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Radiation1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima plant: IAEA

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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:48 PM
Original message
Radiation1,600 times normal level 20 km from Fukushima plant: IAEA
Source: Kyodo News

VIENNA, March 22, Kyodo

Radiation 1,600 times higher than normal levels has been detected in an area about 20 kilometers from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, International Atomic Energy Agency officials said Monday.

Data collected by an IAEA team show that radiation levels of 161 microsievert per hour have been detected in the town of Namie, Fukushima Prefecture, the officials said.

Read more: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80057.html



So far no plans to expand evacuation zone near nuke plant.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rug-Roh. Nt
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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I've seen reports today on TV that say things are "stabilizing", yet the US is pulling
the George Washington out and is considering mandatory evacuations of troops?

The information on this disaster is totally schizophrenic.
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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. It's a nuclear-powered vessel
Have you ever had a smoke/carbon monoxide detector malfunction and go off continuously?

Every monitoring system aboard that ship is going off, and the George Washington certainly can't turn them off. Unless they get into a clearer zone, their own safety measures won't work.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. "The information on this disaster is totally schizophrenic."
A rather concise summary of the news situation here.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. My neighbor said this to me today
'It's all over for Japan. The country is so small it will be uninhabitable for the next 50 or more years'.

Anyone else think this or heard anything. I asked where she heard that, she said it was just her own belief based that Japan is the size of CA with 4 times the amount of people.

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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. We moved a naval ship from a base that is south of Tokyo, so I would say that contamination
worries are far spread.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. U.S. military is considering mandatory evacuation of thousands of American troops & their families..
in Japan out of concern over rising radiation levels, a senior defense official tells CNN.

The official, who did not want to be on the record talking about ongoing deliberations, says there are no discussions to evacuate all U.S. troops across the country. The talks have focused exclusively on U.S. troops in Yokosuka, just south of Tokyo, the official said. Yokosuka is home to America's largest naval base in Japan. The military is monitoring radiation levels on a constant basis.

As of Monday, the U.S. Navy had no more warships in port at the base. The aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which had been undergoing maintenance in Yokosuka, left port Monday in order to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the base. Because it left port with a much smaller than normal crew, the George Washington will not take part in the Japanese relief effort.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4782141
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. she probably reads DU.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. lol no but, she is a Dem - just
doesn't have the fire in the belly.

I've moved further left. Way left, since joing DU. Friends have noticed. I'm ok with it :evilgrin:

:hi: Hannah Bell

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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. It's probably just a guess.
My guess would be different, in a way. Prevailing winds will carry much of the worst fallout to sea, but since Japan relies so heavily upon locally harvested seafood, that's going to be a major problem, too. I'm not real happy with the seawater cooling expedient, as seawater contains plenty of calcites and heavy metals which can be irradiated in the cooling process, then it's sure to be accidentally (or intentionally) released into the open water. Recall that industrialists always prefer dilution to solution, because it's always cheaper.

I still don't understand why reactors such as these do not have pre-made meltdown shafts built under the reactors, so that in a crisis such as this, the rods will melt their way down into a hole which can be covered with about 40 feet of concrete. Maybe it's because it's right on the shoreline and the water table is too high to build a watertight shaft.

Whatever the case, my limited understanding of the subject suggests that containment and cleanup is going to be a major problem, but not insurmountable, especially not to the Japanese who unfortunately for them are the world's finest authority on cleaning up after atomic disaster. This one won't be nearly as much of a problem as the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; both cities overcame their radiation and devastation problems within a few decades, without the problem spreading to the rest of the populace.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. You made a good point.
I hadn't thought about this, 'Hiroshima and Nagasaki; both cities overcame their radiation and devastation problems within a few decades, without the problem spreading to the rest of the populace'.

There is hope for Japan. Now I hope that we as a nation will take this as a warning and completely abandon nuclear energy and focus on wind and solar. Yes, we can. Now I expect to be jumped by those who still believe we can play Russian Roulette.
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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. It is not true
That the country will be uninhabitable, I mean. In most parts of Japan, radiation levels are at normal background. The closer you get to the Daiichi plant, the higher the levels (big surprise!).

Japan will have some levels of localized contamination. It may be that seafood off a portion of the west coast will be too radiation-loaded for consumption for a time. It is likely that net soil and water contamination levels up to around 80 km distant will mean that food from there should be avoided for a time, and closer to the plant maybe for a few years to be cautious.

Right now, this is a localized problem. We will know more in a few days.

My hunch is that no shellfish for about 180 km off Daiichi should be eaten for at least a year. So far the Japanese have kept contamination levels at the Tokyo area very low indeed.

It's too soon to tell what the net effects will be, but data shows that effects on human health should be pretty localized.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. Did dropping 2 nuclear bombs, one of which used a plutonium core, make Japan uninhabitable?
While I'm sure we'll eventually see this reactor entombed and a quarantine zone established just like in Chernobyl, saying the ENTIRE country will be uninhabitable is a bit much. Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mostly repopulated within a decade or so after WWII, despite lingering radiation levels.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Japan reported only 12µSv 4 hours ago at Namie
Some kind of anomaly. Radiation leaking at Fukushima Daini? (4km away) :scared:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Not only is Japan not posting new data for Namie
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. i don't even see a station at namie. and it looks like it's inside the 20 km zone, at least on
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 05:24 AM by Hannah Bell
their map.

i place it at the junction of the two yellow lines above the green label for fukushima daiichi, below minamisoma (station 80) on the map on page 6.

http://www.mext.go.jp/component/english/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2011/03/20/1303972_2019.pdf

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=namie+japan&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tlif130078551552510&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

closest station would then be minamisoma (3.4 microsievert/hr reading on the 20th on my version, 2.8 on the 21st on your version) or station 34 (25 uSv/hr on the 20th, 24 on the 21st.).

if i've identified the location correctly.

edit: there;s some discrepancy between the stations in the two versions i see; 80 is minamisoma on both but 34 looks like a different location.



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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R


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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Australia
was smart to stay out of this business.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Between.....
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 01:11 AM by DeSwiss
...solar, tidal wave, hydro-electric, geothermal and wind power that is available to everyone on this planet -- no one has a need for nuclear power. At all. The U.S. alone has more geothermal capacity than any other country in the world, with more than 3,000 megawatts in eight states (http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/technology_and_impacts/energy_technologies/how-geothermal-energy-works.html">link).

And new "Enhanced Geothermal" technology promises to increase the available underground heating resources even further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6r_3AgI49Y&feature=related">Our current Secretary of Energy used to be a great proponent of geothermal energy. Well he was, until he became Secretary of Energy that is. But the main problem with all of the above named resources replacing the current one's in use is that no one can sell them to us because they can't be "owned." Which is a problem in a world addicted to Capitalism.

The infrastructure that would be used to deliver power from such resources are best owned by governmental units, non-profits and utility cooperatives in order to insure that they are operated at peak efficiency, safety and cost-effectiveness at all times. With no profits going to any entities since energy is a life necessity. Which is why we don't have these resources to much extent. However, we must at some point come to understand that our "so-called leaders" (and certainly not TPTB) are going to change from the current utility/energy paradigm of their own volition. We have to make our leaders change.

- And if they won't then we must replace these corrupted/defective leaders or failing that, do it for ourselves and the planet and just unplug ourselves from the grid.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Best solution for independence is off the grid. Doesn't get any press, but it's happening.
Media generated hysteria by the old energy shills, presented to us on so many levels, is just the guys who own the old stuff trying to hang on and keep their power and cash flow.

With sufficient information, we find that we don't need them and aren't as frightened of them. And they know it. We're listening to the last howls of a dying system.

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. well said
:fistbump:
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Truth will eventually be set free.
And :wtf: is this "no plans to evacuate" insanity?
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. If that level remained constant...
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 12:23 AM by PoliticAverse
at 161 microseverts you'd get in a year:

161 microsieverts/hour * 24 hours/day * 365 days/year = 1,410,360 microsieverts/year = 1,410 millisieverts/year = 1.410 Sieverts/year.

To put that in perspective:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

See:
http://twitpic.com/49mm4l

And:


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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. That would put one in the red?
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 12:27 AM by Rex
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes.
You don't want to remain in a place with those levels for an extended period of time.

Hopefully those high levels are only temporary.



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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Yes, but it hasn't
In any case, most people are exposed to more than 1.6 milliS in a year. That level of exposure would not be expected to cause human health effects.

Now what would cause human health effects might be much higher contamination levels in food. It's too soon to tell how contaminated the local food supply will be. So far testing hasn't shown much effect, but they don't have enough data to know and the emissions will not be resolved very quickly. They are coming down, but there's really quite a lot of the stuff in the atmosphere.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. this thing is 100's of times worse than Cherenobyl...50/60 more tons of fuel rods involved and
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 06:01 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
it will poison the Pacific Ocean and go global ....where Cherenobyl was landlocked
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. U.S. military is considering mandatory evacuation of thousands of American troops & their famiies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4782141

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. military is considering the mandatory evacuation of thousands of American troops and their families in Japan out of concern over rising radiation levels, a senior defense official tells CNN.

The official, who did not want to be on the record talking about ongoing deliberations, says there are no discussions to evacuate all U.S. troops across the country. The talks have focused exclusively on U.S. troops in Yokosuka, just south of Tokyo, the official said. Yokosuka is home to America's largest naval base in Japan. The military is monitoring radiation levels on a constant basis.

As of Monday, the U.S. Navy had no more warships in port at the base. The aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which had been undergoing maintenance in Yokosuka, left port Monday in order to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the base. Because it left port with a much smaller than normal crew, the George Washington will not take part in the Japanese relief effort.

The official said the talks originated with Pacific Command, the military authority that directly oversees U.S. troops in the region, but "discussions have since taken place here in Washington as well."

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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. That's nonsense
Most of the fuel rods involved are spent. The total level of radiation emitted is hugely less than Chernobyl.

Not that I am saying it is innocuous.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. The fuel rods in No. 4 are fresh, not spent, just there due to fixes being done in No. 4
Nice and fresh and active, and possibly on fire now and then
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. You have it backwards. Fresh fuel rods would be BETTER than spent ones in this situation
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 04:24 PM by NickB79
Fresh fuel rods don't have all the highly toxic, accumulated fission byproducts that spent ones would have that worry health experts so much, like iodine, strontium and cesium. These radioactive isotopes only form as the fuel rods operate inside the reactor and the uranium decays. Once their levels build up to a certain point, they poison the fission reaction and necessitate the replacement of the rods.

If you had to have a reactor melt down, you want it to happen with fresh fuel rods rather than spent ones.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. you don't know what you're talking about
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BrookBrew Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. The only thing to FEAR
fear itself. Do you know how many nuclear reactors were just dumped in the ocean. Read up on where the USSR dumped them.

Here is another interesting topic. Dont believe the hype.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/22/fukushima_tuesday_2/
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. Yeah, but if things had been mishandled, it would have been worse.
:sarcasm:
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BrookBrew Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I heard people live in Hiroshima
I wonder how many times normal it was in 1946. My bet, more than 1600.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Plus, think of all the people who survived the plague in the middle ages
Which proves that bubonic plague isn't that big a deal.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. (FYI) 20 kilometers is about 12.5 miles.
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reorg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
37. Restoration work at Fukushima nuke plant faces challenges
TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo

Work to restore power and vital cooling functions at the troubled reactors of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant stricken by the March 11 powerful quake and tsunami has encountered difficulties, such as a rise in a reactor's temperature and detection of high-level radiation, the government's nuclear agency said Wednesday.

All six reactors at the crisis-hit plant were reconnected to external power as of Tuesday night. Despite the positive move, the temperature in the No. 1 reactor vessel briefly topped 400 C degrees, requiring large amounts of seawater injected into the reactor to cool it down, according to the agency.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said high-level radiation amounting to 500 millisievert per hour was detected at the No. 2 reactor's turbine building a couple of days ago, which is preventing workers from trying to restore electricity at a control room.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80389.html


And the latest: Tokyo gov't advises that infants refrain from drinking tap water.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. All part of the free market system can fix anything/God's miracle plan?
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