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Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:13 PM
Original message
Calls In Syria For Weapons, NATO Intervention
Source: washingtonpost

By Liz Sly,

BEIRUT — The success of Libya’s rebels in toppling their dictator is prompting calls within the Syrian opposition for armed rebellion and NATO intervention after nearly six months of overwhelmingly peaceful demonstrations that have failed to dislodge President Bashar al-Assad.

The young Internet activists who have helped guide the uprising are arguing against the strategic shift. So, too, are the older dissidents who have long dreamed of the nonviolent revolution now unfolding against a regime that has proved every bit as brutal as the one led by Libya’s Moammar Gaddafi.

But some activists have concluded that peaceful protests alone will not be enough to overthrow a government that has used live ammunition, tanks and artillery to try to crush its opponents, killing more than 2,000 and imprisoning tens of thousands.

Protesters in recent days have carried banners calling for a no-fly zone over Syria akin to the one that facilitated the Libyan revolt. “We want any that stops the killing, whether Arab or foreign,” said one banner held by protesters in the beleaguered town of Homs.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/calls-in-syria-for-weapons-nato-intervention/2011/08/26/gIQA3WAslJ_story.html
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. So the overthrow of the government was their objective.
And these complete morons thought they wouldn't be cracked down on?


IF YOU ARE TRYING TO OVERTHROW YOUR GOVERNMENT, ANY GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD, YOU WILL WILL BE MET WITH OVERWHELMING FORCE!

Try doing in the US and see what happens.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:56 PM
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Hyperbole makes you look ridiculous.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah, and saying people had it coming
when they are killed for wanting freedom isnt?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Without reading the article, no less (these people saying this are a minority).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Ah, the elusive "freedom" argument.
Care to define your statement?
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. you are saying
people should expect to be punished (by death even) for trying to oppose their tyranical government... and you think thats okay?

its okay for people to murdered since they were standing up to their evil government?


and what if it happened here? what if you got shot in a protest? just another casualty right? you should have expected brute force.

silly.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Big difference between protest and trying overthrow the government.
But let's just look at what happens when protest do erupt and do not disperse as ordered. People are met with force from government authority. To say different is silly.

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No, you advocating for fascism and making excuses
for mass murder is ridiculous.

Especially on a DEMOCRATIC website.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Not really, ridiculous is effectively justifying Gaddafi's actions on trumped up charges of treason.
When merely walking outside with a sign that says "Down with Gaddafi" can force your entire town into collective punishment, etc.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Er, first of all these were peaceful protests that were met with violent force...
...and secondly, we overthrow our own government pretty much every year at various levels. They're called "elections" and they work rather nicely without violence. Generally not met with overwhelming force by the sitting government. Or all-caps.

No one said or thought they wouldn't be cracked down on. That's what autocratic regimes and military juntas generally do, it's expected. How nice of you to insult their intelligence and their understanding of their own country. How nice that you think so little of non-violent protestors in foreign countries (and this one, I presume) or the things they can manage to accomplish without matching violence with violence.

Regardless of what you think, you there in your cushy chair and the warm glow of your computer, of intervention on behalf of people half a world away. You piss all over their efforts to gain freedom from tyranny, you piss all over the efforts that gave you yours.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. We choose the lesser of two evils and vote personality.
We do not change our government.

I assume your statement of "autocratic regimes or military juntas" only crack down on protesters is your attempt at irony. All governments do it. Don't be naive.


And I'm sitting on a broken chair using an iPhone.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Did Barack Obama have US soldiers shoot Tea Party members?
Your continued apologism for fascist repression as "something all governments do" is a toxic turd of a lie, likely conjured in Gadaffi's bank accounts.

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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. You mean th tea party that had the proper government issued permits
that started when the government allowed and ended when it said to pack it up.

Do you have any video of them assembling without permit and refusing to leave when told by the police?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. There's no such thing as a permit to protest the Syrian government.
Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 09:34 PM by geek tragedy
You are making excuses for fascism. Pure and simple.

In your view, those who protest against a dictatorship that disallows protest are subversives against whom lethal force may be used.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Did you support the overthrow of Ben Ali? The overthrow of Mubarak?
Why the double standard?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, he supports the right of governments to crush dissent.
If he were advising Mubarak, there would be tens of thousands of dead Egyptian protestors in mass graves.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. If our President lost their mind, we'd be fully within our rights to march to Washington...
...and request his ouster.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The Tea Partiers have done exactly that.
No signs of mass executions yet.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. True, they've even come armed.
Which is the irony to end all ironies.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Again that's what elections are for. And to a lesser extent primaries, but that's another topic...
...for some other thread. ;)
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
35. No it's not.
Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 04:34 AM by tcaudilllg
Some mistakes are too grievous to wait for action on. Granted, Obama has not crossed that line... so far.

Not to mention you don't know how an election will turn out.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Has not crossed that line "so far?"
Are you really suggesting Obama may use the military to murder political opponents?
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. If they do it themselves I have no problem,
using our military, I have a problem.

It is the equivalent of grassroots vs AstroTurf. And certainly have a problem with having propaganda being used to try to sell it to me, especially if tax money is being used for it.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. OK, so had Mubarak actually had a military that supported him and had he massacred...
...the Egyptian protesters, you would not have had a problem with that.

Gotcha.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. How is that freedom working out for Egypt?
Why would they fire on the protesters when they were using them to oust mubarak. The military is in charge there now, let's see if that ever changes.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. The military has always been in charge, the US pays it billions.
It's a shame that Assad's military doesn't want to oust him.
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. 'Britain enacts blanket ban on protests'
Do you support the overthrow of David Cameron? Why the half-standard?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Has he started killing protesters?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here we go war #4 or more.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Doubtful. Syria is split and Assad has absolute military support.
A far cry from Gaddafi's crappy factionalized military where almost half his entire high cabinet resigned in the first week.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
37. Hopefully you are right. We cannot take much more of this stuff.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Syria is a client of Russia. Not gonna happen. nt
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. Who ever thought that Russia would help to keep us out of a war. nt
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
41. Won't happen. Syria and Iran also have an automatic mutual defense pact.
Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 12:32 PM by Xithras
The 2006 treaty is something straight out of pre-WWI Europe. An attack on one triggers an automatic declaration of war by the other. If we went to war with Syria, and Iran honored its treaty obligations and attacked NATO interests across the middle east in response... Well, it would be a clusterfuck unlike anything we've seen before. Imagine the US bases in Iraq and Afghanistan coming under heavy missile bombardment while the rebel elements in those countries suddenly gain the open support of an invading Iranian Army. We'd have one continuous war zone running from the Mediterranean coast to the western Pakistani border...and possibly the Indian border if the Pakistani Taliban take advantage of the opportunity to re-launch their own revolution (which was largely put down with U.S. support from bases in Afghanistan).

We're talking about warfare on a scale not seen since WW2.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. The posts calling for violence could just as well be psyops.
Just a thought.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. There will doubtless be psyoperators here
by now.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
40. Syrian activists warn against taking up arms

By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY - Associated Press | AP – 32 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Syrians should not take up arms in their uprising against President Bashar Assad or invite foreign military action like the intervention that helped topple the government of Libya, a prominent activist group warned Monday.


There have been scattered reports of some Syrians using automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and improvised weapons to repel government troops, but there appears to have been no organized armed resistance to Assad during the five-month uprising.


Calls to launch such a resistance have been rare, but they were more widely reported than usual by witnesses at protests in Syria on Friday, at the end of a week that saw Tripoli fall to rebels fighting Moammar Gadhafi with the help of NATO.


"While we understand the motivation to take up arms or call for military intervention, we specifically reject this position," said a statement emailed by the Local Coordination Committees, an activist group with a wide network of sources on the ground across Syria. "Militarization would ... erode the moral superiority that has characterized the revolution since its beginning."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-activists-warn-against-taking-arms-162916519.html




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