle like we did to that horrible dwarf Grenada ?

And I apologized for using the term "three dwarfs". So there.

trying to do. Heavily financed propaganda, such as you are 'catapulting' here, is easily recognizable to informed people. We've seen it all before.

The truth is that Chavez and his allies have been very smart in joining forces to strengthen their countries against any more interference from Multi National Global influences.

People don't form political alliances out of love for each other, they do it for the purpose of their national interests.

And it has worked, it has become very difficult now for the U.S. to carry on its old, brutal, cold war tactics against Latin American nations which is why they are attempting to use propaganda, and they thank you for your attempts to help, to try to undermine these democracies. You will have to do better than you're doing, as you can see, your efforts are completely failing.

:thumbsup:

The same way I feel about this country's support of all their dictator friends and allies.

I want this country to support democracies, like Venezuela and Bolivia where the people choose their leaders in democratic elections.

I hope now that the U.S. alliances with dictators has been thoroughly exposed, there WILL be a change of policy towards the democracies of Latin America.

versus midget's subsidies, which some call 'helping poor people'

On Monday February 7, 2011, 3:22 pm EST

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- The foreign ministers of Brazil and Venezuela are discussing efforts to deepen ties ahead of a meeting between the countries' presidents.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro said he and his Brazilian counterpart, Antonio Patriota, were discussing new cooperation agreements in areas including agriculture, finance and telecommunications.

Maduro said a new fiber-optic cable between Venezuela and the Brazilian city of Manaus is to be completed on Feb. 11, improving communication links.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has deepened relations in recent years with Brazil.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Venezuela-Brazil-aim-to-apf-3591665777.html?x=0&.v=1

You're really not very good at this.

lol

And they do want to make sure they get paid. The subject of those talks is pretty much how to get Venezuela's oil money into Brazilian mega-corporate hands. Brazil's government is really good at this, they seek business for their companies, they get it, and then they work to make sure they get paid. And this is one reason why Brazil's economy is growing so fast. But I don't think Mr Maduro will find any Brazilian help when it comes to Venezuela's human rights abuses. Dilma isn't Lula, she's a lot tougher.

That "W" put on the list of "preferred trading partners" with the U.S. after he allowed the U.S. (under threat) to use his country as a staging area for troops going to Iraq? I think what Chavez has accomplished in Venezuela has been pretty damned good. If America attempted to distribute the wealth and take care of the poor, you'd probably think that was a shitty thing also....

Regarding the rest of your post, I'd rather not discuss it here. Why don't you come on down to the Latin American forum, and we'll exchange notes? Also, I'd recommend you try to tell us what you think, rather than tell the audience what you think I think. I am Social Critic. Pleased to meet you. :toast:

And as are Karamav of Uzbekistan and a whole host of other brutal dictators. I hope the OAS is asking for investigations to the U.S. and European nations' human rights abuses. This wouldn't be a political ploy backed by the U.S. and its far right allies in Venezuela's opposition, would it?

So obvious, the anti Venezuela democracy crowd. All that money spent to try to undermine a democracy, and it fails. I think they should give it up as that is our tax dollars they spend on this vile propaganda.

Who knew?

Your grasp of US foreign relations is quite ... uhhh ... stupefying.

Not only the U.S. but he had many European allies also.

Bush forgave him don't you remember? All that oil, and all those construction projects providing billions of dollars for foreign contractors, seems to have persuaded the U.S. to let bygones be bygones.

eom

It's part of the OAS Charter. I think it's nice to see human rights abuses investigated and documented. So why would you object? And think about it, the obvious response isn't to start hollering it's all about colonialism. I would respond "OK, but let's look at the US's Guantanamo concentration camp at the same time". Wouldn't this be a better response? We could snare left wing, right wing, and no wing evil dudes who abuse people.

when someone dares criticizes Hugo, they're either a pawn of the US or a right winger

which he rules by fiat, in suppressing any political dissent.

Even those that hate President Obama have the right to voice their opinion in this country; in Venezuela, it's a crime to criticize Hugo.

Lots of double-standard DU'ers think that's perfectly fine.

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the Spanish language newspapers can smell the English language propaganda hits from the factions (read American Corporate interests) who would like Chavez to be overthrown in a coup similar to what Henry Kissinger did to Chile's Allende.

I do want to know, do you think Chavez' human rights abuses are going to be backed by Latin American nations in general, or only by the Alba nations as I pointed out?

By the way, I live in Venezuela, I wouldn't want to see Chavez overthrown. I'm anti violence. The key is to make sure Chavez doesn't get positive propaganda while at the same time he's abusing human rights. That's something people in Venezuela would rather see aired out and investigated. Most of them aren't too keen on having Venezuela end up like Cuba.

human rights abuses until we end our own. Also, having lived in South America, I know that the police and military perpetrate a lot of abuses even in the more Democratic countries so you can't single out Chavez on this.

So of course I'm fairly well aquainted with the way human rights are abused in Venezuela. I am not a US government employee, therefore I feel morally and ethically inclined to criticize human rights abuses. That's why I had my name changed to Social Critic :-)

hard to minimize the horrific and well-documented human rights abuses, especially against the poorest Venezuelans, mostly perpetrated by the far rightwing wealthy elites for decades before his election. Kudos to him for putting a stop to much of those abuses.

Btw, you comment a lot, but provide no links, no proof of your allegations so that people can do then view these events and determine for themselves who is repsonsilbe. You're welcome to your opinions but everyone has an opinion. Facts are very important in these matters.

I look forward to your production of some backup for your claims. I have of course, done my own research and there are certainly people in Venezuela as there are everywhere, who need to be pursued and prosecuted, but so far I have not come across anything that matches the allegations you are making. Or anything that comes close to the human rights abuses of the U.S and other Western nations.

anti Veneula propaganda and since we usually read it on far rightwing publications, mostly in the U.S., it's a fair assumption.

socialist_critic?

I live in Venezuela. Never heard of Socialist Critic. Pleased to meet you, Yournamegoesthere.

Btw, you may not realize it, but your views of Venezuelan politics are the same as those of the far right in this country.

I do have to make a living. The Lybian crisis is throwing the markets in turmoil, and I got to keep watching al Jazeera at the most ungodly hours to make sure I can put forth educated opinions.

I was born in Cuba :-)

I watch Fox News once in a while, but I haven't been focusing on their comments about Venezuela. I watch it to see what they say about domestic US issues such as health care reform, or the bruhaha in Wisconsin.

But I have a tendency to believe my views about Venezuelan politics are closer to those of Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the Interamerican Commission on Human Rights. If their views coincide with the US government's or the American right wing, it must be sheer coincidence.

Or maybe the American right wing just likes to bitch about anybody who doesn't kowtow to US imperialism.

On the other hand, I am really curious, why would people want to defend human rights abuses by Chavez and his gang? It just doesn't make sense.

Human rights investigations are "meddling" only to the worst of governments.

In fact, as we now know from the Wikileaks cables, the U.S. despises the European Court of Human rights and its highly respected judges because they did have the audacity to criticize the horrendous human rights abuses of this country. And we now know, the U.S. went to great lengths to protect its own torturers from prosecution in Spain.

Well, nobody said the US was being a good guy.

But the question I keep asking is, why would Chavez, Castro, and Ortega support Kaddafi when he's such a butcher? The killing is going on right now, this isn't a theoretical exercise. Whenever a nation aligns behind Kaddafi the butcher, it's giving him the incentive to try to hang on. Nicaragua, Cuba, and Venezuela, by their statements, are encouraging those who are murdering Lybians. This isn't going to help their respective reputations.

D'oh! :rofl: