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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:12 AM
Original message
Google censors ads criticizing Bush, lets pro-Bush ads continue
Exclusive to The Raw Story, http://www.rawstory.com

By John Byrne
RAW STORY EDITOR

In a stunning move by the fledging search engine firm known for its open access to information, the Google AdWords program has suspended the account of an advertiser selling playing cards intended to poke fun at President Bush. The firm suspended the account for its use of keywords "George Bush," "George W. Bush," "President Bush," "Bush Cards," and "Bush Decks."

It also specifically blocked the ad for the search term "war profiteers."

"At this time, Google policy does not permit the advertisement of websites that contain language that advocates against an individual, group, or organization," a Google email remarked.

Advertisements promoting pro-Bush playing cards continue to run on Google and its affiliate sites, including George Bush Playing Cards, "52 Reasons to Re-elect G.W. Bush," and "Political Playing Cards." Another ad appears for a tamer site selling caricature cards of the President's associates, saying, "George Bush may not have a full deck."

At the time of this writing, Google also continues to run an ad for Showtime's "American Candidate" under the search term "Bush," headlined, "Beat Bush, save America."

The blocked advertisement, for "Deck of Bush," contained the phrase "54 reasons NOT to re-elect the President."

<snip>

The creator, Jerry Vasilatos, noted that Google seems to have no problem with running ads for pornography websites, including those which appear to advocate criminal behavior. Four advertisements come up for the search term "underage boys."

"The hypocrisy regarding their definition that 'Google policy does not permit the advertisement of websites that contain 'language that advocates against an individual, group, or organization' is astounding," he remarked. "While Google prohibits ads promoting our website because it contains "language that advocates against an individual group" (President Bush), apparently it condones advertisements for websites promoting sex with the underaged which we think advocates criminal behavior against individuals and groups (underaged children)."


Full story at http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/byrne/google_bans_cards.htm ... Still developing, check back later today...
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Had this happen to me.
My ads for http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/ were censored in just this fashion. I finally had to remove the words "Impeach Bush" from my site before Google would let my ads run!
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. "Had this happen to me."
It happend to you to Ben? Wow.....I wondered how democrats.us had them on their site.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. Seems to be no rhyme or reason...
I think they mostly notice sites that Google users complain about. If the amount of hate mail and the number of death threats I get at White Rose are any indication, I'm betting that people complain about me all the time.
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Supormom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Hello Ben
I love your site!
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. Thanks!
Send your friends! :-)
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stewert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Google Rejected my Website

I tried to get some googleads for my website and they rejected it.

======

Notice: To all DUer's who read this

I have an emergency, last friday my computer died on me so I need to raise
the money for a new one. I am on my brothers computer right now, him and his wife
both work all day until 4:00pm so I can use his computer during the day.

On top of that the server for my website is having problems so the donation page is
offline. I have been working on a new website blog and I have a copy of the donation
page on it.

So I would appreciate it if you could make a donation again to help me buy a new computer.

Here is the donation page, it has a link to my paypal account. And my snail mail address etc.

http://www.realusanews.com/donate.htm

Stewert

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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. the other day someone posted
here that if you google"lying prick"guess which 2nd in command's name comes up...
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. This same thing happend to me!
When I opened my website, I applied for their "Google AdSense" to make some money. They denied me because of "Sensitive Content". Yeah, I bash W. But WTF? I have a legit news site!
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Here's the e-mail they sent us (Denied)
>From: Google AdSense <adsense-support@google.com>
>To: dubyad40web@hotmail.com
>CC: Google AdSense <adsense-support@google.com>
>Subject: Google AdSense Account Status
>Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:32:54 -0700
>
>Hello dubyaD40.com,
>
>Thank you for your interest in Google AdSense. After reviewing your
>application, our program specialists have found that the website
>currently associated with your account does not comply with our
>policies. Therefore, we're unable to accept you into Google AdSense at this time.
>
>We did not approve your application for the reasons listed below. If
>you are able to resolve these issues, please feel free to reply to this email for reconsideration when you have made the changes.
>
>Issues:
>
> - Sensitive content
>
>---------------------
>
>Further detail:
>
>Sensitive content: Google believes strongly in freedom of expression
>and offers broad access to content across the web without censoring
>search results. At the same time, we reserve the right to exercise
>discretion when reviewing sites for AdSense. We've found that your
>website contains content that we don't allow at this time. AdSense
>policy doesn't currently accept sites that advocate against any
>individual, group, or organization. Please review our policies
>(https://www.google.com/adsense/policies) for a complete list of site
>content not allowed on web pages.
>
>---------------------
>
>For a complete list of AdSense criteria, please visit:
>https://www.google.com/adsense/policies?hl=en_US
>https://www.google.com/adsense/localized-terms?hl=en_US
>
>If you would like to submit another website for consideration, simply
>reply to this email and provide us with the URL. If this new website
>complies with our program policies, we will help you start delivering
>AdWords ads in minutes.
>
>Please contact us at adsense-support@google.com if you have any
>questions.
>
>Regards,
>
>The Google Team
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Lying Hypocrites
Google "John Kerry" and one of the sponsored links on the right is:

Kerry is Scary Shoppe
Political gifts, clothing, stickers
with The Scream head of John Kerry!
www.cafeshops.com/bushnotkerry
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Um, who are the lying hypocrites?
Not to be accusatory, but are you suggesting the posters here who claim google refused their ads are the lying hypocrites, or that google is?

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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Who
does the information in my post indict?
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. I think he means Google...
From what was shown in the message.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Yes
Google.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Please, I was only asking
You merely said "Lying Hypocrites" and then posted that Google had adlinks to (what seemed to be) anti-John Kerry sites, so I didn't know if that evidence proved Google was hypocritical for linking to anti-Kerry sites or the poster was hypocritical for saying Google didn't do political ads.

If I incorrectly inferred ambiguity, my apologies.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. No apology necessary
I didn't take it personally. Sorry for any ambiguity.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Ummm... this could be potentially illegal
It's more than bad policy. If Google tries to ban ads from the Kerry campaign critical of Bush, it's probably illegal. Search engines are new tech, but there's piles of case law out there for traditional media outlets which makes it clear that a business cannot reject political campaign advertising.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. Banning anti-Bush but not anti-Kerry ads might be illegal.
But what is the status of web-based enterprise?

At the very least, it could be the basis of a boycott of Google.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Just called the FEC... some info
Edited on Tue May-18-04 12:12 PM by mouse7
There really aren't FEC regs governing the net yet. There are advisory opinions. If there is a particularly blatently outrageous offense, they might be able to do something.

To fit the category "outrageous," I have a feeling it means Google must actually refuse the Kerry campaign itself an ad buy. They just don't have regulations to fall back on yet set in stone that would allow pursuing violations against independent groups.

If this was about a newspaper or TV station, the rules are clear and precise. They just don't have rules about the net written yet.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. And the FEC then called me back... Google IS violating FEC regs
Edited on Tue May-18-04 01:01 PM by mouse7
Google can't accept anti-Kerry ads and not accept anti-Bush ads.

I can't file a complaint. I'm not an offended party. Here's the link to the FEC page for filing complaints for those of you who have tried to purchase anti-Bush ads and been refused...

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/complain.htm

Get documentation of the Anti-Kerry sites that Google runs ads for as you do this.

Now... the realities of the situation are that independent party complains will move through the bureaucracy like molasses. Again, if Google actually turned the Kerry campaign organization down, things in the FEC office would move much more quickly.

That doesn't mean that filing complaints is useless. I mentioned earlier that the FEC is in the process of formulating it's internet regulations. Obviously, we have an area that needs to be set in stone for future elections. Previously wronged parties will get a far greater opportunity to be listened to when the new regs are drafted.

So, don't let this fall between the cracks. Go to the link and follow up on the complaint.

Also, norw that I've got an FEC opinion on the matter showing Google acting in violation of FEC law, it's time to act. We should seriously consider how to best effect a boycott of Google for as long as they are acting in violation of Federal Regulations.
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Almost_there Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. Illegal? I don't think so. Immoral? Perhaps.
I can't even fathom a scenario where this would be "illegal". Google as a private, non governmental company can do pretty much anything. If the DU can monitor who is on this site (thank goodness!) Google can certainly determine who uses their site. I would have to really explore the immorality of it, only because thankfully, when you search George W Bush on Google, the 4, 5, and 6 returns are anti-Bush things. The top is of course www.whitehouse.gov, but, anti-Bush bumper stickers are right up there!!

We do have to remember that Freedom of Speech is NOT protected on private entities. I can't just go into someone's house and tell them what a nut Bushy is, as much as they can't come into my house and tell me that Kerry is an alien from Altair-4.

Its important to know that the First amendment has limitations and applies only to public speech. Google is a totally private entity, and I don't even think that this is really "anti Kerry", they get so many hundreds of requests a day, I would guess that there are key words (maybe "bad words", maybe catch words they created to be picked up) that the system catches, flags and has an actual person look at.

I hate to be on the side of Google here, but, playing Devil's advocate here is easy. I would like to know the politcal bent of the owners of Google, and I am not willing to label them right wing nuts without knowing or seeing some proof other than this.

~Almost
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. The FEC enforcement person TOLD ME it was illegal
Edited on Tue May-18-04 01:55 PM by mouse7
I don't care if you can or can't fathom a scenario where it's illegal. It is illegal for a business to play favorites between political parties regarding ad placement.

The realities are that the FEC isn't going to bother expending the budget chasing, for example, a small fish like freerepublic.com for refusing Kerry ads. Google is another story. It owns 75% of the search engine market. Google's virtual monopoly of the search engine market guarantees any Google advertising placement policy will be scrutinized.

The FEC cannot force a private company to take ads or not to take ads. However, whatever their policy is toward one party must be guaranteed to be identical to all parties. That's why we all get to watch LaRouche ads every 4 years.
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Almost_there Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
75. OK, don't care away...
See, its not if they accept or decline this ad or that ad. It is if the ad is in compliance with their posted rules and regulations. If the ad has key words, meta tags, anything that goes against their regulations, bam! It don't go up. It would be like ABC refusing to run a Bush ad because he said John Kerry is know to be a commie terrorist. Well, OF COURSE THEY CAN DENY THAT! It goes against their written policy. Googles policy is about 4 pages long (I have 3 companies that have AdWords on Google, and I can easily see where a site could run afowl of their policy).

So, if Google is basing their decision on political favoritism and NOT their policy, then they better damn well fess up. And I am sure your friend at the FEC is correct, assuming that this is a political ad, running under their scrutiny, with budget constraints etc, I don't know where they can come in. Otherwise, it could be considered in the "soft money" gray area, where the FEC can't touch.

Seriously, I understand what you are saying, but, let's say that they accept a GW Bush ad and a John Kerry ad. How is it determined which pops up and when but, what the person puts in the meta tags of the ad. If I search for "President of the United States" (I haven't yet) I would expect to see dubya under the search results, and MAYBE ads for both dub and Kerry. If I search for Democratic National Committee donations, I would like to see something relevant in the AdWords panel, but, if the ad wasn't in compliance, I wouldn't expect it to be up.

However, in agreement with you, IF Google dropped the ad not because of something to do with their policy, AND DUB'S ADS COMMIT THE SAME INFRACTIONS, well, there should be hell to pay.

~Almost
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. You do claim to know more than the FEC's own enforcement staff.
You're saying you know the FECs job better than the FEC own enforcement staff does. I think that claim should be treated with the respect such a claim deserves. Pardon me if I defer to the expertise of the FEC enforcement staff vs. generic guy on the net with no supporting evidence other than his own rants.

Google's posted rules and regulation are inconsistant and inconsistantly enforced. That's the problem. If you had read a word of this thread, you would understand that by now. Instead, you are arguing you know FEC rules better than the FEC staffers. Nobody treats such claims with any seriousness whatsoever.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Not what I get
I get:
US election news - FT.com
Up to the minute headlines and
coverage of the US elections.
www.ft.com

Virtual US Election
For the rest of the world, vote now
Help the US find a president
worldpeace.org.au

John Kerry
Hey there you Democrat. Get your
vintage style JFK in '04 tee now.
PalmerCash.com
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. When doing a search...
from www.google.com I don't get it but if I search from my Internet Explorer it comes up.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Different ads each time
Google generates different ads each time, so you don't always get the same ones.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. Adwords don't always come up.
You have a "Budget" for how much you will spend on your site per day. Later in the day, your budget might be exhausted and your ad will not show until the next day.
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gold_bug Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. hmm I got Dubya Dolls
http://dubyadolls.com/
in the sponsored links when Googling for John Kerry.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
48. We'll see how fair Google are
I just reported this ad as a terms of service violation... We shall see if they pull it.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Keep us posted
Let us know what they say.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Will do
I'm betting they just ignore it.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. Here is the automated receipt for my complaint.


From adwords-support@google.com Tue May 18 13:25:14 2004
Delivered-To: benburch@xxxxxxxxx.net
To: benburch@xxxxxxxx.net
From: "AdWords Support" <adwords-support@google.com>
Subject: Re: <#10058739> I think this ad "Advocates against a person" and should be pulled.
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 18:23:51 -0000
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied

Hello,

Thank you for your message. This auto-generated email is to confirm that
we received your inquiry.

We strive to reply individually to advertiser emails within one business
day. We appreciate the urgent nature of your message, and will respond as
soon as possible. You can also find the answers to commonly asked
questions in AdWords Support at: https://adwords.google.com/support

We look forward to providing you with the most effective advertising
available.

Sincerely,

The Google AdWords Team


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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. No to AdSense
You don't want to be part of AdSense anyway -- they sometimes seem to close accounts at random just before they're supposed to pay you, costing people hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars, for "invalid clicks."
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. I typed in War Profiteers...
And everything came up fine.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. They ban ads for the term
They don't ban searches, just ads for "war profiteers."
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. D'OH!
Sorry. It's almost bed time and I should pay more attention.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. Goodbye Google
And I used to like their toolbar.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. Say what?!?!?!
:grr:

:argh:
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OilemFirchen Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Policy? Policy? We don't need no steenkin policy!
Googled John Kerry, got "Kerry is Scary Shoppe".

Liars.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Whoa!
I'm adding this to the story!
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Please do
raw-

I added this to our site too!
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chenGOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
93. The ads change all the time...
Edited on Tue May-18-04 11:39 PM by chenGOD
for example when I hit the link you provided today, I got an ad for some game about running for president.

When I googled "John Kerry president" I got an ad for cafepress.com. The advertised seller? KerrySwag


On edit: oops, i missed the part about the "anti" policy. Never mind then.


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DavidMS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. I think a few hundred emails might help...
Edited on Tue May-18-04 10:01 AM by DavidMS
comments@google.com

Let them know this is unecptable, I just did.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. Google addresses and phone numbers for those who prefer them
United States

Headquarters
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043
phone: 650-623-4000
fax: 650-618-1499

New York Sales & Engineering Office
1440 Broadway, 21st floor
New York, NY 10018
phone: 212-624-9600
fax: 212-624-9605

Atlanta Sales Office
1200 Abernathy Road
600 Northpark Town Center
Suite 1700
Atlanta, GA 30328
phone: 770-551-8288
fax: 770-551-8179

Boston Sales Office
20 Park Plaza, Suite 473
Boston, MA 02116-4399
phone: 617-948-2670
fax: 617-948-2671

Chicago Sales Office
444 North Michigan Avenue
Suite 620
Chicago, IL 60611
phone: 312-840-4100
fax: 312-840-4101

Dallas Sales Office
222 W. Las Colinas Blvd., Suite 1650
Irving, TX 75039
phone: 972-444-2554
fax: 972-444-2545

Denver Sales Office
8310 South Valley Hwy
Englewood, CO 80112
phone: 303-524-1749
fax: 303-265-9912

Detroit Sales Office
39555 Orchard Hill Place
Suite 600
Novi, MI 48375
phone: 248-465-8650
fax: 248-920-0305

Los Angeles Sales Office
895 Dove Street, Suite 300
Newport Beach, CA 92660
phone: 949-851-6565
fax: 949-645-9341

Santa Monica Sales & Engineering Office
2644 30th Street, 2nd Floor
Santa Monica, CA 90405
phone: 310-460-4000
fax: 310-450-6686

Seattle Sales Office
701 Fifth Avenue, 42nd Floor
Seattle, WA 98104
phone: 206-262-8220
fax: 206-260-8964



Global

European Headquarters
Seagrave House
19/20 Earlsfort Terrace
Dublin 02
Ireland
fax: +353 (1) 436 1001

Australia Sales Office
Level 20 Tower 2 Darling Park
201 Sussex Street
Sydney 2000 NSW
phone: +61 (0)2 9006 1090

Canada Sales Office
130 King St. W., Suite 1800
Toronto, Ontario M5X 1E3
phone: 416-865-3361
fax: 416-945-6616

France Sales Office
54-56 avenue Hoche
75008 Paris
phone: +011 33-1-56-60-56-60
fax: +011 33-1-53-01-08-15

Germany Sales Office
ABC-Strasse 19
20354 Hamburg
phone: +011 49-40-80-81-79-000
fax: +011 49-40-49-21-90-77

Italy Sales Office
P.le Biancamano, 8
20121 - Milano
phone: +39 02-6203 3005
fax: +39 0295441215

Japan Sales Office
6F Cerulean Tower
26-1 Sakuragaoka-cho
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo 150-8512
phone: +011 81-3-6415-5200
fax: +011 81-3-6415-5201

Netherlands Sales Office
Atlas Complex
Africa Building
Hoogoorddreef 9
1101 BA Amsterdam Z.O.
phone: +011 31-20-312-0474
fax: +011 31-20-524-8150

Spain Sales Office
Madrid Lopez de Hoyos
Calle Lopez de Hoyos 35-1
28002 Madrid
phone: +011 34-91-745-99-46
fax: +011 34-91-141-20-25

United Kingdom Sales Office
The Courtyard
12 Sutton Row
London W1V 5FH
phone: +011 44-20-7031-3000
fax: +011 44-20-7031-3001


Driving directions
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043

From San Francisco Airport and Points North

Merge onto US-101 SOUTH
Take the RENGSTORFF AVE/AMPHITHEATRE PKWY exit
Turn right on AMPHITHEATRE PKWY and drive over highway
Turn right onto CHARLESTON ROAD
Drive past Landings Drive
Turn left into driveway at the "Google" sign at ALTA AVENUE
From San Jose Airport and Points South

Merge onto US-101 NORTH
Take the AMPHITHEATRE PKWY exit
Turn right onto CHARLESTON ROAD
Drive past Landings Drive
Turn left into driveway at the "Google" sign at ALTA AVENUE.

------------------------------

That list ought to cover all needs ;-)
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
22. I think we better get some statements from Google on phone
I'll call once it's after 9 AM on the West Coast. Some others should too. We can compare notes from those calls and determine where to go from there.
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duvinnie Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
24. I dont trust google
to keep my surfing info private. ever since their lame
proposal for reading peoples email to target adverts.
also heard some ominous stuff about their willingness to
spy on behalf of the spooks..
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justjones Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
30. But, but, I thought Google was a pretty progressive company!?!?
Reading about their recent SEC filing to go public, I thought they were pretty progressive, what with how they are handling their IPO, how they treat their employees, the overall mission of their company, etc. etc.

Plus, remember when you could type in the words "Weapons of mass destruction" and that page popped up that said they could not be found?

This to me seems like a fundamental contradiction. Giving them the benefit of doubt, could this nonsense be the result of some individual rather than the leadership of the company?

I will definitely be writing a letter to the CEO's of the company hoping that they will clarify their position on this matter. If this isn't some kind of mix up, or if they don't change their position on listing ads that criticize the chimp, which we have every right to do since his policies directly affect the same society Google claims to want to make better, it will be more than a disappointment, Google will prove themselves to be a bunch of hypocrits.
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bushgottago Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
32. Google rejected BARTCOP
Turned him down. Refused to explain why.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
35. Looks like nobody takes phone calls at google
I just tried to get past the first level of ad words customer service people and two different guys at the 866-2google (Ben and Chris) refused to even allow me to talk to get as far up in the decision tree as the phone room supervisors. That's ridiculously tight screening. Kept asking for my contact information so the phone room supervisors could get back to me. Yeah, right. We all know what happens if you wait for supervisors to call you back about a controversial corporate policy.

So basically right there, we already have indications of a corporate culture of a totalitarian nature in which customer needs do not matter.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Damn, even "premium level (10K+ ad budgets)" get call screened
Edited on Tue May-18-04 11:50 AM by mouse7
I just called the Seattle field office. No humans answering phone whatsoever, even for high dollar sales.

This is corporate arrogance at a level I've never seen before. Even big ad accounts are on a "don't call us, we'll call you" level of communication.
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Not taking calls huh?
You'd think a company like Google, the new "darling" of the IPO's would be better than this. It just proves they're another conglomo. I've had it with them!!!!!

I think it's time we hammer them! EVERYWHRE!
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
39. That's okay...
...I put in the query "George Bush","ajbect failure" and got 1,810 hits last night.

Nothing anyone can do can cover up for how insanely wrong, idiotic, and dangerous this guy and his cabal are. Why so many people are rushing to the defense of this idiot (and yet who were practically torch-bearing mobs towards Clinton) is beyond me - I mean, what do they get out of it? What's in it for them? Just some food for you to think on.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
41. Well, supposedly, Google has an "anti-anti-ad words policy
February 13, 2004: Anti AdWords Strike Again
Google's long-standing policy of not accepting AdWords for any site they deemed "Anti", which previously banned ads for a weblog criticizing actor John Malkovich's anti-semitism, has now been used to stifle more political speech.

The nonprofit Oceana, which works to protect the world's oceans from pollution, has also been kicked out of the program for running ads publicizing Royal Caribbean's pollution and sewage treatment.

Google continues to serve ads for Royal Caribbean cruises and the so-called Church of Scientology, a cult which most notoriously killed Lisa McPherson.

The problem with Google's Anti policy is not that Google should have no control over the ads it runs, but that it is far too broad and unfairly punishes people with opposing viewpoints, while letting the original viewpoint get off free.

Under the Anti policy, Scientology is allowed to promote its murderous cult, but its detractors are not allowed to point out that harm it causes. Royal Caribbean can promote its polluting cruises, but Oceana cannot discuss how they pollute. The President could promote his agenda, but the opposing party could not respond with its problems

These opposing viewpoints are not hate speech or offensive, they simply try to provide readers with all the facts. By only permitting promotion and never caution, Google does us all a disservice, and makes it seem like there is only one side to every issue. This is the antithesis of the democratic Web Google claims to support.

Posted by Aaron Swartz on February 13, 2004 01:09 PM

http://google.blogspace.com/archives/001170

However, the "Kerry is scary" shop you guys found disproves that policy.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
42. Google as Big Brother
And then there were four


Google is one of about four search engines that matter. There are many more than four engines, but only about four have the technology to crawl much of the web on a regular basis. Google and Alltheweb do the best crawling. As of July 2003, Yahoo owned Overture, Alltheweb, AltaVista, and Inktomi, and finally dumped Google in February 2004. Everything needed to turn Yahoo into a major search engine and pay-for-inclusion ad agency, at a level that can compete with Google, is under Yahoo's roof. Early evidence suggests that Yahoo will shoot themselves in the foot with all of this firepower -- their desire to monetize everything appears to be high on the agenda. Google, on the other hand, has been selling out only recently, and still shows some "pure search" residue from its early roots.
Even Microsoft, which is busy developing its own engine, is currently squeezed between the advertising engine of Overture and the search engine Inktomi -- both of which are Yahoo property. Microsoft might like to buy Google as a way out, but Google is not for sale. Even if it were, there might be antitrust problems that prevent such an acquisition.

Just as Microsoft was late to recognize the importance of the Internet, they are once again unprepared to take on Yahoo and Google. In 2003 Microsoft began experimenting with their own crawler at a very low level. Good search engines need many months of practice before they can crawl the web effectively, and order the results so that searchers perceive them to be relevant. Some observers doubt that Microsoft has the coordination to achieve through in-house technical development, what they cannot achieve through acquisition and market manipulation. Even though they have announced that they are pouring resources into search engine development, this time it will take more than talk.

That gives us Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft. The last one worth watching is Teoma/AskJeeves. Their search technology is good, and they seem serious about expanding their crawl. It remains to be seen how deeply and consistently they will be able to crawl websites with thousands of pages.

Google is easily top dog. They provide about 75 percent of the external referrals for most websites. If you count Google's partners as part of the mix (particularly Yahoo and AOL), this figure is closer to 85 percent. There is no point in putting up a website apart from Google. It's do or die with Google. If we're all very lucky, one of the other three will offer some competition within a year or two. If we're not lucky, we will be uploading our websites to Google's servers by then, much like the bloggers do at blogger.com (which was bought by Google in 2003). It would mean the end of the web as we know it.

It is worthwhile to understand the pressures that the average, independent webmaster is under. And given that Google is so dominant, it's important to understand the pressures that are being brought to bear on Google, Inc. It does not take too much imagination to recognize that there's a struggle going on for the soul of the web, and the focal point of this struggle is Google itself.

At one level, it's a struggle for advertising revenue. The pundits look at only this level, and are unanimous that the only advertising model on the web with any sort of future is one where little ads appear after being triggered by keyword searches, or by the non-ad content of a web page. For example, a search for Google Watch may show some ads on the right side of the screen for wrist watches. While the technique doesn't work for this example, often it serves its purpose. There is only so much pixeled real estate that the average user can be expected to survey for a given search. Today up to half of each screen is dedicated to paid ads on Google, as compared to the ad-free original Google. Everyone wants a piece of this new wave in web advertising, and Google is making a lot of money.

Unfortunately, early evidence suggests that Yahoo is less interested in pure search algorithms, than in acquiring market share in a pay-for-placement and/or pay-for-inclusion revenue stream. The same may be true for Microsoft. Even Google, dazzled by the sudden income from advertising, must be wondering why they go to all that trouble and expense to crawl the noncommercial sector. Those public-sector sites, such as the org, edu and gov domains, do not provide direct income, even though the web would be unattractive without them. All the excitement over a revived online ad market, pushed by pundits hoping for another dot-com gold rush, is beginning to look like the days when AltaVista decided that portals were the Next Big Thing. That notion caused AltaVista to lose interest in improving their crawling and searching -- which is how Google succeeded in the first place.

There has been almost no interest in establishing search engines that specialize in public-sector websites. Where is the Library of Congress? Where are the millions of dollars doled out by the Ford Foundation? How about the United Nations? Why can't some enlightened European entity pick up the slack? Everyone is asleep, while the Internet is getting spammed to death.

At another level, it's a struggle over who will have the predominant influence over the massive amounts of user data that Google collects. In the past, discussions about privacy issues and the web have been about consumer protection. That continues to be of interest, but since 9/11 there is a new threat to privacy -- the federal government. Google has not shown any inclination to declare for the rights of its users across the globe, as opposed to the rights of the spies in Washington who would love to have access to Google's user data.

Much of the struggle at this new level is unarticulated. For one thing, the spies in Washington don't talk about it. Congress has given them new powers, without debating the issues. Google, Inc. itself never comments about things that matter, and as a private corporation is largely unaccountable. The struggle recognized by Google Watch has to do with the clash of real forces, but right now all we can say is that potentially this struggle could manifest itself in Google's boardroom.

The privacy struggle, which includes both the old issue of consumer protection and this new issue of government surveillance, means that the question of how Google treats the data it collects from users becomes critical. Given that Google is so central to the web, whatever attitude it takes toward privacy has massive implications for the rest of the web in general, and for other search engines in particular.

Call it class warfare, if you like. Because that brings up the other major gripe that Google Watch has with Google. That's the PageRank problem -- the fact that Google's primary ranking algorithm has less to do with the quality of web pages, than it has to do with the "power popularity" of web pages. Their approach to ranking is anti-democratic, in that already-powerful pages are mathematically granted extra power to anoint other pages as powerful.

It's not that we believe Google is evil. What we believe is that Google, Inc. is at a fork in the road, and they have some big decisions to make. This Google Watch site is trying to articulate and publicize the situation at Google, and encourage more scrutiny of their operations. By doing this, we hope to play a small part in maintaining the web as an information tool that is more useful for the masses, than it is for the elites.

That's why we and over 500 others nominated Google for a Big Brother award in 2003. The nine points we raised in connection with this nomination necessarily focused on privacy issues:

1. Google's immortal cookie:
Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.

2. Google records everything they can:
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation."

3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save.

4. Google won't say why they need this data:
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.

5. Google hires spooks:
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington.

6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf, and yes, it reads your cookie too. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you connect to Google (which is many times a day). Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google. Any software that updates automatically presents a massive security risk.

7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."

8. Google is not your friend:
By now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. Webmasters cannot avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming they want to increase traffic to their site. If they try to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, they may find themselves penalized by Google, and their traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time Google doesn't even answer email from webmasters.

9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
With 200 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved.

http://www.google-watch.org/bigbro.html

To make up for the length of the post.... it looks like the gent at googlewatch.org does a good job keeping an eye on google issues, and would recommend you check out his site :-)

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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. RE: Google as Big Brother
Holy crap! That's some powerful stuff! Now I'm convinced: We need to "bring 'em down!"
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
43. another google oversite page...WatchingLikeAHawk.com
link...

http://www.watchinggooglelikeahawk.com/

Linked at this page... this article...

"Google's Ethics Committee revealed
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco
Published Monday 17th May 2004 23:24 GMT
While it carries the imprimatur of objectivity, science doesn't operate in an ethical vacuum. As the late Stephen Jay Gould often pointed out, scientists make value judgments all the time, and science is a reflection of wider social values <*>. At Google, the gatekeeper to a trove of digital information, as everywhere else, it's humans not machines who make value decisions. But perhaps more than any other company Google has strived to convince us that machines not men should take responsibility for these decisions.

The Google News page claims, "The selection and placement of stories on this page were determined automatically by a computer program". But this program didn't program itself, of course, and when pressed for more detail of what constitutes news or a news source, Google's explanations have been tortuous and evasive. In a more recent case, Google issued a response to groups protesting the placement of a vile hate site at the top of a search for "Jew", Google issued an explanation: "The only sites we omit are those we are legally compelled to remove or those maliciously attempting to manipulate our results." However, this doesn't entirely give the full picture: the People's Republic of China has succeeded where the Jewish Anti-Defamation League has failed, and Google censors results for Chinese Internet users. Few take such claims that the machines, or algorithms are solely responsible, at face value. We can argue that Google is right or wrong - but we can't dispute that it's making value judgements.


Thanks to a resourceful Israeli journalist, we know a little more about how such decisions are reached. Google has an Ethics Committee, the company's Dr. Eran Gabber revealed yesterday to a group of Israeli students. Google never mentions such details to the press, but Ido Kenan, a reporter for the daily NRG Maariv found himself in a recruitment talk by Dr.Gabber. (A blabbing blogger had spilled the details of Gabber's visit to Tel Aviv University).

"We change PageRank™ when we find that spammers are abusing it, but we don't change it often. There's an internal ethics committee in Google," Maariv reports. "Internally, there are people who are concerned about ethics. In Google, there are a lot of people who find ethics important".

As well they should. However news of unannounced Ethics Committee is at odds with earlier reports that Google amends search results on the fly, as reported last year. Kenan has tried, without much success, to press Google on what is included in its News site, one of the most popular web destinations. The answers he received from Google News mirrored Krishna Bharat's acrobatics in an interview with a trade publication last autumn, which we discussed here...."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/17/google_ethics_committee/
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Almost_there Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. Hold on a second. This thread is getting weird...
OK, Now, correct me if I am WAY offabse, but, I am getting a sense that "they should be totally anti bush, not anti Kerry", and if they show a pro bushy thing, they must show a pro Kerry thing.

Google is a COMPUTER DRIVEN search tool. Totally based upon users and what they click, what they search for, and where they end up. How do you think "Miserable Failure" pops up to the White House web site? I am a very staunch believer in Free speech, and that goes for Left, Right, Center, Progressive, Reactionary, and Fundie Christians. I have googled John Kerry 5 seperate times, and I come up with different ads (only once did I see an anti Kerry ad in the AdWords column, all times first 4 sites minimum were pro Kerry / Kerry's own site (johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway? weirdo). Anyway, what I am getting at here is why are we pissed at Google? because they turned down an ad that they maintain EVERY RIGHT TO DO. When I google George Bush and George W Bush, I get a mix of pro and anti stuff, and that suits me fine, Whitehouse.gov does come up first (relevancy weighting I am sure), but, anti bush stuff is right in the mix, and I saw AdWords for anti Bush stuff for sale.

I am willing to bet the whole thing is because of key words that were used that tickled their system. I am not willing to condemn Google as being Anti Kerry until I see proof, and one ad getting turned down is far from proof. Let's be realistic. That's all I'm saying.

~Almost
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. You misunderstand this almost totally
This is NOT about the search engine itself at all.

This is about the featured ads that appear with buyer-selected keywords.

Check out http://adwords.google.com for more details on this program.

The beef is that they will take ads from sites that trash Kerry, but will not take ads from sites that trash Bush in ANY way.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. So... I suppose you're more of an expert than FEC enforcement?
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:03 PM by mouse7
There's a reason I was non-committal until I heard from FEC enforcement. I really didn't know whether FEC regs would apply to anything on the net yet.

However, the speed of the FECs response, and the detailed response the FEC person gave me regarding the FEC position that Google was in violation of FEC law, and the proceedures for filing complaints made it clear that Google isn't a little outside of the box here. She was clear that a major provider of advertising cannot have different policies for different political groups.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I think he didn't know what we meant...
he thought that we were referring to the search engine, not their commercial sales of ads.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. He made it clear in post #50 he meant paid ad words, too
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:10 PM by mouse7
Private company can do what a private company wants.... which is hog wash. We all know the broadcast outlets would refuse LaRouche commericals if they could, but what you allow to any political group, you have to offer to every political group.
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Almost_there Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #61
79. I guess I did misunderstand. Maybe.
I guess the thing I don't understand is Google's AdWords system is totally automatic, and the computer puts the ad there based upon relevance. Relevance is weighted on your sites content from index page, sub pages, and meta tags.

The thing I am trying to get across is we don't have the full story, at least maybe I don't. If the site in question put in meta tags that violate Google's AdWord policy, then how can they publish the site? They cannot. If a pro bush site is up with the same violations, IT MUST COME DOWN! Period. End of debate, I lose.

But, if the Kerry site breaks the rules, and the Bush site adheres to them, how can there be a bitch from the FEC? It can't be 3 minutes, one article on rawstory (great site, btw) and WHAM! Down goes Google. I am a HUGE fan of Google technology, I have purchased 2 Google search appliances, and I understand their technology, and love it. That's where maybe I am getting mislead by myself. I am of the assumption that the ad was rejected for content, not that it was political in and of itself, but, that SOMETHING in the ad was a flag.

If a pro Bush ad put in ANTI Kerry stuff, it should get locked down IMMEDIATELY. Shouldn't pass muster. I truly wonder if they are wondering about psuedo copywrite issues, since they are pro Kerry, but, they have another name on their site.

If dubya put up a site that said "Kerry Sucks", "Waffle" (I remember when the rethuggies tried to get waffle to come up with John Kerry's site), and things that pointed to Kerry's negatives, no way could Google carry it. At least I hope not, THEN we would have MAJOR FEC violations. Here, I just don't see it. Sorry. Don't mean to get your dander up (Dave Barry: what is Dander?), and I agree with the concept, I am just concerned that we are trying to force people to break policy for political ads.

But, I believe that in any political ad you can NEVER mention your opponant's name. I really believe that. You can ONLY talk about yourself, no one else. I wish that were the case, it would A) Save SO much money, and B) Expose bushy for the shallow crappy pres he is. His ad would be about 3 seconds long.

"Hi, I landed on a carrier. I said the war was over. Whoops. WMD's? Uhh... Look over there!"

~Almost
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. If you had read a word of the thread...
You would know that all these decision are NOT made by computer. Adwords suitability decisions are made by Google staff members.

Next time, read before ranting, not after ranting.
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GermanDJ Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
55. Here's something that might rehabilitate this great search engine
I stumbled across this while looking through the other forums here at DU:

"DU's "Top Ten" at 3rd Place on Google Search"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1621750


Seems that Google is not "the enemy" after all :toast:
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Again, it is not the search engine.
It is the PAID PLACEMENT ads that Google sells.

Nobody is yet saying that there is anything inherently unfair about the Google engine itself with respect to political speech.

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
60. This is nonsense.
Let's see...
I go to google and type in "George W. Bush"

What's ad #1?

Bush You're Fired T-Shirt
Don't like the job Bush is doing
Get your Bush You're Fired T-shirt
www.bushyourefired.com

In 5 subsequent searches, this ad came up one more time.

Ok... let's do 6 searches on "John Kerry" just to let the ads circulate a bit.

Gee! Guess what? No anti-Kerry ads.

Does this make Google anti-Bush? Hardly. It makes google a BUSINESS that makes BUSINESS DECISIONS about what ads to run and what ads not to run. So all of this nonsense about FEC violations is moot, because they DO run anti-bush ads.

What say y'all to that?
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Again, you don't seem to know how it works.
Try your Bush and Kerry searches earlier in the day. Later in the day, many ads have used up their daily budget and will not appear. 4 AM Central Time seems to be the best time to test this out.

Now, I do know that I had my ads pulled for;

1. Saying "Impeach" Bush in my site's keywords.

2. Having an unretouched news media picture of George W Bush making a gesture that resembled the Nazi salute.

3. Calling Bush a Fascist.

I have also had my whole site rejected for displaying Google ads from others because of "Sensitive Political Content." And I know of anti-Democrat and anti-Kerry sites that are indeed allowed to make money from running such ads.

This is NOT nonsense. All that needs to be shown is that they will more often censor anti Bush ads than anti Democrat ads for there to be a pattern of abuse.
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. RE: "Again, you don't seem to know how it works."
I think our site was denied because of the whole "Cheney's Ticker" thing. It's our ticker that counts the days since his last heart attack.

I don't know why, at least it's a fact!
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. You mean like these guys?
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:36 PM by yibbehobba
Imagine our surprise when Google suspended this campaign as well. The Ronald Reagan merchandise did not offend, however. After rehashing their policy proscribing 'advocacy against' anyone, Google informed us that they had browsed other items offered for sale in AIM's website -- but NOT promoted on Google. Google wrote that such items as the "'Bill Lied,' 'Impeach Hillary' and 'Forget Buddy, Neuter Clinton ' bumper Stickers as well as other shirts, buttons and books on your site are not acceptable."

http://www.aim.org/briefing/A100_0_5_0_C/
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Okay, you have one counterexample.
I'll grant you that. But that does not negate the pattern. Most likely this site was banned after a specific consumer complaint.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. From your same article...
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:57 PM by mouse7
Nice creative cut n' pasting there...

"We have later found that Google is not even being consistent. There are some anti-Ted Kennedy, Daschle and liberal items as well as pro-gun merchandise slipping through the cracks of Google's stated policies. Deliberate or not, BIAS is still BIAS."

I agree. Google's standard for determining what it will and won't accept regarding political speech advertising is a mess. It's damn near impossible to figure out. No one is supposed to have a right to determine what appropriate political speech is and isn't. Google needs to get out of the way, and let people express themselves about politics in any manner they choose.

This isn't a matter of Google holding to some "snob apppeal" standard either. Google has a whole adult content section in it's directory and advertising with some incredibly tasteless porn to be found in it.

As mentioned above, if google allows advertising for "underage" porn, it's gonna allow have to allow any and all political speech.

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. You just made my point for me.
My point wasn't that google's policies don't suck - my point was that they're not biased against liberals, as so many people here are complaining. I've heard numberous complaints from people on both sides of the political aisle, as well as many who were trying to post ads with NO political content.

If you can propose a system whereby google maintains strict control over the sheer volume of ads that they show, I'd love to hear about it. This problem is endemic with these kinds of services and aren't just limited to google. Frankly, I think they do a decent job. And, quite frankly, I'm leery of this whole idea of DEMANDING that google run equivalent ads from both sides of every political issue. Do you want to see ads for the Rush Limbaugh show on DU?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. Media providers ARE NOT allowed to filter political speech content
Google's policies and standards are random, erratic, and unequally enforced. That's the problem.

If Google allows ANY political advertising, they are supposed to allow ALL political advertising. That's the law regarding political speech.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. So you're more of an expert than the FEC, too?
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:21 PM by mouse7
Google is picking and choosing what political speech they will allow and won't allow. Supposedly, it's based on an anti-attack ad policy. However, the anti-attack ad policy doesn't count satire. So who is deciding what is satire and what is an "anti-word" attack that is barred?

The FEC made it clear Google isn't supposed to be in the business of filtering political speech it will and won't allow in it's advertising.

My personal opinion is that if it isn't borderline indecent, then it's supposed to be allowed. LaRouche has been allowed to say lots of whacked out stuff in his ads. A media provider, especially a media provider with 75% market share, cannot be allowed to determine what political speech/views are appropriate, and which are inappropriate. If there aren't 4 letter words and boobies in the ads, they should be run.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. And what did you tell the FEC?
Exactly?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. I gave them the background story and links involved
Edited on Tue May-18-04 02:42 PM by mouse7
In the initial call, they said there might be violations, but they didn't know if there was enough in previous advisory opinions to enforce an internet violation.

The FEC person called me back and said there was enough and companies must sell political advertising to all interested parties in the exact same manner. Google was already in violation of FEC law for putting up barriers in an unequal fashion, and took me through the complaint process.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. So...
Who's gonna go buy up some ad space for Kerry on freerepublic?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. So you're going to try to make a case based on extremes?
Like I already said, the FEC doesn't waste budget on small operations. Yes, freeperland would technically be in violation for not running a Kerry ad, but freeperland is too small a fish to bother with. Google is another story altogether. Google controls 75% of the search engine market share. It's a virtual monopoly, and therefore is much more tightly controlled by regulators.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Freeperville...
controls approximately 75% of the lunatic fringe RW market. Can we consider it a monopoly, too?

:)
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
65. Okay, we will test it out.
I just applied for an AdSense publisher account for White Rose. Under this program, ads would be displayed and I would get a small payment from Google.

I firmly expect that they will again reject my site for having sensitive content.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #65
92. Well, I'll be damned.
They approved it this time.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
66. So... who is filing FEC complaints?
I'll stay active in helping out if you guys are planning to take real action. I haven't been refused an ad, so I can't file.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Do I have standing to file a complaint?
If so, how?
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. If you have the records from your last rejection, you're set
Edited on Tue May-18-04 03:01 PM by mouse7
Go to the FEC complaint link I gave above and start filling out the paperwork.If not, you're doing the right thing by starting the process over so you can get nice fresh rejection docs. If they come back refused, then proceed.

(on edit) Don't apply from an anonymous server/e-mail account. Don't give them a secondary reason for rejection.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
87. I'm not certain that I have everything from last time.
That is part of why I am tweaking the lion again...
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
78. I think I will re-apply our site to....
I'm almost positive when they see the word "Dubya" in our address, they will reject us again. Then I'll file too.

I don't know what will happen, but if anything, the word is getting out!

Too bad the media doesn't see stuff like this. This would rock the IPO news.
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LeftIsBest Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. If google begins to start this form of censorship it will only hurt them
because they will begin to be boycotted and with their new stock that is bad for business
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. They aren't starting it. They've been doing it for a long time.
I guess it's ticked off enough people over time to start reaching critical mass.
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cestmoi Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
88. Google has also dropped ad for a 9/11 related documentary
XXI CENTURY is am award-winning independent documentary film about the American Empire and event around 9/11. HOWEVER, THE ADS FOR THIS AWARD WINNING DOC WERE ALSO DELETED by GOOGLE.

As stated on their web-site "A couple of days ago we put a couple of ads on Google for our documentary “XXI CENTURY”. The ads were immediately deleted by Google, because “Unacceptable”. In the ad one could read “American Voices Against Bush”. This was considered “UNACCEPTABLE”. Also, keywords such as “Peace”, “No War”, “Activism”, “Torture” were considered “UNACCEPTABLE” by Google.

We are in a free country, after all…"

FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT GOOGLE'S DELETION SEE: http://thecatsdream.com/news.php


p.s. Check out participants in this doc:

Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Howard Zinn, Arno Mayer, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Scott Ritter, Susan Sarandon, September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, Nelson Mandela, Jesse Jackson, Desmond Tutu, The Nation, Ramsey Clark, Danny Glover, Angela Davis, Jessica Lange, Greg Palast, Ossie Davis, American Civil Liberties Union, Indymedia, Al Sharpton, Pete Seeger, Harry Belafonte, Democracy Now!, Veteran for Peace, United for Peace and Justice, FAIR, Pacifica Foundation, International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, MediaChannel, Not in Our Name, International ANSWER and many other voices of dissent.

http://www.customflix.com/Store/ShowTtl.jsp?id=205672

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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Aren't the Silversteins related?
Craig Silverstein google director of technology (son)
Larry Silverstein WTC lease holder (father)

I remember it mention right after 9/11 & I thought it could be found.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
89. If Google Is Censoring Advertising
Then they're also placing their paid advertisment content in the search result itself.

I did a little experiment with some of the search engines and came up with significant differences in the information displayed. More useful information I was seeking came up on different search engines.

Goodbye Google and its Spyware Toolbar.

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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. They change your ranking if you Advertise
One really nefarious thing they do is push your search ranking down if you advertise with them so that you'll click through the ad (and pay for it) rather than getting a hit free from a search.
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