More Photos, Videos in Iraq Abuse Scandal-Rumsfeld (worst is yet to come)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison includes more photographs and videos that are potentially worse than the photos shown around the world of smiling American soldiers next to naked Iraqi prisoners in humiliating positions, U.S. officials said on Friday.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, said there were many more photos and videotapes that had not been published showing cruel and sadistic acts by U.S. personnel.

"I've said today that there are a lot more photographs and videos that exist. If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse. That's just a fact," Rumsfeld said.

"I mean I looked at them last night and they're hard to believe," he said. "And if they're sent to some news organization and taken out of the criminal prosecution channels that they're in, that's where we'll be. And it's not a pretty picture."

..

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, asked Rumsfeld during the hearing whether he had seen the video. Rumsfeld said he had not seen it.

"Apparently the worst is yet to come potentially in terms of disturbing events," Graham said.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040507/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_video_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

Those photos need to be splashed on every single TV, paper and news outlet from here to Timbuktu.

We love taking credit when the news is great, but when the news is bad, well, thats different.

Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.

harms way from the blow back more public pictures will cause. I just keep thinking about all the DUers that have kids over there.

We need to push the issue now. We have lost the moral high ground, if we ever had it. I don't think we did, but now it is hopeless. Bring our troops home now!!!!!!!!!!1

d. (U) Mr. Adel L. Nakhla, a US civilian contract translator was questioned about several detainees accused of rape. He observed (sic): “They (detainees) were all naked, a bunch of people from MI, the MP were there that night and the inmates were ordered by SGT Granier and SGT Frederick ordered the guys while questioning them to admit what they did. They made them do strange exercises by sliding on their stomach, jump up and down, throw water on them and made them some wet, called them all kinds of names such as “gays” do they like to make love to guys, then they handcuffed their hands together and their legs with shackles and started to stack them on top of each other by insuring that the bottom guys penis will touch the guy on tops butt

(U) With respect to the 320th MP Battalion, I find that the Battalion Commander, LTC (P) Jerry Phillabaum, was an extremely ineffective commander and leader. Numerous witnesses confirm that the Battalion S-3, MAJ David W. DiNenna, basically ran the battalion on a day-to-day basis. At one point, BG Karpinski sent LTC (P) Phillabaum to Camp Arifjan, Kuwait for approximately two weeks, apparently to give him some relief from the pressure he was experiencing as the 320th Battalion Commander. This movement to Camp Arifjan immediately followed a briefing provided by LTC (P) Phillabaum to the CJTF-7 Commander, LTG Sanchez, near the end of October 2003.

Everything that contributes to the deligitimization of this whole criminal fiasco is a blessing in the not-so-long run. Everyone - Americans, British, Iraqis, and the other coalition members - will be out of harm's way sooner if it leads to the cessation of this invasion and occupation. Suppressing the truth in the name of the troops is not only wrong, but harmful to them, as they will be stuck there years longer than they should.

I mean every truthful thing, of course.

If all this comes out, it could make it harder for Bush to start even more horrible wars. But, you know, I worry about all Americans overseas. I'm not seeing many reports, but how can other nations not see us as barbarians?

I am in Canada, and I am sure that most Canadians would agree that getting rid of Bush in the next election (the bigger the margin, the better) would be a great first step in helping to re-establish the reputation of the United States. Lots of us have relatives in the U.S., watch U.S. television and other media, visit the U.S. on vacation or work, and consume American culture, so we tend to be favorably disposed to the U.S. in general (or at least we want to be). I think this is true in lots of other countries also.

My fear is that Bush wins the election, especially if it cannot be explained away as electoral fraud. That would really tarnish the reputation of the U.S., as it would be seen by the rest of the world as consent to Bush's policies by the American population. Then the U.S. really would be seen as barbarians by many around the world.

I, too, think that is a must and, really, that he should be impeached. I'm glad you know all Americans aren't - well, you know.

But most of his siblings went to the U.S., and thus I have plenty of relatives in the States. I remind myself of that fact when Bushco's actions make me feel a bit glum about our neighbor. Besides, most people on DU are American, and reading their very intelligent and incisive commentary helps me to keep things in perspective.

the United States. I won't want my children to grow up here.

yes, we should all worry now - I cant even imagine going
to the holy land or anywhere in the mideast, heck anywhere
with the possible exception of --Antarctica. We might as
well paint a broad target on our backs when we go abroad,
thanks to "mission demolished"

There is enough out there now to use politically against the regime. Any more snuff photos will just put our troops in more danger and cause more unneeded hate against all Americans. More pictures are not needed.

The release of these photos does not put our troops at risk. Bush puts our troops at risk.

Don't want to upset the SHEEP

If we don't destroy them before the mongrel armies get to das Vaterland, they will be used against us for political purposes for the next three generations. If you have any photos, any negatives hidden away in an attic, take them out and burn them before the invaders come.

and I think we need to face what has happened to this country and never forget. We can't run from this. It hurts, but this is what has been done. If I were one of those prisoners I would not want their attackers to be allowed to throw away the evidence and pretend it never happened. That is adding insult to injury. This administration has gotten way out of hand so far as power and arrogance go. We have bullied and pushed countries for our own selfish gain. We use so much more than our share of natural resources and not only that, but we waste it. We have technology to help other countries, but we don't. Just take and take. This administration and its policies have damaged us, we as a country, have allowed it to happen and now we have to face these facts and do something about it, at least IMHO.

What frightened me was when rummy apologized and was not so arrogant. It must be really bad.

The only thing we have left in this country is our Constitution. If we throw that out the window, we have nothing left.

The Constitution guarantees freedom of the press and freedom of speech. If the government doesn't release all the evidence associated with this atrocity, they are guilty of censorship and violating the Constitution.

forward the worse will always be thought of Americans and open to much propaganda and embellishment.

Purging and getting to the truth would be the best policy.

If those get splashed across the world's TV screens, the last couple of weeks could look like a golden age.

Rummy just said that the 1000's of other photos and videos will
be more disturbing, showing countless acts of physical violence.

So much for the "abuse" v. "torture" debate.

We need to see all the photos, and the videos, and interviews
with those that did it... and answers to questions as to
"who ordered you to do it... who said this was OK?"

I want to show the troop supporters pictures of the 16 year old boy being ANALLY RAPED While their Heros stood by and watched

just from the first batch of pictures that were published last week. Apparently, the kids at the prison liked to burn the pics onto CD ROMS and pass them around.

The problem for Rummie is they can no longer control the situation. Yes, the worse is yet to come, because the videos are very explicite. What we will see next, will make Pvt England look like a Girl Scout.


It's time to send lawyers, guns and money, the shit has hit the fan.

They won't show that one on FAUX. Only a teddy bear parade for the sheep.

real kinky now...Wonder which genius ordered that?!
Do you have the url to this story? Are these videos/pix on the net as yet? I haven't done a search, only read what's being posted on DU, so far..These pukes must be charged for all this!

Was always the ultimate oxymoron (oxymoran now?).

I just finished wading through the entire Taguba report (the 53 page
summary) and the asshole that apparently "ordered" this is none other
than Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller.

Here is the time line that MSNBC reports

Aug. 31-Sept. 9, 2003
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who runs the military prison for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, conducts an inquiry on interrogation and detention procedures in Iraq. He suggests that prison guards can help set conditions for the interrogation of prisoners.

October-December
Many of the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib take place during this time period.

Oct. 13-Nov. 6
Maj. Gen. Donald Ryder, provost marshal of the Army, investigates conditions of U.S.-run prisons in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib. He finds problems throughout the prisons. Some units, including the 800th Military Police Brigade, did not receive adequate training to guard prisons, he notes. He also says military police (MPs) should not assist in making prisoners more pliable to interrogation, as their job is to keep prisoners safe.

Nov. 19
The 205th Military Intelligence Brigade is given responsibility for Abu Ghraib prison and authority over the 800th Military Police Brigade.

November
Two Iraqi detainees die in separate incidents that involved CIA interrogation officers.

Jan. 13, 2004
Army Spc. Joseph M. Darby, an MP with the 800th at Abu Ghraib, first reports cases of abuse at the prison.




At the very end, Taguba names names, including the most of the
PFC and specialists now facing jail time and the officers that
were reprimanded... plus ONE OGA worker (not contractor, but a
CIA agent) who, along with the MI Brigade, created the conditions
for the abuse and torture to take place.

Oh, and the VERY FIRST motivating factor in the report was a complete
breakdown of morale BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY (the military police
battalion) WOULD BE GOING HOME LAST SUMMER, right after BUSH gave
his "major combat operations over" speech... leading them to believe
that the internees would be released very soon and they could all
go home with a hearty MISSION: ACCOMPLISHED. Shortly after that,
they found out that they would be staying indefinitely, and...
well... they became demoralized.

Taguba doesn't make any excuses for what happened, but the
explanations are quite illuminating. These guys thought they were
doing what the army WANTED, and that, since the Geneva conventions
didn't apply (implicit in the "basis of operation that MG Miller
TOLD them in his review") that everything was NOW being done to
soften up the prisoners for better interrogation.

"I ordered the code RED for Santiago." "You want the truth, you
can't HANDLE the truth". (So MUCH of this movie is paralleled
here and now, it's scary)

... getting a blowjob from a Whitehouse Intern, right? After all THAT was REALLY worth spending nearly $100 million of taxpayer money to investigate! :eyes:

Isn't it funny how their standards change? :puke:

videos....

wonder if these reTHUGlican Senators will be able to continue their 'little' mantra that it isn't really torture, it's just abuse....once the videos with the AUDIO come out...

My heart is beating faster. I'm just having a hard time keeping up with all the sordid news. At this point, I'd say we're cooked. We're finished in Iraq. We need to get our troops out of there, quick.

This prison has been the kiss of death for us.

.. is in there, too ... just so the Freeptoids know what kind of friends their "leaders" keep.


:hippie:

around much more than it has been.

I'm getting drunk tonight like the name-calling dispicable poor white trash I am.

Not at all....

it wasn't so much to go after legitimate pornographers as it was to protect the malAdministration.

Frankly, I wouldn't put it past them

...that while they were supposedly looking for child porn and other obnoxious stuff, they were actually looking to put a lid on these pictures...

to explain that this perverted abuse and torture is a direct result
of a culture of pornography that infests the US.

First they have to admit that it wasn't just a prank after all.

Another Bush promise bites the dust.

They deserve nothing according to the CHIMP.. Torture is OK they are just animals.

On the radio on the way home HANNITY was at a rally for the troops saying its understandable why they acted that way.

After all ISLAMICS ATTACKED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER---- THE CROWD CHEERED.

KILL A RAG EHAD FOR JESUS. </RANT></SARCASM>

and forcing them to brey like a donkey?

Is that 70 y.o woman still alive, btw, or did Rummy's boys fuck her, only to deny it later, as the Serbs did, protesting, "She's too old and ugly to fuck. I wouldn't lay my bicycle next to her."

That was an Ann CLwyd story and she refused to provide details and would not name the US military unit involved. She is the "Saddam's People Shredder" creator so I wouldn't worry about this one. According to Clwyd the lil 'ole lady who got her jewellery back and the situation is "resolved".

A detainee at the Abu Ghraib Prison shows his wounds at the detention facility on the outskirts of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites) Friday, May 7, 2004. He said that he was earlier wounded during fighting between American forces and insurgents. Controversy continues surrounding the treatment of the prisoners last year, when photos were taken showing abuse by American soldiers. (AP Photo/John Moore

Open him up to explore?!?! Gheesh!! And why are they having to hold the man behind him up? Several arms.. at least two people are trying to prop and/or support the man in the back....

:puke:

"Hmmmmmmm ..."

How did Sy Hersh get tipped off to this in the first place, anyone know?

I'm glad to see it being reported, but the fact that pains are being taken to point the finger at the CIA - in addition to military intelligence and contractors (of companies likely crawling with CIA) - I just can't help but wonder if this was an administration leak to ratchet up the battle over the Valerie Plame affair and investigation.

Oh, the games people play.

I think the CIA is leaking the photos/videos as punishment for the Plame affair. The WH packpedaling and finger-pointing at intelligence looks way too panicky to me to be intentional.

Logically, it makes sense. Releasing the photos now is maximizing the damage to B's election campaign. They couldn't have come at a worse time. And what's worse, there's more to come, apparently much worse.

I did read here at the DU a while back that the CIA basically "declared war" against the Bush administration because of the Plame affair. I guess the moral of the story is, don't cross the CIA and expect to get away with it.

That the CIA might have been the leakers has occurred to me, but there've been so many people pointing fingers at them, it's hard to tell. That's a big bullet to swallow.

fun fun fun.

on computers...which would indicate they have found their way to the internet or very easily could.

Here is a scenario....perhaps someone in the military has anonymously indicated that he or she has these products on a server....with their finger on the button ready to disseminate globally. Maybe plying some sort of blackmail...you do what I say or I release everything instantly. Perhaps he or she has indicated that the administration and congress must address the situation and convict those above enlisted ranks. Maybe the photos we have seen as yet were the teaser....just to let our great leaders know that the jig is up....and they're serious, have what they say they have and are fully capable of dumping more into the public domain.

I find it somewhat odd that no mention has been made as to where exactly these photos came from...who exactly made them available and where they got them. At least I haven't heard anything.

Suffice it to say, if I had the compendium of all the photos and the vids...you can bet your sweet ass I would use them to force the admins hand...in a big damn way. It would be a VERY simple process.

After todays "hearing" I'd send a quick email and say...sorry...not good enough...and drop a few more into the public domain. I'd continue this course of action until the whole fucking crew quit being evasive...and took credit for their massive fuck ups.

I suspect this is why Heir Rumsfeld dropped the rather cryptic bomb that many more photos exist and many more shall be seen. He and the CIA may be racing the clock trying to find the leaker before they are forced to come clean. After all...why would more be released? If they exists solely in the perview of the US military, one could assume that they would prevent further releases of worse material. Evidently the government is not the source of what has been released...and if the government knew the source you can bet it would be shut down with prejudice.

Just my suspicions...

RC

RC

That is the question.

that was genius.


that's exactly what I did.



failure.

He is very critical (as was a previous investigation by a Major
General Ryder) of one Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who was the
MI commander at Gitmo. Probably when he heard that this same
Miller was to replace Karpinski (which I suspect was made at least
a month ago), he leaked the story WITH the photos himself.

Clearly such a move, without the major leak, would have covered up
the whole mess (other than rumors of investigations and some low
level grunts getting whacked).

So Taguba decided to get this to the press, complete with photos.
CBS held it up for 2 weeks but had to run with the story when Sy
got it. And I bet Sy got it because CBS was holding it... and I
would think that Taguba did that too.

This Asshole Miller is on CNN right now. He certainly sounds
and looks like a complete f*ckwad.

just where Taguba is and why HE wasn't on the panel addressing the committees yesterday. . . . .

While most of these things are or have been considered at least somewhat shameful in most cultures, they are considered unspeakable offences in most Arab societies. One of the photographed prisoners told reporters in Iraq this week that he will never be able to move back to his hometown because of the shame.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040507/IRAQPHOTOS07/International/Idx


Indeed, many of the victims say they are expressing stark disbelief that anyone would ask them to do such things.

"The interpreter told us to strip," Hayder Sabbar Abd, who had been in favour of the U.S. invasion of Iraq until his time in Abu Ghraib, told The New York Times this week. "We told him, 'You are Egyptian, you are a Muslim. You know that as Muslims, we cannot do that.' When we refused to take off our clothes they beat us and tore our clothes off with a blade."


on edit: check out their LITTLE POLL

Friday, May. 7, 2004


Do you think U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld should resign over Iraq?


Yes
16601 votes (79 %)

No
4505 votes (21 %)

NOW is the chance for someone to show their is decency left in the world. Type your message below to the French embassy, or call the German embassy--

>>>Tell them to cut off relations with the US Bush Administration, to protest the Iraq tortures!

French embassy:

http://www.info-france-usa.org/comment.asp

German Embassy
4645 Reservoir Road NW
Washington, DC, 20007-1998
(202) 298-4000
 

What were they trying to get from these detainees? What information were they after? What information were they thought to have?

This is more in the "because we could" category.
No higher purpose.

Recall that we train the world how to terrorize and repress their internal populations right at Ft. Benning, Georgia. At the School of the Americas (recently renamed but it still tastes the same). The School is also known as the "School of the Assassins" and "School of the Dictators" and trained the best and brightest of the right wing juntas and death squads that lord over Central and South America.

Isn't the purpose of Abu Ghraib to terrorize and repress the Iraqi citizenry? Into accepting American dominance, the installation of a puppet regime, adoption of pauperizing neo-liberal schemes that open the nation up to ripe pilfering by American corporations?

Why was John Negroponte appointed our first Ambassador to the new Iraq? John, who lorded over Honduras during the early eigthies during the Battalion 3-16 attrocities and rampant run of death squads? And, f*ck me, he's appointed by a 95-3 vote in the Senate (is there no hope left in the world?). Is dear John going to do for Iraq what he purportedly did for Honduras?

Are the picture releases the height of FUBAR? Or something worse? PNAC needs chaos, not peace, to advance its agenda. Were the pictures unleashed to intentionally inflame? Recall Rumsfeld's P2OG: His special team with the mission to provoke terrorists into attacking in order to smoke them out and destroy them. Is this a P2OG operation?

Nothing happens in politics by accident. I don't think this was an accident. Perhaps it's becomming an example of the unleashed broomsticks in Disney's Fantasia and Rummy and Cheney have unleashed powers they cannot control. If so, I for one am not looking for Bushit* to appear as the wizard who reigns Mickey's chaos back in. Which means if it wasn't intended as FUBAR, it's FUBAR now!! Chaos and disorder will rule the foreseeable future. Bottom line: Bush lied; so many died.

Torture everyone, somebody may give us a tip that can be twisted into evidence for WMD.

I'm puzzled about this, too.

There's a piece of information that we are still missing. What was so important that the CIA interrogators had to know, that soldiers were ordered to torture children in front of their parents?

<snip>
Some of them were reportedly trained at the U.S. Army interrogation school in Fort Huachuca, Ariz., where interrogation instructor John Giersdorf boasted in 2002 that his job "is just a hair's breadth away from being an illegal specialty under the Geneva Convention."
<snip>


This is the stuff of nightmare's AND on top of that this military.. this admin trained these type of people just for things such as this!

Touching the line, but not crossing it, eh? Truly and pathetically disgusting and all in the name of freedom! :cry: :puke:

The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence. Due to the extremely sensitive nature of these photographs and videos, the ongoing CID investigation, and the potential for the criminal prosecution of several suspects, the photographic evidence is not included in the body of my investigation. The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team.

In addition to the aforementioned crimes, there were also abuses committed by members of the 325th MI Battalion, 205th MI Brigade, and Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC). Specifically, on 24 November 2003, SPC Luciana Spencer, 205th MI Brigade, sought to degrade a detainee by having him strip and returned to cell naked. (ANNEXES 26 and 53

"The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team."

Hersh obviously has an insider. I believe that Hersh has everything and is sitting on it trying to figure out what to do, knowing that it can bring down an administration and set off the Iraq powderkeg.

That is General Smith's job. He was ordered to find all copies and confiscate them.

Maybe this is the cutting off point?

The shrub's got it all under control

Good captians, too.

"A regime that has lost its legitimacy will also lose its power."
Sept 2002 at the UN.

He got it.

Like a cancer, Bush needs to be cut out. Problem is, we'll need to live through the chemo.

Sounds like Hersh has already seen the video from what he said on the Diane Rhem show this past Tuesday.

It's obvious he has a source inside. I suspect whomever the source is that had access to the first set of published photos and the report also has access to the worse pics and videos.

In fact, most likely they are already out waiting for publication. But I'm sure Hersh and his editors are thinking long and hard about releasing them since it could bring down the Administration and blow up the Iraq powder keg.

Maybe Rummy knows Hersh et al have the other pics and video and has asked Hersh to hold them until we finish trying to remove Sadr. Notice how we left Fallujah within the CBS 2-week hold time? Then the anti-Sadr Shia banded together like never before to try and convince Sadr to "go home."

If the video and pics are released before Sadr is neutralized, everyone knows that his anti-American militia will quadruple over night and the moderate Shia who detest him will be sidelined.

That's my suspicion - that Hersh has copies but is sitting on them.

I found yet another version of the "Convoy of Death" video. 3000 Afgan POWs slaughtered in US custody. This version is an hour long and in Real format. (Requires Real Player)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3267.htm

prisoners being stuffed into drums and boxes...but this film is eye-opening