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David Gill Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 06:22 AM
Original message
Moody's suggests U.S. eliminates debt ceiling
Source: Reuters

NEW YORK, July 18 (Reuters) - Ratings agency Moody's on Monday suggested the United States should eliminate its statutory limit on government debt to reduce uncertainty among bond holders.

The United States is one of the few countries where Congress sets a ceiling on government debt, which creates "periodic uncertainty" over the government's ability to meet its obligations, Moody's said in a report.

"We would reduce our assessment of event risk if the government changed its framework for managing government debt to lessen or eliminate that uncertainty," Moody's analyst Steven Hess wrote in the report.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/18/usa-debt-moodys-idUSN1E76H00620110718



I would normally say this has no chance. It would help President Obama and Republicans are trying to avoid doing that at all cost. Bit it would also help the markets. So which do Republicans love more- the stock market, or bashing Obama? I'm honestly not sure,,,
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cutlassmama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with Moody's. It's a pointless exercise in futility.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. So do I. But Moody's is a rating agency. Does borrowing more increase our ability to repay?
Our out of control spending leaves us no alternative at this but to raise debt ceiling, but that is not the concern of a rating agency.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Our out of control spending...
... is it out of control? We have no power over it? Just OUTTA CONTROL!!!!

We could stop making planes to fight the USSR, or something like that, y'know....
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. LOL. Point taken. We're the ones who are out of control. Our spending just proves it.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Two factors influence credit
ability to repay, and willingness to do so. Removing the debt limit removes a significant barrier to the second of these items, although as you point out it has little to do (either way) with our ability to pay.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. It's a pointless exercise?
I think it's great. Of course there is a political farce going on, but in the end the population right now is aware that we are spending ourselves into oblivion and something needs to be done. If not for the debt ceiling, this would not have happened.
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Yes, it is.
The claim that we are "spending ourselves into oblivion" is a right-wing lie. The principal problem is the Bush tax cuts. As for spending, Obama engineered a temporary spending increase for the stimulus package, which saved a couple million jobs. At this point, higher spending is largely the result of our imperialistic wars, plus the automatic increase that a bad economy brings about in needs-based programs like Medicaid.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. i stand corrected..
yes its not so much the spending as it is the tax cuts.. and i agree about the military spending. but, we still can not continue to pile on debt like this.. we can't.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ah, now it becomes clearer. Has Larry Summers weighed in yet?
Edited on Mon Jul-18-11 06:37 AM by No Elephants
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh yeah, we really need to take policy advice from Moody
The rating agency that rated all that sub prime crap as triple A.

It think we could reduce uncertainty by bringing jobs back too but I don't see Moody pushing for that.

What a scam.
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Ragnarok Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. Up it to...
...$840 trillion. We all know it will never be repaid in full at this point anyhow.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. It has always been a stupid rule.
We can always print money which makes the debt ceiling pointless.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Indeed, one of the more transparent of the many fake issues created by the Congress
in it's desperate struggle to avoid responsibility for the mis-governance of the country.
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. Moody's is a joke
They were selling ratings. Giving triple AAA rating to banksters' toxic junk. Warren Buffet needs to be investigated.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. that may be, but even a blind pig stumbles over an ear of corn sometimes.
they're spot on on this call. the entire debt ceiling concept is idiotic and should be done away with.

if congress doesn't want to borrow that much, it should address it in the normal budget process.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yes, but plenty of other people and organizations with greater credibility.
This is Moody's area of expertise; and more borrowing by an overburdened debtor does not increase the creditworthiness of its debts; and Moody;s executives should be in jail, not purporting to dictate policy. S

o, the threat of downgrading our rating, following by this seems suspect.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. on the contrary, more borrowing does improve creditworthiness
when the alternative is a reckless, voluntary and premature default.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Agree on Moody's. Fat chance on Buffet while Dems are in control.
Besides, I want him to adopt me. Even though he is stingy with his kids, hr does give them jobs in his foundations.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Why not? It's meaningless anyway
we rack up whatever debt we want until we get to the current arbitrary ceiling then we vote to raise it.

Repeat ad infinitum. It's never once stopped us from incurring more debt so it is pointless.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hey a smart call for once by Moody's
Edited on Mon Jul-18-11 09:31 AM by fujiyama
I agree that spending should be addressed during the normal budget process. And it's better to just use debt as a percentage of GDP as an indicator rather than a ceiling which has been constantly raised anyways. What we have going on now is unacceptable and it's incredible to hear of default being considered as a response to the deficit - all to avoid raising taxes on those who will hardly be impacted by it. Complete insanity. It makes the country look like a banana republic. Teabaggers and republicans in general are very immature, petty, and selfish so I'm certain they'd rather see Obama fail, nation be damned.



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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. If that is legal then it most definitely should be done. nt
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roomfullofmirrors Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. bad idea.
Edited on Mon Jul-18-11 09:52 AM by roomfullofmirrors
the only thing backing our currency is faith in our government, our system, and our way of life. removing the debt limit would send a message which would undermine that faith imo. How much faith would you have in a government that can't pay its bills without borrowing or printing trillions of dollars?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Removing the debt imit would be catastrophic. Even Republicans in Congress
have admitted that on tv when an interviewer does his or her job well. Then, they backpedal to, "Yes, but August 2 is not a real deadline.

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roomfullofmirrors Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. "Removing the debt imit would be catastrophic." I agree100%
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. I don't often agree with Moody's but this time they are right.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes, but please see Reply 17. Since when does Moody's "suggest"
policy to Congress, esp. after threatening to downrate us?

This is close to blackmail, regardless whether Moody;s is right or not. They have no business, pardon the pun, doing this. They need to butt out.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. It would definitely end the political plays around the debt ceiling but
I wonder if this might not be a problem in that it is deregulating another area of business. Are we capable of regulating ourselves?
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
26. How about this instead:
"Americans suggest the US eliminates Moody's" }(
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digitaln3rd Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-18-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. If you keep raising the debt ceiling anyway
What is the point of having it?

Serious question.
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