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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:09 PM
Original message
Bill Daley, White House Chief Of Staff, Pressed About Lack Of Jail Time For Wall Street Culprits
Source: Huffington Post

Bill Daley, White House Chief Of Staff, Pressed About Lack Of Jail Time For Wall Street Culprits

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Appearing on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Daley, who worked as an executive at JP Morgan prior to joining the White House, said it wasn’t the role of a politician, let alone a president, to weigh in on judicial matters. Besides that, he added, the reforms that Obama instituted years after the crash occurred were indicative of his dissatisfaction with the financial sector.

“I think the president, no one has been more out front on the need for financial reform,” said Daley. “Obviously the justice system will take its place and the politicians should not engage in trying to say who should be prosecuted or who should not. That is not a responsible thing to do. You have a number of attorney generals moving forward on cases that are legitimate. But the president felt very strongly — that’s why he fought so hard for national regulatory reform — that the system has got to change.

“Most of the laws that the financial sector worked under were enacted closer to the Civil War than to this century. He fought, it was tough, to be honest with you, I was in an industry that… fought many of it, not all of it, probably 85 percent of it the industry wanted. They wanted to stop too-big-to-fail and a number of other of things. But it was controversial, difficult, but he hung in there and got what he wanted.”

Pressed a bit further, Daley refused once again to say whether “it is illegitimate or not” for the people to demand jail time for the culprits of the crash. “Politicians should not get involved. Producers, directors can do that. But politicians should not get involved.”

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/06/white-house-daley-wall-street-jail_n_831958.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Daley must think the public are easily fooled fools easily fooled by
even sophomoric sophistry and tomfoolery. :patriot:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
48. He would be right.
The public is completely fooled by sophomoric sophistry and tomfoolery.

There are DUers that don't believe Obama has designs on social security. There are DUers that say Obama has no intention of undermining public education. And many DUers are under the false impression that the Obama DOJ is doing a fine job of investigating and prosecuting Wall Street malfeasance.

Worst of all, there are millions upon millions of Republicans and Teabaggers that believe their party actually has their best interest at heart.

This country is so screwn.
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sasquuatch55 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Milton Freidman has a hard-on in his casket!!!!
nt
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
91. +1
That's funny.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
96. You may be right but I didnt need that visualization. nm
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #49
103. That's for sure! n/t
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. Obama can direct the Justice Dept. what to investigate & prosecute
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 07:51 AM by Divernan
Look at how Jack and Bobby Kennedy worked together.
Get a clue, Daley - Obama acts in his capacity as President, not a politician! As a member of the presidential cabinet, Eric Holder, Attorney General of the Department of Justice, is charged with
ACTING IN THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST.

Wall Street and Big Banking's collaboration in destroying the value of pension funds, individual's investments/retirement savings, and the mortgage/housing arena - not just in the United States but internationally were about as MUCH against the public interest as one could find. What we had under Bush's "have mores" was NOT healthy competition of business in our free enterprise system, and was not safeguarding the consumer.

As the largest law firm in the Nation, the Department of Justice serves as counsel for its citizens. It represents them in enforcing the law in the public interest. Through its thousands of lawyers, investigators, and agents, the Department plays the key role in protection against criminals and subversion, in ensuring healthy competition of business in our free enterprise system, in safeguarding the consumer, and in enforcing drug, immigration, and naturalization laws.

You know, there are two ways laws can be created. They can be passed as legislation, or they can be created by the courts, applying legal principals. I am not an economist, nor a corporate banking specialist, although an immediate family member of mine is. She's explained the issues to me and they are complex. I cannot explain the financial intricacies to you defenders of giving bankers a gold-plated pass on their profiteering under the Bush administration. But experts can. It has to do with things like bundling uninsured, high risk investments and misrepresenting them to investors, including pension funds, as low risk securitized mortgages/Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs). Further these were leveraged as much as 30 to 1, and the ratings were artificially inflated by the ratings agencies.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
66. Well...
if you consider the fact that fully 40% of our adult population is functionally illiterate (they may be able to read your juicy bon mot hereinabove, but they cannot appreciate what you've said), then you might begin to grasp that these much vaunted 'Captains of Industry' (that would include our POTUS, Daley, et. al) DO think that the vast majority of the hoi polloi (that would be us) are either illiterate or stupid--or both.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
75. "must think" is a poor choice of words.
"DOES think" is more to the truth.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd like to know what people think these guys should be arrested for.
I'm as pissed about the market as anybody, since it cost me my last good job. But the reality is that reckless speculation was legalized circa 2000. Being wrong doesn't automatically make it illegal.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Fraud
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
37. Yep.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. If you still have to ask, you're way behind the curve.
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 09:01 PM by girl gone mad
Read any of the dozens of books that have been written over the last few years which document the myriad crimes that occurred. Watch one of the many documentaries made about the collapse ("Inside Job" just won an Oscar). Visit any of the blogs that cover Wall Street and search their archives. There is no good reason to be uninformed at this point.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. +1000 nt
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Details?
Specifics?

Your answer was rather vague.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do your own catch-up...
...For a head start, watch the 2010 documentary, "Inside Job."
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. LOL
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 12:46 AM by SnakeEyes
with an attitude like that we might as well just not have a discussion forum here. It's a simple question. I find it amusing that those that do respond are unable to provide an answer with a single specific that directly answers the question. Pretty telling.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
40. Translation: I have no actual evidence, so I'm going to make a claim and then act like it's proof.
Sorry, but that doesn't cut it.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
56. Just one instance, then (if you really care)
you can educate yourself.
All of the "too big to fail" financial institutions, bundled their "assets" (the ones they knew to be un-collectible) and then sold them to their subsidiaries or other banksters. Then they placed huge bets against those very "assets" that they sold, knowing that they were conspiring to hide fraud. Of course, those "assets" weren't worth the paper they were written on (in many cases they did not even bother to actually transfer the "paper").
The purchasers lost billions and the sellers, after they sold these notes at hugely inflated (conspiratorially) prices, also realized huge profits in the bets that they had placed against the "assets" they had sold.
Not only immoral but very illegal. That is why the term "casino capitalism" was born.
Now, if you actually care (not so IMO) you can peruse some of the great sources already mentioned, or even go to the WSJ and find a list of crimes committed by these banksters....
Of course, after they "shorted" the stock and secretly made billion$, they had their friends (Summers, Geithner, etc..) "bail them out" with OUR money. Then the extravagant, wasteful spending really ramped up...FRAUD is a starting point.
RICO should be used against these thieves just like any other criminal enterprise.

This is just ONE example. "Investigate" how our 401k's were stolen....theft.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
88. Another
Is mortgage lenders demanding quotas from loan officers. Before WAMU was swallowed up by Chase, it was discovered that 83% of the mortgages written in one CA county were "liar loans". These people either wrote the loans or lost their jobs.

No Income? No problem.

insufficient Income? No problem. We'll just say you really make $150K instead of 30K.

Banks and mortgage companies had to write loans they knew would go bad to feed the demand for CDOs.

Fraud. Plain and simple
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
86. One of the single largest transfers of wealth ever, and you guys are "concerned" about the banksters
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 12:56 PM by liberation
who created it. In a country with the largest prison population in the industrialized world, where most of the people jailed are in it for non-violent crimes. Your priority is with making sure we triple check to make sure those who ruined the lives of untold millions are not judged too harshly. Yeah, that's the ticket!

I almost don't blame the top 10% anymore for robbing the other 90% blind, no one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of parts of the American public.

LOL.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
89. The sun can make for a rather hot TX summer.
The sun can make for a rather hot TX summer. It's a wee bit obvious to provide links, evidence or sources for that statement, but we all know they're out there...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Deleted message
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
67. Wow.
And, YOUR comment was rather sarcastic and condescending.

The amount of information available which clearly documents the indefensible malfeasance of quite a number of the corporatists who were complicit in the 'crash of 08' is overwhelming. The DUers who are encouraging you to do your own research are obviously aware of this.

BTW, I dislike this increasingly popular term--Crash of '08--because it implies an endpoint to this global economic crisis, which has yet to occur.

(Actually , your response reminds me of my Republican sister. When I trot out irrefutable facts and data in support of any one of my contentions that flies in the face of her 'right wing' talking points, she angrily and defensively asserts, "I don't know about all that, I just know what I believe!")
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. +1000
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Fraud. They misrepresented the quality of investments.
They faiiled to disclose to clients purchasing some of their financial products the fact that they were trading on the opposite side from their own clients on those same financial products. At least in California, that is concealment.

A number of the banks and mortgage companies that were involved in arranging and selling mortgages assisted clients obtaining mortgages in making fraudulent applications.

Those are fraudulent acts.

And Obama and Daley are being disingenuous about Obama's relationship with the Justice Department. While the president should not use the Justice Department to achieve or further political goals, he appoints the Chief Justice who is a part of his government and cabinet. The president is responsible for the general policy of the Justice Department. That means that while Obama should not in any way use the Justice Department to go after or embarrass political foes, he should encourage his Justice Department to prosecute criminal behavior whether those who commit the crimes are his political allies or foes.

I hope that the Obama administration's Justice Department's failure to prosecute the mortgage companies, Wall Street brokers and banks who committed fraud is not motivated by the fact that mortgage companies, Wall Street brokers and banks are potential political donors.

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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. I agree with this sentence...
"I hope that the Obama administration's Justice Department's failure to prosecute the mortgage companies, Wall Street brokers and banks who committed fraud is not motivated by the fact that mortgage companies, Wall Street brokers and banks are potential political donors."

But for the life of me, can't think of another good reason.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. +1
All done while the SEC looked away.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
100. The levels of fraud go to even higher levels.
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 04:39 PM by liberation
The debt packages used to generate the derivatives which ran in the trillions of dollars were totally unregulated. Wallstreet fought teeth and nail for what basically is creative accounting to remain totally outside of the law and regulation by the government. No other legal "industry" and I mean no one whatsoever is allowed to operate in such manner. In fact, casinos (which are the closest economic model to what a derivative is) are far more regulated and reviewed by the governmetn than the derivative markets.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. The biggest fraud ever perpetrated against the American people
in the history of fraud.

If you have to ask, you must not have been paying attention.

Other countries have begun prosecuting their corrupt bankers.

But we live in a country that despises the use of the rule of law for Wall St. criminals and War Profiteers.

For everyone else, that's a different story.

I hope no politician ever again claims that 'no one is above the law'. What a tired, lying statement that is.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. How about bundling bad mortgages together and selling them as AAA? /nt
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. Yep, fraud.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. Fraud, corruption, bribery, racketeering, theft, tax evasion, insider trading, just off the top...
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Demstud Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
50. It's not just about reckless speculation
Seen plenty of arguments for other crimes these people have committed like securities fraud for example.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
58. Read Matt Taibbi's Griftopia, it lays it all out...
you will be pissed and screaming for heads when you are done.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Yep, most would. Here is excerpts from RS:
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
61. It wasn't about being wrong it was about fraud and criminal activities.
Fraudulently rating investment vehicles as triple A when they were clearly not and there is documentation to show the rating agencies knew they were of poor quality with inherent great risks.

Fraud in not recording or faking mortgage documents at the county, state and federal level.

Fraud in conning people to take mortgages that were way beyond their means or best interests, including forging documents.

Fraud in selling investment vehicles that were known to be high risk and poor quality while betting against those same vehicles they sold.

Insider trading.

Price fixing.

Bribing politicians, judges and enforcement agencies representatives.

Dereliction of duty by enforcement agencies by ignoring and hiding crimes.

Fraud in using government funds to pay their own huge bonuses, while hiding their devalued assets.

The Federal Reserve using the US treasury as a piggy bank for Wall Street corporations.

Just a few items that are still known to be illegal.

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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
97. So do you want to debate or just here to stir up? nm
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Daley is the perfect example of the corruption
At the heart of the democratic party.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Please elaborate. Be very specific.
If it's so obvious, I'm sure that you can provide lots of specifics.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. ugh...
he helped write NAFTA. And he's a banker.

Karl Rove said he was an excellent choice...

that specific enough?

:shrug:

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former9thward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I'll be specific.
Daley was Clinton's architect for NAFTA and was Clinton's point man in getting Congressional approval. NAFTA is a job killer. That is corruption. Daley made $8.4 million last year working for JP Morgan last year. What did he do that was worth $8.4 million for that bank? His job title was 'government relations' . Yeah I bet he did alot for them. That is corruption. I am not even getting into the corruption in Chicago where all of the Daley brothers have become multi millionaires as the Daley controlled city and county buy 'services' from companies they own.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Much credit for actually going into specific points.
Most people who throw this nonsense around have absolutely nothing to back it up. As far as "corruption" goes, I think the evidence is weak, but you present decent reasons to dislike the man.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
45. You should try post #25.
Nice punt. :rofl:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Daley, summers & geihtner.
Add that with bernake and cat food commission
& it all adds up to legislative policy that is 'austerity' driven.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Specifics fail.
Throwing around names, allusions, and accusations is not any kind of coherent point.
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Phlem Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. And what to do you have to contribute
Besides criticism. If you can't back up your criticism with your own specifics then your just being b!tchy.

-p
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Educate yourself. Watch Dylan Ratigan's old shows.
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 11:48 PM by JDPriestly
Read some books. Have you bothered to do any research on how derivatives work or just how the fraud in the sale of mortgages worked?

William K. Black was entrusted with a major role in dealing with the S&L crisis in the 1980s.

He wrote the following about the 2008 crisis:

Fraud is the principal credit risk of nonprime mortgage lending. It is impossible to detect fraud without reviewing a sample of the loan files. Paper loan files are bulky, so they are photographed and the images are stored on computer tapes. Unfortunately, "most investors" (the large commercial and investment banks that purchased nonprime loans and pooled them to create financial derivatives) did not review the loan files before purchasing nonprime loans and did not even require the lender to provide loan tapes.

The rating agencies never reviewed samples of loan files before giving AAA ratings to nonprime mortgage financial derivatives. The "AAA" rating is supposed to indicate that there is virtually no credit risk -- the risk is equivalent to U.S. government bonds, which finance refers to as "risk-free." We know that the rating agencies attained their lucrative profits because they gave AAA ratings to nonprime financial derivatives exposed to staggering default risk. A graph of their profits in this era rises like a stairway to heaven . We also know that turning a blind eye to the mortgage fraud epidemic was the only way the rating agencies could hope to attain those profits. If they had reviewed even small samples of nonprime loans they would have had only two choices: (1) rating them as toxic waste, which would have made it impossible to sell the nonprime financial derivatives or (2) documenting that they were committing, and aiding and abetting, accounting control fraud.

Worse, the S&P document demonstrates that the investment and commercial banks that purchased nonprime loans, pooled them to create financial derivatives, and sold them to others engaged in the same willful blindness. They did not review samples of loan files because doing so would have exposed the toxic nature of the assets they were buying and selling. The entire business was premised on a massive lie -- that fraudulent, toxic nonprime mortgage loans were virtually risk-free. The lie was so blatant that the banks even pooled loans that were known in the trade as "liar's loans" and obtained AAA ratings despite FBI warnings that mortgage fraud was "epidemic." The supposedly most financially sophisticated entities in the world -- in the core of their expertise, evaluating credit risk -- did not undertake the most basic and essential step to evaluate the most dangerous credit risk. They did not review the loan files. In the short and intermediate-term this optimized their accounting fraud but it was also certain to destroy the corporation if it purchased or retained significant nonprime paper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/the-two-documents-everyon_b_169813.html
Read the whole article if you really want to begin to understand why we accuse some, if not all, of the banks of committing fraud.

Here is an article specifically dealing with allegations of fraud at Bear Stearns. Attorney General Cuomo is looking into this.

You might also want to watch Client No. 9. On the eve of the day of the publication of news of Elliot Spitzer's illicit sex with a call girl, he was planning to publicly denounce some of the fraudulent activities on Wall Street. Client No. 9 sheds very interesting light on just what happened including possibly how Elliot Spitzer's acivities were discovered.

Then, of course, there is the Academy-Award-winning film Inside Job

Here is the information on that:

Director: Charles Ferguson - A meticulously researched revelation about how political and financial insiders, and ivy league cronies from the White House to Harvard's hallowed halls, created economic circumstances that made millions for them, while they put the the nation's interests at risk. The system failed, but they've not been brought to justice. Former NY State Governor Eliot Spitzer, who appears in Client 9 (also nominated), is shown as a leader who tried to halt the widespread, scandalous economic fraud that left millions of Americans bankrupt, homeless and/or jobless.

http://documentaries.about.com/od/recommendeddocumentaries/a/Oscars-Short-List-For-2011-Documentaries.htm

I hope this answers your questions. There is so much information on this available and not just on the internet. Ignorance on this is inexcusable.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
68. No duh!
AND, snarky demands to 'back up these assertions of fraud' constitutes willful ignorance.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
78. What Did Bank CEOs Know And When Did They Know It?
By Simon Johnson

One view of executives at our largest banks in the run-up to the crisis of 2008 is that they were hapless fools. Not aware of how financial innovation had created toxic products and made the system fundamentally unstable, they blithely piled on more debt and inadvertently took on greater risks.

The alternative view is that these people were more knaves than fools. They understood to a large degree what they and their firms were doing, and they kept at it up to the last minute – and in some cases beyond – because of the incentives they faced.

New evidence in favor of the second interpretation has just become available, thanks to the efforts of Sanjai Bhagat and Brian Bolton. These researchers went carefully through the compensation structure of executives at the top 14 US financial institutions during 2000-2008.
The key finding is that CEOs were “30 times more likely to be involved in a sell trade compared to an open market buy trade” of their own bank’s stock and “The dollar value of sales of stock by bank CEOs of their own bank’s stock is about 100 times the dollar value of open market buys” (p.4).

If the CEOs had really believed in what their banks were doing, they would have wanted to hold this stock – or even buy more. Disproportionately more sales than purchases strongly suggests that the CEOs felt their stock was more likely overvalued than undervalued.

http://baselinescenario.com/2011/02/10/what-did-bank-ceos-know-and-when-did-they-know-it/

More here: The Quiet Coup
The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time.

By Simon Johnson

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/


There is much more written on the subject, also google Joseph Stiglitz another brilliant man Obama decided not to
employ for his economy/recovery team.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
85. Watch it. You're outing yourself with every post. nt
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #85
104. Remember the good old days (not too long ago)
when DU was one of the few sites where you didn't have to see "Liar,liar" and "where is your proof" while discussing well documented thievery and lawlessness?
I think (obviously) it is meant to misdirect the O.P.'s and add another layer of propaganda, this time directed at citizens who really do know the facts (maybe not exact specifics at a moments notice) because they have researched and are fed up with the lies..... Like Tom Petty.."I won't Back Down", neither will I waste my time re-researching well exposed corruption....
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Absolutely. Daley is in the White House as a sort of Wall Street watchdog on Obama.
There are a number of people who do the same for representing the interests of the military in the White House.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
71. the interests of the military
Oh... the other big scam! The pentagon is a welfare program for contractors.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. "We, the People" my ass!



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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. daley is wrong
according to politicians they work for and represent the people
the people want the bankers brought to justice
the politicians therefore need to speak out and demand
that the bankers answer for their rape of this country
otherwise what do we need politicians for if they will not speak out for the people??
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. "no one has been more out front on the need for financial reform"
:spray:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Weak
:thumbsdown:
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Daley is full of " it"
Can't believe anyone will vote for Obama when he appoints such corporate criminals.
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Myshadow Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Fraud and the villagers collusion
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 12:01 AM by Myshadow
Dancin’ dave did his obligatory $bankster question with out the follow up.
When daley said something about ‘Producers’ and what gregory failed to push on was ‘Do you think the economy of the world would be brought to collapse because everybody obeyed the law?
The President became an accessory after the fact from the beginning.
For one thing all of the big banks knew the melt down was coming. It was going to occur with the implementation of Basel II. All of the finance houses furiously spent the early part of 2008 running up the price of oil and other commodities to recapitalize their hollow coffers.
Further, the people who these jackals swindled put the US and London on notice to make good on the crap they sold. That’s why the first money in TARP headed to Europe, Russia and the Mid East.
The President and geithner are practically soul mates and timmah always had the President at his back so he could take all the shit that was heaved his way, all he had to do is stand firm.
The fact is some of the fraud that was committed was almost hague worthy and people at the highest places were criminally culpable by a reasonable application of the law.
That included greenspan, paulson, the bernank, summers, geithner.
Together with the banksters, these people have committed the greatest crime against the economy of the world ever.
The President knew that if it got out the country was committing a crime of such magnitude the world would economically implode and chaos would reign.
The looting was as great as the war crimes we were committing.
The question is what they did was put a finger in the dike,
will it explode?
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
69. Actually,
it IS exploding, even as we type these responses. The global economy is writhing like a slug in an aluminum pie tin half full of salt. Virtually all the world's economies are in dire straits. The Corporate Megalomaniacs who've been feathering their nests during this entirely predictable fiasco know full well that the 'global' nature of our economic behavior will keep that ol' slug a-writhing for just a while longer.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why no jail time? Because Obama took in the foxes to guard the hen house
That is the perfect recipe for these crooks to get away with any and all crimes. No accountability for the rich and powerful.

But you had better not get caught with 5 grams of weed! You'll be looking at 10 years hard time.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. " . . . but he hung in there and got what he wanted.” And that's why
we should all bend over and kiss our asses goodbye. If the President got what he wanted, then he got a weak-ass, pale imitation of reform.

Come to think of it, that seems to be what he usually gets, so I guess that must be what he wants.

We are so screwn.

REC.

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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
32. Bill Daley =Fail
Not only is he not credible, but his points are ridiculous.
Politicians are supposed to be the spokesmen of the folks they represent.
Why would it not be legit for them comment on the obvious fraud on Wall Street?
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
39. Hey, wait? The Attorney General was appointed by Who?
It may not be an elected position, but it's only only one step removed.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #39
72. The Attorney General was appointed by Who?
If you're gonna capitalize it.... you should get it right.

"by Whom."
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Kall Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
42. WTF?
“Most of the laws that the financial sector worked under were enacted closer to the Civil War than to this century. He fought, it was tough, to be honest with you, I was in an industry that… fought many of it, not all of it, probably 85 percent of it the industry wanted. They wanted to stop too-big-to-fail and a number of other of things. But it was controversial, difficult, but he hung in there and got what he wanted.”


WTF? And no, that doesn't stand for Win The Future.

The administration absolutely didn't stop too big to fail, they're bigger to fail now than they were before. The laws that the financial sector REPEALED, and that were not REPLACED by Mr. Hope were done away with in the 90's, which is why the laws that applied to the financial sector dated closer to the Civil War than this century!

But of course, Mr. JP Morgan knows all that perfectly well.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Many laws in the financial sector...
Came about after the Depression and did a good job protecting us until their repeal. I read the business pages before I read the front pages and the lot of these bankers and brokers should be behind bars. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the 'sex scandal ' that put Elliot Spitzer out of office came about from a tip from a bank. He was putting pressure on WS. He was able to prosecute and he was winning cases. The WS elite were wanting him out of the way.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
90. That's a fact Jack
Spitzer was in DC and was getting ready to heap some dirt on Bear Sterns and others.

Here's a great piece by one of my favorites that tells the ugly story.

It also reveals the "Steering" that took place that resulted in 73% of sub prime loans going to non white folk.

http://www.gregpalast.com/elliot-spitzer-gets-nailed/
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
44. So they asked the thief why he was not in jail nor were his robber baron buddies?
It is sick that Daley is not in jail and JPMorgan bankrupt, but capitalism is dead and we won't be bringing it back anytime soon. This new system works better for the barons and dukes.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
47. Until Limbaugh is squealing
that Obama's DOJ is too hard on the Wall Street criminals we haven't even gotten started.

Where are you, Holder? Where are you Obama? You corporate ass kissers make me fucking sick!
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Steerpike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
51. LOL
Edited on Mon Mar-07-11 07:10 AM by Steerpike
What is with you guys...we can't send rich people to jail! We need them...we'd be lost without them...like little sheep wandering in a land of wolves...
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
52. Barack Obama: "My administration is the only thing between you [CEO's] and the pitchforks..."
There was never any intention of investigating the corruption. Unmasking the truth behind American capitalism and the corporate political machine is not on any President's agenda.
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vicarofrevelwood Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
53. Up the long ladder with Daley and Wall Street!
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
55. As long as we prop up capitalism we are going to deal with these scenarios -
whether they fall as legal or illegal usually only depends upon how "good" their lawyers are ... It is capitalism itself that thrives on the greed, over-production, speculating, etc... It is not that the actors are bad, it is that the system is barbaric and it is not only republicans supporting it.
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Faith No More Donating Member (230 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
57. This is a typical bullshit statement.
It's one of those "my mouth is moving and words are coming out, but they mean nothing" type of things. The cheapest thing in the world is talk and that's about all we've got out of this administration. Pretty words, same old bullshit.
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Bosso 63 Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
60. Given the sheer scale of damage done, is prison enough?
I'm against the death penalty, but it is still legal in the U.S.
Given that, if the punishment is supposed to fit the crime, then these crimes should warrant the maximum punishment under the law, or at least be severe enough to make the people on Wall Street pay more attention to the "Moral Hazard" of what they do.

"nothing focuses the mind like a hanging"- Samuel Johnson


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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. French Revolution Severence Packages.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
62. The fly in the ointment
“Obviously the justice system will take its place and the politicians should not engage in trying to say who should be prosecuted or who should not."
Bush gave himself the power to jail people on a whim, and Obama adopted it as his own.
These economic terrorists belong behind bars until the end of the world.
Just add terrorist to anything and the President has omnipotent powers.
Start labeling them as terrorists at every opportunity. It's all about framing the issue, something Democrats have yet to learn.
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
63. Cenk Uygur, Matt Taibbi, Why isn't Wall Street in jail?
Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x554575
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
65. Just one more reason why Pres. Obama must be defeated.
x
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
87. Wow!
How about, Palin, Romney, Paul, Huckabee instead?
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Oh, yeah, The ol' leeser of 2 evils argument. Not very inspiring.
x
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #92
102. I don't disagree with your sentiment, but...
It is indeed a choice between two evils. I may have lost all faith in Obama - but I'll vote for him because frankly I don't think there will be an alternative, not one that could hope to win the Presidency. It is this that he and many politicians of the past have banked on, that the public may not like them, but will vote for them because they find the alternative far worse. Unfortunately, in our political system that works quite well.

Who's going to challenge him and succeed? A seated President is extremely difficult to defeat, that's if we can even trust our voting system... which given the last few elections I'm not so sure of anymore.

I'm not pleased about it (that's an understatement, but it would take me far too long to elaborate) but he IS the lesser of two evils and I don't see what other reasonable choice I have. A write in campaign? A progressive challenger with the popularity and the power to defeat Obama? Not likely.

All that said... his actions and in many cases his failures to act will not inspire his base. He's created such divides among his own supporters that many of them will turn elsewhere. The Republican nominee of 2012 will have a far better chance of taking the Presidency than any progressive challenger I can think of.

It sucks, but that's the way it is. I can't see an alternative.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #92
105. I agree
but in this instance (these instances actually, because it will not stop) It is the sickening truth. Until the PEOPLE have had enough and act upon it in unity, we will remain fucked.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
70. This thread demonstrates why nobody is in jail
Everyone who wants people in jail has essentially said that the case is complex enough that they can't sum it up in a post and have to direct you to a series of books, articles, and documentaries that claim to demonstrate that the behavior of certain "banksters" (which I take to mean proprietary fund managers at investment banks; I find the word silly, myself) went beyond being stupid, incompetent assholes and into the world of literal legal fraud (which is different from simply lying to a customer, incidentally).

If it's impossible to clearly articulate the case in a discussion board, it's a very difficult sell to a jury.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. No, those guys are not in jail because they own our politics
not because we can't form a narrative.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. Right, and when you own politics, you generally make the awful shit you do legal
Like they did. Which is why there's not a serious push to jail a bunch of trading desk managers.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #70
94. The criminality of the Nixon administration
was also hard to articulate initially. It took months of invietigations and hearings to get to the bottom of that rats nest. Neither the Obama crowd or the congress have shown any desire to root out the corruption that has swallowed up not only the financial system, but the regulators as well. There's been no serious investigation of Wall Streets crimes because the investigators and the press are complicit in what happened and is still happening. You don't have to see the corpse under the bed to know there's been a crime. You can tell by the smell.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
73. Enough of these Obamanations of our democracy.
We go to jail for jaywalking and they get off Scot free?
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
76. Politicians should not get involved but the government should bail them out?
Talk about a disconnect! :crazy:
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
79. Daley is terrible on panels
I heard him yesterday and he basically would not answer any direct questions put to him. He would just talk and talk and say nothing.

He's actually a terrible spokesperson for the White House. They should keep him away from media.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
106. He was put there as part of a deal.
that is why Rahm is now Chicago's mayor, even though he was not a resident....


REVOLT GOD DAMN IT!
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
80. Martha Stewart should be
the poster child for our justice system.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Yep. She contributed to Democrats and was jailed for possible insider trading
which was never proven. Yet OBVIOUS insider trading and market manipulation by GOP backers gets a blind eye-especially if they're among the uber rich.
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AKDavy Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
81. One set of laws
Inequitable enforcement.

Just about anyone posting in this thread would be in prison already if they had committed a fraction of the crimes committed by the Power Elite.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
82. Problem is...
even if someone gets convicted, they wouldn't go to jail. I be surprised if anyone would get more than house arrest and a fine.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
83. I agree with Daley, the legal system should not be politicized.
And that said, Holder should go right after the Wall Street crooks!

There isn't a single company in this country that wasn't impacted by the actions of those azzholes!!
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
93. News flash: The judiciary is already politicized. Bush v Gore is just one of many examples.
x
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. Naw, that was a legit decision. The Supreme Court is the top court in our country.
We are a nation of laws, not men.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
101. We can't very well expect them to jail their own cabinet members, can we?
When the WH gets Wall Street insiders to investigate and regulate Wall Street insiders, you get just what Wall Street paid for.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
107. "Producers, directors" can't directly question or prosecute people
Lame excuse
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