John Kerry: Religion Shouldn't Mix With Politics

<WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's campaign said Friday that religion should not be an issue in U.S. politics after a top Vatican official said Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should be denied Communion.

When asked in general about ``unambiguously pro-abortion'' Catholic politicians, Arinze said such a politician ``is not fit'' to receive Communion. ``If they should not receive, then they should not be given,'' he said.

Kerry spokesman David Wade would not respond directly to Arinze, but he reiterated Kerry's position on the separation of church and state that ``helped make religious affiliation a nonissue in American politics.''

``The decisions he will make as president will be guided by his obligation to all the people of our country and to the Constitution of the United States,'' Wade said in the statement. ``Every American - whether they be Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or any other faith - must believe their president is representing them.'' >

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4012536,00.html

Glad to see him saying that. We need to keep telling people that our Constitution is founded on the separation of church and state! If a leader wants to base their ethics/morality on a religion, that is his/her own business, so long as it doesn't come into the political realm!!

he had to assure everyone that the Vatican was not going to dictate his policies, that he would follow the separation of church and state..

Seems that some catholics are forgetting this argument.

And... the same thing would have been true for Lieberman..

That the right was trying to turn the US into a theocracy, their motives have now been laid bare for all to see.

sacred, and that you should not play football or baseball on Sundays.

That would really piss off the NFL!

Too bad none of those 'Christians' in Washington DC saw fit to listen to him.

"Every American - whether they be Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or any other faith - must believe their president is representing them.''"

then don't be afraid to mention any other religion specifically

Catholics and Protestants are both christian

don't be afraid to say Muslim

Bill

Just how long should we make this list in order for it to be PC enough? The statement stands on its own.

Everyone should be able /and encouraged to worship in ANY way they see fit, but I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT..

I don't want to see my president carrying around a Bible, or wandering in and out of churches ..

I don't want to know his religious philosophy..(unless he is a David Koresh/Jim Jones style worshiper)..

I don't want valuable press conference time taken up with "God" questions..

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Furthermore, I would love to see a whole revamping of the religious deduction thing for churches & ministries..

The time is long past, where they really "need" these exemptions.. Does Pat Robertson deserve tax free status?? The money he does NOT pay in taxes is used for political grandstanding, and his own grandiose lifestyle..

Small town pastors/ministers/soup kitchen/food banks etc, should retain theirs, but the "big-time" God,Inc. organizations should be paying their fair share..

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Religious schools are great places for "prayerful" students.. The secular students should be spared the embarrassment of being coerced into prayer..

If the really religious ones want to break away and object to "paying twice", then I would actually favor a 50% deduction of tuition paid to church-school ...on their tax forms..

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the Cardinal is not telling anyone how to vote... the Vatican is not endorsing anyone...they are saying:
1)the RC church belives XX
2)if you don't believe XX, you are not a memeber in good standing in the RC church

perfectly valid.....EVERYONE'S opinions and votes are based (at least in part) on their religious beliefs, including athiests'...

the phrase 'seperation of church and state' in Jefferson's letter refers to no official ties, to protect churces from the power of the state...it does refer to keeping religious thoughts, words and actions out of the public square, no matter how much some people wish it did

in return let's influence the church indirectly...remove tax exempt status for the church.

Let's shine the light of morality into pro-life politician's bedroom. Bring it on!

communion... like, say our 'good friend' Giuliani -- pro-choice, public adulterer.

Let's ask good ole Toomey about his dating history and deny him communion for using contraception and discussing abortion.

Bring it on....

I dare the Catholic Church to clean house!

with those who publicly disagree with the doctrine...two different things...

if Rudy G is Roman Catholic, he should be treated the same...
as to Toomey...how do you know he used contraception?..is he Catholic?

They're talking about how a politician votes on prohibiting XX. Various Catholic politicians have said that they are personally, morally opposed to abortion, but that they will not vote to impose that view on their constituents -- and they have been criticized by bishops for that.

Of course, many Catholics hold beliefs in contradiction to what their church says they should. Catholics are not questioned closely on that every time they go to communion. What gets criticized is something different: votes in legislatures and in Congress. The RC Church tries and tries to dominate politicians; but they can't even do that in Catholic majority countries (e.g., Ireland, Italy) anymore -- as witnessed by votes on divorce and abortion.

if a politician said: "I believe stealing is wrong, but I won't vote to prohibit others from doing it" their church couldn't say.."Uh..excuse me?"

all laws come from some set of moral beliefs...it's just a questions of which ones

Stealing has been considered "wrong" by almost everyone, throughout human history (although mitigating factors sometimes influence that view). Abortion is not universally considered wrong, and the politician who would not have or support an abortion in her/his personal life but won't prohibit others from having one recognizes the fact that moral condemnation of abortion is not a settled matter. Prohibiting another from doing something that she and many others do not find to be wrong is an imposition of his religious beliefs on others.

what if I don't consider stealing wrong? Are you going to impose your beliefs on me?

Besides...the R Catholic church gets to 1) set their own doctrine & 2) determine who is a Catholic in good standing...

But what I was posting about was the general acceptance of one view vs. the lack of consensus about the other. You would be in an extremely small minority of all people throughout history if you thought stealing wasn't wrong. Even thieves don't think it's right when it happens to them. In the case of abortion, there is a lack of consensus, and there are large groups on both sides of the issue, as well as within a range between.

Of course the Catholic church gets to set its own doctrine and to determine who is a Catholic in good standing. But selectively castigating politicians while they are running for office makes the church look bad. Perhaps if they started refusing communion to all public figures who are known to break church laws, they would seem to have a more consistent stance. In this case, they appear to be attempting to influence an election in which a Catholic is running to lead people of many faiths and of no faith, rather than attempting to guide the faithful.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Our civil laws prohibit stealing and murdering, the same as most religious laws.

This is why the RWers want to change the Constitution to outlaw abortion and gay marriage. This is why the courts determined that as these are not specifically prohibited in the Constitutions they cannot be prohibited by civil authorities.

Who asked the Catholic leadership to offer their interpretations of politicians' actions?

And, as someone else has already pointed out, why don't these articles that mention Kerry's Catholicism also point out the conflict between Bush's choice to go to war and his own church's stand, as well as that of almost all of the religious denominations in the country (I think the Southern Baptists were the only pro-war denomination) and that of the Pope?

and if Bush's church wants to take some action based on his going to war, they have every right to...it's coming up now because Kerry is a (nelwy) high profile R Catholic...

I don't know what action they would take (such as refusing communion, for example). However, he did ignore his own church's view.

Also, this is not the first time this has come up. An American bishop or archbishop brought it up recently. It may have been in response to reporters; I don't know. I'm just cynical enough to believe that somebody leaning to the right was the first to bring the question up, though.

We are expected to take Bush's professions of faith as sincere. Kerry sincerely believes his faith allows for a free-will decision on matters such as this. I'd rather accept his sincerity than a bishop's general statement. It's very possible that Kerry has even consulted with members of the Catholic clergy on this issue. I don't know. But I'm very willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially given that he is seeking to lead all Americans, and not only the Catholic ones.

I would have no problem, hell, I have no problem, with the catholic or any other church telling its adherents that they are out if they don't abide by the tenets. But this is different, the church is not saying "John Kerry, you have had an abortion and therefore aren't abiding by the tenets, no communion for you." The church is saying "Kerry, you have to use your political office to force everyone to abide by our tenets." Thats different, and inexcusable.

This position basically says that Catholics are forbidden to believe in the separation of church and state. Interesting in light of Jesus' admonition to "render unto ceasar that which is ceasar's, and render unto god that which is god's."

Not a good reason for catholic bashing, though. The fundies take the same approach, hell, its the sole reason they go into politics, to force their religion on others.

I would rather live in a catholic theocracy than a fundy theocracy, too, but then I am a man. Catholic doctrine is way way more concerned with social justice than protestant and fundy doctrine. Capitalism is not the end all and be all for catholicism, whereas, if you note the fact that protestantism and calvinism arose and developed right around the time industrialism and capitalism arose, you could conclude that the protestant revolution was really just the means to find a moral justification for capitalism, greed, and the survival of the fittest modern ethos.

status.

That is the law as it currently stands although sleeze such as the Christian evangelist Robertson, finds ways to get around it.

They are coercing a captive and vulnerable audience. Believe this (ie vote this way) or else suffer the wrath of God who will PUNISH you, is the message.
]
The Catholic church did the same thing when birth control pills first appeared on the market.

And that is exactly why the founders of this nation saw fit to extablish separation of church and state.

or the Cardinals and Bishops who enable the pedophiles by covering up for them?

more alter boys.

Something to consider I guess.

*

is reason enough to vote for Kerry.

``The decisions he will make as president will be guided by his obligation to all the people of our country and to the Constitution of the United States,'' Wade said in the statement. ``Every American - whether they be Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or any other faith - must believe their president is representing them.

**********************

"In this difficult time we must again reaffirm we are enlisted for the duration - and reaffirm our belief that the cause of Israel must be the cause of America....

The author is a Massachusetts Senator and a Democratic Candidate for the Presidency of the United States.

http://cms.hillel.org/Hillel/Israel/News+and+Opinion/Commentary/essential_dream.htm

it's talking about pols who won't vote as it commands; those who will not impose their own moral positions on an entire society; those who struggle to maintain separation of church and state. Sorry, Cardinal, but the U.S. doesn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Of course, plenty of Catholics differ with their church on the narrower issue of the morality of abortion (or at least on whether to have one), as well -- abortion rates are quite high among Catholic women.

How about denying sacraments to politicians, and maybe priests too, who sexually abuse the young?

that were involved in the decision to execute Timothy McVeigh and prisoners on death row all over the country? How about the ones who decided to send troops off to kill and be killed in Iraq? Do THEY get to take Communion?
This seems like a slam at one politician, and the Vatican should stay out of US politics unless they have some interest in seeing one candidate over another win the election.

It's not like Kerry is proposing mandatory abortion as they have in China. If a Catholic politician were to do so, I certainly hope the Church would disown him. A Catholic should oppose abortion and do everything possible eliminate it, short of legal prohibition. Pro-choice people should make it clear that they are just that; that they are not saying that abortion is good and every woman should be required to have one. This is how it sometimes comes across. Most women who get abortion do so, not because they have the choice, but because they have no other choice. Politicians can do more to stop abortion by giving choices than by denying them.

abortion rates actually went down under clinton's presidency and i believe it had to do with them supporting education on prevention and just overall economy being better .

Can I get a WITNESS????

from Lieberman, who claimed "there is no freedom from religion. Only freedom of religion".

I'm glad that Kerry has spoken out against mixing religion with politics.