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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:46 PM
Original message
Al Franken: ‘They're coming after the Internet’
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 02:01 PM by kpete
Source: Politico

AUSTIN, Texas — Sen. Al Franken claimed Monday that big corporations are "hoping to destroy" the Internet and issued a call to arms to several hundred tech-savvy South by Southwest attendees to preserve net neutrality.

"I came here to warn you, the party may be over," Franken said. "They're coming after the Internet hoping to destroy the very thing that makes it such an important (medium) for independent artists and entrepreneurs: its openness and freedom.”

Net neutrality, he added, is "the First Amendment issue of our time."

Receiving a hero's welcome from the liberal crowd, Franken took repeated shots at big telecoms, singling out Comcast.




Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51266.html#ixzz1GbKGxptQ
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. And "They" are just a handful of rich people
We the people have the power to stop this. And we must!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. My guess is that they will pass some legislation...
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 02:03 PM by CoffeeCat
...and name it something like "The Fair and Free Internet Accessibility Act" which will contain
horrid restrictions that will be worded in very broad, general terms. Just like the Patriot
Act.

No one flinched when the Patriot Act defined an "enemy combatant" in such general, obtuse terms. Terms
that turn even peaceful protestors into "enemy combatants" who can be whisked
away without being formally charged, then detained indefinitely and tortured.

They'll legislate the Internet into oblivion. They don't need our permission. They certainly won't be
swayed or threatened by a big protest.

They question is...what are we going to do about it? What can we do about it? The means
must be peaceful, but we must stop this.

We lose if a free and open Internet goes away.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. "the means must be peaceful"? - I say
the means must begin peacefully...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. If you shoot at the police
they will kill you.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #59
111. and if the police shoot at us
a "gun" will be found in our hands.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #111
128. Remember what Gandhi said ? 50,000 Englishmen can not control 10 million Indians
I believe the same holds true for America. A few rich Pigs with an army can not control 300 million Americans.

There is a lot more of us than there is of them.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #128
135. We can't even.............
get it together to boycott their products & put them out of business.
And I beg your pardon but I have been flinching to so hard for 10 years........I might be mistake3n for Michael Fox ( no slur intended)
We had meetings, a display at the Common Ground Fair. I painted a big sign for the booth &D Kucinich stopped by to comment & vow solidarity!

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indy legend Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #59
139. I never said anything about shooting at the police or anyone else.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 09:43 AM by indy legend
Only standing up for our rights while we still can and still have some. And to the moderator, Why was my post removed? I didn't say anything that hasn't been said by others and I threatened NO ONE. I was only agreeing with and responding to #22 which is still there, BTW, and that if we exhaust all peaceful means then we must consider or be willing to exercise other options if we wish to remain free. If the founding fathers had sat back and took it we would still be an English colony. I am sorry if that was taken the wrong way, but I am tired of "playing nice" with people who want to destroy my country and enslave me and my family while ignorant rubes roll over and take it. I have posted on here for a long time and I have NEVER had a post deleted and if you Mr./Ms. moderator think I'm a bit chapped by it you are correct.If you are going to delete post based on what someone else thinks they read when that isn't what was said at all then all this is just a waste of time. I thought this was the place for the free exchange of ideas unlike the MSM. I guess I stand corrected. BYE DU! It has been nice exchanging ideas with most of you (even those of you who respectfully disagree with me and that I respectfully disagree with) but if we can't be free to talk to one another then what's the point. I can be censored anywhere in the corporate media based on someone else"s perception. I never thought that would be here.I would say to continue to fight the fight but the mods would probably misconstrue that as a "violent "threat so hang in there my friends. Me and my family, as I have mentioned on other post on here, are moving to Vancouver in June to pursue what used to be the "American" dream.It wasn't our original plan but the opportunity came up and we took it.,Good luck fellow DUers. To the moderator don't worry about future post by me. IT WIIL NEVER happen again! I will be reading what my friends have to say here but I will never "offend" anyone on here again.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #139
163. If I remember right
I think you said, "beyond peaceful means." If that's what you said, what did you mean by it?
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. A free and open Internet will *never* go away. Ever.
There is too much infrastructure in place to make it so.

The Great Firewall of China can be worked around. Other countries' firewalls can be worked around. There are proxies, anonymizers, there is Tor, there is encryption, steganography, and more. The Internet can be connected to in many ways - dial up, amateur radio, satellite Internet, WiMax, long distance Wifi, DVDs by mail... there are many ways to get information in and out of a country that decides to shut itself off from the outside world, provided you do have friends on the outside.

It just gets a whole lot harder to use the Internet if restrictions are put into place.

We did fine when we just had email, telnet, ftp, and usenet. We used Bulletin Board Systems. The World Wide Web is nice... but WWW is not the Internet.

"Anonymous" we have to remember is on the side of an open and free Internet. We have allies.

The worst case scenario is to create a darknet that connects to the rest of the world by unconventional means that no US governmental agency can enforce or intercept.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
79. Of course it will
did you think free and open radio would go away? Well, it has. Same thing with TV. Pretty soon all that will be available on the internets will be fascist propaganda, just like the two older media.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #79
106. You can buy the equipment to set up a radio station at your local electronics store.
Of course, if you got "too powerful", US Senators wanted to make sure it is "regulated", and "fair", and "neutral"....

See how it turns out when the government is given the power to regulate free speech?

This is where Franken needs to look at history.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #106
129. Democracy was still alive when the Fairness Doctrine "regulated" free speech
ever since it became "free", we have got nothing but fascist propaganda. So your contention is wrong on its face.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #129
140. "fairness" doctrine be damned
you get facsist propaganda because that is what sells
no other reason
if not why was "air america" such a rousing victory?
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #140
151. Ah, jeez, I can't believe anyone still believes this shit
You are what's known as a self-hating Dem.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #129
165. You think the 70's were "fair"?
Wow.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
112. BS.
I don't know how to use many of the things you mention and I am considered by all of my family and friends to be the computer genius.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
122. For most of us it will.
Most of us can't 'work around' barriers and restrictions.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #36
149. "A free and open Internet will *never* go away" ?
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 11:23 AM by bvar22
"We did fine when we just had email, telnet, ftp, and usenet. We used Bulletin Board Systems."

In those days, we had to use the telephone system for access.
That was back before it was legal for ATT to spy on us.
"They" could shut that down in an instant today.

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Still Blue in PDX Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
168. I remember those days. Then came Compuserve and AOL . . . nt
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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Last I chwcked we control the Senate and WH
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. However, you're counting on Obama to protect you ... and Dem Party .... ???
Unfortunately, past history points to them protecting their own interests --

not ours.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #75
110.  My representative is very liberal, but he signed a letter supporting
Comcast's takeover of NBC -- after they gave him $10,000 in donations. I e-mailed him to ask him to explain why he did that. So far, no answer. Maybe I will call and mention Franken's speech. I think I deserve the courtesy of a response to my e-mail.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #60
123. But oddly enough
we always lose to a party that only has a majority in the House of Representatives.
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SocialistLez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. Couldn't they just stick it in some huge bill?
Just wondering.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. You must not have been here
when the 'Patriot Act' was passed. I remember many discussions over the broad, ill-defined terms. There were many discussions centered on the fact that hardly any one read the damn thing before it was voted on, about the lack of coverage by the whorporate media and the was no debate. About the only friend we had was Bill Moyers.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #74
86. Patriot Act was obviously written before 9/11 --
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lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #86
150. You aren't serious are you?
Sorry if I didn't understand implied sarcasm, but obviously, the Patriot Act was put into place right after 9/11 with little debate.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #150
169. it was put into place after 9/11
however, the trial run was after the OKC bombing. I remember it well. At that time Clinton was president with repugs controlling congress. I prayed it wouldn't pass--so much easier to pass with "foreign" entities involved in attacking us. Allow Americans to think that it couldn't happen to them-that the bill isn't about American rights. The Patriot Act was created before 9/11 just not enacted.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
77. Sadly, you're dreaming, I fear
we have tried peaceful means for 20 years, with the result that we are within a few short laws of becoming a totalitarian state. I don't say we HAVE to start fighting back, but if we don't we'll be slaves by mid-2014.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. We don't really
They tell the politicians what they want and politicians make it so. It does not matter if we assemble a quarter of a million people to protest as we did in Madison. They are still going to do whatever they want..Obama is not on our side so we are on our own...Unless we actually get out the torches and pitchforks and use them we don't stand a chance..
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
87. As long as they can continue to put THEIR people in office --
so far -- including assassinations, stolen elections and the success of rw propaganda --

they've been successful.

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. The rich people can buy as many congress members and men with guns as they want.
How do we stop that?
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Technological superiority
doesn't mean much against a numerically superior enemy that is determined to win at any cost and over any length of time. Lenin said something to the effect that the communists were for peaceful change because the government had guns and they didn't, but when they got guns they'd reassess their position.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. You mean to die for justice. They'll kill us with "foodstuffs" first. Or starve us. nt
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 04:51 PM by valerief
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. No. I mean win for justice.
People who fear death more than they love life cannot defeat people who love life more than they fear death, not in a contest of a thousand years.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
82. "The power of the powerless" as Vaclav Havel put it --
And we've seen that these long weeks of uprisings in Egypt and Libya, etal --

However, when you come up against someone as vicious as Kaddafi and no major

powers helping after arming him, it's at the best a stand still with many

martyrs and Kaddafi relentless.

Seemingly, no population yet has ever figured out to do with the few among us

who will be violent to get what they want.

But, I always did love the solution in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" --

a system that attacked anyone who was violent?

{Czechoslovakia)
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neoralme Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. In like kind or it won't be stopped. There's going to be a war. This
is why Bush reversed Posse Comitatus. And both the National Guard and the military will do just what they did at Kent State. It will be Chicago Democrat National Convention 1968 on steroids. I was there and remember it well.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
64. Take Away Their Money
and if that doesn't work, FRSP!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. Good luck with that
:eyes:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. It Happens, And More Often Than They Like To Remember
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
76. a grass roots Constitutional amendment to prohibit Corporate Campaign Contributions.. only private
citizens can contribute a limited amount. media, because the people own the air waves, will give
10, -whatever- "REAL DEBATES" -required broadcasts on all TV/radio stations.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE.!!:fistbump: :patriot:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
121. The FCC received
many signatures and petitions. However, they serve their corporate masters.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. The k and the r
Thank you, Al.

They want us to become their voiceless proles -- paying their taxes, mowing their lawns, buying and eating their soma, and otherwise staying stupid and silent.

Ptoooooey on Republiconism and it's anti-American agenda.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. And that would be different from the status quo how?
"They want us to become their voiceless proles -- paying their taxes, mowing their lawns, buying and eating their soma, and otherwise staying stupid and silent."

I grant you, some demonstrations, marches and the like have occurred now and then, most notably lately for single payer and publi option, but have been ignored and then the people go away quietly. Unless, maybe, Koch is footing the bill.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. There is no way that their Fascist takeover...
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 02:00 PM by CoffeeCat
...can work with a free and open Internet.

They have the mass media in their pocket. Now they just need to kill the Internet, which is
growing in power and impact. When news breaks--like the Japan earthquake, I didn't go to
CNN.com--which is what I would have done a year ago. I went to Twitter and Facebook, and I
was getting real-time news from people on the ground--witnesses. I think we're all tired
of getting packaged, biased propaganda stories and articles.

This is the problem for them with the Internet. I don't completely understand how they
would control it. Would free exchanges on DU be illegal? Would truth be deleted? They'd
also have to mess with the First Amendment and other rights that we have long enjoyed.

One thing is for sure--they will attempt to destroy it and they usually get their way.

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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Truth will be sucked into a cloud. Then banished.
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A wise Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Same for me.....
The TV MEDIA DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN WI. ALL WEEKEND. I HAD TO GO TO THE INTERNET TO GET THE LATEST. THEY WANT TO SILENT ALL "TRUTH" SO THAT THE MOST IGNORANT CAN SURVIVE IE (REPUBLICANS).
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. Democrat vs. Republicon is not the only paradigm, or Franken would not be saying, "It
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 04:59 PM by No Elephants
may already be too late."

Democrats controlled Congress from 2006-2010 and Congress +WH from January 2009 - January 2011.

Democrats are still in control of the Senate, where legislative change goes to get faux filibustered and die, and the Oval Office, where the veto pen sits.

If it's all about Republicans, why might it already be too late and why is Franken so alarmed and trying to rouse us non-office holding rabble?
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. re :I don't completely understand how they would control it.
My tech husband says it starts something like this: Comcast buys NBC (done) then helps connections to it's own NBC (and previously GE) interests but delays or deters connections to competing information for anyone using Comcast as their ISP. Then Verizon buys part then someone else and someone else... and they all do the same types of things. Then, one day (since it doesn't appear we have any more laws agains monopolies) one big conglomerate takes it all under the guise of simplification, or, perhaps even national security, and then there is control of information.

Having said that, he also agrees with the previous poster who said something about there always being a way around whatever 'they' try to set up as walls. There are just too many IT people who have the knowledge and the will to do it. And yes, that includes Anonymous, as yet another poster pointed out.

I guess it's going to be quite interesting to watch 'them' TRY but my gut tells me this is something that would awaken a global protest regarding information sharing.

We shall see...

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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. They aren't taking over, they are cashing out.
They don't need to take it over forever, just long enough so they can get the ill gotten gains out of the country.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
83. Al Franken is just delivering the message that they're going after the internet -- !!
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 09:47 PM by defendandprotect
Read Operation Mockingbird -- and realize how long ago that was!!

We have no "free press" --

They've been operating in lawless fashion at least since '63 -- and certainly

right up to and through 2000 --



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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
130. Lets not forget Twitter, E-Mail, Face-book and all of the other different
types of media that can be used to organize. If all else fails we can always go back to the old fashioned telephone trees.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Of course they are!!!
The Internet has shown itself to be a great avenue for peer-to-peer communication, causing disruptions in the status quo from Tunisia and Egypt to China to the good ol' USofA.

It threatens hierarchical control of information, which is the first line of defense for the current broken / morally bankrupt / corrupted societal structures.

If individuals are able to communicate freely through the Internet, why who knows what might happen? Workers on one side of the world will begin to understand how they are being exploited and will demand better lives for themselves. Citizens of repressive regimes will begin to understand how they are being lied to and manipulated, and will demand more say in their government. Citizens -- excuse me, consumers -- in the USA will begin to see how much their politicians have twisted terms and lied to them, aided and abetted by a media propaganda machine that is the envy of every true dictator in the world, its effectiveness multiplied by the fact that it can claim not to be government-controlled, therefore how can it be propaganda?

We must fight to keep the Internet freely available to all, and not sliced and diced in such a way that its usefulness as an organizing tool is compromised.

We must understand and actively use it while it is still available to us.

We must start to use encryption as part of our organizing strategy. I'm not up on the current systems available, but I do recall that PGP uses keyrings, i.e. non-hierarchical methods to assess trust. Unlike certificates and certifying organizations, where someone at the top gives their stamp of approval and trust flows down; with key rings, each of us decides who we trust, and we can also decide if we choose to trust someone who is trusted by someone we trust. In other words, another form of decentralization -- which is what we need right now, whether it be food production, energy, or information dissemination.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. They have to keep us ill informed. Pens and paper are next!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
84. No one gets my Hello Kitty journal...
No one!

:)

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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. KNR! n/t
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. With the GOP in charge, they will get it too.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. And then who'll sign it into law
under the guise of "National Security"??? :grr:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. Please see Reply 40.
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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. GENERAL STRIKE NOW! n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. Lots of luck with that.



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abqmufc Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. yes but,
it is either holding some hope in a mass movement (and being engaged in it) or putting a gun to my head. I've been unemployed for over a year...and I have no more hope. This is what keeps me living.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. In that case, I wholeheartedly believe a general strike is imminent.
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 06:22 PM by No Elephants
Sorry for your situation. Many very close to my heart are in the same boat, or worse.

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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. I believe him. There is no unrestrained public arena which private entities won't seek to
control - too much unclaimed power in that.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. May 2 is the date everything changes. Just heard on the radio
on the local news station. If you didn't listen carefully, you would miss it. The next day that will live in infamy.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
93. please elaborate
what are you referring to?
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
156. That's when caps on bandwidth start.
They're pretty modest for now, but I think it will get worse over time.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. for every isp?
i have the hated comcast. i hate it too, but the only other option is the equally hated ATT. :(
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. AT & T is starting the trend.
The cap is pretty high right now, but I expect that to change.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Y'all know that JPMorgen was involved in a large purchase of Twitter stock, right?
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
67. it's means investing in twitter looks to
have potential profit for those that invest.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
90. JP Morgan doesn't invest for profit, they invest for control --
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. All I can say is Thank Dog for Peer to Peer
If the net goes away, say hello to P2P networks springing up all over the world

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. you know what would be nice?
if those of you who are wise to the ways of internet access could start a thread that, in "layman's terms" explains the ways that people can override corporate internet access.

my first isp was a local company. it no longer exists.

what are options for people looking for other isps?

anyway, if someone would like to do this, it would be a great gen disc. thread to go with events currently in the works.

I don't use comcast at all. but a lot of people do. if they lost a lot of customers - like the people who pulled their money out of the bank in WI, that would be a way to vote with your dollars.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
61. Problem is the "fast" internet sources
Cable Modem, DLS, ISDN, etc are all through the big bells or the big cable companies.

Theoretically, however, a power company could start an ISP, provide fast access, and require no special lines be built within the house.

Some power companies are publicly owned, some aren't.

As for your layman's terms - what is it you want to know?

Ask me anything!
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #38
113. similar topic
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
50. You do know P2P networks operate over the Internet, right? (nt)
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Not all - you can host a network of your own if you want
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 06:42 PM by Taverner
IF you don't want your stuff on the internet, you CAN make your own network. And with wireless, you can set up peer to peer networks that are not linked to the internet.

Granted, it will suck, but it is what can be done if this shit passes.

Lemme put it this way - ever bring a laptop to a public place and do a wireless scan? You'll see some options where others have turned their laptops into wireless nodes (point to point)

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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #55
118. And what do you think those wireless nodes are generally connected to?
You're not going to be able to communicate over long distances just by daisychaining people's wireless cards together for thousands of miles. The net's not going away, but "P2P! Problem solved!" is an incredibly naive response to the possibility.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #118
142. Look - I didn't say it was going to be like it was before
But if one wireless node connects to another wireless node, and then another...you get the picture
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. Al Franken has put his finger on the pulse of the situation.


"Net neutrality, he added, is "the First Amendment issue of our time."



Thanks for the thread, kpete.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I don't see how we can stop this.
We have little or no representation in DC and we can't compete with their money.

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. The only way is for the people on the Internet whether left wing, right wing or
or anything in the middle to combine their efforts for this one issue.

Any politician opposing Net Neutrality must be forcefully challenged, any corporation or media outlet supporting the elimination of the people's First Amendment powers via neutering Net Neutrality to be strongly opposed whether by boycott, protest or via the courts.

Likewise political leaders and corporations supporting the fundamental Prime Directive of Net Neutrality should be strongly supported and if possible financed.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
97. But they won't
Any politician opposing Net Neutrality must be forcefully challenged, any corporation or media outlet supporting the elimination of the people's First Amendment powers via neutering Net Neutrality to be strongly opposed whether by boycott, protest or via the courts.

None of these work. the protests in Madison were basically for fun - accomplished little

Likewise political leaders and corporations supporting the fundamental Prime Directive of Net Neutrality should be strongly supported and if possible financed.

we don't have enough money to outspend the Koch brothers.

We really need to stop repeating the same bromides that have failed for 20 years. The fascists have shifted their paradigm. Countering with 19th-century dissidence is useless.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #97
144. I disagree re: the Madison protests, I believe they created a dynamic backlash synergy that will
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 10:41 AM by Uncle Joe
come to bite the Republicans in the ass during the next election, if not sooner.

I believe that was the most forceful union protest to take place going back to at least since Reagen crushed the air traffic controllers union, Madison is just a taste of what is to and needs to come, if progressive momentum is to shift back to the people.

The key point being the people must unite.

Even if every battle can't be won, there must be evidence of a rigorous opposition and fight, if not the corporate media will be left to write the script carte blanch on behalf of their corporate supremacist owners and supporters.

We don't need as much money, the Internet is becoming the great equalizer, especially insofar as advertising, getting the messages out, organizing and motivating the people are concerned, that's precisely why the corporate supremacists are attacking it.

As the Internet grows in number, power and influence it's developing an increasing ability to go around, over or through the corporate media corporate supremacist propaganda filter.

That corporate media corporate supremacist blinders propaganda machine is the greatest obstacle against the American Peoples' ability to recognize reality for what it is and the best solutions needed to address those very real problems.

If you have a better solution, please present it.

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Youth Uprising Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
101. I agree..
The problem is that right-wingers, especially uninformed, looney libertarians, believe that Net Neutrality equals big government control of the internet. Which is kind of ironic, since Net Neutrality is designed to prevent exactly that. Apparently, they think preventing ISPs from restricting your internet freedoms is "intrusive government". They also think preventing ISPs from restricting their freedoms is somehow restricting their freedoms... Wtf?
These people are fucking morons.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #101
109. "We're using government to protect you from government."
Net Neutrality, which gives government the power to regulate speech on private networks.... gee, what could go wrong with that?

I don't think I should have to abide by some US agency's rules on what websites I can see quickly, which spam I can drop, and which companies (and countries) have access to my personal computers, and the computers of my customers.
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Youth Uprising Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #109
143. Ever heard of checks and balances?
You don't think the government should self-regulate itself? The rest of your comment is nonsense.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #143
164. The "nonsense" is about letting me run my network the way I want to.
I don't want the FCC telling me I can't block popups because it's not "neutral" for a private network to do so.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #101
124. They only know what Fox News has told them.
And Fox told them that Net Neutrality was a takeover of the internet by Obama's communist government.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
102.  But, combine them how?
If we want better health care policy or to tax the rich by tens of percentage points, it doesn't seem to matter.

That's what I mean. We can't beg or buy representation.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #102
146. We have to reach out on this issue, I'm not talking about
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 10:35 AM by Uncle Joe
reaching out to the corporate supremacist overlords, they're beyond redemption, their Gods are money, power and monopoly.

I'm talking about reaching out to the average people on the other side, this even includes the Tea Partyers, reaching out with patient understanding and communication to enlighten as many as possible to how killing Net Neutrality works against their best interests as well, the issue of corporate supremacy must be brought home to them to counteract the long time brainwashing propaganda of "big government is the problem."

There must be an ongoing concerted effort to counter the corporate media; propaganda machine at every level on this, exposing their inherent conflict of interest.

Apparently there are some political leaders with the guts and integrity to protect the American Peoples' best interests by supporting Net Neutrality, I believe there are others as well and they should be vigorously supported.

As I mentioned on the above post, we may non win every political battle, but there must a serious fight for them and the corporate media must be called on the carpet 24/7 for their negligence and/or culpability.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #146
148. You have reminded me of the big coalition of all sides
that came together against one of the last attempts to consolidate the media -- remember that? MoveOn and the NRA? I don't remember the year, sometime around 2004 or so. That did make an impression on the Senate, which is pretty rare.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
85. President Obama will protect freedom of speech.
He'll veto any legislation that inhibits freedom of speech for the little guy. He said so, on the campaign trail. Oh!

http://act.boldprogressives.org/sign/sign_netneutrality_3things/
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. Exactly .....
the problem!!!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #91
125. That's why his opponents in
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 06:01 AM by Enthusiast
the presidential election were a doddering old fool and a brainless bimbo. My apologies to those that still cling to 'hope and change'.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #85
103. Promise me anything but give me Arpege.
:)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #85
114. LOL
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Franken is absolutely correct - He is NOT overstating, this is no joke!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. +1000% agree -- and the reality is the rw can't exist if truth is out there ...
the only way the rw can rise is via political violence, stolen elections and lies --

has always been thus --

and every pebble of truth is a threat to their myths --

Keep on tossin' those pebbles!!



:)
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
153. Great post - I like the power in the simplicity of your writing.
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 12:51 PM by LaPera
Republicans always say when their duplicity, lies, smears & distortions are ultimately exposed...."Well both parties do it" never addressing or acknowledging the actuality of the corrupt horrible actions that have always been republican constants. Republicans never accept responsibility they just point their shameless fingers and spew "the democrats do it too" as if this is suppose to justify the ugliness of their deeds.

However, I prefer to use the word "republican" instead, because every "rw" GOP, conservatives tea-baggers, right-winger, rightie all support republicans and all of them vote REPUBLICAN! - Republicans love to hide behind their different names to camouflage their lying, greedy hateful bullshit to the ignorant & uninformed.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. Of course they are. And ALEC is behind state legislatures' opposition to Net Neutrality.
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/tag/american-legislative-exchange-council/

American Legislative Exchange Council
The big political player you've never heard of
Posted by Fortune Editors
January 10, 2011 5:00 am

By Tory Newmyer, writer

Opponents of President Obama's health care overhaul landed a chin shot last month when a federal judge found the law's requirement that citizens buy health insurance unconstitutional. Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli argued that there was a conflict between a state law that made it illegal to force people to buy coverage and the new federal law.

But the Virginia law itself wasn't thought up in the Old Dominion. Rather, it was the product of a 2008 huddle in Washington. Conservative state legislators from across the country, along with industry lobbyists, hashed out the bill at the annual gathering of a little-known group called the American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC. The organization, founded in 1973 and funded mostly by corporations and conservative foundations, exists to bring business-friendly state lawmakers together with lobbyists for corporations, including AT&T (T), Exxon Mobil (XOM), Wal-Mart (WMT), and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ). It drafts model bills related to its goals of free markets and limited government. Issues that ALEC has influenced include Arizona's anti-immigration law, tort reform in Mississippi, and the opposition to Net neutrality.

Despite the intimate involvement of lobbyists, ALEC officials insist the organization is not a lobbying group, since it doesn't follow lawmakers to try to advance their bills. Instead, ALEC is a charity, a status it justifies because of its educational mission. The designation allows the group to collect tax-deductible contributions, and it eases lawmaker travel to ALEC events. Says Edwin Bender of the National Institute on Money in State Politics: "Corporations can implement their agendas very effectively using ALEC."

-snip-


Emphasis added.


ALEC's press release:

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=release_1

State Legislators Oppose FCC's Plans to Re-label and Regulate Internet

August 12, 2010


WASHINGTON, D.C. – The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) voices its opposition to plans by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to change the status of broadband Internet Service from a lightly-regulated “information service” to a more heavily regulated “telecommunications service.”

At its meeting late last week, ALEC’s Telecommunications & Information Technology Task Force approved its ALEC Broadband Regulation Resolution. The Resolution declares ALEC’s opposition to the FCC’s controversial plan to subject broadband Internet service to a handful of older monopoly-era telephone regulations.

Today the Resolution was delivered to the FCC along with a letter by Connecticut State Representative Bill Hamzy, who serves as Public Sector Chair of ALEC’s Telecom & IT Task Force. In the letter, the state legislator insists the agency should back off from its controversial plan to subject broadband Internet to heavier regulatory burdens.

“ALEC supports the continuation of federal policies that have kept the Internet free from government regulation. Marketplace freedom has encouraged the explosive growth of the Internet and e-commerce in recent years. It would be a grave mistake for the FCC to suddenly reverse course and saddle the Internet with burdensome new regulation. ALEC remains concerned that attempts by federal regulators to impose new restrictions on broadband Internet service will hurt technological innovation, deter private infrastructure investment, and threaten job growth in the states,” said Representative Hamzy.

As declared in the Resolution, “ALEC urges that the FCC, Congress and state regulatory and legislative bodies refocus their efforts on specific and limited initiatives targeted at ensuring that broadband service is made universally available and affordable to consumers, rejecting overly prescriptive regulations that would harm innovation, investment, and job growth.”

In January, over 90 other state legislators submitted a letter to the FCC opposing its plans to impose net neutrality regulation. In 2007, ALEC adopted a Resolution on Net Neutrality, opposing federal and state regulation of network management practices.



Common Cause lists ALEC as one of the "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing" for the telecom industry:

http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=1499059

and has this to say specifically about ALEC:

http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=1497709

Whether the issue is the environment, education or telecommunications, ALEC's modus operandi is the same. ALEC brings state lawmakers and "their private sector counterparts to the table as equals."<24> Corporate lawyers then assist in drafting "model" legislation that ALEC works to get passed in state legislatures. Mother Jones magazine characterized ALEC's work as "ghostwriting …business-friendly bills."<25>

ALEC has accepted contributions from many of the top telecom industry players: AT&T, BellSouth, the National Cable and Telecommunications Association, SBC Communications (now merged with AT&T), Sprint, Verizon Communications and more.<26>

In return, ALEC pushes telecom legislation that bars or makes it difficult for local governments to offer broadband Internet services to their citizens, even in areas where the telecom giants have determined it's not economically worthwhile to offer such service, such as rural and low-income areas (view ALEC's "model bill" online). ALEC has backed such bills in a number of states, including Louisiana,<27> Nebraska,<28> and Wisconsin.<29>
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. "It's Time for Us to Use the Internet to Save the Internet”
Published on Monday, March 14, 2011 by the Star Tribune (Minn.)
Sen. Al Franken: "It's Time for Us to Use the Internet to Save the Internet”
http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/117941679.html

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. k/r
:kick:
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. "In the end, the American people will end up paying a lot more for worse service."

I'm already paying way too much for inferior service, thank you very much Comcast.

When I talk to European colleagues they can't believe how much we pay for cell phone and internet, and how crappy our service is compared to theirs. Thank the Publicans and their corporate masters again.


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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. 30 euros a month in france gets you a ground line
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 05:53 PM by reggie the dog
with free local calls to groundlines, free calls to over 80 countries, internet in the 5mb per second range, and about 50 tv stations that i never watch. on edit my 5mb speed is very very slow for here in france but i live out in the countryside in the foothills surrounded by pine trees, almond tress, olive trees and even some grapes and am pretty much at the end of the line coming from the nearest town
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patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #48
105. my guess is their providers don't have....
"verbal contracts" like they do here, which charge a fee for early termination.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #105
116. i know that i have a written contract with my provider
and i am nailed with a 2 months fee if i terminate before a year goes by.
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patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #116
158. I was charged 180 bucks due to my "early" termination fee,
supposedly agreed to in a "verbal contract" over the phone. This never happened, because I had never planned on needing two years of service and would never have agreed to that; verbal or written... anywho long story short,fought it and won. (they couldn't come up with the phone recording)

this trend of locking people into services is alarming, i know phone companies do it too, smacks of feudalism in my mind.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #158
160. ours was written
and in the 60 euro range
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
68. i think the size of our country
how spread out people and cities can be that play a part of in the expense of planning, building, repairing, maintaining, and upgrading services.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
126. The fascists will get around to Europe.
They have big plans for Europe.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. If we lose the Internet...
We lose...period.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well, look at what the protesters in Egypt and Libya have done --
the elite know the threat of that!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. Could happen ... remember what you learned on internet -- we're all alike ... it's a liberal nation!
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. jesus! recommended!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. what a wonderful person this senator is! we need to clone him. You go Al!
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Corruption Winz Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
46. A "war against the internet" will go like the "war on drugs"....
It will only make smarter "criminals." If anything, I look forward to an even more advanced Internet experience.
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
51. I'm glad he's on top of this, and he's absolutely right.
Hope he can make this message clear to the whole country!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
52. the Tax Payers paid for the creation of the internet
it is not something that the rich should have any control over. The fucking greedy son of a bitches bitch about paying taxes then they TAKE from the commons because of the pathetic and corrupt running our government.
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
71. it would still essentially be arpanet
with email, usenet, ftp, and vastly inferior world wide web on much slower and much more expensive connections than we have now without the help of bigger business. I for one would rather not pay the modern equivalent of the cost of a T1 back in the day like I used to do.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
127. Ohio Governor John Kasich
just announced part of his plan to correct state budget shortfalls. He plans to privatize five state prisons. Just another example.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. Franken is nuts on this.
Just plain nuts.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
152. You don't know what net neutrality is?
Is that what you just said?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
58. HUGE K & R !!!
:mad:

:kick:
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
62. additional information about net neutrality
_________
Al Franken describes a world without net neutrality
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x561952
________
Senator Franken: The Biggest Issue Since Freedom of Religion
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x561610
_________
Countdown with Keith Olbermann: The Future of Broadband and Internet Access
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x562231
_________
Net Neutrality Republicans Have Been Bought by Cable Companies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x556670
_________
S02E05 - Net Neutrality, H.R. 96 and 166
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x558658
________
House Panel Votes to Kill Net Neutrality
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x561565
_________
Net Neutrality: Predictable Republican Corruption Reaches New Heights
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x563091
_________
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
63. Remembers hours arguments in grad school about how we did not need the equal time laws to
preserve election fairness any more because of the internet. Wonders if any of the people I argued with have wise up yet.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
65. Preach on Al, preach on.
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
66. I'm just not sure here
What's the difference between now and like 10 years ago? It's basically the same ISPs, the same tech companies, the same backbone owners that run, manage, and control traffic on the internet.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
69. yikes!...."They're coming after the Internet..."
....maybe if we're really really nice to the Republicons, they won't be mean to us....
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
70. It's impossible for them to control the internet
Edited on Mon Mar-14-11 08:48 PM by Hutzpa
all you have to do is hack their fuckin' towers and it's game over for them. (corporate)
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
99. Oh yeah. Doesn't china control its internet? Their filters are 100% effective nt
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
72. He warned us last summer about the comcast deal.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
81. Hackers will fuck anyone up beyond repair who tries to mess with NN.
And really, so might the people.

Yeah, take away the free speech of the internet, Oligarchs. Smart move, really.

I guarandamnTEE at least three of you will be dragged through the streets for real.

Corporate McPravda notwithstanding, I don't think the USA is heading toward a larger scale Ceaucescu Romania, as much as the Oligarchs would love that (you know, minus all the child AIDS cases).
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. It would be nice if we could stop the bad guys LEGALLY. eom
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Kind of reminds me of this situation -
"How many weeks notice should I give my employer that I'm leaving?"

"Well, how much notice would they give YOU?"

Corporations are allowed to pretty much do and get away with whatever they damned well please. Like buying political parties, bundling shit mortgages in AAA packages, influencing political agenda to their advantage, hold governmental offices, influence national elections, have a say in armed conflicts, profiteer off of human razing. Those kinds of things.

They shouldn't really be surprised when people with nothing at all to lose will eventually fight back, legally or otherwise.
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BillyJack Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
92. K and ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH
This IS the big issue of "our time"!!!!!!

Don't miss it. Don't BLINK.

MAKE SURE that your friends, relatives, co-workers, check-out clerks at the grocery, anyone & everyone that you come in contact with, that EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THIS!!!!

Make sure you understand it WELL yourself.
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
94. K&R
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
95. k/r for net neutrality
:kick:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
96. Where does our Pres stand on this issue?? nm
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. off to the side, of course
still hoping to court enough fascists to get re-elected, then retire in 2017 to get rich off of speeches
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #98
108. Yup. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
100. Dear Al:
They have been after it for a couple of years now. Glad your eyes are now open. They have no limit on what they want to take. Didn't you get the message when you were first elected? Now you go Al and help us fight, harder faster Al!
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
104. Just watched "The Shock Doctrine" tonight. ... And YES, this is the right thread!
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 12:01 AM by Bozita
Naomi Klein was spot on.

It was on Sundance.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
107. Dear Senator Franken:
1. If the government can be controlled by business interests
AND
2. The government can regulate the internet

What do you think the outcome will be?

Please stop working against a free internet.

Thank You.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #107
166. You would rather throw us from the frying pan from which the people have a handle on, into the fire.
If the government doesn't enforce equal rules aka; Net Neutrality what do believe the "business interests" will do to the peoples' ability to use the Internet?

Net Neutrality is the free internet, you would argue for corporate supremacy over the people.
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aikanae Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
115. Dem's are owned by RIAA and MPAA
Do you think they want net neutrality? Look at what happened to pay-for-play radio or "free tv". There is no public access cable channel where I live (in the 5th largest US city) and there is no competition for cable. Comcast has wanted to cap cable use to about 1 movie / week from Netflix and still charge $50 a month. That came out when they were fined for slowing cable down for suspected torrent users (and there are plenty of applications for legal torrents).

It's still highly dangerous for someone in China to get around their censorship and the only reason they can get around it is because of people in the US helping them (not corporations though - they helped China set up the censorship).

Democrats have invested nothing into media. There's no contest for the GOP. Remember,

Comcast bought MSNBC. The only station that mentioned the possibity of fraudulant poll numbers and elections was MSNBC.
FAUX bought WSJ.
Air America had their advertisers threatened.
An article on KOS showed some were developing "bots" that had "personalities", email addresses, location that could consistantly flood message boards with sound bites.
There are still a lot of people without access to the internet, which is shameful if the US consider's itself to be technology advanced. We'll never see phones on the asian markets because the US is so far behind - and that's who they want to turn the internet over too?
They turned WiFi over to telecom's and ... they have done little with it.

What is left? We'll be posting illegal pirate radio on our rooftops.
Franken shouldn't be the only one raising this issue.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #115
119. Bingo.
Sadly, Franken is with the Dems, who are owned by the RIAA and MPAA.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
117. K&R
He is absolutely right. We need to find a way to fight this and keep the 'net from becoming another propaganda machine that sucks the life out of us like the rest of the communications mediums have become. The 'net is our last hope for any freedom in a supposedly free country. Sad. :(
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
120. Why wouldn't the right wing
destroy the internet as they have everything else? They would damage this medium for short term gain.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #120
138. The RW isn't the big worry
I think the Obama White House is a bigger concern. The ferocity with which Obama is fighting against Wikileaks and whisleblowers shows where he stands when it comes to openness and transparency.
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Lastactiongyro Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
131. Agree its just a matter of time
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Chalco Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
132. So, the internet helped promote democracy in the Middle East...
then, let's take away the internet in the West so we have less democracy.

The internet threatens dictatorships. I guess the powers that be in the U.S. want to
move toward dictatorship.

Slip, slipping, away.

But, we're the best, right?
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Harriety Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
133. Al's fighting hard for our internet freedom
I watched Sen. Franken's interview yesterday, and I finally got it. Before when net neutrality was explained to me the facts got jumbled up in my head so much that I didn't realize how important this really was. I do now. It would be the end of the free internet as we know it and the rich guys would win again. They ARE trying to take over everything...
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
134. K&R
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BEZERKO Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
136. Go Senator Pete Tagliani!
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BEZERKO Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
137. Solidarity forever,
And the Union makes us strong!
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
141. The internet has served as a safety valve
that has allowed people to vent and express themselves to each other, representatives, and the world, and to take this away would not be wise. If they want to see people erupt, then yea limit the way we can express ourselves and see how that works.

Limiting internet access to sites such as this one would slow our discourse, and perhaps create an obstacle to many people being able to log on, who knows. I think we should be talking some strategy about alternative means of communication around here. I cannot see the internet impeded permanently, but it is quiet possible we may go through a crisis period until things return to the way we want it again, these bastards have the means.

If the internet goes down, watch the numbers of people hit the streets then!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
145. deleted
Edited on Tue Mar-15-11 10:23 AM by NashVegas
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
147. And Franken's right.

And its a fight I'm very afraid we'll lose unless something earthshaking happens. People just don't understand, and petitions and lobbying alone are not going to win the fight for net neutrality.
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japple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
154. They'll have to pry my keyboard out of my cold, dead hands...
eom
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feslen Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
155. Al Franken should be our next president
he's standing up for what's right...

would it be so shocking if they Nazied-up the Nets?
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
161. kick! nt
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-15-11 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
162. Yet Franken loves the Patriot Act
What's wrong with this picture?
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-16-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
167. Kick.
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