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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:03 AM
Original message
Insurgents Display New Sophistication-demolish bridges on US supply route
Insurgents Display New Sophistication
Campaign Leaves Bridges Heavily Damaged, Hampering Military's Push South
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
FORWARD OPERATING BASE DUKE, Iraq -- Insurgents fighting the U.S.-led occupation force have sharply increased the sophistication, coordination and aggressiveness of their tactics over the past week, Army officers and soldiers involved in combat here said.

Most dramatically, as several thousand U.S. troops pushed south this week from the Baghdad area to this new base in central Iraq, one highway bridge on their planned route was destroyed and two others were so heavily damaged that they could not be used by heavy Army trucks and armored vehicles.

Those attacks on convoy routes, which U.S. forces were using for the first time, revealed a previously unseen degree of coordination among insurgent groups, said Army Col. Dana J.H. Pittard, the commander of a brigade-size task force now assembling for possible combat operations against the forces of radical Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr in or near the holy city of Najaf.

"The dropping of the bridges was very interesting, because it showed a regional or even a national level of organization," Pittard said in an interview. He said insurgents appeared to be sending information southward, communicating about routes being taken by U.S. forces and then getting sufficient amounts of explosives to key bridges ahead of the convoys.

(more)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9532-2004Apr13?language=printer
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. "A Regional or Even A Natioanl Level of Organization"
Yup, it's officially a country-wide revolution...
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. 'National level of organization'! Wow, that's something the ...
Bushistas lack.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Bring Em On" shouted the Corrupt Chimpanzee
My friends at Halliburton will fix* them

*(Cost plus of course)
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. You have been posting some very good stories today Barrett808
Thanks for the effort.

Don

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Why, thank you!
Just a dedicated (obsessive) newshound.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. Pittard, the connoisseur!
I believe he would give the dropped bridges two thumbs up!

Damned decent of him to share this.

From the article:
When we first got here, it was just IEDs," the roadside bombs known as improvised explosive devices, "and mortars," said Sgt. James Amyett, a scout with the 1st Infantry Division who arrived in Iraq just over a month ago. "Then all of a sudden, it's full-scale ambushes."

He was speaking in the predawn hours Tuesday while his convoy recovered from a roadside attack just west of the Euphrates River that began with a bomb and was followed by bursts of red tracer fire from a machine gun and several volleys of rocket-propelled grenades. One U.S. soldier was mortally wounded in the attack; another soldier and a civilian contractor were less seriously injured.

In a separate ambush east of Najaf, a group of fighters suspected to be part of Sadr's militia let a group of six U.S. armored vehicles pass their position, then placed obstacles across the highway behind them, cutting off their line of retreat. The armored vehicles were forced to move forward across a bridge. While they were on the bridge approaching a police checkpoint, Iraqi fighters, some of them wearing police uniforms, began firing on them. No U.S. troops were hurt in the incident.

In another departure being studied by U.S. military intelligence, groups of fighters launched synchronized attacks Friday on several U.S. and Iraqi installations in Baqubah, a provincial capital north of Baghdad. By simultaneously striking U.S. troops at the police station, the provincial governors' office and a U.S. military office, the insurgents displayed not only a considerable amount of planning and positioning but also a level of aggressiveness far beyond the roadside bombings and firing of rocket-propelled grenades that occur daily in Iraq.
(snip)
Thanks for this article. Sounds as if they're getting very serious.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Looks like Hussein's Urban Warfare training paid off...
These are standard Urban Warfare tactics, especiialy this one:

In a separate ambush east of Najaf, a group of fighters suspected to be part of Sadr's militia let a group of six U.S. armored vehicles pass their position, then placed obstacles across the highway behind them, cutting off their line of retreat. The armored vehicles were forced to move forward across a bridge. While they were on the bridge approaching a police checkpoint, Iraqi fighters, some of them wearing police uniforms, began firing on them. No U.S. troops were hurt in the incident.
The US troops are just damned lucky they didn't have that bridge wired with explosives. That could have been a devestating attack. Maybe next time they will...
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. straight outta the seven samurai
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. pardon me???
"The dropping of the bridges was very interesting, because it showed a regional or even a national level of organization,"

So our military did not anticipate the destruction of bridges that were used by convoys???? They did not think it necessary to get control of these bridges ahead of time?????

Perhaps we can send over a bunch of old WWII movies where the bad guys destroyed bridges to disrupt our convoys.

Does it take a military genius to figure this out????

This is one bad dream.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Sophistication? Pleeeeeeeeeze!
What do you do when you've been invaded and want to disrupt your enemy's push and you don't have $1 billion per day at your disposal?

Blow up the bridge near you.

Duh.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. agree with ya, but why aren't the troops securing the bridges?
this seems like a no-brainer.
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Frederic Bastiat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. They'd be sitting ducks n/t
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judge_smales Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. why aren't the troops securing the bridges?

Because we don't have the troops to spare for such an operation.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. You're right Judge
Seems like a certain Army CINC--General Eric K. Shinseki, I believe told them they'd need 250,000 troops to pull it off. He was subsequently fired from his post and forced to retire, by the criminal RumDumb

HOW his WORDS NOW HAUNT THEM!!!!!
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Because they are all guarding the oil pipelines...
Too bad bridges didn't make it on the priority list.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I think it's the operational capability that's "sophisticated"
Communicating that a convoy is underway in a particular direction with a particular destination, marshaling the resources (people and explosives), targeting specific bridges, and executing the plan -- this end-to-end capability really does demonstrate sophistication.
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hrm...
To me it seems that would need a functional phone and a truckful of explosives, that could get there faster than the convoy. Is that so sophisticated that it can best our army? That worries me....
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Iraqi operational intelligence was/is actually very good
I remember reading an article written by a US commander shortly after the invasion about an Iraqi intelligence 'base' or office that the US had raided, and discovered a complete 'sand table' of the region, showing the precise location of almost all the American forces.

While they communicated this information through often low tech means, the process they used was sophisticated and very accurate.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. The problem is the US military views Iraqis as sub-human
So they are constantly being surprised when Iraqis do logical maneuvers. The military is paying for this big time.

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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Didn't they fight the Iranians for eight years?
And then the U.S. (sorry- the coalitions) twice?

It seems like they would have lots of experience with operations and since they are a well-educated country on the whole it is no surprise to me.

Then again, I thought it would have been good to have planned a bit for the occupation prior to invading, but that's just me...
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. People forget that Iraq has been at war almost continuously for 25 years
And the people of Iraq suffered through 12 years of brutal sanctions and dictatorship. They are a very tough, war-hardened people.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Barrett Change the IRAQ To Nam See Below
People forget that Viet-Nam has been at war almost continuously for 25 years. And the people of Viet-Nam suffered through 12 years of brutal sanctions and dictatorship.(Japan/France) They are a very tough, war-hardened people.

Vietnam redux-- 1963
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Heh. Good one, Saigon. n/t
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. The US military
thinks this about all their enemies - just look at VietNam. Those of us brought up in the '50s were brainwashed about how superior we were to all other countries and then we got our asses kicked in Viet Nam with bamboo sticks and booby traps. Don't tell me this isn't the same thing as Viet Nam. All that happy horseshit about "shock and awe" and the "mighty US military" was to get the populace hyped up for another war. It worked for awhile, but the support is falling way off. Sometimes when you are the underdog you are forced to get very creative and sometimes when you are too cocksure, you get taken down a peg.
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myccrider Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. More combat experience?
I suspect that many of the Iraqi's have more actual combat experience than many of the Americans, also. After all, their soldiers/officers have been through decades of war, both external & internal. IIANM their officer corps were considered to be experienced and very professional.

A few of these combat vets mixed in with/leading the young mujahadeen could be pretty effective.

OTOH, many of the mujahadeen are experienced in underground resistance against these same 'vets'! Kinda ironic if we've pushed some of these old enemies into an alliance!

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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is Not a Popular Uprising lied the aWol Chimp!
What a sad state we're in. Mmmhmm Nader, no difference between Pugs and Dems. If president Gore was in office we'd be no better off - uh huh, yeah right. We are so screwed in this country. * is OBL's wet dream.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well, gee, I wonder where they learned these tactics
Maybe from some of the mujahadeen who used similar tactics against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

And where did the mujahadeen learn these tactics? Some they came up with on their own, but they learned a lot from the CIA.

How can anyone be surprised when Muslim militants use tactics that we taught them?
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mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. How are the Iraqis communicating over long distances?
You would think the US military could intercept any
traditional communication link.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. "You Would Think"
In 2002 a military wargame was played, it was supposed to deal with an invasion of Iraq. The commander of the defenders was a retired Marine Corps Major General, by using unconventional warfare he was able to use boats and planes as bombs and sunk more then half of the naval fleet, killing over 5,000.

He utilized chemical and biological weapons on areas with large troop concentrations, before they left their staging areas, once again causing large casualties to ground troops. This also showed that the ground troops were not well trained in the use of chemical detection and protective equipment.

The fleet was re-floated, and restrictions were placed on the general,
so instead of using conventional communications, like cell phones, and radios, he issued orders by motorcycle messengers and by using the calls to prayers from the Mosques. Again the attackers were defeated, so once again he was limited to such a point that he was not able to react to anything at all. So he quit and sat and watched as the fixed game was of course won by the US forces.

The biggest problem is that US forces don't control their MSR(main supply route), the never did, and the insurgents are using this knowledge against them. It takes some engineering skills to destroy a bridge, you can't just put an explosive near a bridge and wish for it to do the job. You have to know where to put it so that it does the most damage. By the way has anyone figured out where the Iraqi Army combat engineers went to, when Proconsul Bremer disbanded the Iraqi army? I would say that they have a new job!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Reminds me of Japan and Midway.....
I wonder if there are more parallels between the U.S. now and Japan pre-WW II?

Japan played war games and always lost the battle of Midway. Figuring that the Americans were dumber than they were, they attacked anyway, and lost just like they had during the game.

Earlier, Japan, convinced that we would preemptively strike them, attacked Pearl Harbor, figuring that they would cripple our Navy. We regrouped and won.

Are we playing out the same game from the other side? The U.S., convinced (or pretending to be) that Iraq has WMD, preemptively strikes, planning to cripple their Army. The Iraqis regroup and attack us a year later. How will it end?

Maybe it's not a quagmire. Maybe Iraq intends to win decisively.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. "Maybe Iraq intends to win decisively."
Biblically, even.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. more like NANKING
japan lost midway because we were reading their mail - and yes we were reading their mail well before midway as well - which can be decisive when correctly used and the enemy is kept in the dark.

Yamamoto knew japan couldn't beat a long drawn out battle with the us and knew the ONLY think he could hope to give his masters was TIME.

he knew he only had one choice, the long shot of catching the pacific fleet napping in harbor... but he didn't expect it to be very successful only if they were very LUCKY would they be able to COMPLETELY catch us by suprise he surmised.

well, to his great amazement he was luckier than he had hoped for by steaming across the pacific 'undetected' for two weeks to 'sneak attack' us by catching us 'sleeping on watch' while at the same time we were actively provoking japan very agressively.

well, we had an ace up our sleve in that our carriers were all out to sea that day.

you see, we needed to get into that war and we didn't want to tip our hand that we knew they were comming since we were reading their mail and that would certainly come in handy later in winning the war.

:hi:

peace

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. I would say you are Right
Except that's ----Viceroy Bremer--- Sir: :-)

Actually a very good analysis, especially if a few of their friends and family, who have been killed, the revenge for which will give them further inspiration.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. I thought
That Proconsul sounded more imperial, but I'll make sure to get it right the next time. :-)

I was a combat engineer for about a year before I reclassified, and other then laying out a mine field, learning how to take down a bridge was what I loved doing the best.

If the US command had done their homework, the MP's should have been the ones responsible for the security of the MSR. If that had happened Jessica Lynch's unit wouldn't have made that fatal turn, that and giving the unit commander a real map!!!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Murphy's Law in action w/ Lynch
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 11:53 PM by saigon68
The unit apparently did not know even simplest small arms drill. Rifles jamming etc.

Never would have happened in my unit.

They would have been able to put their small arms together in the dark if I were in charge.

Oh and Proconsul works too, I guess with Caesar Cheney, one would want a proconsul or 2.

Viceroy is more 19th century, and more in keeping with the british, who got their asses run out of there recently in this century
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Chain of Command not all at Fault
In regards to Lynch's unit, it was pretty obvious that they had very little training with small arms drills and field maintenance. This was probably the first time that they spent more then a week with their assigned weapons.

The chain of command should have kept on them to keep the weapons clean, and the soldiers should have had the sense to do it without being told!

This never happened in my unit during Desert Storm, and we were combat support, just like Lynch's unit was. All of the NCO's, from the 1st Shirt down to the squad leaders, made sure that weapons, protective masks and chem gear was up to the job.

I used to work as a unit armorer in my first duty assignment, it's where I learned to appreciate keeping my equipment clean and serviceable.

I guess Viceroy works. ;)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well ..That tells me that some of them have been watching
WWII movies..

It is sad that they are willing to damage their own infrastructure to deter the occupation..

I think Bush has "misunderestimated" yet again :(
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. It sounded like they left enough room for donkey carts, though. Big
equipment like transports can't get through but as long as their is a wide enough space for a donkey cart or foot traffic the Iraqi's can still get through.

We Americans always underestimate other people intelligence and skills. And we never remember how the "rag tags" fought off the British. What arrogance we have. Maybe if we weren't so arrogant we could deal with situations before they come to war like this.

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liarliartieonfire Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. Watching Old War Movies..
Didn't they do this on "Kelly's Heroes"?
Great Movie!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. Amazing how imaginative humans become to protect themselves,...
,...from aggressive forces.

Geez, imagine that :(

Apparently, the provocators are entirely too accustomed to having their way, even in their light-weight struggles towards that GOD of power they LOVE.

They deserve everything that they get. I cannot feel any sympathy for these self-centered freaks. I can only wish/pray/dream that they get what they deserve.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Chicken Hawks Vs Hard Core Veterns 25 Years Plus.
We got the weapons, they got Hearts and Minds.

Guess what, we lose. They lose. We all lose.

So goes Denial and Anger. Done it again. Compromise at the end of the tunnel. No Light in sight.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
39. SOPHISTICATION? Who do they think they're dealing with, smurfs?
Edited on Thu Apr-15-04 10:43 PM by rocknation
I remember this attitude from the Viet Nam days--they were written off as gooks, a bunch of backward undersized rice-eating hut dwellers armed with not much more with sharp sticks. What's the problem, colonel--are they too dark-skinned to be capable of sophistication, or too non-Christian? Saddam's palaces, international airport and oil fields didn't build themselves!

:headbang:
rocknation

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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
40. I wonder how long it will be before there are tank traps...
...under the streets of Fallujah and other cities...

In cities with any sort of subterranean infrastructure (sewer, water mains, etc. , highly effective tank traps would be very simple to make... just dig out from under the street a large enough pit and stabilize the pavement just enough to hold a 2 ton pick up but once a 30-50 ton tank drives down the street, the pavement collapses... if the pit is filled with oil and someone from a nearby building or barricade throws a molotav cocktail... that tank would be toast.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. This stuff is well known.
Expect more outrages in the months to come.

THE BARBECUE SEASON IS ONLY BEGINNING
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
44. Its a lack of empathy
along with the arrogance. And a lack of understanding of human nature. People are basically the same anywhere you go. They care about the same things and will fight for the same things. And even people who aren't well educated can have good 'common sense' and know the shit from shinola that this administration dishes out. That is why so many people on DU and other places KNEW Iraq would go bad if bush did what bush always does. People who need to feel superior to other life usually get their comeuppance sooner or later.
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