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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:44 PM
Original message
Storms knock out TVA nuclear units, power lines
Source: Reuters

Severe storms and tornadoes moving through the Southeast dealt a severe blow to the Tennessee Valley Authority on Wednesday, causing three nuclear reactors in Alabama to shut and knocking out 11 high-voltage power lines, the utility and regulators said.

All three units at TVA's 3,274-megawatt Browns Ferry nuclear plant in Alabama tripped about 5:30 EDT (2230 GMT) after losing outside power to the plant, a spokesman for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Agency said.

The NRC spokesman said early information indicated the units shut normally and the plant's diesel generators started up to supply power for the plant's safety system.

The government owned corporation said crews were working to restore service, but more severe weather was forecast, TVA said in a release. Most of the damage so far has occurred in the western part of TVA's service territory in Mississippi, Alabama and western Tennessee and Kentucky.



Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/27/us-utilities-tva-storms-idUSTRE73Q98920110427?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&dlvrit=60573
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forty6 Donating Member (849 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. We couldn't possibly have predicted this....I'm going to hear them
saying, tomorrow.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. "Japan's nuclear plants can't keep reactors cool", The New Scientist
The backup electricity generators at many of Japan's nuclear power stations lack the capacity to keep reactor cores cool if another earthquake and/or tsunami strikes. So say sources at Japan's electricity utilities who have been comparing the power capacity of the backup generators available against that needed to keep reactors safe from thermal runaway and meltdown...

So Japan's nuclear regulator NISA has urged the nation's 11 nuclear plant operators to deploy extra truck-mounted generators on higher ground, where a tsunami won't swamp them, allowing power to be fed to the reactor cooling systems via heavy-duty waterproof cables.

But today Japan's Kyodo news agency quotes unnamed sources within various nuclear utilities saying that the power these, and existing, backups can provide is just not enough. At Hamaoka, a plant critically straddling a quake-vulnerable subduction zone, Chubu Electric Power's nine newly deployed diesel generators lack the power to cool the five reactors. That means there will be a delay in getting enough backup power until three extra gas turbine-powered generators can be acquired and safely positioned...

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/04/the-back-upelectricitygenerato.html



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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Most likely, the shutdowns went OK.
If the generators are on, things should be alright. It's going to be a huge mess tomorrow, though, and they'll probably need fresh fuel for the backup generators.

This is an awful storm.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Delete
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 07:51 PM by Recursion
Wrong thread
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why do these plants not supply power to themselves?
Just curious. Seems odd they would be so reliant to outside power.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They have to be kept cool when they are shut down.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Older designs. Apparently the newer passive designs don't rely on outside power.
Keep in mind that nuclear plants need to be shut down from time to time so they aren't producing any power at that point.

They do have their own power source... the diesel generators.
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RantinRavin Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Wrong voltage
The voltage leaving the generator is about 30,000 volts, while the pumps need 460 volts.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. If that were the case, they could step the voltage down on-site.
But the turbines don't spin when the reactor is scrammed for the duration of the emergency.
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Nope, loss of load causes a generator trip.
The pumps are 4160 VAC and higher by the way.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. When the reactors trip for an emergency, the cores are scrammed and produce
no generating capacity. Just lots of waste heat from radioactive decay. They can't power the turbines with the reactor in that condition.

It would be irresponsible to keep the cores online and generating power in such a situation.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. That would seem to indicate a need for backup power
But I still dont understand why they are reliant on outside power seemingly all the time.

Thanks for the answers though
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think it's an indicator like a threat level.
So if outside power is cut, and ONLY generator capacity is available, the situation is immediately raised to an 'emergency' and the cores are taken offline. With external power, you have redundancy in backup power options. Lose external power, and now you ONLY have (multiple) diesel generators for backup power (and short life batteries).

Since the backup options are restricted, the plant is taken offline.
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. There was a whole discussion on this the other weekend
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 10:27 PM by Throckmorton
Same thing happened to the Surry Plant in Virgina.

The discussion was in the Environmental Board.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x288651

I hope I did that right.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. We need to keep up on this...not good. Never seen stuff like these tornadoes and storms..
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 09:20 PM by KoKo
that all of us are dealing with these days. It's truly something new. And, none of us across the USA, should feel we are above some vulnerability to these climatic events.

The Japanese were "Masters of the Universe" in the 1990's. Look at what's happened to their country...and all of us need to keep on top of things that our Mainstream Media might not always want us to keep on top of.
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Doesn't it seem like the Wrath of God is upon us ?
With all these extreme weather related occurrences, maybe there really is a God and he's looking pretty pissed off lately.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Correlation/causation.
I find the idea of AGW a lot more justifiable by the facts at hand, than a deity.
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TatonkaJames Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I meditate to The Universe
I left the church in 1974, so I wouldn't know about the many Gods religions flout about.
It was more a rhetorical post. :-)
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. this is a HUGE issue - tip of the iceberg since the E. Coast grid is interlocked
If something interrupts grid for a long time --- and the grid is old and decrepit---power could be out at nuke stations with no water pumping over spent fuel rods in those storage pools and elsewhere...I've been concerned about this for a long time.
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Great Blackout of 2003 came close to taking it all down
But, there have been a lot of improvements in protective schemes since then. A lot of money has been spent improving the grid since then as well.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. Good Job! Plants did exactly what they are supposed to do
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Only because the diesel generators weren't flooded as happened in Japan.
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Left coast liberal Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Mother nature is really pissed off at us!
:-(
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