Female Soldier Charged With Abuse

(CBS/AP) Army Pfc. Lynndie England, shown in photographs smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners, was charged Friday by the military with assaulting the detainees and conspiring to mistreat them.

England, 21, faces four allegations, according to a statement from the XVIII Airborne Corps at Fort Bragg.

She is accused of "assaulting Iraqi detainees on multiple occasions;" conspiring with another soldier, Spc. Charles Graner, to mistreat the prisoners; committing an indecent act; and committing acts "that were prejudicial to good order and discipline and were of nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces through her mistreatment of Iraqi detainees." <snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/07/iraq/main616209.shtml

But the culture will continue. Can you say scapegoat?

Driver www.roachblog.blogspot.com

Start pissing off some of these RW military parents...go after their kids.

Lynndie ruined Iraqi lives. She used shame, and did so knowingly. She deserves to be punished. If her parents don't like it, they can complain to Rummy.

"...Spc. England frequently visited Graner, a one-time Pennsylvania prison guard, there are published reports Graner had a history of domestic violence.

CBS News has been told that England and Graner, both divorced, were involved in a romantic relationship in Iraq and that England is four monts pregnant with Graner's child..."

This thing could play out in the US as "sex perverts in isolated abuses--sent to Leavenworth for a zillion years" Now move along, there's nothing more to see here....these poor (guilty) saps could end up as the only ones behind bars.

Driver www.roachblog.blogspot.com

That doesn't change anything other than guarantee the happy couple a spot on Oprah.

These people had supervisors, and their supervisors had supervisors. What created this climate of abuse? This is the question.

on these days, no wonder most folks in the US don't seem to understand what the big deal is. Maybe TV actually is the root of our cultural malaise these days.

In the meantime, I nee to go scrub my eyeballs to get that horrible image you planted out.

Driver www.roachblog.blogspot.com

or Jerry Springer.

Good question which to my annoyance wasn't asked yesterday. To me, it's two-fold,

most importantly, when you're fed a diet of "Saddamite remnants, foreign terrorists and thugs" by the White House day in and day out, with no recognition at all that some of these people are just angry as hell at the occupiers, it seems to me that this encourages the type of behaviour we've seen. Remember the Jews in Germany were constantly referred to as vermin etc by the Nazis. Irrespective of what Rumsfeld knew, it's the climate he (and Bush) perpetuate that makes the WH so complicit;

secondly, you've got ill-educated, terrified, hot, "patriotic" (probably fundy) young Americans out there with little oversight - what do you expect ? This has to be systemic. When Rumsfeld said yesterday there were 6 people under investigation out of 135,000, this is disingenuous. On 1 photo, there were 10 officers in the shot, many of them just standing around going about their business while many of these humiliations were going on in front of them !!!

BTW, I see Libya is having a pop at the US over human rights - this is the main problem now - the US has no credibility at all when it preaches about democracy, decency and freedom - none. It won't have for decades unless Bush does something serious like sack Rumsfeld. I'm not sure that the WH is aware of just how difficult, nay impossible, the task of reconstruction in Iraq has now become.

I'd like to find out who was there for the murder of 3000 Afghani prisoners in 2001.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=109&topic_id=8699

There was a flurry of concern right after the 2001 defeat of the Taliban, but it was all swept under the rug by saying, "It wasn't us, it was these brown skinned Muslim savages that helped us! We couldn't stop them!" I'll see if I can find a link and edit...

(Edit) Here's one:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,776841,00.html

Driver www.roachblog.blogspot.com

From the article...

There appears to be no evidence that the US knew of the deaths, nor that American officials saw or were involved in putting prisoners into unventilated trucks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,776841,00.html

The "Convoy of Death" documentary contradicts this, with witness statements that Americans were present throughout -- and were involved. (I need to watch the documentary again.)

The most recent article I can find on this particular atrocity neatly avoids attributing any responsibility to U.S. forces -- except for an eerie, possibly intentional reference in the last sentence: "... an attempt to nullify the Tipton men's stories of abuse at American hands."

US Afghan allies committed massacre

What a sad situation for the unborn child...:(

imho

Army Pfc. Lynndie England was wrong and needs to
be accountable, but it was her superiors that put
her up to performing those cruel acts.

the superior officers who 'put her up to it.' The Nuremburg defense will never bee applicable again.

Lynndie England is pictured in her 2001 senior portrait from Frankfort High School in Short Gap, West Virginia. England was identified as being pictured in some of the recently released images taken at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. The scandal exploded last week with the release of photographs showing grinning uniformed personnel posing in front of naked detainees. One photograph that first appeared in the Washington Post May 6, depicted a naked Iraqi on his knees with a leash around his neck that was held by an American servicewoman, identified as England



Ribbons and flags are displayed on the front door of Kenneth and Terrie England's trailer home, in Fort Ashby, W.Va., Friday, May 7, 2004. Kenneth and Terry England are the parents of Spc. Lynndie England, an army reservist shown in photographs humiliating Iraqi prisoners. (AP Photo/Carolyn

Jessica Klinestiver holds up a picture of her sister, Spc. Lynndie England and boyfriend Spc. Charles Graner that was taken during a vacation at the beach last summer during a news conference Friday, May 7, 2004, in Fountain, W.Va. England and Graner have both been implicated in the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. England has not been charged. She has transferred to Fort Bragg, N.C., where England has declined to leave the base because she does not want media attention, Klinestiver said. Graner faces a possible court-martial on criminal charges of maltreatment and indecent acts, according to his attorney, Guy Womack.

Wasn't Lynch from there too?

...and two VERY different people.

Question for you...do you know anything about West Virginia, or are you just prone to making broad generalizations?

up in all this kind of shit.

And I don't see where I was making a "broad generalization" perhaps you can point it out to me.

in a "trailer"? Is that somehow indicative of the kind of person she is?

Oh, yeah, right, it's one word -- "trailertrash." Anyone who can't afford (or doesn't want the responsibility of) a "real house" must be trash.

Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they're bad.


sorry for the mini-rant. it just bugs me.

White trash is another one I don't like because:
- well, it is just calling people trash, which is wrong.
- there seems to be an implication that there is white non-trash, white trash, and everything else, who are trash by definition. Maybe I just read that part into the phrase, but I don't think I am far off in inferring that. People who throw these terms around don't strike me as likely being particularly tolerant, and that would reach into matters of race, religion, ethnicity, etc.

Also, I gather the phrase white trash originally referred to southern poor whites, who associated with blacks, and therefore were considered 'trash' by bigots. And 'trailer trash' just seems like a synonym for 'white trash'.

Sorry for the mini-rant too. I hope I didn't offend anyone who uses these phrases, but really don't mean anybody ill-will.

which I happen to be, but it would annoy me greatly if someone else referred to me that way.

Some people feel that way about other well known racial terms. That is why I added the part about hoping I didn't offend anybody with that little rant.

because they are the ones who are offensive.

I live in a mobile home and I don't consider myself "trailer trash." And I am not poor. I live in a mobile home out of choice because I own it outright and do not have any high house payments. All I pay is $300 a month for lot rent.

In fact, there was a headline in one of the British online newspapers which said "Trailer Trash Shames U.S." Well, I fired off an e-mail and really blasted them.

Along the same lines, since I have been in Florida, I have heard more than a few comments related to the value of people living in mobile homes (I guess the industry term for it is "manufactured housing") somehow being tied to the number of teeth they have. In fact, someone I was speaking to once actually said this after having gone through an exposition of how ads for designer clothing convince people to buy them by appealing to one's sense of self-worth. I was just speechless when this person could not see how hypocritical this was. Anyway, my response is usually something along the lines of what a person has to offer on the inside is more valuable than a damn tooth, or if we had a government that cared about its citizens, these people would have teeth because we would have universal health care, which included dental care.

There...there's my little rant. :)

Otherwise, there would be no concrete proof of the abuse had he not been stupid enough to take the picture.

Stupidity will get you killed.

...will be used by the right wing, where it deserves to stay. I heard it when Lt. William Calley was prosecuted for the My Lai massacre. "I was just following orders" hasn't been a defense since Nuremberg. IF she was told to do these things as part of an interrogation scheme (and I don't buy that story yet), she had a duty to say no.

as well as those foolish enough to follow the orders.

We have photographic evidence that she committed war crimes. I meant that all attention will be focused on her and those higher up will skate away.

... the higher-ups should not get off.

I hope that no one is going to fall for this and think that because she is charged that is any kind of satisfaction. This rotteness goes right to the top and should not stop with the lowly soldiers who were on the pictures.

A scapegoat is by definition innocent.

I didn't realize that a scapegoat was actually an innocent. I don't believe she is innocent at all, she's guilty as sin. I want them to start with the guilty on the bottom and take it all the way to the top.

Since Rummy had a serious problem of mumble-itis today (he couldn't name any names, apparently, even though they kept asking him questions), she can get her ass on the witness stand and start talking.

And you know, she will. She'll name names. Their asses will be dragged in, and the dominoes are going to start falling.....uphill.

They will most probably stop at ---------- Rummy's desk. I'll bet anyone here $5.00 that it will go that far.

Meanwhile the corrupt military rushes to cover a pile of MANURE WITH ROSE PETALS

turn on the TV and get a load of JEFFREY MILLER Military apologist extraordinaire.

I mean, how embarassing for them, to see their daughter the focus of so much negative attention.

Do you think they're upset at what she did? It must be hard enough to be privately disappointed in one's child, but when her horrible acts are so public and every one is calling her a monster, and the parents remember the sweet little girl who did ____________ (insert nice deeds here).

Or maybe she was always a brat who tortured small animals. Or heck, maybe the parents are patially responsible. Maybe they never taught her to respect human dignity. Maybe she was the school bully and they were proud of her for beating up boys much bigger. Maybe they're secretely proud of her now, but wouldn't dare admit it.

I dunno....

They're upset at all the blame being placed on her. Saying things like, "she's not like that," "she's a good girl," etc.

And if she really always was a good girl, and they think these acts awful, I feel bad for them.

Here we can see how the male dominated military undermines women who surve in the army. She was probably put up to do all of that stuff, I am almost certain in that. Being the only female in that unit she had to perform for the camera being told to by the "mysterious" military intelligence command.

made me do that kind of shit to another human being. What Pvt. England did was wrong and she deserves to be punished for it. This does not mean she is the only one deserving of punishment, but don't make excuses for her because she's female. She has no excuse.

Must be quite stressful right now

Her kid should be taken away from her. She's not even a respectable human, just a step below the S.S. Death Camp Guards in my book. "Just following orders" isn't an excuse and the courts have upheld that position. If she doesn't spend time in jail, there's no justice in the world.

.
.
.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/08/content_328726.htm

I watched Rummy's two performances today.

I was amazed at all the waffling and non-response to direct questions, even when the direct questions were repeated.

I do not think Rummy has a full understanding of how many nations were watching him today. The rest of the world watches a question asked, then - well, where's the answer?

I don't think too much of the world was fooled by what alot of the newscasters labeled as "democracy in action"

What action?

I STILL didn't hear many answers to the questions.

The world wants immediate action. They are not going to fall for this "channels" and "systemic" arguments.

What we see is called "stalling".

OH,

Some seem curious why there is so much attention paid to Lynndie?

Well, it was not too long ago the US was making a big hoopla about a Female American Hero.

The LIVE hero, not the 700+ dead ones.

The world must find the US a most curious lot.

Lynndie has a most unenviable place in history.

No story or psychoanalytical reasoning will undo the message those pictures tell.

Remember, there's alot of people in the world that can't read, don't read, or just won't bother too.

The pictures ARE the story.

Forever.

American's as a group are ethnocentric--MY country right or wrong--- OUR Troops Right or Wrong---

THESE SHEEP have no clear idea of how Rumdumb's tap dancing and waffling and LYNNDIES PHOTO SERIES play in the rest of the world.

In fact most of these Cretins say 'FUCK THE REST OF THE WORLD"

SAD SO SAD-- Amerikan's will be compared to BEASTS for a long long time.

Reports about abuse arouse when the four brittish detainees where released.

Assume that little error won´t happen again.

I hope she goes to prison for at least 10 years. I want her in front of a war crimes tribunal. I will not let this woman off. Pregnant or not! Scapecgoat my ass. She is incredibly guilty. Who is next Lynndie? Who did you report to? I've had it with these sick people to tell you the truth, just me. I think this is criminal and I want people to serve the time for their incredibly sick actions, they do not represent me!

On edit: Special just to: Army Pfc. Lynndie England,

You are a shame to me and to every one that wants to call themselves "American". You are such a dissappointment to us all. God help you dear, and it must be nice to know that George, the 2nd is praying for you as well. I am certain you will all find the special place you are deserving of.