Family need sent Mississippi dairy farmer to Iraq

On Health Care, Farm Policy, Job Creation and a Hostage in Iraq

JACKSON, Mississippi (AP) -- Thomas Hamill's neighbors knew all too well about the hard times that drove the gentle family man to sell off his dairy herd and take a high-paying but dangerous job in Iraq, where he has been missing since he was abducted last week.

<snip>

Hamill fought hard to keep the dairy business that had been in his family for three decades, working long, exhausting hours to pay off loans to the Merchants & Farmers Bank, friends said

<snip>

But he needed to find a way to raise his two young children and pay for heart surgery needed by his wife, Kellie.

<snip>

The rolling hills of Noxubee County are covered with rich, black soil, but its residents struggle with poverty. The median household income is only $22,000 and unemployment is around 11 percent.

<snip>

"An artillery round has landed within feet of him and he's constantly getting bricks thrown through his truck windows," Kellie Hamill, a 911 emergency dispatcher, told The Macon Beacon.

<snip>

MORE

employees in Iraq? Those who claim profit for war? You are so correct in your thinking! Wow, shame on this man for wanting to save his wife's life and support his two children! Whatever! And as I stated, "these people are employees doing a job... let us not tranfer our anger at bush* co to these people." Shame on you!
Also, note how the response from Halliburton is to cover their ass. But bush* did that for them already with his EO, I believe it's, 13303.

even the guards at Auschwitz had families to feed - that doesn't mean profiting off a war crime is acceptable.

I'm sorry this guy has had hard times, but who hasn't? Does that mean we should all just go and participate in the rape of Iraq?

Don't get me wrong, I do not wish any harm to come to this guy, and I hope the Iraqi's who are holding him treat him well, but the fact remains - he is an employee of the occupation forces, and as such he is a legitimate target.

Who should I feel more sorry for? The people who had no choice but to become the target of the most powerful military machine on the face of the planet, or this guy who thought working for that machine might earn him a few quick bucks?

He didn't have to be there, and now look what has happened - do you still think his wife's heart operation is HER main priority?

The real question is, what is his company and his government doing to make sure he gets home safely? It seems to me they are both doing the exact opposite.

Auschwitz is not a good example. Those collaborators were acting against there own community.
Perhaps I may be slightly naive and only try to view things from a perspective of good intentions. But it could very well be possible this man and many others like him were only listening to the GOP talking points of "things are going well in Iraq, we're making progress." etc, blah, blah, prior to embarking for Iraq. Only once they arrive in Iraq they are greeted with the cold hard reality that the bush* co and the US media are absolute liars who misrepresented the facts about the situation in Iraq. It's possible and a sad lesson to learn, indeed.
As for the tens of thousands of murdered and maimed Iraqis, I have the utmost sympathy for them. They have been completely victimized by this criminal war.

By the way, I was refering to the German guards at Auschwitz, not the Jewish trustys.

The fact is unlike the soldiers, these guys can leave any time they want - no one is forcing them to stay. This guy had a near miss from artillery (which, by the way, I have to say "huh?" to - I didn't know the Iraqi "insurgents" had artillery) he was getting bricks thrown through his window - yet he chose to stay.

Sure he may not have know about it going in, but once he was there, he found out. He STILL chose to stay.

The Criminals who steal, always have to feed their family. Even murderers justify their actions. He is no different. I had to rob the liquor store and shoot the clerk to feed my famliy---Please----

This dumb jerk played the game and lost--- too bad so sad. If Halliburton's thugs had killed my mother, the barbacue pit would already be being lit if I caught one of those sorry MF's

And it looks like he choose the wrong one.

What about that guy who bet his entire life savings on one Roulette spin?

Its just as risky, but at least the Roulette spinners change of being kidnapped or killed were not very high.

I'm sorry, but He was free to make a choice based on the consequences.

I live in rural Mississippi and my meager job is about to play out. Please tell me about all those lucrative jobs in this neck of the woods, as I could really use one right now.

And I know you must be inordinately proud of your roulette analogy, as you have been relentlessly spamming it through all the threads on this topic for days now, but it's really a very weak one, having nothing to do with the circumstances of any real person's life, so maybe you could ease up a bit?

Yeah, I think the analogy brings things into perspective. Risk is risk.

Just don't move to Maine, where a great deal of my family lives, working in Blueberry Fields and Fish factories.

somehow they still work out a way out to be happy.

Money isn't everything. He made the decision to go to IRAQ.

Move to Jackson and do mule service for a meth dealer....there you go...problem solved.

and no his analogy doesn't have any real circumstances on anyones life BUT the persons it describes. Unlike a guy who was enabling thieves and war profiteers.

You fly with the crows you get shot with the crows...don't come crying to me.

RC

I feel no shame at stating the obvious - participating in an illegal occupation of a sovereign country, in whatever capacity and whatever the incentives, is criminal. That's not to say that I feel no sympathy with this particular contractor, I do - his is a hard situation and I doubt anyone here could hand on heart say they were *certain* they wouldn't do the same thing. But he is still a criminal.

V

The only category that they really fit in is "unlawful combatant." I'm not sure what I feel about the individuals who are putting their asses on the line for profit, but I'm certain that the companies that are getting a slice of the pie by hiring them are run by hell spawn...

People like Hamill are in Iraq out of necessity, not advancement.

you might change your opinion. Private military companies that our soldiers rely on now can at any time pick up and leave whenever they feel like it, when it gets too dangerous for them. What are our soldiers to do then? How will they get their meals ?

What if they were depending on these Russians for supplies?

Russia to evacuate 800 from Iraq


(CNN) -- Moscow has responded to the kidnapping of eight employees of a Russia power consortium working in Baghdad by announcing the evacuation of more than 800 contractors from Iraq.

On Tuesday, Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor said 40 people from 12 countries were being held hostage in Iraq.

Three Russians and five Ukranians were kidnapped in Iraq on Monday then later freed.

The abductors did not make contact with their company, Inter Energo Servis, and had made no demands, executive director Alexander Rybinsky said.

According to the company Web site, IES has 365 employees in Iraq and has contracts to repair power plants in Nasiriya, in southern Iraq, and Baghdad.

more
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/14/iraq.hostages.int/

I started this thread on it last night in GD. He is simply a broke-ass good ole boy truck driver that is desparate for cash and probably doesn't have a clue about Haliburton and Cheney's connection. Also, remember what happened to Carter and Reagan when hostages were taken, Carter lost an election and Reagan pulled out of Lebanon. We need to further publicize his plight. It will help our cause more than attacking him.

This is what happens with "private contractors"



Another illegal war where PMCs are working in a country and no thought for the "entry level" mercenaries that work for them.

How many do we not know about?


The Forgotten Hostages Oct. 8, 2003 Another illegal war more hostages


The Forgotten Hostages Oct. 8, 2003

Edited on Mon Apr-12-04 05:21 PM by seemslikeadream
Another illegal war - more hostages



CBS) At this moment, three Americans are being held hostage under heavy guard in the jungles of Colombia, hoping for a miracle.

Their story is probably one you don't know much about. But after hearing from them, it is one you will never forget.

They are hostages of a narco-terrorist group known as FARC, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- guerrillas with a violent history and a penchant for holding kidnap victims for years, and then, often, killing them.

The Americans fell into the group's hands when their plane crashed in the jungle more than eight months ago. The families of the hostages say the men they love have been forgotten.

They hope that will change tonight, because of what you are about to see and hear from the hostages themselves. Correspondent Dan Rather reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To our country, we miss you and we hope we return one day. We're alive and well," says Keith Stansell, 38, a systems analyst.

"We expect to get out of here one day. We can't say for sure,” says Thomas Howes, 50, a professional pilot. “But our main concern is the welfare of our families."

"I'm a proud American,” says Marc Gonsalves, 31, also a systems analyst. “I look to you guys and I ask for a diplomatic solution to get us home safe, please."

A videotape of the three Americans - Stansell, Howes and Gonsalves - was made by Colombian journalist Jorge Botero. He made the trek deep into the jungles to a steamy, wooden shack.

Botero was escorted inside by a guerrilla commander, where he met the three Americans and recorded a tape to prove that they were alive and well – and ready to be traded for imprisoned members of the FARC Revolutionary Army being held by the Colombian government.

They are prisoners in a war most Americans don't even know is going on, even though the United States is deeply involved.

Stansell, Gonsalves and Howes are contractors, like some of the thousands of American civilians now in Colombia. Many of them were hired by the U.S. government to search for and destroy cocaine production
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/06/60II/main576739.shtml

Part II: The Forgotten Hostages

"I have a message for the company that we work for, just remember one thing when you see the three of us here. We did a good job for you. Just take good care of our families. We see here in the press release that our contract has been changed to a company that we don't know about after our crash,” says Stansell.
What the three men didn't know was that ten days after their plane went down, California Microwave handed over the mission, their contract, to a newly formed company named Ciao.

The three learned this from a press release Botero brought them, which Stansell read to his friends: “Three years ago, the Pentagon awarded a contract to conduct surveillance in Colombia to California Microwave, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman. Shortly after plane went down, California Microwave transferred the contract, along with the planes and pilots, to a new company called C-I-A-O … chow."

When their captors overheard the hostages talking about the new company, the FARC made it clear that the new name sounded suspiciously like the CIA.

"C-I-A-O. This happened after the crash. We don't know who these people are," says Stansell. “We're civilian contractors."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60 Minutes II went to Northrop Grumman and asked about its new subsidiary, Ciao, which is now apparently in charge of planes and pilots in Colombia.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/08/60II/main577184.shtml

March 16, 2004
Hostage's Son Gets Support from Classmates


“A child has lost his father to a Colombian guerrilla group we need to take action now,” said Dylan Rawles.

The letters to Senators Richard Lugar and Evan Bayh were the idea of teacher Stacy Ireland. “As sixth graders we can make a difference working with our government in Noblesville and we can make a difference in United States,” said teacher Stacy Ireland.

No one wants to make a difference more than student Kyle Stansell. “I just have a feeling now, all this is being done. It's got to do something,” he said.

Kyle is the son of Keith Stansell. Stansell and the two other American hostages appeared in a documentary shot last summer in Colombia. It is the only visual evidence that the men are still alive.
“Then I see him on this and he's almost crying and I've never seen him cry in his entire life,” said Kyle.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1716114&nav=CPFQLZmj


U.S. adds to military presence in Colombia
Leftist rebels admit holding three Americans
Saturday, February 22, 2003 Posted: 10:17 PM EST (0317 GMT)



The bodies of two passengers were found shot near the wreckage of their crashed plane.

U.S. adds to military presence in Colombia
Leftist rebels admit holding three Americans
Saturday, February 22, 2003 Posted: 10:17 PM EST (0317 GMT)



The bodies of two passengers were found shot near the wreckage of their crashed plane.

CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- A senior Bush administration official told CNN on Saturday that additional U.S. military personnel have been dispatched to Colombia, where leftist rebels have acknowledged holding three Americans captive.


Colombia's largest rebel group has said the lives of the three U.S. citizens are at risk if the government does not halt military operations in rebel-held territory.

In a communiqué posted Saturday on its Web site, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- known by its Spanish acronym, FARC -- acknowledged for the first time that it had captured three Americans who survived a plane crash February 13 in rebel-held territory.

The rebels also claimed responsibility for shooting down the plane, which they said had been on a mission to spy on them. Colombian and U.S. military forces have blamed the crash on mechanical problems.

"We can only guarantee the life and physical integrity of the three official gringos in our power if the Colombian military immediately suspends military operations and overflights in the area," said the communiqué, which was datelined "The mountains of Colombia, February 21."

The State Department refused to comment on the FARC announcement and repeated previous statements holding the FARC "responsible for the safety, health and well-being" of the Americans.

The United States "demands their safe release," a State Department official said.

The State Department official said the United States has "not authorized any group to negotiate" with FARC for the hostages' release.

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:nM4LQCfeQ9oJ:www.cnn.com/2003/WOR ...




Edited on Mon Apr-12-04 05:21 PM by seemslikeadream
Another illegal war - more hostages



CBS) At this moment, three Americans are being held hostage under heavy guard in the jungles of Colombia, hoping for a miracle.

Their story is probably one you don't know much about. But after hearing from them, it is one you will never forget.

They are hostages of a narco-terrorist group known as FARC, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- guerrillas with a violent history and a penchant for holding kidnap victims for years, and then, often, killing them.

The Americans fell into the group's hands when their plane crashed in the jungle more than eight months ago. The families of the hostages say the men they love have been forgotten.

They hope that will change tonight, because of what you are about to see and hear from the hostages themselves. Correspondent Dan Rather reports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To our country, we miss you and we hope we return one day. We're alive and well," says Keith Stansell, 38, a systems analyst.

"We expect to get out of here one day. We can't say for sure,” says Thomas Howes, 50, a professional pilot. “But our main concern is the welfare of our families."

"I'm a proud American,” says Marc Gonsalves, 31, also a systems analyst. “I look to you guys and I ask for a diplomatic solution to get us home safe, please."

A videotape of the three Americans - Stansell, Howes and Gonsalves - was made by Colombian journalist Jorge Botero. He made the trek deep into the jungles to a steamy, wooden shack.

Botero was escorted inside by a guerrilla commander, where he met the three Americans and recorded a tape to prove that they were alive and well – and ready to be traded for imprisoned members of the FARC Revolutionary Army being held by the Colombian government.

They are prisoners in a war most Americans don't even know is going on, even though the United States is deeply involved.

Stansell, Gonsalves and Howes are contractors, like some of the thousands of American civilians now in Colombia. Many of them were hired by the U.S. government to search for and destroy cocaine production
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/06/60II/main576739.shtml

Part II: The Forgotten Hostages

"I have a message for the company that we work for, just remember one thing when you see the three of us here. We did a good job for you. Just take good care of our families. We see here in the press release that our contract has been changed to a company that we don't know about after our crash,” says Stansell.
What the three men didn't know was that ten days after their plane went down, California Microwave handed over the mission, their contract, to a newly formed company named Ciao.

The three learned this from a press release Botero brought them, which Stansell read to his friends: “Three years ago, the Pentagon awarded a contract to conduct surveillance in Colombia to California Microwave, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman. Shortly after plane went down, California Microwave transferred the contract, along with the planes and pilots, to a new company called C-I-A-O … chow."

When their captors overheard the hostages talking about the new company, the FARC made it clear that the new name sounded suspiciously like the CIA.

"C-I-A-O. This happened after the crash. We don't know who these people are," says Stansell. “We're civilian contractors."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60 Minutes II went to Northrop Grumman and asked about its new subsidiary, Ciao, which is now apparently in charge of planes and pilots in Colombia.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/08/60II/main577184.shtml

March 16, 2004
Hostage's Son Gets Support from Classmates


“A child has lost his father to a Colombian guerrilla group we need to take action now,” said Dylan Rawles.

The letters to Senators Richard Lugar and Evan Bayh were the idea of teacher Stacy Ireland. “As sixth graders we can make a difference working with our government in Noblesville and we can make a difference in United States,” said teacher Stacy Ireland.

No one wants to make a difference more than student Kyle Stansell. “I just have a feeling now, all this is being done. It's got to do something,” he said.

Kyle is the son of Keith Stansell. Stansell and the two other American hostages appeared in a documentary shot last summer in Colombia. It is the only visual evidence that the men are still alive.
“Then I see him on this and he's almost crying and I've never seen him cry in his entire life,” said Kyle.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1716114&nav=CPFQLZmj


U.S. adds to military presence in Colombia
Leftist rebels admit holding three Americans
Saturday, February 22, 2003 Posted: 10:17 PM EST (0317 GMT)



The bodies of two passengers were found shot near the wreckage of their crashed plane.

U.S. adds to military presence in Colombia
Leftist rebels admit holding three Americans
Saturday, February 22, 2003 Posted: 10:17 PM EST (0317 GMT)



The bodies of two passengers were found shot near the wreckage of their crashed plane.

CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- A senior Bush administration official told CNN on Saturday that additional U.S. military personnel have been dispatched to Colombia, where leftist rebels have acknowledged holding three Americans captive.


Colombia's largest rebel group has said the lives of the three U.S. citizens are at risk if the government does not halt military operations in rebel-held territory.

In a communiqué posted Saturday on its Web site, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- known by its Spanish acronym, FARC -- acknowledged for the first time that it had captured three Americans who survived a plane crash February 13 in rebel-held territory.

The rebels also claimed responsibility for shooting down the plane, which they said had been on a mission to spy on them. Colombian and U.S. military forces have blamed the crash on mechanical problems.

"We can only guarantee the life and physical integrity of the three official gringos in our power if the Colombian military immediately suspends military operations and overflights in the area," said the communiqué, which was datelined "The mountains of Colombia, February 21."

The State Department refused to comment on the FARC announcement and repeated previous statements holding the FARC "responsible for the safety, health and well-being" of the Americans.

The United States "demands their safe release," a State Department official said.

The State Department official said the United States has "not authorized any group to negotiate" with FARC for the hostages' release.

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:nM4LQCfeQ9oJ:www.cnn.com/2003/WOR ...

There are jobs here --- there is a recovery.. He was being paid $1000.00 per day --- He's now out of luck

Feel sorry if you will for the Witmer sisters They were there for $800 a month and they had no choice, they were ordered there.



The Witmer family appear at a press conference, Tuesday. Michelle is survived by her father, John Witmer; twin sister, Charity; sister, Rachel; mother, Lori; and brothers Tim and Mark, from left. (AP Photo/MIlwaukee Journal Sentinel, Dale Guldan)

BROOKFIELD, Wis. (AP) - The soldier sisters of a National Guard member killed in Iraq say they must weigh the needs of two families _ the one at home and their military units overseas _ as they decide whether to return to the war zone.

Maybe then his family would have been taken care of by our government.

Because I don't think the Witmer sisters and most thinking individuals are going to want to be part of the new PNAC killing machine.

AMY GOODMAN: Rahul, what about the presence of mercenaries, of the growing private army outside of the U.S. army?


RAHUL MAHAJAN: Well, I think that this is part of a standard trend of, just, making sure that the limited controls that are at least legally in place on actual U.S. government employees, like Congressional oversight, can be gotten around. And there are claims that the mercenaries don't get proper training, although it's not clear to me what kind of training the ordinary soldiers get. I think it's just really -- it's part and parcel of the whole problem. There's the corruption, the corporate cronyism in contracts, the use of private armies and private mercenaries, and it all goes to show just what a disaster this whole occupation is. I don't think their conduct in particular is so vastly different from that of the ordinary military. I think it's just an extension of the same problem.

more
http://www.guerrillanews.com/human_rights/doc4291.html

I have a friend that called me two weeks ago after not hearing from him for 10 years. It sounded like he just wanted to touch base since he found out that after one tour of duty in Iraq he was being shipped back, this time to Fallujah. He's full time National Guard. We all have choices. He could choose to shirk his duty and not go back to Iraq. I could choose not to pay my taxes since I know some of the money will be spent on the Iraq war. However, if we all did that this country would fall into anarchy. Yeah, Hamill made his own decision to go to Iraq, but I don't put him in the same category as the hired guns and I don't view his position as decision as being along the same sacrafice as our soldiers. This guy, from what I heard about him, probably didn't think about the political or moral considerations. He just saw a way to make a quick buck to help him out of his financial problems. I think it benefits our cause more to promote sympathy for this fellow than attack him. The world is not that black and white.

Everyone in this area of the country knows Halliburton. Every truck driver or working man who hit hard times in a small town down here - they have all considered working for Halliburton or other oil-service corpoRATions. A fair-sized proportion of them HAVE worked for Halliburton down here. Off-shore, hauling rigs back and forth between between Houston and Pascagoula - OR - high-pay overseas work.

complicity with this illegal and immoral war of aggression, the likes of which got Nazis hung after the Nuremburg Trials.

The only people I have no sympathy for are the weapon-wielding mercenaries who are there, just like the oil-seeking neocons, ready to kill people just for money.

All our troops, including this truck-driver who was desperate enough to risk his own life to save his wife's, have been repeatedly totally unescapingly lied to about America and it's role in the world ever since they were born.

This is what is so painful. Millions of Americans who are hard-working, principled, and self-sacrificing have been duped into enacting the most horrific murderous policies for decades.

Our military has been used to PREVENT democracy and support tyranny, torture, terrorism, and starvation.

All while they are fighting the good fight, on the side of the angels.

DU-ers should be sympathetic to those who get caught up unknowingly in the death web and show the 'other Americans' who don't know the scam that WE ARE ON THEIR SIDE, TOO.

for his family.

Edit: I just remembered - my cousin's husband seriously considered signing up for a truck driving job in Kuwait after the first Gulf War for very high pay. They had serious financial problems. Ultimately, he did not go. They filed bankruptcy instead. Luckily they didn't have heart surgery to worry about.

Their Halliburton friends are popping the champagne at the thought of new Government Cost--Plus Contracts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=9558&mesg_id=9558

Everyone has to be responsible to themselves and their families for the choices they make.

Even at some point one cannot feel sorry for any one ----who knowing the consequences, ------continues their risky and idiotic behavior.

Wednesday 14 April @ 13:14:50
by Ed Felien

Last week four civilian contractors wanted to take a shortcut through Fallujah and ended up being shot, their bodies burned, dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge.


As Strother Martin says in Hud, “What we have here is a failure to communicate.” We call them civilian contractors. The Iraqis call them mercenaries and armed thugs. Bush says they hate our freedom. The Iraqis say they hate the freedom of Halliburton stealing their oil. They hate the freedom of mercenaries and U. S. soldiers killing Iraqi women and children.

In reprisal for the murder of the four civilian contractors/mercenaries the United States shelled and bombed Fallujah using internationally banned cluster bombs and killing more than 600 people. This was such a horrific atrocity it united the Sunnis and Shi ites in opposition to the U. S. occupation. Shi ite convoys of food and medical supplies drove to Fallujah from Baghdad, even though Shi ites remember Fallujah as the site of the prison that held Shi ites critical of Saddam Hussein’s regime.

Resistance to U. S. and coalition forces has dramatically intensified. Armored Personnel Carriers, helicopters, three Humvees and 10 tanks have been destroyed. The British base in Basrah was shelled. Al-Jazeera TV showed footage of two dead U. S. civilians identified as CIA operatives. A wave of kidnapping has subsided, after clerics condemned the tactic. Seven Halliburton employees are still being held.

http://www.pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=1024



As the rap song says: “Don’t give me no shit about blood, sweat, tears and toil. It’s all about the price of oil.”

That Strother Martin uttered that line in "Cool Hand Luke", not "Hud"

How many do you think? I want this man home with his family ASAP and working a job here in America that pays well enough to support his family. Not 8000 miles away in someone else's country we have no business being in that we our trying to control from the end of a gun.

Don

These auxilliary troops are being put there by the NeoCons to avoid responsibility of the UCMJ.. If a mercenary offs a civilian under whose law will they be prosecuted?

And it's reason to think that the current economic doldrum is completely calculated. Financially pressed people will take risks that they otherwise never would, on the slight hope that their family will be better off. They join the military, they work as contractors on frontlines--or they may take illegal risks such as drug-running or blowing themselves up in exchange for the promise of aid to their families. The solution is to make sure people have legitimate respectable peaceful options. But the Bushies don't want that--they want desperate people who will do desperate things, and they don't seem to have the sense to realize that they can't control what those desperate things will be everywhere. They have created a situations wherein the desperate peoples they have generated are now at desperately at each others' throats.

Just to get to know who these guys are. Maybe some poor souls were duped into working for them, didn't realize what they were getting into. Needed the money, what segment of US population needs financial aid more than senior citizens, are they expected to sign up to so they can pay their medical bills?

"I too spent time in Iraq with Custer Battles. They are a frauduently company. Trust me, they are worried about $$ first and the employee/ bodies last. They will breach anyones contract, then screw them all the way home. Also don't trust there K9 division, there dogs are suppose to be BOMB dogs, I won't bet my life on the dogs finding anything. Also is a liar." (January 8, 2004)
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Custer_Battles

A new monster has emerged from the depths of private security firms
operating in IRaq. Custer Battles LLC, the new company that took over
security at the Baghdad Airport. The on-site management team is made up of
a bunch of former "army ranger" types that must have a real "treat" to work
for in the military. They could care less about the health or safety of
thier own staff never mind that of the innocent civilians working in and
around the airport. They promote a type of security that well crosses the
borders of decent treatment and humanitarian treatment. Constantly yelling
at thier own staff to "take no shit" , point weapons at innocent/unarmed
civilians, and "suck it up" when they have a complaint... they present as no
company that is certainly going to help with the problem of how Americans
are percieved in the area. Pointing weapons and threatening thier own staff
with being "escorted" to the propertly line and forceing those that wish to
quite or be fired to make thier take an "unarmed" ride without
communications through the country to get out.

They have hired 50 or so Ghurkas from Nepal to support the operation... but
pay them less than 1/4 of what most of the other staff gets. Forced to eat
Iraqi food without proper cooking and storing has made many of them sick...
and the management could care less. When faced with questions, they simply
place you in truck and send you unarmed and without communications to
Amman... where you have to find your own way home basically.

They have purchases thier own plane (the management) but still do not
properly equip thier own staff. They are forced to patrol the area in
sub-standard vehicles that creat yet another dangerous situation. These
vehicles are not robust enough to withstand a blowout never mind any other
attacks. With the 4 cylinder P/Us, the officers are not able to get out of
thier own way, never mind escape an attack or dangerous situation.

I encourage you to look into this type of activity and wast of our money in
Iraq.

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2003w33/msg00065.htm

Topic Page: 1 2 of 2
Kevwhite


USA
2 Posts
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 12:36:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a warning to anyone considering a contract with Custer Battles LLC, of Fairfax,VA, the company currently awarded the contract to provide security at Baghdad International Airport. I was with them for the first month. The company repeatedly demonstrated signs of serious cash flow problems that effected their ability meet payrolls, both within country and also for all the Americans expecting direct deposits back home. We were all shorted on our first pay, at the end of July, and the promise to make up the difference by Aug 5 was not met. At that time the excuse was that it was easier to pay us the back wages along with our normal pay at the end of Aug. However, at least in my case, the Aug pay was also substantially light. As I had returned to the states due to a death in my family, and being owed nearly $2000, I opted to not return. There are also a number of issues, such as health and welfare concerns and generally poor management, that contributed to my decision. A number of other well qualified professionals have also left them. If you are a true professional you will not like working for them and you will not want your name associated with them.

tthrasher


USA
1 Posts
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 19:40:09
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Could you email me with more info? I was planning on sending them my resume.


togeoff


United Kingdom
46 Posts
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 11:32:24
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quote:
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Originally posted by Kevwhite

Just a warning ..with them.

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I wouldn't mind more information myself - I too was looking at what they were offering.

Geoff H


RangerinIraq


USA
1 Posts
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 07:27:24
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I've been with Custer Battles since they started here in Iraq in July. After my time in the Army, this has been the most rewarding experience I've had. Custer Battles has been good to me, and while they have definitely experienced growing pains, they take care of their people more than any company I know. The owners spend most of their time here, and they handle issues fairly and honorably.

I also know the guy who posted this note. He left the company after they paid $3000 up front to fly him home for a family emergency and he repays them by posting crap like this.

All I know is that I enjoy what I do and I'd recommend Custer Battles to anyone. They're definitely hiring and expanding; send em your resume.




t


1 Posts
Posted - 12/22/2003 : 17:34:46
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reference custer battles,please stay clear,they are dangerous,i have just left them,they left us without body armour,ammo and weapons,we had to buy all our own equipment and scrounge it from other good companies and the military,then we were told to arrange our own transport home on leave,it was unbelievable,when these points were brought up we were ignored at all levels,from washinton to bagdad.they had in place teams of psd's from the usa who then left,then they had teams of psd's from france who then left,then they had teams of psd's from the uk who then left,does this not speak volumes.custer battles are only in it to gain as much cash as possable they definetely should not get the contract renewed in march they are dredfull in the way they conduct thier buisness,ps.to the previous "ranger" im glad you are happy mate but they are not anywhere as good as you make out,please do your research to find out whether what i have said is fact or fiction,yours T.


alan_w


USA
1 Posts
Posted - 12/26/2003 : 09:42:55
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More info please. Been offered a contract.


divdoc


USA
3 Posts
Posted - 12/28/2003 : 01:14:18
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quote:
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Originally posted by Kevwhite

Just a warning to anyone considering a contract with Custer Battles LLC, of Fairfax,VA, the company currently awarded the contract to provide security at Baghdad International Airport. I was with them for the first month. The company repeatedly demonstrated signs of serious cash flow problems that effected their ability meet payrolls, both within country and also for all the Americans expecting direct deposits back home. We were all shorted on our first pay, at the end of July, and the promise to make up the difference by Aug 5 was not met. At that time the excuse was that it was easier to pay us the back wages along with our normal pay at the end of Aug. However, at least in my case, the Aug pay was also substantially light. As I had returned to the states due to a death in my family, and being owed nearly $2000, I opted to not return. There are also a number of issues, such as health and welfare concerns and generally poor management, that contributed to my decision. A number of other well qualified professionals have also left them. If you are a true professional you will not like working for them and you will not want your name associated with them.

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Thanks for the heads-up. I work for ITT/Group4 in Bosnia. The same advice and avoidance should be applied.


custerbattlesisajoke


2 Posts
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 19:43:10
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I too spent time in Iraq with Custer Battles. They are a frauduently company. Trust me, they are worried about $$ first and the employee/ bodies last. They will breach anyones contract, then screw them all the way home.

Also don't trust there K9 division, there dogs are suppose to be BOMB dogs, I won't bet my life on the dogs finding anything. Also Jerry Johnson is a liar.




lawdoggs86


USA
3 Posts
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 00:56:00
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Do you work for a Defense Contractor in Iraq or elswhere?

Have you been mistreated, abused, injured on the job?

Send your e-mail, (names are not necessary) and a short description of your situation to: lawdoggs86@yahoo.com

We are preparing lists of personnel to mount mass torts, (class action lawsuits) against the various contracting organizations that have abused, mistreated and otherwise maligned security and other contracting professionals in this, our nation's time of crisis.

While our soldiers die in Iraq everyday, these companies only talk about greed, greed, greed.

Information will be sent to you about the various attournies and other legal organizations you can contact to put a stop to these insidious abuses.

lawdoggs86@yahoo.com


csdickey


USA
1 Posts
Posted - 02/09/2004 : 04:36:43
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by t

reference custer battles,please stay clear,they are dangerous,i have just left them,they left us without body armour,ammo and weapons,we had to buy all our own equipment and scrounge it from other good companies and the military,then we were told to arrange our own transport home on leave,it was unbelievable,when these points were brought up we were ignored at all levels,from washinton to bagdad.they had in place teams of psd's from the usa who then left,then they had teams of psd's from france who then left,then they had teams of psd's from the uk who then left,does this not speak volumes.custer battles are only in it to gain as much cash as possable they definetely should not get the contract renewed in march they are dredfull in the way they conduct thier buisness,ps.to the previous "ranger" im glad you are happy mate but they are not anywhere as good as you make out,please do your research to find out whether what i have said is fact or fiction,yours T.

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Enzo


Germany
5 Posts
Posted - 02/10/2004 : 08:09:53
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quote:
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Originally posted by csdickey


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by t

reference custer battles,please stay clear,they are dangerous,i have just left them,they left us without body armour,ammo and weapons,we had to buy all our own equipment and scrounge it from other good companies and the military,then we were told to arrange our own transport home on leave,it was unbelievable,when these points were brought up we were ignored at all levels,from washinton to bagdad.they had in place teams of psd's from the usa who then left,then they had teams of psd's from france who then left,then they had teams of psd's from the uk who then left,does this not speak volumes.custer battles are only in it to gain as much cash as possable they definetely should not get the contract renewed in march they are dredfull in the way they conduct thier buisness,ps.to the previous "ranger" im glad you are happy mate but they are not anywhere as good as you make out,please do your research to find out whether what i have said is fact or fiction,yours T.

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Has someone any adresses from serious companies,maybe UXO-related,in the area?
Thank´s,Enzo

SL


lawdoggs86


USA
3 Posts
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:05:15
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Do you work for a Defense Contractor in Iraq or elswhere?

Have you been mistreated, abused, injured on the job?

Send your e-mail, (names are not necessary) and a short description of your situation to: lawdoggs86@yahoo.com

Also, if you know of other message boards, send that information as well. We will band together a network to stop these people from their sick and disgusting practices which are ruining our lives and costing our noble troops their's.

Whether you work for: Brown & Root/Haliburton

DynCorp

Custer Battles

ITT

or other corrupt contracting organization, you need to take a stand.

Don't be fooled. These people have strong lobbies in Washington and deep pockets filled, not only with tax payers fraudulently acquired dollars, but politicians and high ranking military officials as well.

This is not a joke. If we don't start standing up to these filthy thieves, nobody will.

I did not serve my country to let that happen. Nor, I believe, did you.

start here: http://www.alexanderlaw.com /

all information is strictly confidential.

We are preparing lists of personnel to mount mass torts, (class action lawsuits) against the various contracting organizations that have abused, mistreated and otherwise maligned security and other contracting professionals in this, our nation's time of crisis.

While our soldiers die in Iraq everyday, these companies only talk about greed, greed, greed.

Information will be sent to you about the various attornies and other legal organizations you can contact to put a stop to these insidious abuses.

lawdoggs86@yahoo.com


custerbattlesisajoke


2 Posts
Posted - 02/13/2004 : 16:59:42
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At least we weren't the only ones with out body armour. Guns with 2 or 3 bullets. Custer Battles, needs to be investigated for Fraud! At least I am home, I have heard othe horror stories of the way they treat there people.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by csdickey


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by t

reference custer battles,please stay clear,they are dangerous,i have just left them,they left us without body armour,ammo and weapons,we had to buy all our own equipment and scrounge it from other good companies and the military,then we were told to arrange our own transport home on leave,it was unbelievable,when these points were brought up we were ignored at all levels,from washinton to bagdad.they had in place teams of psd's from the usa who then left,then they had teams of psd's from france who then left,then they had teams of psd's from the uk who then left,does this not speak volumes.custer battles are only in it to gain as much cash as possable they definetely should not get the contract renewed in march they are dredfull in the way they conduct thier buisness,ps.to the previous "ranger" im glad you are happy mate but they are not anywhere as good as you make out,please do your research to find out whether what i have said is fact or fiction,yours T.

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Duke


1 Posts
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 18:48:48
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I would like some additional info too - like tthrasher, I am/was considering some work for them...would like to hear more about what they are not doing well...

Thanks

D


ScottK


USA
4 Posts
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 13:44:33
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Any updates on this company? Email me if you don't want to post.


susanskate


USA
1 Posts
Posted - 03/23/2004 : 14:07:09
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Hello,
I am a foreign correspondent for a major U.S. newspaper working on stories about problems with subcontractors in Iraq - if you have specific examples of any problems, or have worked for a subcontractor I would like to hear from you!




Posted - 04/09/2004 : 20:01:12
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I am a journalist for a UK paper reporting a story about a Custer Battles employee killed this week in an ambush near Hit.
Would any Custer employees with relevant information please email me asap.


Temps From Texas
Half a world away, another group of unemployed workers can be found at recruiting sessions in Houston. The company has been posting flyers at truck stops and posting advertisements on the internet. Four out of five of the recruits who are invited to training sessions who worked at a now defunct JC Penny store will be sent to Iraq. Halliburton sends an average of 500 recruits a week.

These men are not skilled. "They are unemployed and underemployed workers with few jobs in a U.S. economy that isn't producing many jobs," writes Russell Gold, a Wall Street Journal reporter. Gold interviewed men lining up for the training sessions, citing the example of one typical applicant whose previous job was transporting chickens for $12 an hour.

But when they arrive in Iraq, their navy blue American passports earn them a tidy sum of money: between $7,000 and $8,000 a month, generous sums, even by American standards. CorpWatch asked company spokesperson Norcross why there is such a huge disparity based on nationality in the wages Halliburton pays in Iraq.

"We will not discuss our specific wage structures. Our compensation packages and the compensation packages provided by our subcontractors are based on a wage scale that was recommended by the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, and are competitive in terms of the local market," she wrote back.

When I posed the same question to Army spokesperson Dowling, we got a more revealing answer.

"These workers consider themselves fortunate to have jobs even if it means them traveling somewhere else. There is an army of companies that move from conflict to conflict with experience in setting up chow halls from an empty field to a 1,000 army camp in a matter of days. It's not an easy job and these guys are good at it. They bring their own people with them - people with experience in other military locations," Dowling explained.

"The (salary) decision is not based on the value of his life but on the cost of training and equipping the workforce. Nor would it be right for the US Army to enforce US based salaries where no one else could match it. Life sometimes isn't fair," he concluded.

I'm sure Al Rasheed waiters Muzaffar, Shahnawaz and Ali would agree.

http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=9928

Get to know Halliburton


During 2002 the Securities and Exchange Commission undertook an investigation of Halliburton's accounting practices, relating to events in 1998, which has not been completed.

Halliburton's "current contract in Kuwait began in September 2002 when Joyce Taylor of the U.S. Army Materiel Command's Program Management Office, arrived to supervise approximately 1,800 Brown and Root employees to set up tent cities that would provide accommodation for tens of thousands of soldiers and officials."<8>

The Center for Cooperative Research says "Manipulating U.S. foreign policy isn¹t the only strategy in Halliburton¹s repertoire of means to securing profits. Another method that has apparently proven extremely successful is doing business with the government and bidding on contracts financed by U.S. dominated bilateral and multilateral aid agencies. Although Dick Cheney had once lashed out at Joseph I. Lieberman saying that his success at Halliburton 'had absolutely nothing to do with' the government, the real facts have shown otherwise." Cooperative Research calls this practice corporate welfare. The organization gives a detailed listing of Halliburton's business dealings in this regard.


http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Halliburton

COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
Fifty-fifth session
Item 5 of the provisional agenda




THE RIGHT OF PEOPLES TO SELF-DETERMINATION AND ITS
APPLICATION TO PEOPLES UNDER COLONIAL OR ALIEN
DOMINATION OR FOREIGN OCCUPATION


Report on the question of the use of mercenaries as a means of
violating human rights and impeding the exercise of the
right of peoples to self-determination, submitted by
Mr. Enrique Bernales Ballesteros (Peru), Special Rapporteur
pursuant to Commission resolution 1998/6


http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/huridoca.nsf/%28Symbol%29/E.CN.4.1999.1 ...


REGULATING THE NEW PRIVATEERS: PRIVATE MILITARY SERVICE CONTRACTING AND THE MODERN MARQUE AND REPRISAL CLAUSE
Matt Gaul
http://faculty.lls.edu/~manheimk/ns/gaul2.htm

INTERNATIONAL -- INT'L COVER STORY

Outsourcing War
An inside look at Brown & Root, the kingpin of America's new military-industrial complex

Early on the morning of Aug. 5, a U.S. mail convoy pulled out of the airport in Baghdad and headed north. A U.S. Army Humvee bristling with weaponry led the way, followed by three heavily loaded trucks, each driven by a civilian employee of Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR). A second military Humvee brought up the rear. Near Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown, a bomb detonated under one of the trucks. The military police pried its driver, Fred Bryant Jr., from the wreckage and raced him to a military field hospital. Bryant, 39, died en route, the first KBR combat casualty since the Texas contractor was founded in 1919.

Bryant's death underscores the U.S. military's heavy reliance on private military companies, or PMCs, to wage war in Iraq. By most estimates, civilian contractors are handling as much as 20% to 30% of essential military support services in Iraq. Scores of PMCs are active all across the country, but KBR in particular has become indispensable to the global projection of American military might in this unsettled age. "It is no exaggeration to say that wherever the U.S. military goes, so goes Brown & Root," says P.W. Singer, a Brookings Institution fellow and author of Corporate Warriors. Widely known as Brown & Root, KBR is a unit of oil-services giant Halliburton Co. (HAL ) -- Dick Cheney's old company.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_37/b3849012.htm

I don't know what happened I got a page unavailable message the first few tries. I have DSL and I've never had that happen while posting.

legal action against these companies, it's the Executive Order 13303 signed by W* a couple of months after the start of the war. It protects oil companies etc from lawsuits.

I even went along once on a two week haul, just to see what it was like. He makes about 60K to 65K in a good year, so that comes out to 200-250 per day. If I told him that I could get him a job for $1000 per day, he would say "what's the catch - am I smuggling drugs or something?". So, while one can feel some sympathy for this gentleman, he seriously mis-read the situation if he thought this was anything close to a standard truck driving job.

If the U.S. had universal health care, he wouldn't have been in such a desperate situation.

So an ex-Ranger who gets bored with civvy life and signs up to tote a sub-machine gun for $1000 a day is to be scorned as a "hired killer", but we're supposed to get all teary-eyed for the poor, stupid dirt-farming sharecropper who thought he found a way to make some "Easy FAT Cash"?

"Just a truck driver"...So we should let anybody serving time for being the "wheelmen" for the mob out because they were "just drivers"?

Mercenaries have supply/support orgs, too...

and there is so little economic opportunity in Louisiana and Mississippi. The guy was just trying to take care of his family. F GW for not doing anything for the poor and Middle class and doing his best to take care of his rich buddies. With a decent economy and no fake war people would never take these risks unless they are really into war.

Judging from some of the responses here, the real point of the Hamill situation is that it allows comfortable people who have never known real economic hardship to congratulate themselves on their exquisite moral purity in not working for Halliburton and condemn those who fall short of their own heartwarming and noble example.

Why should we stop their fun by bringing up such unpleasant matters as the desperation that is a fact of daily life for many people in this country?

I mean a single mother with no job skills and no child care should be able to find a job supporting all 3 kids and herself. Look McDonalds is hiring. She doesn't need any hand outs.:eyes: I've heard this argument too many times and it never holds water with me. This poor sap probably did not even consider the political or moral implications of his job. He is just a pawn in Shrub's war. We should be attacking the King.

Because I have been in dire financial straits, to the point of being homeless and living on the streets. Due to my experience and education, both the Army and Navy were offering me LARGE enlistment bonuses, with pretty good pay for the time. And due to my moral convictions and my conscience, I turned them down flat.

So don't go painting with broad brushes on this board, you never no what the history of your fellow posters are. Not all of us are "comfortable people who have never known real economic hardship". In fact I would wager that most of the people here deal with hardship and misery in their lives on a regular basis.

This man made a choice, a poor one. Instead of pursuing other opportunities that he had before him, he got greedy and bit on the big bucks. According to the article, he was a volunteer firefighter. I don't know what it is like in Mississippi, but here in Missouri if you put in three-five years as a volunteer firefighter, you can step up to the big leagues and get paid good money. The article also stated that he was a part time truck driver. Why didn't he become one full time? Gee, good money, medical care, what's the prob? But no, instead he had to get greedy, and in the end, he got caught. Yes, I feel for his plight, but he made his own bed, don't bitch when it is time to bed down in it.

2000 Presidential Election

Louisiana: Bush-927,871 Gore-792,344 Nader-20,473
Mississippi: Bush-572,844 Gore-404,614 Nader- 8,122

The people of Louisiana and Mississippi got what they voted for.

Corporate farms own the politicians, and the people keep voting for the same politicians, and this isn't only in the south.

You would think that if the person you vote for, screws you without using vaseline, you wouldn't vote for them again. But I guess that
makes too much sense.

Why are people like this forced to go to Iraq to make money? I'd rather see Bush, Cheney, et al. being forced to work in the country they are 'liberating.'

I would say 'surveyor for the East India Company' in the time of Clive would be a more apt comparison