Cuba Sentences American to 15 Years

Source: Reuters

HAVANA (Reuters) - U.S. aid contractor Alan Gross has been sentenced to 15 years in prison for crimes against the Cuban state, state-run television reported on Saturday, in the latest setback to relations between two Cold War enemies.

A panel of judges reached the decision after a two-day trial last week in which prosecutors said Gross was involved in what the government described as a U.S.-funded "subversive project" to "topple the Revolution."

The case was the latest flare-up in U.S.-Cuba relations that have been sour since a 1959 revolution put Fidel Castro in power.

Gross, 61, was convicted of "acts against the independence and territorial integrity of the state" for working to set up clandestine Internet networks for Cuba dissidents using "sophisticated" communications technology.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/03/12/world/americas/news-us-cuba-usa-contractor.html

at least they are working to get julian into the clutches of the military

for many American prisoners.

Due process is handing down the verdict the Castros have dictated.

At least they've improved down there.

Back in Che's day, Che would have just had him shot without even a show trial.

There is no high horse here that you can climb on.

Is much worse than something Cuba has been doing for decades as par for the course for EVERYONE in the country.

I guess it's only a few years if you ignore the founding genocide, the infrastructure built by slaves, the ongoing denial of civil and human rights to black Americans. Immigrants in ICE detention don't have the rights of charged suspected criminals, we arm paramilitaries all around the world and our government is currently torturing an Army private for political reasons at Quantico.

Otherwise, we're cool.

Too many reading U.S. Americans are finding out now what our heritage has really been.

I would surprise me if you or any of the other Castro cheerleaders would address the issues in Cuba head-on instead of continuing your distractions.

.... fucking around in someone else's sandbox and he got caught. Boo hoo.

Which is why he was an idiot.

what he was doing was illegal, either.

Not the same as handing out amusing novelties.

http://www.sugaronmytongue.net.nyud.net:8090/images/editor_images/6106e.jpg
There's also the small consideration of the embargo, which prohibits ordinary U.S. Americans from giving a THING to any Cuban IN CUBA. PERIOD. How on earth would anyone justify this U.S. American's giving out cell phones, computers, other communications equipment, anyway?

I mean, this the country that shot down a plane dropping copies of the UN's Universal Declaration on Human Rights for Cubans to read.

Doing that was illegal, so Cuba was right to shoot down an unarmed civilian plane, killing all aboard.

We got them back by shooting down an Iranian passenger jet.

The Vincennes had already been under attack by Iranian gunboats. In this environment, the crew misidentified the airliner (reports show a lot of confusion) and shot it down.

You compare that to a plot planned in advance to shoot down two positively identified civilian aircraft that were leaving Cuban airspace after trying to get information to the Cuban people?

Oh, yes, it was planned. One of the supposedly innocent Cuban Five was told not to be on either of the planes that day, and that if he had to go, he should notify his Cuban spy handlers first.

had the "Brothers to the Rescue" (Hermanos al Rescate) heeded the warnings they had gotten from the United States government concerning their acts of terrorism against Cubans:

The Downing of the Brothers to the Rescue Planes

There are those in Miami, and a few of their allies in the U.S. Congress, who maintain that the shootdown of the two Brothers to the Rescue planes in the straits of Florida in February of 1996 was an act of terrorism on the part of the Cuban government which constitutes sufficient grounds for labeling Cuba a terrorist state. The shootdown was reprehensible. The Cuban government could have—and ought to have— warned the planes off or forced them down. It might then have taken the whole issue to the UN Security Council, pointing out that the failure of the U.S. government to halt these illegal flights was creating a dangerous situation in the Straits of Florida and asking the Security Council to take cognizance. It might then have avoided taking human lives and have had world public opinion on its side.

But if we are to call the shootdown a terrorist act, this would imply it took place without provocation or warning. But the fact is that Brothers to the Rescue planes had been penetrating Cuban airspace and overflying the island itself for months; the FAA began investigating Jose Basulto’s group in August of 1995.107 From July 7 to October 13, 1995 alone, the FAA and the State Department warned Brothers to the Rescue at least seven times in public and private statetements that Cuba would defend its boundaries against any intruders.108 Cuba, in response to the Brothers’ continuing incursions into its airspace, had repeatedly warned that, “Any boats from abroad and any aircraft can be downed.”109

On two separate occasions in January of 1996, Brothers to the Rescue overflew Havana at low altitude dropping leaflets. It was at that point that the Cuban government lost patience and issued a warning that the next time these planes came into Cuban airspace they would be shot down. These warnings were repeated several times publicly and in private conversations with U.S. officials.110

In a meeting with Fidel Castro that same month, Hill staffers who were part of a CIP delegation to Cuba asked about the overflights. When they
suggested that the offending planes were unarmed, Castro insisted that they could not be certain theplanes were unarmed. Planes piloted by exiles from Miami had dropped incendiary devices and explosives over Cuban territory in past years, and they might do so again. Castro emphasized that the first duty of any government was to defend the national territory and that Cuba would defend its own. Cuba had warned the Brothers to the Rescue planes to stay away. If they did not, Castro maintained, Cuba would act accordingly.11

“Nobody from a foreign country would dare fly into U.S. airspace to drop leaflets over
Washington. NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense) would be ready for a shootdown.”
-Jane Franklin, historian

More:
http://www.ciponline.org/cuba/cubaandterrorism/keepingthingsinperspective.pdf
Center for International Policy

where Che Guevera and I free the Cuban people from the Batistas.

Naked.

Oh, by "Che Guevera" I mean "Adrienne Barbeau", and by "free the Cuban people from the Batistas" I mean "screw our brains out on the beach".

:evilgrin:

...that consisted of a judicial panel. Statistics show that judicial panels are more wrong than juries when they convict.

For their job and their special status and perks under the regime.

I wonder what happens when they give a judgment contrary to the desires of Castro.

I wonder if they've ever dared to do it.

...they do it because if they don't they'll suddenly find themselves at the bottom. It's basic human survival. (Which is why anarchists consider Cuba a capitalist state.)

I hate dishonesty... I have no more patience for it, and I hope some day others feel the same way, because it's tearing this country down.

if any country has clearly got satellite equipment on a list of banned imports then don't take satellite equipment into that country.

Well, I have no idea if you would, but a significant portion of this board has a blind spot when it comes to Cuba's human rights record.

It was a clear cut case of breaking the law which in this instance is one which Cuba treats seriously.
He was charged appropriately in accordance with breaking that law.

Its quite possible than anyone other than an American may have got a lighter sentence but then no other countries were involved in the Bay of Pigs.

both at home and all around the world. :eyes:

to rub it in. :rofl:

:hi:

19th century, sure. Lately? Not so much.

you look at.

It doesn't make me happy to point this out, it just happens to be true.

Walker and his union busting has been in the news lately, so here's the test for someone in Cuba to rate the level of human rights there:

Try to form an independent union.

That's it, just try to form a union.

Good luck.

If there's any resistance, maybe you can have a protest against Castro and hold up some signs like this one.



I'm sure nothing bad will happen to you for doing so.

No denying it.

The CTC is the sole union authority in Cuba, yeah you can form a a union, but only under the auspices of the CTC.

So when people say that something is illegal and doing it is wrong, they're basically attempting to avoid making a moral statement about whether something is wrong. It's all about "the rule of law." But we can disagree with laws and we can take a moral and ethical stand on those laws.

Post any information you can find on forming new unions in Cuba.

You'd be doing everyone a real favor.

Also, provide any link you have to protests in favor of forming new or independent unions to replace or supplement the unions they already have.

Here's one I found interesting: http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20100929052132925

unions, and return the country to the days before the U.S. government turned troops loose to mow down union workers, before the coal mine owners, factory owners hired men to infiltrate the workers, determine the leaders, assassinate them, before they hired mercenaries to move into troublesome towns and slaughter the workers, etc., etc., etc. The right-wing has fought unions like madmen here since the very beginning, absolutely determined to return US workers to the poverty from which ANY job under any conditions was better than the pain in which they lived. Just barely, of course. If things go as the right-wing wants, NO ONE but the few and most vicious get to escape crushing poverty and despair. Everyone else must learn to live on impossible dreams, and unfounded hope.

Creating unions was the U.S. worker's response to industrialists who intended to use everyone, including children, without safety standards, without respect for their need for rest, until they dropped in their tracks. I have never heard of this kind of problem for workers in Cuba after the revolution, but I HAVE heard of this kind of problem in the United States at the sugar plantation owned by Cuban "exiles," the Fanjul family, sickeningly enough. They kept this filthy abuse of human beings up until the world's attention was finally called to them in a group suit against them, as well as an evening-long documentary special on TV.

Haven't you ever stirred yourself to learn a thing about your own country's history regarding unions? Please.

I'm not seeing the kind of deadly conflict you pretend there is in Cuba regarding unions. Nope. Why even bother, if you've got no real information?

Having satellite equipment along in Cuba doesn't get you 15 years. In fact, you can pay a small bribe (*cough* fine *cough*) and be able to freely use it.

Are you saying those fucking freedom-hating Cubans don't allow Americans to engage in covert operations and spying designed to destabilize their government?

Because you know, that's totally legal in the United States. Declared enemies can just come here and set up spy networks with their own electronic communications, and it's totally okay.

Truly sad, isn't it? Help, ol' tiny mean Cuba is trying to get us!

http://i444.photobucket.com.nyud.net:8090/albums/qq165/junah42/Snark/Falme/stickfigure50x30ani.gif http://i444.photobucket.com.nyud.net:8090/albums/qq165/junah42/Snark/Falme/stickfigure50x30ani.gif http://i444.photobucket.com.nyud.net:8090/albums/qq165/junah42/Snark/Falme/stickfigure50x30ani.gif

... you'd assume that if someone was caught setting up spy communications here, we'd give them an ice cream cone and send them home. This DOUCHE committed a crime, what would BE A CRIME in many countries, and got caught. And now the outrage! Pack sand.

Factbox: American faces long sentence in Cuba case
Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:14pm EST

(Reuters) - American Alan Gross has been sentenced to 15 years in jail in Cuba for working to set up clandestine Internet networks under a U.S. program outlawed on the communist-led island.

The United States has demanded his immediate release and his lawyer, Peter Kahn, said an appeal of the decision that followed a two-day trial last week would be explored.

Gross, 61, already has been imprisoned for 15 months. His daughter and mother have both been diagnosed with cancer since his arrest.

Some observers believe Cuba will release him early on humanitarian grounds but the government could hold him for a long time to send a message that the United States must stop activities it views as subversive.

More:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-cuba-usa-contractor-fb-idUSTRE72B3NK20110312

No wonder they came down hard on him.

Usual tactic of those who don't want to address the issue. If you want to discuss Manning, start a thread about it. :eyes:

If not, it's a diversion. You are not stupid, you know it.

You really have to try hard not to see why this is a frankly HILARIOUS thing to say about Cuba when our every phone call or email or library book is subject to surveillance.

Not only would Gross get much worse treatment here, any citizen can be picked up for any reason whatsoever and have their media confiscated under the Patriot Act.

You really have be a denial Olympian to miss that. :)

This isn't about the US. If you agree with Cuba, fine. If you want to condemn them for being assholes, fine. I happen to think they are totalitarian assholes.

If you want to talk about the US, start a thread about it.

This is a standard and weak tactic used by those who don't want to address the original topic. It says a lot about you.

:)

So, back on topic...Do you agree with Cuba? Do you agree with the Cuban law? Do you consider it okay for a government to monitor it's citizen's communications?

And people will continue dancing around the question of satellite equipment being used by Cubans every day without getting charged like Gross did. It's arbitrary enforcement of law, it's not really justice.

comb libary, book sales records to even try to find out what BOOKS we read?

Who would have thought they could take the contents of your computer, or bug your phone without your knowing it?

Who would have believed the assaults on people wearing t-shirts to malls, to schools, on airplanes by government personnel, by school authorities, what about people thrown out of parking lots for bumper stickers, or thrown out of political rallies for Democratic bumber stickers while, at the same time, right-wingers swagger around with their guns in crowds of people attending speeches in the run-up to the last Presidential election?

Democrats get harrassed for shirts and bumber stickers, right-wingers get a pass for clearly terroristic behavior.

Definitely have to be a real, true blue Olympian of denial. A powerhouose, like Pat Robertson! He can leg-press a ton, as we know!

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com.nyud.net:8090/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060529/060529_robertson_lift_hmed_7a.grid-6x2.jpg

It's been going on since the 40's-50's. Maybe you are in your 80's-100's, and had a different childhood, but the US government has been tapping calls since the 20's, and before that, was intercepting telegraphs.

They weren't, however, arresting people for making phone calls without permission, which is what Cuba is essentially doing.

It would be useful to see the facts.

An internet link is a phone call.

No doubt the U.S. government wouldn't appreciate U.S. citizens making calls charged to the Cuban government/taxpayers, either.

That's really reaching.

should be declared as income from another country's government.

Even the U.S. President is responsible for declaring everything he receives from other countries, as well, whether a special formal gift or a stick of gum, from what I've heard.

No U.S. Citizen is allowed to accept a dime from a Cuban while in Cuba, according to the U.S. Treasury, without putting himself directly in line for a real #### storm from our government. I read this story back in 2000, and saw it discussed by many, MANY people at a heavily used US-Cuba Relations message board at CNN, which is gone now. Some posters here will remember it:

Kip (73) and Patrick (58) Taylor of Michigan sailed to Cuba in 1996. Knowing that U.S. law prohibited spending money in Cuba, the Taylors stocked their sailboat with enough provisions to last for the duration of their three-month trip. While sailing back to Florida, their boat was caught in a storm and struck by lightning, destroying their mast. After being rescued by the Cuban Coast Guard, the boat was towed back to Cuba. When the Taylors applied to the U.S. Treasury Department for permission to repair it, they were told to abandon their boat and leave their two dogs in Cuba. After weeks of attempting to negotiate, and unwilling to leave behind their dogs and a sailboat worth more than the costs of repairs, the Taylors fixed their boat mostly by themselves and with the help of visiting sailors who donated parts.

Upon their return to the U.S., the Taylors faced a civil charges from OFAC for disclosing that they gave a band-aid to a Cuban cook who had hurt his finger. They were charged with providing "nursing services to a Cuban national," which is forbidden under the embargo. For the next four and a half years, the Taylors, who are on a fixed income, were unsuccessful in requesting a hearing or a reduction of the penalty. In 2001, the government froze Patrick Taylor's tax refund, which he needed to pay for urgent medical care, and applied it to his fine. In 2003, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed suit claiming that the Taylors were unfairly penalized under the Cuba embargo regulations. Lawyers also say the two were not informed of their Fifth Amendment rights which protect them from self incrimination. The suit was eventually settled.

More:
http://www.righttotraveltocuba.org/defending/victories_vs_travel_ban

Probably because it didn't happen.

Sure, it's legal (with a warrant) to search that network, but merely creating it isn't a crime.


edit: typo

You should take time to think things through.

The crime would not be setting up the network or even offering the network to their people.

and satellite phones to his contacts.

The U.S. goveernment itself forbids U.S. citizens to give anything whatsoever to Cubans in Cuba. PERIOD.

As gifts these items are income to the recipients, just as gifts are income to people here. They are also gifts from a foreign government.

Why would you imagine you can mislead anyone here? Democrats are not stupid, you should have realised.

Heck, it's a sport in the US.

That's so bad! Shoot him on sight!

Oh the humanity, giving people the tools to communicate without government interference or snooping.

That shouldn't be allowed.

"The U.S. goveernment itself forbids U.S. citizens to give anything whatsoever to Cubans in Cuba. PERIOD."

Well, that's just a flat-out lie.

The US does not criminalize means of conveying messages.

They reversed themselves when they realized banning anonymity is banning free speech. They would not have stood a chance in court.

...won't let them.

"our every phone call or email or library book is subject to surveillance"

Encryption is legal here. I can make an encrypted phone call or send an encrypted email, and the government has no means by which to get the content.

Al Gore failed in his clipper chip and key escrow projects to give the government that ability, remember?

Get caught making encrypted phone calls in Cuba.

You would love to ignore that this is a country that only a few years ago cracked down on private ownership of TV satellite receivers because they don't want the people hearing information not cleared by the government.

"Not only would Gross get much worse treatment here"

Possession of communications equipment? That's perfectly legal.

Remember, Cuba is a country that only recently made it legal for the average joe to own a cell phone.

Gross was arrested under a generic law that got 75 Cubans arrested simply for advocating the ability to directly elect their delegates to the Peoples Power.

against Cuba? You ignore the fact that Cuba has been under attack for 50 years by US government and their black operations dept., using psychological warfare, biological warfare, selective assassination, bombs, bazookas, everything in the Pentagon's arsenal short of nuclear (not that it hasn't ever been contemplated).

What happened with this guy was perfectly understandable and predictable. I shed no tears for the tool. He allowed himself to be used by the State Dept./USAID/CIA. I think that Cuba was relatively lenient for his jail time, though. I would have expected much more. A firing squad at the paredon would have been perfectly warranted IMHO.

Maybe you should stop being an apologist for behavior you would condemn here.

:scared:


It's getting completely ridiculous.

Looks like we have had the problem for many years now. And it started around the same time the Fairness Doctrine was rid of. Around the same timewe started allowing major media consolidation...

That's going pretty light on him. If he had been arrested here, he'd be locked up forever. Or worse.

We know how to hold people indefinitely without trial!

Who actually are in Cuba.