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Retired Air Force general: No easy Iraq solution in sight (May need draft)

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NNN0LHI

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Tue Apr-13-04 08:48 AM
Original message

Retired Air Force general: No easy Iraq solution in sight (May need draft)

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2004/04/13/news/community/tue02.txt

U.S. troops will be in Iraq for a long time to come, according to retired Gen. Merrill "Tony" McPeak. Plans for getting them home and re-establishing Iraq as an independent nation may prove ellusive as well as unpopular.

"The fact is, I don't have any good ideas how to get us out," McPeak told more than 100 people gathered Monday at the Majestic Theatre. "I haven't heard a single good idea from anyone how to get us out. I think we're stuck � with no exit strategy to get us out." snip

"This administration will not be able to get us out, so the first requirement is to get this administration out," McPeak said to applause. "The new president will be stuck, too. (John) Kerry is not coming up with any good ideas. � (Howard) Dean didn't have any.

"There's just a chance following a regime change in Washington to increase over time international involvement and legitimize what we're trying to do there."

Not all of McPeak's ideas were received as well. While his proposals to not set a certain date for turning over control of Iraq and raising taxes to pay for the war met with muted applause, his idea to restart the draft system met with a few hisses from the audience.

more

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gasperc

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message

1. "I think we are stuck..."

doesn't that just stick in your fucking mouth like a whole jar of fucking peanut butter.

If the strawman in the WH only had a brain!

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Loonman

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:05 AM
Response to Original message

2. We are stuck

The Vulcans tried to fight it on the cheap.

This is the fallout.

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Just Me

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Tue Apr-13-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2

27. No one will persuade me that we're stuck.

No one. There is always a solution. Always.

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saigon68

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message

3. McPeak is a Whack Job

His claim to fame is the "New" Air Force Uniform.

He has a large following too /</NOT> "McPeak told more than 100 people "

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hang a left

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #3

5. You don't think that this will be the thrust?

"There's just a chance following a regime change in Washington to increase over time international involvement and legitimize what we're trying to do there."

I see it as how it will be sold to the American public. A new administration will be able to fix it. But some of us think that ain't gonna happen.

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NNN0LHI

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5

6. With Bush we KNOW it ain't going to happen. So whats our options? n/t

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hang a left

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Tue Apr-13-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #6

9. I am in agreement here.

Optionless.

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Zhade

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Tue Apr-13-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6

19. "So whats our options?" Good question.

Suppose Kerry wins. Suppose we get the war criminals out of the White House without bloodshed (not a given).

Suppose Kerry wants a draft.

I'm not saying he does, and I'm not saying he doesn't. But just suppose he does call for a draft. What then?

We should prepare for the possibility of a draft, regardless of who wins. Much better to be ready and find the preparations unnecessary than to be caught unaware.

What will we do if Kerry wins and he calls for a draft?

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callous taoboy

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Tue Apr-13-04 09:39 AM
Response to Original message

4. 4 retired generals

were saying the same thing on Lehrer the other night.

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daleo

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Tue Apr-13-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message

7. In the end, I think they will put Saddam's guys back in

Pull out the 'coalition' troops, and hope for the best. Then the neo-cons will blame the world for not cooperating with their brilliant vision.

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tlcandie

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Tue Apr-13-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message

8. Send all those who voted for the damned war over there along with

Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 10:55 AM by tlcandie

their families... how many will that get us in warm bodies? This includes ALL of the willing and bought coalition countries!

EDIT: Then maybe...if they survive...they will think a bit longer about saying YES to war in the future!

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AGD4y2357y

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Tue Apr-13-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #8

28. "willing" coalition countries?

You do realize most of those "willing" nations had major citizen opposition to this invasion don't you?

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Teaser

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message

10. There really is no solution to the mess.

Seriously, if we just bolt now we will have succeeded in creating another failed state and terrorist haven, like Afghanistan.

If we stay, it will be to us like Algeria was to the French, or Lebanon was to Israel. An ugly situation with lots of dead for no real reason.

This is the Kobayashi-Maru simulation from Star Trek II, the Wrath of Khan, but in real life and with live ammo.

The only thing I can think to do is punish the bastards who got us into this.

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54anickel

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message

11. We are "stuck" by design. This admin had no intentions of ever

Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 11:15 AM by 54anickel

leaving, and no intention of building a truly sovereign nation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1189904,00.html

The US does not intend to leave Iraq. The coalition headquarters is to become an American embassy with a staff of 3,000 officials, the largest American diplomatic station in the world.

Washington expects to maintain permanent military bases in the country (one of the motives for the invasion), garrisoned by as many as 100,000 troops, and to supervise Iraq's provisional government and the new one to be elected. The latter is expected to be a close ally of the US and provide its strategic base in the region.

To say this is not to make a polemical or conspiratorial interpretation of what is happening. All of this is on the public record. American plans are widely discussed and American intentions generally acknowledged by the officials involved.

A sovereign government by definition possesses a monopoly of armed forces within its frontiers and is in complete control of its economy, resources, and foreign relations. None of this would be true for the Iraqi government now projected.

more...

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bemildred

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message

12. What crap.

Negotiate an orderly exit and get the Hell out.
How easy is that?
The only honor and legitimacy there is to be had in this
mess lies in that direction.

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leftchick

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #12

13. totally agree bemildred....

I hope that is what JK has in mind.

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bemildred

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Tue Apr-13-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13

17. I'm wondering about that.

Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 03:11 PM by bemildred

I would expect Kerry to play Nixon to Shrub's LBJ here,
but the Kerry has signs of intelligence and independence
in his background and the situation is bad enough in enough
different ways that he might decide to cut our losses, if
he thinks he can get aways with it politically, and especially
if he can pin the failure on the Repubs. The dick-waving
imperative rules in American politics, and that is the danger.

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belle

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Tue Apr-13-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #17

20. He's talked about reaching out anew to the U.N...

which I'm sure he'll try, and it's a start. It's kind of late in the game for anything like that, though. I don't think he'll be able to get the Iraqis to trust us or pretty much anyone again. At minimum he might be able to re-establish ties and trust with the rest of the world (who hopefully will not blame him for his predecessor's mistakes) and at least work as a real coalition again. Then I don't know. If he does become Nixon...yeesh. Well. We'll see.

At minimum, I at least trust him to not, oh, say, blithely open up another front while we're still sunk in this one, or just flat-out nuke the place, which is *not* something I feel secure about with this administration, no, not at all. And with any luck he might at least be on top of things enough to spend the money where it's needed instead of funneling everything back into Halliburton and his rich friends' pockets while the troops go without sufficient body armor, food, or shelter.

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bemildred

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Tue Apr-13-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #20

23. There are some positive signs, like I said.

It's a tricky situation, because he's trying to get elected,
not trying to figure out what to do. I intend to vote for
him in any case. When he's in there we'll have to see what
we can do to hold his feet to the fire (if he needs it).

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northernsoul

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #12

14. the problem: who do you negotiate with?

The governing council are U.S. puppets and everybody knows it - who can legitimately speak for the entire Iraqi nation?

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bemildred

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Tue Apr-13-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #14

16. al Sistani?

Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 03:12 PM by bemildred

I assume they will back off to let us leave.
But, if necessary, hey fight your way back to Kuwait.
The first thing to do when your are hitting yourself in
the head with a hammer is to put the hammer down.

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NNN0LHI

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Tue Apr-13-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #16

21. I think they are realizing that we are not only going to lose Iraq

Edited on Tue Apr-13-04 04:31 PM by NNN0LHI

Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and others are now at risk too.

Don

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bemildred

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Tue Apr-13-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #21

26. One hopes that they are at least worried now.

Given the general level of groupthink displayed by these
guys, I am a bit leery of expecting a sudden burst of realism
and humility, but I guess we can hope.

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Just Me

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Tue Apr-13-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12

24. That is one of 1001 different solutions which could be developed.

In whatever innovative plan is created, I would most definitely include using reconstruction money to provide the insurgents JOBS (then, they will have less time on their hands to vent and fight) and sign an agreement that the resources located within Iraq will directly benefit in some way the Iraqi people.

In other words, start by ACTUALLY putting some tangible and constructive power in the hands of the Iraqi people to put their country back together again.

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0007

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Tue Apr-13-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message

15. I totally disagree that we're stuck - but I do agree we're stupidly

stuck in our foolishness.

I think the Iraqis can manage just fine without our sweet ass in their business.

Who interfered in our civil war?

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yardwork

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Tue Apr-13-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #15

18. I tend to agree with you 0007

There will be a civil war in Iraq, and it probably won't end in our favor.

That's why we won't get out. The government has no intention of giving up all that nice sweet oil. And that goes for Democrats as well as Republicans.

I have a bad feeling that this will play out just like Vietnam. In other words the U.S. will stay in, killing more and more, while trying to win on our terms.

It will be sold to the American people with the same kind of psy-ops fear and lies as Vietnam. Then it was the fear of commies. Today and tomorrow it will be the fear of losing oil and having our economy collapse.

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Demeter

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Tue Apr-13-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message

22. We DON"T need a Draft; We NEED to GET THE HELL OUT!

There is no way, short of genocide of the Middle East, that we are gonna win this one: face the facts and cut the losses, and prepare to go OIL-FREE. Who would have thought that the greasiest, oiliest, most corrupt regime in our history could do such a good thing for us: cut the oil umbilical, gut the GOP and the Religious Right, leave the Israeli idiots without cover, and start a world-wide US Humiliation diet. No point in killing more of our citizens for these fools.

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Just Me

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Tue Apr-13-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #22

25. We could put the billions saved from further warring into pig poop,...

,...which apparently can be converted into some pretty good petro.

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