Catholic priests defy Church orders to stay away from liberal Mass

Source: Detroit Free Press

Catholics at the conference defended their conference and Mass, saying they are in accordance with the laws and values of Catholicism.

“He didn’t violate Canon law,” John Hushon, of Florida, a lead organizer of the conference, said. “We went right down the straight and narrow.”

The Mass was part of a weekend conference that's drawn some 2,000 liberal Catholics from around the world who are upset at the rightward turn of the Catholic Church. They want lay people to have more say in church decision making. Many also want discussion about women, gay, and married priests, and greater accountability on the issue of child abuse by priests. The conference came on the 35th anniversary of a conference in Detroit led by the late Cardinal John Dearden, former Archbishop of Detroit, a leader seen as progressive by liberal Catholics. To them, he represented the spirit of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, which they say recent leadership has abandoned.

Read more: http://www.freep.com/article/20110612/NEWS05/110612013/Catholic-priests-defy-Church-orders-stay-away-from-liberal-Mass?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

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Here's more on the group and what they stand for:

http://americancatholiccouncil.org/bill-of-rights/

Which reminds me of a Queen song:

Lyrics to Fight From The Inside :

Hey you boy, hey you
Hey you boy, think that you know what you're doing
You think you're gonna set things to rights
You're just another picture on a teenage wall
You're just another sucker ready for a fall

You gotta fight from the inside
Attack from the rear
Fight from the inside
You can't win with your hands tied
Fight from the inside
Ooh, ooh, aah
Fight from the inside
Right down the line

Hey you boy, hey you
Hey you boy, think that you know what you're doing
You think that out in the streets is all true
You're just another, monney-spinner tool
You're just another, fool

You gotta fight from the inside
Attack from the rear
Fight from the inside
You can't win with your hands tied
Fight from the inside
Ooh, ooh, aah
Fight from the inside
Right down the line
Right down the line

Folk - let's see if this gives them spine.

The Vatican and its handpicked bishops would have everybody else leave the church before it changes. They are that certain of their own holiness and possession of the truth. Of this, I'm sure. Liberal and moderate Catholics are better off starting the schism now.

The farther they get from the creepy men's club that's the Catholic church's central hierarchy, the better off they'll be.

See if you don't look back and see a total waste of your time.

I have my issues with the church, but overall, know I am a much better/happier person because of it. However, to each their own. I don't need to belittle others to make myself feel better.

...with downright hurtful doctrine and dogma that have NOTHING to do with the message Christ came to proclaim. Further, it doesn't understand why people are leaving, and for that matter, I don't think it really cares why people are leaving. Those of us who disagree with it have been told time and again we're not particularly welcome. And that's fine. I don't need a self-imposed arbiter of God's grace and mercy coming between me and my faith.

But I'm glad it's working for you. We all have our own spiritual lighthouses. As for me, I walked away a few years ago and don't regret it for a minute.

my sister is now married to the person she loves.

Or I need to belittle you?

Remember, the RCC looks quite different from the outside. Remarkably different. If somebody giving you a glance of how it looks makes you feel belittled, maybe you've misidentified the source of your belittlement.

My message was to liberal or moderate Catholic. Nothing I've said applies to you if you're conservative and actually, have no real moral problem with anything the church hierarchy says or does. In fact, if you're that and I make you feel belittled, why are you even in this conversation? The liberals and moderates are going to find the church hierarchy intransigent as a rock. If you don't mind that, I have no advice. So, if that's the way you feel, my message wasn't for you.

And 35 years doesn't prove anything. You have no alternate life for yourself to compare your happy one to. Try 30 more and watch what unfolds from the RCC. Somehow, I don't think it's going to be as wonderful as the first 35.

"See if you don't look back and see a total waste of your time."

Again, there are issues I have with the church. However, I see my church feeding and clothing poor across the city, regardless of religious views. I see my church building more houses in our city for the poor that Habitat for Humanity and the government, combined. I see my church doing more for the poor and less fortunate in Omaha than ANY other private or public organization. While I adamently disagree with the curch on a few of their positions, NONE of these are ever mentioned at the church I attend (I can't think of a single time gay lifestyles has ever been mentioned).

Thus, I disagree with your premise that spending our time and money coordinating and serving the poor is "a total waste of (my) time."

But you're Church should actually be referred to as your parish shouldn't it? So, it's your parish and not "the Church" that are doing all these good deeds, right? Because, in DC recently "the Church" decided if they passed a gay marriage law, they would actually STOP feeding the homeless and poor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4144131

Though your parish Church may be doing great things, there are plenty of instances where "the Church" isn't so great and some change would be welcome from an outside point of view.

Our parish does a lot as well, but the bigger projects (building houses, etc.) are done by the diocese.

Yes, the Church does have a good, charitable arm. I'll admit this is true regardless of what I say forthwith.

However, it also has a phenomenally effective propaganda system. Just pointing why I'm a little skeptical. I'm not saying that its charity is all false or all true, just that statistics it cites to its believers should be independently verified before you're awestruck.

This, however, is part of what I meant by the Church looking different from the outside. Often the accounting does agree with the claim, or perhaps the popular belief.

I also need to point out that the aggregate effect of the Church taking donations and tithes through the centuries and doing charity was that the poor as a class never got better. Meanwhile, the Church, especially the central hierarchy, did get wealthier. Many of those holy men running it did very well for themselves, oaths of poverty notwithstanding. And these were the ones considered holy, not the corrupt ones.

So, besides some sporadic recent successes, how has the Church changed in any fundamental way to make its charitable work more effective than it has been in two millennia?

Lastly, I'll point out also that most religions have a charitable arm, not just the Christian ones. The charitable designs will be more successful for some religions in some places than in others. At times very successful. That doesn't mean the part is in any way representative of the whole.

I am in the fortunate situation of being a CPA and, in a former job, being involved with auditing them.

The reason I am proud of what we do is that, as a church, we look to donate everything we get after paying operational costs. I know many other denominations do NOT do this. One of the worst, in my opinion, is Baptist. My wife was a nanny for a couple in a wealthy neighborhood (he was a Doctor and she was a dentist). Right across the street from them was a Baptist minister from the poorest part of town. He easily have over half a million dollars in cars.

While there will always be corrupt behavior (it is made up of humans, who will always be corrupt, as a whole), I can truly see what we do in the community. There are not too many other churches in town where I can see that.

most of this organizations belong to the RCC --

I'd also disagree that male-supremacist religion is about "holiness and possession of truth."

Basically it is the underpinning for patriarchy -- and gives license to elites to exploit

nature, natural resources, animal-life and even other human beings according to various myths

of "inferiority."

That's what "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" are all about --





Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =

Organized Patriarchal Religion -- and its economic invention =

Capitalism =

The Unholy Trinity

I thought that was clear by the fact I'm an atheist. Really, what religious people call holy I find creepy. As for truths, I'd call them firmly believed lies.

I can argue a lot about the nature of the "patriarchy," but I agree that the Catholic church is run by celibate men who have no use for nor any connection with women.

But would also like to emphasize for all of us that we all have the right to

question and challenge organized patriarchal religion at any time, but especially

when it is brought out into the public arena.


Recovering Catholic here --

and my apologies again -- !! :)

I wonder at times why they never release the number of souls they have saved ..........

That's the way Betty Friedan put it in a comment she made about the RCC

-- nothing that by then they were acknowleging the loss of Canada, Western Europe,

America -- and were finding their new fortunes in Africa and China!!

He has lost control of the "message" in a political/public-relations manner.

Yay for Rev. Bob Wurm and John Hushon :thumbsup:

people and you're de-frocked and/or excommunicated*, rape a couple kids and we'll get you a new assignment.


*ROY BOURGEOIS

http://www.soaw.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=413

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Bourgeois

:thumbsup:

To them, he represented the spirit of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, which they say recent leadership has abandoned.

More like the successors to Pope John XXIII who put Vatican II in place to democratize the

church -- to give it a humane and compassionate face -- and to confirm to members that they

had every right to use their free thought and personal conscience to decide for themselves

whether or not to use birth control --- put a coup in place on Vatican II.


IMO, we've had a few CIA Popes -- and the Vatican intelligence networks have long been

of interest to the CIA -- and said to be better than their own networks.


Couple that with at least Poppy Bush as our CIA president and life gets very interesting

indeed --

The Church is becoming more and more like a private, exclusive, cultlike club that excludes more than it includes. It claims to be the "church Christ founded," but I seriously doubt Christ Himself would recognize this seriously screwed up organization.

Let Rome be Rome and let it have whatever's left once everybody gets kicked out.

they can keep those!

Beautiful stuff... eco-spirituality, feminism,

http://www.genesisfarm.org/resources.taf