U.S. Probe: Two War Prisoners Murdered by Americans

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military has investigated the deaths of 25 prisoners held by American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and determined that two prisoners were murdered by Americans, one an Army soldier and the other a CIA contractor, Army officials said on Tuesday.

An Army official said that a soldier was convicted in the U.S. military justice system of killing a prisoner by hitting him with a rock, and was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a private contractor who worked for the CIA was found to have committed the other homicide against a prisoner.

Word of these investigations came as the Pentagon continued to investigate the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. forces at the Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040504/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_deaths_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

THis is a government report? They said "murder"? WOW

This is just awful!!!

and the punishment was a demotion and a discharge?

*shakes head*

Steal a few million get community service

A military investigation finds that an enlisted man committed murder and he is discharged from the service? That's it? I can remember a couple of cases where the soldier did hard time for a murder during wartime - can you shed any light on this? Thanks in advance.

Never ever heard anything like this. More Heads will roll

under US military law. The private 'CIA contractor' cannot be punished under US law, military law, or Iraqi law (courts not up and running there yet). The worst that can happen to them is to lose their job. Sickening. This is what war does to humans. Turns them into animals.

This is just more lies and propaganda that the state run media is spreading around.

All contractors are subject to the following law. Under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 granted federal jurisdiction over crimes committed outside of the United States. This
jurisdiction covers members of and persons employed by or accompanying the Armed Forces.


"Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999"

Opening Statement of Chairman Bill McCollum
on H.R. 3380, the "Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999"

Today the Subcommittee will consider H.R. 3380, the "Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999." This bill was introduced by Congressman Saxby Chambliss and I was pleased to be the original cosponsor of the bill. H.R. 3380 would amend the Federal criminal code to apply it to persons who commit criminal acts while employed by or otherwise accompanying the U.S. Armed Forces outside of the United States. It would also extend Federal criminal jurisdiction to persons who commit crimes abroad while a member of the Armed Forces but who are not tried for those crimes by military authorities before being discharged from the military.


Civilians have served with or accompanied the American Armed Forces in the field or ships since the founding of the United States. In recent years, however, the number of civilians present with our military forces in foreign countries has dramatically increased. Many of these civilians are nonmilitary employees of the Defense Department and contractors working on behalf of DOD. In 1996, there were more than 96,000 civilian employees of the Department of Defense working and living outside the United States.

Family members of American service personnel make up an even larger group of the civilians who accompany U.S. forces overseas. In 1999, there were almost 300,000 family members of military personnel and DoD civilian employees living abroad.

While military members who commit crimes outside the United States are subject to trial and punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, civilians are not. In most instances, American civilians who commit crimes abroad are also not subject to the criminal laws of the United States because the jurisdiction for those laws ends at our national borders. As a result of these jurisdictional limitations, American citizens who commit crimes in foreign countries can be tried and punished only by the host nation. Surprisingly, however, host nations are not always willing to prosecute Americans, especially when the crime involves acts committed only against another American or against property owned by Americans.

Because of this, each year incidents of rape, sexual abuse, aggravated assault, robbery, drug distribution, and a variety of fraud and property crimes committed by American civilians abroad go unpunished because the host nation declines to prosecute these offenses. And this problem has been compounded in recent years by the increasing involvement of our military in areas of the world where there is no functioning government -- such as Somalia, Haiti, and the Balkans. Because, in those places, no government exists at all to prosecute crimes, American civilians who commit crimes there go unpunished.

The bill before us today would close this gapping hole in the law by extending Federal criminal jurisdiction to crimes committed by persons employed by and accompanying the U.S. Armed Forces overseas. Specifically, the bill creates a new crime under Title 18 that would make it a crime to engage in conduct outside the United States which would constitute an offense under Title 18 if the crime had been committed within the United States. The new crime would apply only to two groups of people. First, persons employed by or who accompany the Armed Forces outside the United States. This group includes dependents of military members, civilian employees of the Department of Defense, and Defense Department contractors or subcontractors and their employees. This group also includes foreign nationals who are relatives of American military personnel or contractors, or who work for the Defense Department, but only to the extent that they are not nationals of the country where the act occurred or ordinarily live in that country.

The second group of people to whom the bill would apply are persons who are members of the Armed Forces at the time they commit a criminal act abroad but who later are discharged from the military without being tried for their crime. This portion of the bill is designed to authorize the government to punish persons who are discharged from the military before their guilt is discovered and who, because of that discharge, are no longer subject to court-martial jurisdiction.

We simply cannot allow violent crimes and crimes involving significant property damage to go unpunished when they are committed by persons employed by or accompanying our military. The only reason why these people are living in foreign countries is because our military is there and they have some connection to it. And so, our government has an interest in ensuring that they are punished for any crimes they commit there. Just as importantly, as many of the crimes going unpunished are committed against Americans and American property, our government has an interest in using its law to punish those who commit these crimes.

I wish to point out that both the Defense Department and the Justice Department support the legislation before the Subcommittee here today. The legislation is the product of close collaboration between the staff of the Subcommittee on Crime and the representatives of these agencies, and I am pleased that both Departments have seen fit to send representatives to our hearing today. I welcome all the witnesses before the Subcommittee today and look forward to receiving their testimony.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/mcco0330.htm

That bill was passed...

-----------------------------

Office of the Command Counsel

UNCLASSIFIED
AMSEL-LG POINT PAPER 1 NOVEMBER 2002

SUBJECT: The Status of Contractors on the Battlefield
PURPOSE: To summarize the rules and regulations concerning the use of contractors on
the battlefield.
FACTS:
· The contract establishes the responsibilities of the Government and the
support contractor with respect to the use of contractors on the battlefield.
Every effort should be made, therefore, to specifically incorporate the
respective duties of the two parties from the outset of that agreement. AMC
has issued AMC-P 715-18 ?Contracts and Contractors Supporting Military
Operations?. This pamphlet seeks to integrate operations and contracting for
support of operations. Included at Appendix C of the pamphlet is a
compilation of suggested contract special requirements. Specific contractual
areas that should be addressed include: pay, accounting for personnel,
logistics, risk assessment and mitigation, force protection, legal assistance,
central processing and departure point, identification cards, medical coverage,
clothing and equipment, weapons and training, vehicle and equipment
operation, passports/visas and customs, staging, living under field conditions,
morale, Status of Forces Agreement, tour of duty, health and life insurance,
management and next-of-kin notification.

<snip>

As a general rule, the UCMJ does not cover contractor personnel although
court-martial jurisdiction may be expanded to cover contractors in time of war.
The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 does provide for federal
jurisdiction over crimes committed outside of the United States. This
jurisdiction covers members of and persons employed by or accompanying the
Armed Forces. The Act allows the Secretary of Defense, under specified
conditions, to authorize DOD law enforcement personnel to arrest suspected
offenders outside the United States involved with crimes punishable by
imprisonment of more than one year.
BRIEFER: John Reynolds, AMSEL-LG-B, ext. 29780.
REVIEWED/APPROVED BY:

Mark Sagan
Deputy Chief Counsel

http://www.amc.army.mil/amc/command_counsel/resources/documents/newsle...

From JAG


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1517119

not sure I want to know anymore. :(

Not about Iraq mind you, but the crowning (not kidding) of Rev. Sun Myung Moon in the Dirksen Senate Office Building Mar. 23 2004.

Attended by no less than six members of Congress. ( of course - with pictures)

http://www.gorenfeld.net/blog//2004_05_01_barchive.html#108362997653753669

Gives me the willies!!!!

:scared:

when are those flowers and kisses getting here?

There is too much going on.

How much more? I am so outraged I could scream!

US military using brutality, fear, and intimidation in Al-Adamiyah
Dahr Jamail, Electronic Iraq, 27 December 2003


...

Some men who attended the demonstration say they witnessed five Iraqi men who were wounded by the American soldier's gunfire. They say that these five men were taken under a nearby bridge and executed by the Americans. The bodies were found later and taken to the morgue in Al-Adamiyah. The US military here has not commented on any such atrocity.

However, along with this dispatch I submit to you a photo from inside the Al-Adamiyah morgue of two of five, unidentified bodies, each shot at close range, execution style. Gunpowder burns mark the skin on them. One man has been shot at close range in the back of the head.


Al-Adamiyah's dead lie in a hospital morgue.

The people of Al-Adamiyah claim that the family members of those slain, in order to retrieve the bodies from the morgue, first had to report to the US camp near Al-Adamiyah. They claim they had to sign a form stating that their family member was shot by Iraqi Police, not US soldiers. Then they had to take this signed form to the morgue in order to obtain the body, as the hospital and morgue was sealed off by Iraqi Police (following orders from the Americans) for several days following the terrible events of December 14th.

The residents here also tell me that US soldiers have taken the wounded from the hospital here directly to prison. They report Americans using intimidation and fear tactics on the families, as well as others who were wounded and seeking medical care in the hospital.

...

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1292.shtml

How much lower could the human race fall?

This is INSTITUTIONALIZED behavior. People representing the U.S. required them to go through this.

Thanks for posting this, Barrett808.

It's the story of the decade -- it will haunt us for a generation or more.

It would be a true crime if our country tried to "move on" with this hanging over our head, without cleaning house BUT GOOD.

We had trouble internationally with our "rep," but that was NOTHING compared to the low, vicious, monstrous events surrounding and permeating this huge sin against humanity.

PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!

OR, TRY (877) – 762 – 8762. It’ll get you there, too! (Thank you, DUer redqueen!)


Please note, here, The World's Greatest Lists of Media Contacts – updated April 30, 2004– in the following thread:

LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1504379

IF THEY THINK WE DON’T CARE, THEY WON’T, EITHER!

leaking out these stories to appear like they are aggressively taking care of things to avoid a independant, impartial inquiry? We still need a completely INDEPENDANT investigation.

know what they are covering up.

It looks like the civilians contractors have the power over the military.

60 minutes aired a picture of one of them.

That is absolutely unbelievable. No wonder the rest of the world hates the US......so hypocritical.

They made sure to cover all bases (for their crony corporatist asses). They did all kinds of shit like this. Unilateral exemption from the ICC, plans to attack anyone who tried any US citizen, and on and on. They put their proverbial ducks in a row. THAT'S what makes these radicals so freakin' frightening.

It seems to be all part of some sick plan for oil. This must be the most corrupt administration in American history.

Mistreating and killing unarmed, completely helpless people would reflect only the most vicious, disturbed, lost people who have surrendered their own consciences for the approval of the group.

Keep voting on this article. I think that yahoo is trying to bury it. It's hard to find on their site.

It's going down -- 3.62 with 402 votes.

not more boots.

This is the "democracy" he aims to bring the "little brown people" of the ME??????

Nazi Freeper Amerikan Empire

Bush is as bad as Saddam.

What a show! It was fun while it lasted. Many thanks are extended to Chimpy and all the fine, outstanding members of the BFEE that are resposible for pushing AmCiv over the precipice. May they all suffer internal damnation in Texas.

committed' the other murder. But he or she is home free, right? Under U.S. rules in Iraq, there are no laws covering 'contractors,' right?

I wonder if it was even a dishonourable discharge. People do jail time for killing dogs, if the killing is cruel enough.

As for the CIA contractor, I suppose he is beyond even being fired - maybe there is a penalty clause in the contract, though, so he might lose a few bucks.

...and a job for Blackwater Security.

Don

"Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead
men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the
bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood...They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . .

The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, PLACED A FAKE IV IN HIS ARM and took him away. The dead Iraqi was never entered into the prison's inmate-control system..."

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ice+body+iraq+prison&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=010520041943138224%25black-ice%40bellsouth.net&rnum=2

n/t

25 Prisoners Died While Held by U.S. Forces
By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Twenty-five prisoners have died while being held by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and two of them were murdered in Iraq by Americans, U.S. Army officials said on Tuesday.

An Army official said one soldier was convicted of murder in the U.S. military justice system for shooting a prisoner to death in September 2003 at a detention center in Iraq, and another prisoner was killed at the Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad in November 2003 by a private contractor who worked as an interrogator for the CIA.

The soldier was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time, the official said. The official said the soldier shot the prisoner after the prisoner had thrown rocks at the soldier, and the soldier was found to have used excessive force.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said because the CIA contractor was not in the U.S. military no legal action was taken because of lack of jurisdiction, but Army officials referred the case to the Justice Department for possible action. The official did not offer details of this killing.

The official did not identify the Americans involved in the murders or the victims. Most of the deaths took place in Iraq.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040504/wl_nm/iraq_abuse_deaths_dc&cid=574&ncid=1480

torture. Asshole.

SIMPLY A FUCKING OUTRAGE.

Words fail me. And this slap on the wrist?

:grr:

:mad:

:grr:

:mad:

DTH

We are the number one world power. We want everyone to be like us. We have democracy and are more civilized than the rest of the world. Blah blah blah...This is fucking bullshit! These are human beings...where the fuck is the outrage? It better show itself in November.
I'm so pissed I can spit. Sorry for the babble, but I can't understand this. Of course these are just our enemy and they aren't people. I'm sure the number one news story tonight will be that American idol bullshit. Or the last fucking episode of Friends.

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US administration fended off mounting criticism of a prison abuse scandal in Iraq (news - web sites) as it was revealed that two detainees were illegally killed.

The two alleged homicides were among 25 deaths in US military custody in Iraq or Afghanistan (news - web sites) investigated since December 2002, an army officer said.

Major General Donald Ryder, the army's chief law enforcement officer, said another detainee was killed while trying to escape and 10 other deaths were still under investigation.

One soldier was found guilty of homicide for shooting an Iraqi who threw rocks at him, a military spokesman said. A CIA (news - web sites) contractor killed a detainee at the now-notorious Abu Ghraib prison on November 3, he added.

The contractor's case has been handed over to the US attorney general's department as the military has no jurisdiction.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040504/pl_afp/iraq_worldwrap&cid=1521&ncid=1480

and so far from moral---they are like like science fictional fiends

It looks like they're doing a big dump, trying to make it one big, bad yet short-lived story, creating this impression in the minds of the sheeple: "Bad. Few bad apples. Bad Boys. Preznit sorry. Won't happen again"

After a cycle or two the media will happily oblige them, moving along to more important stories like Micheal Jackson's underwear and John Kerry's flip flopping.

It's our job to make sure the media gives a story this huge--and this damaging to our country--the coverage it deserves.