WikiLeaks: Iraqi children in U.S. raid shot in head, U.N. says

Source: McClatchy

WikiLeaks: Iraqi children in U.S. raid shot in head, U.N. says

This cell phone photo was shot by a resident of Ishaqi on March 15, 2006, of bodies Iraqi police said were of children executed by U.S. troops after a night raid there. A State Department cable obtained by WikiLeaks quotes the U.N. investigator of extrajudicial killings as saying an autopsy showed the residents of the house had been handcuffed and shot in the head, including children under the age of 5. McClatchy obtained the photo from a resident when the incident occurred.



A U.S. diplomatic cable made public by WikiLeaks provides evidence that U.S. troops executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old infant, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence, during a controversial 2006 incident in the central Iraqi town of Ishaqi.

The unclassified cable, which was posted on WikiLeaks' website last week, contained questions from a United Nations investigator about the incident, which had angered local Iraqi officials, who demanded some kind of action from their government. U.S. officials denied at the time that anything inappropriate had occurred.

But Philip Alston, the U.N.'s special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, said in a communication to American officials dated 12 days after the March 15, 2006, incident that autopsies performed in the Iraqi city of Tikrit showed that all the dead had been handcuffed and shot in the head. Among the dead were four women and five children. The children were all 5 years old or younger.






Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/31/122789/wikileaks-iraqi-children-in-us.html#ixzz1WfKjmaQS

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cable: http://wikileaks.org/cable/2006/04/06GENEVA763.html#par2006

the poor babies . . .

I'm overwhelmed.

who wasn't even there and has no proof?

Yeah, I read that one. Did you mean another one that includes more than a bullshit accusation? Nope, haven't seen that.

and there is no proof that U.S. troops were responsible.

Hope it helps.

i think most of us remember what was happening in Iraq in 2006, it was only 5 years ago.

McClatchy includes that as background information, as it should. You excerpt it here as if it exculpates the United States from this atrocity. Sorry, it doesn't.

The person making the accusation wasn't there and has no proof U.S. troops committed the atrocity.

Maybe you missed that part.

he's the UN investigator. People rarely committ atrocities with UN investigators present. Pointing out he wasn't there is like saying to a homicide cop, "you weren't there!". Duh. The cops come afterwards.

No one is saying he has proof, but there is evidence. For example the dead bodies.

How can you call bullshit? How much of the facts do you know?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

This was a revenge killing meant to prove superior willingness to be cruel.

If Americans did this, someone would feel remorse and speak up.

Many people who feel remorse on that level retreat into substance abuse or suicide. :(

since only 'muricans feel remorse.

?

intimidating and murdering civilians which led to Mi Lai (sp). How about Abu ghraib, just a few bad apples, right? There are photos that they will not show the public because of security. And how about telling a prisoner that you will kill their family in order to get information or rape their child? Or how about the women who were raped at abu ghraib?

My BIL told me about a friend who was a green beret during the death squads in Nicaragua. What he witnessed, the decimation of whole villages. They were apparently observers. I believe Negroponte had something to do with the death squads and was also appointed to Iraq. Is that true?

For power, for corporate interest, for politics; we have some real psychopathic greed heads running some very sick projects, I'd say mostly for corporate interest.

Some soldiers, I believe, are getting a dose of "christian" indoctrination. Remember the advent of the Iraq war and it was so hot, and the soldiers were told that they could go into a swimming pool if they would accept jaysus and be baptized? Anyone remember that story? Some soldiers see even civilians as unbelievers, "other". And, that could be a very scary thing. Because, like what Hitler did to the jews, they no longer see them as people, but other, like animals. That their cause is righteous and the heretics are like vermin needing to be eradicated.

A friend who was in vietnam told me that he (even today) doesn't see the vietnamese as people, because he had killed them. If he saw them as people, he would go insane.

But, it is our leaders who are not to put our soldiers needlessly in harms way, it is our leaders who set the tone of the war environment (whether it be honorable or dishonorable) and it is our leaders who have brought us to this miserable place in history.

:cry:

It doesn't provide evidence that it happened.

It very well could have, but to claim that this communication is proof that a crime occurred just isn't so.

they are right on schedule...

or sometimes I can no longer seem to find any difference between the cognitive dissonance, regarding the reality of our wars of aggression, from some republicans and some democrats.

Everything in the end is justified so long your preferred political team happens to be in charge...

they are propelling us in the same direction... we may slow our pace a bit, but we are still headed towards fascism.

TORTURE is the way that dictators control citizens --

Look at the immense effort by Libyans to overturn Kadaffi given the many

nations who armed him to the hilt! Save for nuclear weapons, evidently!

NATO put in a long effort --

And, just read this evening that Obama was giving drones to Korea?

I'll have to go back and check that one -- but he's certainly giving drones

to someone! We are gun runners to the world -- not only are wars profitable

for elites but weapons production is a profitable corporate effort -- and

behind all of it is the fascism of the national security state.


Our Founders had it easy -- no MIC - no CIA --

It could have been one or the other Iraqi faction. That is the question being asked.

me this is the greatest indictment of this war we have had so far. When killing babies is a part of war it is time to stop it. Only fools would think we are getting anywhere with this atrocity of bushies.

those kids with the bullet in their head had it easy.

need to get out of this war.

guerillas and militias don't have specialized equipment. US troops do.

If it had been insurgents or militia fighters the hands would have been tied, not cuffed.

prosecuted and face a firing squad.

My main problem is the lack of blood. Head shots are very bloody.

That was what I was thinking too. Where is the blood? It's not even on the clothing. If they were shot in the back of the head, there would still be blood all over the front of these little innocents.

I'm not saying it didn't happen at all -- I'm just saying that it seems very odd that they are so clean. Is there a logical explanation?

Those kids aren't in situ. Whatever happened to them happened before that photo, and in a different place.

The fact of that, notably, exonerates precisely no one. And as was mentioned elsewhere, the likelihood of Rice investigating this beyond asking around in her own office is about zero, too.

We may never know. :(

I agree.

Atrocities happen on both sides during times of war. Those who commit them need to be brought to justice.

"Atrocities happen on both sides during times of war." So show me the case (there must **be** a case, right?) where Iraqi insurgents excuted a bunch of American children and/or pregnant women.

Point being, you are equating the killers with the victims, the oppressor and the oppressed. That's grossly immoral (and untenable).

Further, you are trying to disassociate wantom murder like this from the general conduct of war. This cannot be done. War **is** wanton murder. There are no "bad apples", or rather, every single soldier is one, capable of doing exactly the same thing. Those troops who did this horrible thing - did they have any criminal past? Did they rape and murder back at home? Don't think so. Most likely they were regular guys like you and me. Then they went to war.

If you don't know it yet, read "War Is a Lie" by David Swanson. But really, people should know it already.

"So show me the case (there must **be** a case, right?) where Iraqi insurgents excuted a bunch of American children and/or pregnant women."

You know that would be impossible because there were very few American non-combatants over there, and no children that I know of.

But, the warring Iraqi factions were certainly blowing up each other's women and children with car bombs and sometimes giving night visits to one another.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/john-gebhardt-iraq-girl.shtml

"Point being, you are equating the killers with the victims, the oppressor and the oppressed."

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

"Further, you are trying to disassociate wantom murder like this from the general conduct of war."

On the contrary, the sentence "Atrocities happen on both sides during war." couldn't be plainer. Human rights violations happen in every war, therefore they are part of the general conduct of war.

You seem to want to argue about something, so you're imagining I'm defending atrocities or just blowing it off as "shit happens".

wonder how they could have been shot in the head and have no visible wounds or blood on them.

Just a little hole. The blood flows out the back, at the exit point. You don't see the back because they are lying on their backs. On layers of blankets, it looks like. Blood is too viscous to spread a lot when there is an absorbant material immediately below the wound.

There are Troops who have come home saying they have killed the innocent.

I have gone to hear many returned Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans talk of what they have done.

check out the Winter Soldier Iraq and Afghanistan
http://www.youtube.com/ivaw#p/u/9/Iqc6z8Y4zbY

check out website of Courage to Resist
http://www.couragetoresist.org/



Iraq Veterans Against the War
http://ivaw.org/


and quit being in denial as it doesn't help the troops.

It's so freaking sad! What did Iraqis ever do to us?! :cry:

decided to sell that oil for euros .... the 2003 invasion was the PNAC wet-dream removal of Hussein come true. When I hear people ask how much a barrel of oil is worth, I picture a small Iraqi child ... or a whole village of them.

saved to watch in near future --

filled with self-hate, because of the murders he was ordered to, and did commit. He has become a Sunday school teacher while waiting to begin the Seminary next year.

When he first got back, drugs and booze were his only solace. The Army got rid of him even though it was their fault that he was in the hellish state he was in. No college money for him. That was the reason he joined.

and have them call him. He is not alone.. at all.


Also, the Veterans for Peace is another great group and many are Vietnam Vets.. so it is like been there done that.

i can't tell you how many recently returned Vets have seen an invisible huge weight come off their shoulders when a Vet for Peace begins talking to the suffering Vet who comes up to talk to them.

the Vets for Peace seem to give them a strong base and then space to heal.

Are the sociopaths who will follow those illegal orders with pleasure and will never feel anything.
The soldier that has a conscious is forced to act in ways that conflict with his feelings and these are the ones who come back with many regrets.
This Army has abandon it's morality when we went to an all volunteer Army.

I am so ashamed of the United States of America. What a sick, sick country we live in. Bush & Cheney should be tried for war criminals along with whoever voted for that horrible war.

and that makes me really sad.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1848017

Although, as usual, McClatchy is very good, too.

Doubt it will make me feel clean.

We are no better than any other murderer.

Disgusting --

but obviously the precedent was set by our MIC in Vietnam --

Use up the ammunition -- who cares on what -- !!

I was not there and there's not enough evidence here to make any sort of conclusion on what happened. And I'm just not believing our soldiers just happened to have handcuffs small enough for kindergartners and infants laying around.

The only conclusion I can make is that war fucking sucks and nobody wins.

probably thinking of.

Two words for you: My Lai.

Team' or whatever they called themselves recently, And then the rape, murder and burning of the body of the little 14 year-old Iraqi girl, her parents and her younger siblings. There were confessions from those soldiers also.

War is horrible, and we should never have been there. I have no doubt that atrocities like this were committed by all sides, including ours. Which is why we hear of the suicides and families' statements stating that they 'could not live with what they had seen and done' any longer.

War destroys everyone, all sides. Which is why it is a crime that the War Criminal In Chief, Dick Cheney is currently being treated with so much deference in our media, when he above all is responsible for all of this. As he proudly admits.

just wow.

I have been rendered speechless.

Congratulations, I guess.


Wow..

An assumption is something you do absent evidence. What's made here is a claim, one supported by evidence from autopsies, photos and now a cable from the United Nations to Condolezza Rice. Do you really trust that Condolezza Rice did the right thing by investigating? OR do you think she furthered a coverup?

Then there's this:

"The details revealed in the cable offer a valuable insight into how many of these house raids turn out. The raids, often carried out in the middle of the night, have become one of the primary strategies of the US war in Afghanistan, with tens of thousands orchestrated just in the last year.

In one notable and comparable incident in February 2010, US Special Operations Forces surrounded a house in a village in the Paktia Province in Afghanistan. Two civilian men exited the home to ask why they had been surrounded and were shot and killed. US forces then shot and killed three female relatives (a pregnant mother of ten children, a pregnant mother of six children, and a teenager).

Instead of calling in an airstrike to hide the evidence, US troops, realizing their mistake, lied and tampered with the evidence at the scene. The initial claim, which was corroborated by the Pentagon, was that the two men were insurgents who had “engaged” the troops, and the three murdered women were simply found by US soldiers, in what they described as an apparent honor killing. Investigations into the incident eventually forced the Pentagon to retract its initial story and issue an apology.

Civilian deaths are a common occurrence in these commonly occurring raid operations. In May, NATO killed another four civilians in a night raid, and another three in early August. No soldiers or US officials have been held to account."

http://print.dailymirror.lk/news/front-page-news/54943.html

This is not the first time this has happened. Do you really think that US soldiers can intrude into the homes of people in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan without committing SOME atrocities? We have seen US forces kill plenty of innocent people, take trophies, torture people, etc.

There are lots of things I would like not to believe, but that doesn't mean I don't give it a fair hearing when presented with evidence.

The fact is, this sort of thing has been done by the US for my entire lifetime, and I know because my family members have done some of it. Here's what happens:

1. The atrocities are committed in a place far away, at night, at a remove from any potential witnesses, other than the perpetrators.

2. The military tries to cover up the crime, in this case, with an airstrike.

Usually, this is sufficient. Sometimes, though, there is evidence that slips through the cracks, in which case:

3. A further cover-up is instituted.

4. If things have really gone FUBAR, some low-ranking perpetrators are brought to justice, though almost never anyone above the rank of Lt., and certainly not anyone in the administration.

The people who actually commit these crimes are under super-secrecy. It's easy not to blab about something when you've committed a war crime. Why would you ever tell, say, your family, about the terrible things you have been ordered to do, especially when you're trying to forget them yourself? Hell, my dad has only admitted to me in the last ten years that he was in Laos and Cambodia, and that's something that has been public knowledge for several decades.

Are you seriously not willing to believe that this at least COULD happen? Then you will not believe this further bit: they were ordered to do this. Whenever this happens, it is always the official line that this did not go up the chain of command, but was the impromptu act of some trigger-pullers under stress of combat. And yet which is easier to believe, the idea that our young people are ready and willing to go off and assassinate bound civilian children, or that someone like a Dick Cheney is willing to order such a thing?

Their final fall-back position is that "Well, this sort of thing happens in war." As if that meant anything, other than as a damn good reason not to go to war at the drop of a hat.

And for those who complain this isn't messy enough to be real, please. I'm sure the personnel on this sort of mission carry sidearms, so it's not like they were shot in the head by a rifle. Someone who's been shot in the head does not have a beating heart pumping blood. There are plenty of images out there that depict this sort of thing if you are interested, so I'll only post one that was well-known, that folks probably wouldn't believe was the sort of thing we would ever condone, except that we did.

65% of subjects were willing to administer what they thought would be a lethal electric charge to another "test subject," even when that person was writhing in faked pain, simply because they were told to do so by a guy in a lab coat. Ordinary people, and the results have been replicated. Now imagine what can happen when you have someone who has been put into a military culture, wherein killing of the enemy is normalized, and then they are told that the folks they are to visit in the middle of the night are the enemy. If they go along with orders, they get medals, promotions and eventually a nice pension. They don't have to tell anyone they did anything questionable, in fact they are under orders not to, because it's a secret and a matter of national security.

"Our boys are good boys, they would never do something like this." The rationalizations some people give sound like something that the mother of a condemned serial killer might tell herself to get to sleep at night. There's a presumption of innocence, but, at this point, for folks to not be able to conceive that this is possible, for US or any other soldiers, goes beyond a failure of imagination to the point of willful ignorance.

It is true that there are men and women serving who are like Ethan McCord



and Hugh Clowers Thompson, Jr.



But they are, sadly, in the minority, not just in the military, but everywhere.

Have any of the supposed witnesses been cross examined? Do we know anything about them? Did they serve in the government under Saddam?

I know it makes you and some other folks happy to think of US troops this way, but I want a trial first. The same thing I would demand for anyone accused of a crime before the assumption is made that they are guilty. Anyone. You, me, Bush/Cheney, Troops, average Joe on the street, anybody.

First comes THIS - the EVIDENCE - and THEN comes the trial.

We HAVE the evidence. WHERE'S THE FUCKING TRIAL?

But the chances are that will never happen.

The presumption of innocence applies to court proceedings. I was replying to a post that claimed some difficulty imagining that US soldiers could commit an atrocity against children. I responded by noting that we have seen US forces commit atrocities, so it's far from unimaginable. Contrary to your claim that "it makes you and some other folks happy to think of US troops this way," I did cite two examples of American soldiers who acted in accordance with their consciences, which is the example I would rather think of when I think of folks who serve in the military. But I also noted empirical evidence that suggests that people from all walks of life, or at least 65% thereof--and I was clear on that, too--are apt to follow orders from folks in authority, even when it comes to inflicting bodily harm on others. So it is possible and, as you suggest, ought to be investigated.

Except that it won't. If you want to get angry, why not get angry about that? Give these anonymous warriors the chance to clear their names. Uphold the honor of the US military and the principle of the rule of law. Don't dismiss the account by claiming that our boys are good boys and would never do such a thing, because that's just as ridiculous as rushing to a judgment of "guilty."

And do not expect that your concerns will be heeded. It's time to get this war into high gear.

You mean like the "evidence" Bush presented that got us into this mess? Like the "evidence" that Cheney himself fears will land him in court facing crimes against humanity?

Wake up, man!!! We've been lied to since 9/11!!! What makes you think this is any different? :crazy:

Good to know.

If, as you assert, these are meaningful, let's see how it was that the Constitution protected these civilians, and how it will be that due process will be carried out. Why limit ourselves to the Constitution, though? There are any number of impartial international authorities capable of investigating such matters.

Except, again, that will never happen, and, as long as it does, I'm afraid that the idea that we live under the rule of law is, as you nicely put it, simply a "quaint idea." Cynicism is here entirely justified, based on recent history.

December 25, 2009 – Ten Afghan civilians, including 8 students that were children, were killed by U.S.-led forces during a military operation in the Narang district of Kunar province. The governor of Kunar province said the foreign military operation was launched without the knowledge of government officials in the province. On December 31, Afghan President Hamid Karzai stated that according to the investigative commission in Kunar, the victims had been shot dead in their homes by foreign soldiers. The headmaster of the school attended by the children has stated that 7 of the children had been handcuffed prior to being shot.<103> The Afghan president called upon ISAF to hand the soldiers that were responsible over to Afghan authorities – ISAF did not respond.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_caused_by_ISAF_and_US_Forces_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

about the "official account" then. We never learn.

will we continue to rationalize Deifying the military??????????????????????????????

When will we stand up, march and demand an end ? If ti takes rocks and bottles, so be it. When the world sees tear gas smoke
on our streets, then maybe they'll know ALL Americans don't support this occupation.

and thank goodness there were soldiers who stopped the massacre by pointing a gun on their own.

Is there any doubt why the political and military establishment want to shut down Wikileaks and jail everyone associated with it?

I am not ready to concede that our troops did this. I want an investigation.

48 months in Iraq, from 03 to 09. Never saw anything like this. Doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. We had the typical rapes and murders that occure in any large herd of humans, but something like this takes a particularly twisted group of individuals to accomplish. I just don't see how a unit, and this would be at least a squad (7-9 guys) doing something like this who ALL keep their mouths shut and cooperate in a conspiracy of silence. Sorry, not buying that. Iraq is FAR from what Vietnam was like. Guys aren't under the same level of stress and depravation. We have Taco Bell on FOBs for fuck's sake. Every patrol I was on was an 'out and back', at most 3-4 days outside the wire. The professional Army of today is not the drafty mob the Army was is Vietnam. Comparisonss to My Lai is unsupportable without MUCH more evidence.

Far more likely is this is inter-religious violence or Arab/Kurd ethnic cleansing.

awhile back, where the troops in the helicopter killed the Reuters photographers AND some people in a van AND those who came to try to rescue the survivors AND killed/wounded the CHILDREN in the van???

That was an atrocity, too. As were so many others I've seen with my own two eyes (photos) over the past nearly 9 years since we invaded that country ON A LIE. I'm waiting for someone to show up and say all those photos were photoshopped because we wouldn't do such things.

I notice that you hedge your bets by allowing that it 'could' have happened, nevertheless calling it 'bullshit'. So, I don't know exactly where you stand. I think you're in denial.

Oh, and there's nothing "typical" about rape.

There was already an incident just like this one where U.S. soldiers were prosecuted and imprisoned for.

Your right. I can't see this happening, a execution of children by us. The handcuffs could have been ropes insurgents used. This is not a crime we would get away with. Ask the people in leavenworth who were part of the kill team.

And the helicopter video... That was not an execution. It was mistaken identity. It's a tragedy, but not murder.

The military is not represented by the few who commit war crimes either. Just like all Muslims are not responsible for 9/11. We don't condone war crimes for Christ sake.

Kill a single person stateside and your will probably go away for life but kill in a battle zone they give you a medal and call you honorable. HOW FUCKING BIZZARD AND TWISTED!

They kill us we kill them and so it’s been since creation! Why should Americans be any different in committing acts of atrocities war crimes because all I have to say is Mai Ly or Wounded Knee? It is a sad reality but until the war mongers of the world (which included the USofA) are held accountable I am afraid it will continue. There are two sides though and I just wanted to share this article with you all!

Photograph shows US Airman comforting an Iraqi child:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/gebhardt.asp

WTF is wrong with you??????????????????????

they can always rely on the uber-alles crowd to defend this shit and yes it is disgusting. Just look at how they are trying to discredit this all... fucking sick and pathetic.

who are calling for an investigation.

Simply - if you were to shoot a child in the head, to put it politely, you would see more damage to the head.

These children are placed in this "pile". Only two faces are visible and they are both in separate blankets.

I would think that the two warring factions would be more likely to kill helpless children to try to wipe out the lineage.

This type of propaganda has been used many times in the past in the middle east.

Just look at Qaddafi and his daughter, who was supposedly killed in an attack on his compound many years ago.
Now she shows up as a practicing physician in a hospital..... propaganda.

bombing of the house ensued to cover up the evidence; however, the bodies didn't look charred. And it said all the bodies were handcuffed. Handcuffing an infant is just not plausible.

I find the denials here creepy.... talk about propaganda.

...and what will happen when the different factions begin their power plays.

I've seen some videos of the rebels and their treatment of Libyan troops. They are both incredible and disgusting i.e. forcing troops to cannibalize a dead body. I'm sure this works both ways.

War will never change. Most of this stuff is hidden from the public, for good reason.

The problem is the media and their parent companies interest in war i.e. GE>NBC. Also, you deploy someone half a dozen times, and they watch their friends die, and they are told these people caused 9/11, and they are being shot at regularly, the skin thickens and the heart hardens. That or you suicide yourself; sooner or later.

deliberately tortured, maimed and killed since the beginning. Over and over and over and over. I understand not wanting to believe this happened, but I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it did. Bush, Blair, Cheney .... Rumsfeld, they guaranteed it would happen when they chose to invade a whole nation of innocents.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6201.htm

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

A lot of good the US Military is doing for the US these days. If we have any reason to fear, they are the cause of it. The current military leaders have no real0 vision for the US or a hint at why they exist in the first place. They use the US as an excuse to plan war and execute. Period. They've entirely lost any sense of a noble purpose. Maybe that's just not possible when one pro-actively engages in war.

:cry::cry::cry:

:mad::mad::mad:

:nuke::nuke::nuke:

Peace...

ATROCITIES committed in are name...

:cry:

The folks who did this should have to pay in hell for this. I hope they have nightmares.