7 U.S. Soldiers Receive Reprimands for Prison Abuse

By DEXTER FILKINS and KIRK SEMPLE

Published: May 3, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 3 — Seven American soldiers have received reprimands in connection with the investigation into abuses of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison here, a senior American military official said today. It was the first disciplinary action taken against American personnel in connection with the widening prisoner-abuse scandal.

The punishments follow the arrest last week of six members of an Army Reserve military police unit who face charges of assault, cruelty, indecent acts and maltreatment of detainees.

The latest developments in the scandal, which has stirred anger across the Arab world, came as the American authorities continued to grapple with the challenges of rebel insurgencies centered in the west and south of the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/03/international/middleeast/03CND-IRAQ.html?hp

from leading the investigation up the chain of command by just slapping their hands? Wow.

Yesterday someone asked Myers why they were reassigned and not detained,
and Myers said they were "essentially detained" which sounded like a big lie
to me. I assume they're out walking around.

The entire Arab world will be against us for a very long time if we don't act much stronger than that. Hell! A united EU won't look upon us very friendly, either!

OK, that settles it. The torture was approved. Taking pictures of it and shopping them around to porno sites on the net was not.

This is gonna win those hearts and minds quickly, right?

Sounds like the chain of command is getting reprimanded, with the soldiers directly involved being court-martialed. I think all the troops that were directly involved will be fried.

Yeah, like having a report put in their 201 file? This is how they'll keep the lid on the pressure cooker.. Can't have the troopers talking now can we?

I can hear 'em crying now, "no please no no not the 201 file, have mercy, please Sir......

A caller this morning on the Washington Journal said it was Clinton's fault.

That's what makes me believe they will be made examples of.

He probably wouldn't give a shit except for the potential embarassment.
However, I'm qute sure that 99% of the active military and 99% of vets are appalled by this conduct. This episode is truly sad and embarassing for all honorable military and vets. I heard my old CG (who was a very kind and decent man) on the tv talking about it and he sounded like somebody in his family died. Bush has gone a long way in destroying the credibility and honorable reputation of the military.
Combat vets may understand how atrocities can occur with battle-stressed troops. But these were MPs simply guarding prisoners, not in the heat of battle. I hope they all do serious time in Leavenworth. I wouldn't be surprised with lenient sentences, but due to the extent of the embarassment of the BFEE, I think they might throw the UCMJ book at them.

and this happened under his command.

Besides, in an unprecedented move last fall, the WH took over control of the Iraq War. That was when Bu$h crowned Condi the unsticker. An investigation and a pretty explicit report was released in Jan. 2004. However, the Chain of Command claims that they never bothered to even read this report and therefore did not pass this information up to the pResident. So because we have an incompetent pResident and incompetent people at the DOD, it's now nobodies fault. Sorry, that's no excuse.

If Bu$h doesn't demand a full and open investigation, and that all involved be appropriately punished, then he should be charged under International Law with assorted war crimes and crimes against humanity.

This is a rogue government, running a rogue military. They have no intention of ever punishing themselves for their transgressions. It is up to the public to demand an end to this horror and the sooner the better.

How quaint; I'll bet that will teach them.

Makes you proud to be an American. Wait until the Islamic world hears how seriously we took this.

can they be reprimanded now, and still prosecuted later?...that would be relevant...

if they are going to stay in Iraq. The whole Arab world now knows them by the photos.

The woman in most of the pictures (last name England, can't recall the first name) had been re-assigned to a base in the U.S. a few months back; the reason given is that she is pregnant. I am sure that I read that in one of the stories here on LBN.

for her to breed and pass on her values to a child. great.

:puke:

"Buried deep (Paragraph Eight) in an article titled "Torture at Abu Ghrab", in the most recent New Yorker magazine:

www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

is the statement:

"A seventh suspect, Private Lyndi England, was reassigned to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, after becoming pregnant."

Sounds like a sweepsweek story line for a JAG episode. Have they ever had a pregnant defendant ?
I think this young woman is hard and calculating enough to see pregnancy as her best and only shot at getting sympathy in her upcoming court martial."

Note - the above comments were pasted from the earlier thread.

But do not forget that the US has excluded itself from the possibility of prosecution in front of the International Court in The Hague for war crimes.
There was a reason for that. These reservists were let loose by someone above them. This someone whether army or CIA will never be even as much as reprimanded, and is probably celebrating right now.

The truth, is that war is horrible, colonial wars such as the Iraq or Afghanistan war (remember the prisoners dying in containers?) are even more horrible, and conducive to this kind of abuse than others.

When the so-called commander in chief eschews all responsibility for any action, how could it be any different for the rank and file?
When were these soldiers ever shown an example of integrity and accountability?
One of the kids said "we were not trained to run prisons", I think he has a point. These kids were trained to kill and hate. Not to be decent to the "enemy" in a situation where no one has even been told who the enemy really is.
I am not defending the soldiers who committed the abuse, but I am saying that they are part of a system which condones this (remember South America, and the School of the Americas...).

<snip>
"But do not forget that the US has excluded itself from the possibility of prosecution in front of the International Court in The Hague for war crimes."

~~~
What is this going to look like to the rest of the world? Bush, who is on record (in Woodward's, Bush At War) as planning to go after Iraq in the first month of his pResidency. Around that same time the US opts out of the possibility of prosecution for this court. I'm sure it won't take long for everyone to put two and two together. Great planning there, Neocons! You guys stink at foresight!

hopefully not the last.

I didn't read the rest of the article, but I hope that this is just the beginning. If this isn't taken any more seriously than a reprimand we are in big trouble.

All anyone can talk about today are those pictures... those terrible pictures. There is so much rage and frustration. I know the dozens of emails I’m going to get claiming that this is an ‘isolated incident’ and that they are ‘ashamed of the people who did this’ but does it matter? What about those people in Abu Ghraib? What about their families and the lives that have been forever damaged by the experience in Abu Ghraib? I know the messages that I’m going to get- the ones that say, “But this happened under Saddam...” Like somehow, that makes what happens now OK... like whatever was suffered in the past should make any mass graves, detentions and torture only minor inconveniences now. I keep thinking of M. and how she was 'lucky' indeed. And you know what? You won't hear half of the atrocities and stories because Iraqis are proud, indignant people and sexual abuse is not a subject anyone is willing to come forward with. The atrocities in Abu Ghraib and other places will be hidden away and buried under all the other dirt the occupation brought with it...

It’s beyond depressing and humiliating... my blood boils at the thought of what must be happening to the female prisoners. To see those smiling soldiers with the Iraqi prisoners is horrible. I hope they are made to suffer... somehow I know they won’t be punished. They’ll be discharged from the army, at best, and made to go back home and join families and cronies who will drink to the pictures and the way “America’s finest” treated those “Dumb I-raki terrorists”. That horrible excuse of a human, Janis Karpinski, will then write a book about how her father molested her as a child and her mother drank herself into an early death- that’s why she did what she did in Abu Ghraib. It makes me sick.

Where is the Governing Council? Where are they hiding now?

I want something done about it and I want it done publicly. I want those horrible soldiers who were responsible for this to be publicly punished and humiliated. I want them to be condemned and identified as the horrible people they are. I want their children and their children’s children to carry on the story of what was done for a long time- as long as those prisoners will carry along with them the humiliation and pain of what was done and as long as the memory of those pictures remains in Iraqi hearts and minds...
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

I listened to an interested, and I think viable, theory on NPR this morning. About a week and a half ago, there was an RPG and mortar attack on Abu Ghraib which killed many prisoners <http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/04/21/guerrilla_attack_kills_22_iraqis_at_prison?mode=PF>

The feeling at the time was somewhat along the lines of :wtf:, why were these people killing their own countrymen and women? Well to understand that, you must understand that rape, torture, being forced into simulated sex acts, etc, the whole gammit of degradation that we were inflicting on these prisoners is considered to be some of the absolutely worst torture that the Iraqi people(and those in most ME cultures also) could go through. It has now been speculated that the reason for the Iraqis to kill their own is to put them out of their misery, a mercy killing if you will. The word had gotten out onto the street of the atrocities taking place in Abu Ghraib, and since a rescue was impossible, the insurgents went in for the kill instead.

It makes sense to me. Many cultures have values regarding capture and degradation negatively. Witness the Japanese, who were famed for killing themselves before submitting to capture. The same was true for many Native American tribes, and amongst the Vikings of yore.

So, if there was enough bullshit going on for the word to get out on the street, for word to get back to the insurgents to come and KILL their fellow countrymen out of mercy, then there was a hell of a lot of bullshit going on at that prison. More than what these photos show, more than the phrase "isolated incidents" can cover. What we are looking at is systematic, widespead torture, abuse, and degradation by the US military. Charges that could(and should) get people hauled before the International Criminal Court, or a modern day Nuemburg.

Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but I hope it does. We are supposed to be the oh so civilized country. But it is shit like this that simply continues to prove the point to the contrary, that we, as a people, are just as depraved, barbaric and sadistic as anybody else, if not more so. Of course we are the original inventors of scalping too, so why should I be suprised. The Indians here simply copied the practice in admiration.

But I can't help thinking the simpler explanation (other than just bad shooting by the resistance) is the desire to get rid of witnesses on the part of some in the military. But it is too early to do much more than speculate.

Then it is apparent that this is a serious systemic problem. This ad condones and just about mandates criminal behavior. Kicking butts is mandatory? That means you will be ordered to beat people? Taking names is optional? So breaking international law and mistreating prisoners is okay? That's the message I'm getting from this ad. I found this ad a lot more disturbing than Janet Jackson's nipple shield, that's for sure. As a matter of fact, I bet just this ad violates numerous international laws and probably at least a few in the US. But since Bu$h took over, who cars about those silly little laws anyway. God says it's okay and that's all that matters.

Seems like it is very important that they fail to shut up Gen.Karpinski.

give an order, even if this is not lawful order... and in this environment it will be hard for her to disobey the order