CNN Breaking - Zapatera Pulling Spanish Troops from Iraq

Wolf says it's about 1300 troops!

guess she got slapped down again.

and they have no stomach to turn their peace mission into a holy war.

Zapatero delivers on his promise to the Spanish people

You think Bush will get it?

Get a clue

Zapatera said he was going to bring the troops home....

and like Zapatero, he will bring the troops home and not pursue a Vietnam-style "stay the course."

I am very happy and relieved for the Spanish troops, their families, and loved ones.

Guess who will have to pick up the slack?

anticipated. Senor Zapatero was just inaugurated as the Prime Minister (yesterday, I think).

He certainly didn't wait long. Now watch the Coalition crumble.

1300 good people will be out of harm's way.

,...I wonder who's next,...GB?

(Great British public) start screaming and yeling and demanding words and action from their Labour MP's.

From the Sydney Morning Herald
Dated Friday March 26

Ambassador: Iraq withdrawal would be dangerous

The US Ambassador to Australia, Tom Schieffer, today warned of dangerous consequences of a premature withdrawal of Australian troops from Iraq.
Mr Schieffer said these were difficult times in Iraq and care needed to be taken over how actions could be interpreted.
He said he hoped Federal Opposition leader Mark Latham would reconsider his promise to bring Australian troops home from Iraq . . . .
Mr Schieffer said a precipitous withdrawal of troops by the international community now could have very serious consequences.

Read more.

Last time Bushie diplomats used the term serious consequences, it was part of a phoney justication to invade a sovereign state.

not a damn fucking thing. does every anglo-based society on earth have
its head up its ass? Thank god Canada has some fucking sense.

And I don't mean this as some dumb slur to the French. The need to consider Quebec's opinions (and votes) has frequently kept our politicians from going along with mad schemes like Iraq.

which won't be held until August at the earliest

but we won't be hearing that talk from him anytime soon...

I think we will be hearing that parroted from him.

How many names does Kerry want to see on the Iraq War Memorial?

Stop catering to those that supported this war, take a big clue from Zapatero, and get the hell out!

Kerry was never my first choice, and I'm finding it more and more difficult to work up any enthusiasm for him. His statements lately, about Iraq and about Rantisi, and hanging out with Lieberman. it seems like lately he just puts his finger to the wind and goes with the whorefest du jour.

I wish I could feel more optimistic about our choices.

edit> spelling. Cripes! I can't do spell check because I get a runtime error.

I'm awaiting the onslaught of nincompoops. "Spain is an axis of evil", "Spain hates our freedoms", "Spain is aiding the enemy", etc. Just wait... there will be people smashing bottles of Sangria at a Clear Channel station near you. '

The former administration there should have LISTENED to their own people, who said.. overwhelming.. do NOT send troops!!! Had our dipshit leaders listened to US and the rest of the world, we wouldn't be in the disaster we're in now!

if freepers and repugs will start pouring pasta down the gutters like they did with the french wine...

Is spagehtti and lasagna going to be banned from menus all over the coutnry...?

Are Italian resturants going to be vandalized...?

Italy and Spain are different countries.

Spanish Fly when they go out on dates.

They will want to rename Spanish River to Freedom River. It is a good thing the U.S. never took up the British useage of spanner, rather than wrench. "Hand me my freedomer, son."

other countries there will do the same. Let Bush solve his own mess. He was warned but was too arrogant to listen. He should put his flightsuit on and go to Iraq, and join all the troops he's sent there.

Spain should be proud of their choice. They should be careful though, about the blow-back from the US and Israel. Black-bag jobs on the way.
The Islamic clerics should call for immediate cease of all act of hostility toward Spain and its citizens. This has to get out so that the blow-back won't be blamed on the Islamists.

now that's some balls in Catholic Spain, the birthplace of Opus Dei!

About a third of Spain hates the Catholic Church because of their support of Franco. It's unfortunate that the Catholic Church did that, but they hurt themselves so luckily they'll never do it again.

... wasn't limited to Father Coughlin. :puke:

I hope Kerry is taking note of the courage of Zapatero. Kerry is going to Miami this week, and I'm afraid he will pander to the Miami hate-motivated Republicans - while denying hundreds of millions of Americans freedom to travel!!

That while he supports the embargo, he wants to lift the travel ban.

Its us non Cuban AMERICANS that are travel banned by the US government.

Miami Cubans can and do go to Cuba for vacations and family visits.

Plus, in addition to Cuban resident aliens and Cuban-Americans, visiting foreigners can hop on a plane from Miami to Havana & back every day. United, Continental and AA.

Only non Cuban Americans and non Cuban resident aliens are banned from going to Cuba by US law.

Just watched MTP tape and was very encouraged by Kerry's answer. He made it clear that current policy is not working, and he did say he favors freedom to travel!!!

It made my day!

Zapatero Sticks by Pledge on Troops in Iraq

"PA"

The 1,300 Spanish troops in Iraq, stationed in Diwaniya and the Shiite holy city of Najaf, come under rifle and mortar fire almost every day from militiamen loyal to the fiery anti-US cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

A poll by the radio station Cadena Ser released showed 72% of Spaniards support Zapatero’s plans on Iraq.

And Spaniards are wasting no time in exerting pressure – a rally is planned for tonight outside Parliament to urge Zapatero to keep his word.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2788121

Weren't Spanish soldiers the only ones in that city and the only coalition casualties there? If they leave, I bet those 2500 Americans will do to that city what they are doing to Fallujah.

Bad news.

and it seems to me that Zapatero wants no part of the genocide Krazy Kimmett is planning on Najaf.

Or whatever screwball name they'll come up with to make a slaughter in Najah sound noble.

Our troops are screwed as far as I'm concerned and they need to pull the troops, if not completely out, at least to a fall back condition until somebody can come up with a actual strategy over there. Something more than "You'll see" or "We need to soldier on". There is such a thing as a stragetic retreat isn't there?

I don't want us to be in Iraq but I think that as long as this stupid Admin has put our troops in harms way, they should at least put someone in charge with a coherent plan beyond 'kill anything that might kill you'.

Just the kind of guy Bush and Rummy would love. Brace.

Zapatero says that even though he had intended to keep the troops in Iraq until the June 30 handover, it now appears that the UN won't be able to have a stable Iraqi government in place, therefore Spain has decided to get out of Iraq now. Zapatero has ordered his Defense Minister to bring the troops home "within days"

Zapatero reiterated his support for Iraqi reconstruction and to work in coalition on the war on terror.

Here is the story from the Spanish daily El Mundo:

RUEDA DE PRENSA SORPRESA EN LA MONCLOA
Zapatero anuncia la retirada inmediata de las tropas de Irak

ELMUNDO.ES

MADRID.- El presidente del Gobierno, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, ha anunciado la retirada inmediata de las tropas españolas de Irak. Esta retirada se hará "en el menor tiempo y con la mayor seguridad posible" y se debe a las pocas perspectivas de que la ONU se haga cargo de la situación en Irak.

Zapatero ha comparecido con el ministro de Defensa, José Bono, y la vicepresidenta primera, María Teresa Fernández de la Vega. En una comparencia en la que no ha admitido preguntas, Zapatero ha dicho que esta mañana ha dado "orden de que las tropas regresen a casa".

El presidente del Gobierno ha recordado que ya en marzo de 2003 adquirió este compromiso "público" y lo reiteró el pasado mes de febrero. Asimismo, ha añadido que "con la información de que disponemos, no es previsible una resolución de la ONU" que se ajuste a las condiciones expuestas en el pasado por el PSOE para que los soldados españoles permanezcan en Irak.

<snip>

Zapatero ha señalado que el ministro de Defensa, José Bono, informará del proceso de regreso de las tropas en los próximos días. Además, ha anunciado la convocatoria de un Pleno del Congreso "para informar a los grupos de las razones y el alcance de la decisión, que he comunicado personalmente al líder de la oposición".

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2004/04/18/espana/1082303152.html

According to lunaville, 1 military diplomat, 2 soldiers and 8 intelligence agents

Good for them for saying enough is enough.

There is way more hispanic culture in the U.S. than French, alot harder to boycott, from Puerto Rico's JLo, Cuba's Gloria Estefan, Colombia's Shakira, Mexico's Salma Hayek, Spain's Penelope Cruz, etc etc etc,

Yo no quiero Taco Bell?

Ricky Martin, Marc Antony, Enriqe Iglesias,Thalia, Big Pun, George Lopez, Andy Garcia, Lou Diamond Philips...

It's amazing how so much of pop culture is either Latin or African american. The only white people making it are those who immitate African American artists, like Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, etc, (except for metal bands and folk.) If it weren't for Latin and African American culture we'd still be listening to Pat Boone on AM radio.

You do realize that our troops will have to replace those Spanish ones leaving right? That means either more will have to deployed or more will be extended. I thought we wanted more international support, not less.

International "support" for Iraq war is as much a fantasy as Bush's Coalition of the Willing!

Iraqis don't want foreign troops on their soil, period!

On everything else, I, like most of us immoral liberals, have been correct. But on this point, I was wrong, I honestly felt it would devolve into a civil war, which it may once there is no foreign military presence. But when this happened it became a new ballgame, and I cannot blame any country for getting the hell out while the getting is good.

It is called divide and conquer. BushCo thought if they kept saying it often enough, the Iraqis may believe it. BushCo fooled us, but all the Iraqi blogs say there is no animosity between the two sects.

I have actually read this in Riverbend, that the situation was more like Protestants and Catholics, but that about ten years ago the Pope had a whole bunch of protestants massacred . It can't be denied what Saddam Hussein and the Sunni Baath party did to the Shia after gulf war 1 . I think the answer lies more in the middle.

He was probably the only major journalist who talked about the notion of a Sunni-Shiite civil war as Western propaganda. I really think he's the only journalist in Iraq that is telling the truth. It pays to be unembedded.

And the Spanish troops pulling out will only make it harder on those who are still there.

We should not duplicate the mistakes of Vietnam and try to win a peace that is un-winnable.

Both Bush and Kerry have said so. We have to made do with what we got, and the Spanish leaving isn't helping.

and I am voting for Dennis in the Indiana primary.

Kerry delegates have some soul-searching to do: do they want Iraq to become a Democratic war?

if Kerry's "stay the course" becomes policy after he is sworn-in. Iraq then becomes his war! Kerry can either apply the lessons of Vietnam and bring the troops home as Zapatero will do with Spain's, or he can repeat the mistakes of Vietnam and chase that "light at the end of the tunnel."

Saying he won't "cut and run" to make sure he gets the conservative Dem vote and then once he's in move quickly to get us out.

Maybe I'm dreaming.

And I don't see him changing after the election.

Remembered for Iraqnam, not Uplifting Americans or whatever happy domestic programs he's running on.

IMO, he will be forced to pull out because the death toll will become unbearable to the squeamish Americans.

.
.
.

I'm sure JK could find "justification" to change his course as President he would have access to "classified" material he could use to justify withdrawing from Iraq.

And I seriously doubt that American citizens AND soldiers would raise a huge outcry if Kerry leaned towards letting the UN be fully in charge of any operations in Iraq.

Keep that dream!

I am.

90% of their population was against the war. I'm hoping that this will start a domino effect and that Bush will be forced to bring NATO and the UN into this. That is really the only hope, and a life is a life, so I can't say I'm less aggreived at a Spanish death than I would be at an American one. They are both terribly tragic, and the Spaniards blessed themselves with a leader who cares about the lives of his citizens, AND did so right after a terrorist attack that could have turned them further toward fascism (like it did here). The have definitely earned the right to pull their troops out without judgement from the U.S..

Willingly or not, dead or alive, we are leaving.
Nothing good can happen until we do.

I believe the Spanish were "holding the fort" (or bag) in Najaf. Now that they are leaving, there will be a vacuum. Our 2500 troops surrounding the city will probably move in. This will end badly for everyone. More US soldiers will die and this will be seen as the beginning of their "holy war" against us.

However, I'm glad Spain is leaving. We should leave too.

But I, myself, did go over there

If they are adults, it is their decision. What bearing does it have on this discussion?

I hear Blackwater has a few positions open.

push the timetable for spanish withdrawal from 6/30 to immediately.

edit spelling

to cheer too loudly and won't allow myself to celebrate until they actually leave, but fuck me is this a step in the right direction or what!

V

Nice to see a politician who keeps his word.

Spain can be proud!

I looked all over the place yesterday and only found 3 snippets on cbs marketwatch, that basically said, "Kimmit almost fainted" and that's it, no article or follow up.

Spaniards have "balls", the best news today so far!

for saying "stay the course" in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3637523.stm

Still nothing on CNN's website.

Another unfortunate piece of news tho...we've hit the 700 dead mark.
;(

From the BBC article linked by hippywife in post 68:

The United States has condemned the decision to bring the troops home, saying it is giving in to terrorism.

Like hell it is. The invasion and occupation has nothing to do with terrorism. This can't possibly be giving in to terrorism.

The agreement by Prime Minister Aznar to send troops to Iraq was giving into Bush and the neo-conservatives. The action by Zapatero to remove troops merely rights a wrong.

If, after all the Spanish troops are pulled out, Spain suffers another terrorist attack, who will be blamed then? And what will Zapatera do in response?

Later,

...that was "blamed" for the original bombings. So who (or what) will be blamed if, after the troops come home, there's more bombings?

P.S. Happy 50th posting to me!!!

:party:

Later,

work to round up the criminals involved, increase security, and continue to work with international partners to stop the growth of terrorism.

I suspect Zapatero won't invade a country unconnected with the attacks, further destabilizing a region and producing more terrorists than he stops. That's the demented, counterproductive, and incompetent Bush way of doing things, which Zapatero wisely opted out of for the good of the people of Spain.

Because it is all spin, spin, spin...

MAYBE Zapatero will work to fight terrorism in Spain with intelligence agencies and all the other resources they have. This is the task the whole world should be focused on now. This doesn't mean all attacks can be prevented, it just means that people need to try. Because we saw on 9/11 what can happen when leaders do not try to prevent these attacks, but (purportedly) let them happen and use them to their advantage.

But I bet what he won't do is invade, say, New Zealand, on the premise that they were behind the Madrid bombings and have WMD's. I'd put money on it, yes.

And they're doing better than we are. They've had homegrown terrorism for more than 30 years. Sometimes they've handled it well, sometimes not so well, but they have been paying attention to it for a long time, and work with other countries on the issue. There are already a number of suspects in the March 11 attacks in custody, and Zapatero is making his first state visit to Morocco, home of a number of the suspects. I'm pretty sure Spain could teach the U.S. a bit about fighting terrorism.

And I agree, Zapatero won't be attacking, say, New Zealand!

the consequences of AZNAR'S decision to join up with Bush, against the wishes of 90% of the Spanish population.

Terrorism is a top priority for the new government. Zapatero visited the victims of the March 11 attacks yesterday after being sworn in as president, and he has reiterated his commitment to fighting terrorism. Whatever he does, it has to work better than attacking Iraq did for us.

Here is an example of Democracy at its best. Congrats to Spain.

Will Republicans support a continued US presence in Iraq's killing fields when the Commander In Chief becomes a Democrat? You can bet that Rush, Hannity, Savage, North and the other kooks will be micro-criticizing everything that happens and blaming it on President Kerry. Especially, if the UN comes into Iraq in a leading role, I wonder if we may see Republicans actually demanding for a pull-out as well.

We can infer that this is what the U.S. has to look forward to:

06 April 2004

The group that claimed responsibility for the Madrid trains bombings has sent a fax threatening more attacks that will "make blood flow like rivers in Spain". Al-Qa'ida's European wing, Ansar al-Qa'ida, demanded Spain withdraw its troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and stopped supporting the United States and its allies.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=508882

Has Bush screwed us all, or what?

Damn. So what? At least they will be able to ride their trains without worrying about being blown up by al Qaeda again.

(I pray I don't eat my words, of course)

About the Iraqi roots of Al Qaeda. About all the Iraqis who flew those jets into buildings on 9/11.

The fight against terrorism is ongoing. At least Spain won't lose any more of its people in Iraq.

Do you think the Iraqi adventure has made us safer in the USA?

n/t

:crazy:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4870122§ion=news

MADRID (Reuters) - The process of withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq has begun and will be completed in less than six weeks, Spain's new government said on Monday.

Defense Minister Jose Bono said he would not give dates for the troop pullout for security reasons. But when asked at a news conference about a reported estimate of the time needed for withdrawal, Bono said: "Whoever said six to eight weeks was being imprudent because it will be less."

A military plane left on Monday with troops and equipment to help carry out the withdrawal, Bono said. Originally that flight was to have been for a routine troop rotation. State television said 194 soldiers were on board.

Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, sworn in as Spain's prime minister on Saturday, announced on Sunday he had given orders for Spain's 1,400 troops in Iraq "to come home in the shortest possible time and the greatest possible safety."

more..