Flight 93 Families Dispute FBI's Theory

WASHINGTON - Families of passengers who rebelled against hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 93 said Friday the FBI theory that the terrorists deliberately crashed the plane into a Pennsylvania field was based on "limited and questionable interpretations" of the cockpit recording.

The theory — described by FBI Director Robert Mueller and disclosed deep within a congressional report on the Sept. 11 attacks — suggests insurgent passengers may not have successfully fought their way into the cockpit and grappled to seize the plane's controls, as has been popularly perceived.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=2&u=/ap/20030808/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/attacks_flight_93

I couldn't spot the plane.

Can you?
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

this stuff is just ignorant.
are you an expert on planes hitting buildings?
there are NUMEROUS photos on the web and such where you CAN see the plane.. just becuase this one doesn't show all the photos doesn't mean crap.

I guess that the people on the ground who saw the plane fly just barely overhead and run into the pentagon, those MANY air-traffic controllers and all other witnesses werein on the mass conspiracy.

That, or.... there's some fanatics out there, that crop, cut, and paste 'parts' of the story to make it look like something happeend that didnt.

sad.

I think an airplane didn't really hit the two towers either.

they edited all that footage.

and learn to spell.

Here's another:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911timeline10pg

I can see where the wings entered the ground floor level. And I am an architect so I have a very good idea of what the structural response to the "hit" would have been. Also, this "wedge" of the Pentagon was recently fortified against explosions so it would have better resisted the impact and hindered penetration to the inner rings. I know this for a fact from consultants who actually worked on that "upgrade".

I have no doubt that it was a plane! Not only that, one of my colleagues was walking across the parking lot that morning and SAW the damn plane so enough with your stupid conspiracy theory!

and body parts after it hit?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm


PENTAGON & CIA PRACTICED 9-11-2001
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_practiced.htm

The 'No plane hit the Pentagon' theory is so utterly, obviously HorseShit as to defy ridicule.

Sort of Self-ridiculing.

Anyone posting such crap merely brands himself a fool.

Best response is probably just to post a hearty 'HORSESHIT' a couple of places and move on.

Live is too short to try to rebut this shit. They just invent more faster than it can be debunked.

My favorite theory is that these are fellows who can't get dates and sit home all evening hanging out on the internet.

A separate horny reality.

The sun revolved around the earth :kick:

Don't really think so.

Folks who see things that all the rest of humanity cannot see are either...

GENIUSES
or
LUNATICS.

In this case....

well,

I don't think we are dealing with geniuses here.

ad hominems dont count.

If you have somebody making a complete JackAss of himself--as by claiming certainty that an airliner and its passengers vanished into thin air and that thoulsands of eyewitnesses are wrong--then the most reasonable and sensible response is a hearty

HORSESHIT!

For a long time, I kept around a list of links debunking the 'Pentagon was not hit by a jetliner' crap, but finally trashed it. There is just no point in arguing such stuff. Once you start, you've conceded the most important point--that the assertions are ridiculous on their face.

Put up or shut up.

And read the DU posting guidelines.

http://www.geocities.com/s911surprise3b/american_airlines_flight_77/
PACIFICATION OF PENTAGON

News archives edited by John Lee
Executive Producer
IDIOTBOX WARS CATV NEWS
Knoxville, Tennessee


American Airlines Flight 77?


LARRY KING'S ANTI-EULOGY FOR BABS OLSON ESQUIRE I UA93 INTENDED FOR PENTAGON? I HUNT THE BOEING I LA PENTAGATE I INCREDIBLE PENTALAWN I GULF WAR VACCINE GENOCIDE I OPERATION SHAD BIOTREASON I OPERATION NORTHWOODS TERROR TREASON I NORTHWOODS DOCUMENTS I BODY OF SECRETS I HISTORY CHANNEL USS LIBERTY I FOX TV X-FILES LONE GUNMEN I US MARINE CORPS WTC X-FILES I USAF ROBOT MUSEUM I THE POWER HOUR PENTAGON RADIO NEWS I AA77 LINKS I INFOWARS RADIO & VIDEO
(snip)
Doesn't look like they work here, but go to the link maybe

does horny have to do w/whether a 757 hit the Pentagon or not?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That's the title of a fine rebuttal to the "no plane hit the Pentagon" theory by researcher John Judge (who's also firmly in the LIHOP/MIHOP camp):

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/notAllCequal.html

Here's a wise paragraph from Judge:

"Until we know, we cannot act. And if we act on rumor and impulse then we are no less a slave than those who live in the denial that the propaganda machines promote. So, be cynical and question things, but be analytical and scientific so you can approach the truth when you speak. Three truths don't make a fourth just by mentioning them. All lies, in fact, depend on having elements of the truth in them for verismilitude as its called. Read, don't repeat what you last heard. And if you are going to be more than a theorist, then give conspiracy the respect it deserves, and prove it. Good hunting, and always come clean."

and 'my uncle's daughter's friend saw the plane' doesn't count.

Living in DC, I know eyewitnesses that saw the plane hit the Pentagon. To me those who deny it are little better than Holocaust Deniers.

there are few clear photos of the Pentagon site just after the crash, before the lawn was covered with sand. none of those shows a plane wreck.

but you will never, in a million years, convince me that someone with the minimal amount of flight training these goons were alleged to have could touch an airplane down as perfectly as they did to catch the first floor of the Pentagon. Whoever was flying that bird was an Op, or it was done remotely. :tinfoilhat:

Still, the lack of debris is puzzling, to say the least.

had pilot licences. All airplanes fly the same way - Pull back trees get bigger, push forward trees get smaller. You can buy MS flight simulator and have an accurate representation on how to us an FMS. Hell they could just get the lat-long for their targets and put them into the box and have the plane fly right to it! They didn't even need a clear day to pull this off.

If they had an mechanical problem with the a/c, these guys would not have been able to do anything about it. I doubt they praticed single engine ops, driftdowns, etc. All they needed to do was steer the damn thing. I can teach anyone to steer an airplane around in about 15 minutes.

As for debris, an airliner is a very flimsy piece of machinery. The skin of it isn't much thicker than a soda can (it has to be light, remember?). Hitting reinforced concrete like the pentagon is contructed out of would shread the airplane (similar to a car hitting a tree... tree usually wins with no more than a few scrapes while the car can be split in two).

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

if the plane did not break up in flight??

I know the DU has been through all of this, over and over again.

on the part of the passengers to TRY and overtake the cockpit. But the secondary debris field would indicate that Flight 93 was indeed shot down. Do a little research, then come back and explain how a turbo fan weighing several tons could BOUNCE over a mile after initial impact. Physics defy the popular theories put forth that the passengers crashed the plane. Eyewitness accounts state that there was more than one plane in the vicinity right before 93 went down.

Thank you, please drive thru.

that a story that big involving that many people would be very difficult to contain. I've look at the evidence and I can't explain the secondary debris field either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the plane was downed by a missile. Maybe it exceeded its tolerances and broke apart in mid-air. Maybe there was an explosion on board. Who knows.

Also, how many people would really fault the AF or the Guard for shooting that plane down... not many, I'd guess. So even the reason for a massive cover up is a little suspect, in my book.

to your suppositions?

Are there photos of terrorists taking over the planes?

Are there phone records of "Arabic IDs"? (How do you tell someone is Arabic from a phone ID?

What evidence shows that throats were slit?

Is there recorded audio of the scuffle in the rear of the plane?

The plane remained in the air 21 minutes after said scuffle.

No, that is not the end of the story. No one has been presented any evidence of what you claim.

People keep digging "this stuff" up, in an attempt to get to the truth.

Why don't you want to get to the truth?

No arab names listed on the passenger lists?

:eyes:

suspected hijackers' passenger list details were published, e.g.
from

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN010917.html

--------------------------------

Aboard American Airlines Flight 77, which took off from Washington
Dulles Airport for Los Angeles and crashed into the Pentagon.

Alhamzi, Nawaq — Passenger No. 12
Al-Midhar, Khalid — Passenger No. 20, Seat 12B
Alhamzi, Salem — Passenger No. 13, Seat 5F
Moqed, Majed — Passenger No. 19, Seat 12A
Hanjour, Hani


Aboard United Airlines Flight 93, which departed Newark, N.J., for
San Francisco and crashed outside of Shanksville, Pa.:

Alghamdi, Saeed — Passenger No. 2
Alhaznawi, Ahmed — Passenger No. 3
Alnami, Ahmed — Passenger No. 4
Jarrahi, Ziad — Passenger No. 26


Aboard American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed into the North
Tower of the World Trade Center after taking off from Boston's Logan
International Airport en route for Los Angeles:

Alshehri, Wail — Passenger No. 1, Seat 2A
Alshehri, Waleed — Passenger No. 2, Seat 2B
Alomari, Abdulaziz — Passenger No. 14, Seat 8G
Al Suqami, Satam — Passenger No. 20, Seat 10B
Atta, Mohamed — Seat 8D


Aboard United Airlines Flight 175, which left Boston for Los Angeles
but crashed into the South Tower of the Word Trade Center:

Alghamdi, Ahmed — Passenger No. 2
Alghamdi, Hamza — Passenger No. 3
Al-Shehhi, Marwan — Passenger No. 4
Alshehri, Mohald — Passenger No. 5
Ahmed, Fayez — Passenger No. 6

they didn't list their occupations as "Future Hijacker,' now did they? That just proves it's all a big frame-up.

:eyes:

Cheney gave the order. Grow up.

used in any other context--like Bush leading the charge to Afghanistan--takes on a sad, pathetic irony, doesn't it?

There were pieces of debris like eight miles from the crash site. And peoples' belongings were strewn to hell and back. Kind of like, you know, an explosion would cause. And, that it would have been impossible for Todd Beamer to call anyone from the plane. And, that all the families heard on the black box recording (also kept safely out of the public's hands) was some yelling, scuffling, a huge explosion, then a lot of wind noise. Hmmm.

I firmly, totally believe we blew that plane out of the sky. The folks on board may have indeed acted courageously. I'll believe they did. But I don't buy the bright and shiny PR that came out right afterward.

And hey, who moved the plane right after it crashed into the Pentagon? ;) (insert sarcasm)

We need the truth, someone...

:dem:

RV

my heart goes out to these folks, and I guess you believe what you want to believe to get through the day.. but how the hell do you discern a "judo strike" from the chaos that must have occured in that cockpit? And how come they can recover the passport of M. Atta from the wreckage at WTC, but the flight data recorders have never been found?

we should start making black-boxes out of whatever they make passports out of, since passports are not only able to escape an airplane plowing into a building unscathed, but it's able to gingerly float down from 110 stories, past all the fire, and chemicals, and heat, and dust, and falling buildings, and land delicately on top of a pile of rubble, with nary a fleck of dust upon its cover.

yes. that's plausable :not:

the only ones who claim a passport survived from inside one of the planes are the conspiracy nuts.

Iraq was behind 9/11.

Translation: I dont have to take any crap that the government tries to shove down my throat.

Especially the stuff you find about spikes in seismic activity around the WTC, and the manner in which the towers collapsed, all being indicative of an underground explosion...freaky and very conspiracy-theory oriented. I'm not one for tinfoil hats, but I'm starting to think there's a lot more to this than meets the eye...!

There is so much propaganda BS around this awful event. I feel terrible for the families. But I wish they'd get as mad as hell at the administration that let this happen.

Ack!

RV

.

The only coverup is Chimpy and Condasleeza having warnings about 9/11 in the PDB (Presidential Daily Breifs) months before 9/11.

Get real...

sterling record of late, I’m not surprised at the outcry.

their husbands and brothers were called heroes minutes after the plane crashed.

I'm not being flippant here at all (I'm only flippant when it comes to Lisa Beamer), and I imagine it's really hard for these families to basically be told "Oh yeah, we lied to you from the beginning and only used the deaths of your loved ones as patriotic jingoism to rattle the country and get them pumped up for some retaliatory killing of brown people"

I hope this makes the family members (many of whom have been silent about investagations, and many who have been downright critical about those calling for investigations) question other things about 9/11, and about Bush, and such matters.

These families must feel like they've been punched in the Gut----a feeling I myself have had since about 8:45am on September 11, 2001...

the story continued for a long time.

I'm wondering what "theory"? Did they listen to the tapes or not? How do they have one story for a long time, then over a year later, come to a different conclusion by listening to the tapes?

I find this strange.

I saw nothing front-page about this today, or the other day when this news came out. American's aren't listening about 9/11 now. 9/11 is *SO* 2001, ya know.

It's All Iraq All The Time these days.

Back then, when they were wratcheting us up for War, and the Patriot Act, and Airline Screening, they had to have a reason for doing all of this. Having a plane full of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" passengers overtake the plane and prevent it from crashing into one of our Nation's Symbols of Democracy (Patent Pending) is what the public needed then. THey needed heroes. They needed ordinary Joes and Janes to take control of a series of events that we ALL were reeling from.

But we don't need Heroes anymore. We've got Jessica Lynch. We've got Laci Peterson's killer to worry about. And don't forget about Kobe----those Americans on the planes were pawns for an illegal war by an illegal president.

They're through with them now. They filled the shoes they were given and now those people, and the stories about them that we were fed for YEARS go down the memory hole because 9/11 has run its course.

Iraq is the new 9/11. N.Korea and/or Iran will be the new Iraq. All the heroes we're given today will be thrown away tomorrow. That's the way it's always been.

I've mentioned this elsewhere on DU ... it bothers me that Bush has used the phrase "(the passengers) drove the plane into the ground" dozens of times in speeches, whenever he wants a tear-jerker or a "win one for the Gipper" anecdote while campaigning.

It would be just as reasonable to infer that the plane either crashed accidentally during the struggle, or (as the FBI has suggested) the hijackers aborted the flight themselves.

But it's rather bizarre ... plus self-serving ... of Bush to keep telling people that the passengers consciously sacrificed themselves to save him or his administration (assuming the plane was headed for the White House or Congress). The exact words he chooses ... I mean, if people were in control enough to "drive it into the ground", why do that instead of attempting an emergency landing?

I know someone who was married to one of the flight crew. Somehow I don't think her deceased husband would have chosen being a dead martyr over a live daddy.

it is self serving---and I realized that right after 9/11. In fact, when it happened, my husband and I looked at each other and rolled our eyes because we fucking KNEW it just had to be something. I mean, it's a horrible horrible thing, and we weren't rolling our eyes at the death adn the destruction...but to us, and other enlightened individuals, things were suspicious from the get-go, and only got worse and more blatant as time went on.

Everything for him is self-serving. He calls it "My Government", "My COuntry"---no dude, it's not *YOUR* Government--it's OUR government.

But it doesn't matter. He said it best when he said "who cares what you think?" He doesn't care about us, and he CERTAINLY doesn't care about the people who had to die on 9/11 to satisify his personal goals. I'm sure he wishes it were more, and I think that several people got the note that early-morning things should be planned for later in the morning, not earlier.

Again, I'm hope I'm not sounding crass or uncaring towards victims of 9/11. They, just like our soldiers in Iraq, just like our soldiers in Afghanistan, just like Iraqi's and Afghanistans, were slaughtered for political gain.

I mean, the asshole came out the other day and said He *COULD* have let the recession get worse just so any recovery looked better, and affected him politically in a positive way----are we to believe that if he's admitting to considering letting the country get 'worse' so it looks 'better' in one area, that he's not apt to do it in another?

The last 3 years have been so scripted. I just don't see how so many people can be oblivious, or ignorant, of the facts.

I'm sorry about your friends' husband. Just curious, but is she for investigations on 9/11? Does she feel the administration was complict in the act?

that the hero theory was a crock and that FAA types etc. just didn't want to rain on the whole hero myth parade since everybody seems to eat it up. The hero story surfaced WAY to early in the events to be anything but pure speculation and wishful thinking. I put this in the category with the story out of Columbine about the girl who got shot for saying she believed in god.

Somehow, they all died.

n/t

they should just be pro-active and retract every statement made from Jan 20, 2001 through the present....

since many 9/11 victims are protesting bush. It is in Bush's best interest to undermine the efforts of the passengers.

"See...they weren't patriots AFTER all...."

I hate this government

and having examined the photos, and the eyewitness accounts, there are three things that I am absolutely sure of:

1. Those planes were not the cause of the collapse of the towers.

2. While something hit the Pentagon, it wasn't a jetliner.

3. Flight 93 exploded before it hit the ground.

What all this means I don't know . . . other than we're being lied to. But with this administration, what else is new?

If indeed it is otherwise, it's way PAST TIME those *aliens be compelled to stand up before the world- put their precious *dauphin before the cameras with NO SCRIPT and have him answer a few questions with follow-ups. My bet is by the 4th one he goes postal. I'm being generous.

"Don't it alway seem to go, that you don't know what you got till it's gone- they paved PARADISE and put up a parking lot. Ooooohh, lalalala...

Y'all was complaining 'bout how Big Dog talked off the top of his head , yeah, he nailed it, but he sure went on and on and on... Now the "majority" seems to be consuming the the Soylent Green droppings that a slurred sentence fragment will suffice. I think NOT. For ALL our sakes, I sincerely hope not.

Are there other things you might have studied or read about?
How about some of these links
http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm
http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/05/robbins.htm
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/ratlines.htm
http://www.media-criticism.com/CIA_Whiteout_1999.html
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/history/vonBraun/Moving.html
The Phase III Report Of The U.S. Commission On National Security/21st Century
http://gnn.tv/dangerous/
The Nazi Hydra in Fascist America
http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp#fortune
http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm
http://propagandamatrix.com/archivebushclan.html
http://www.madcowprod.com/
George Bush: An Unauthorized Biography
"The Rise of Hitler: The Reichstag Burns", The History Place: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm

should also be looking into TWA 800 again, there are a lot of unanswered questions about that flight as well

The facts we have been 'officially' given contain not enough evidence to convict someone of murder. So why are so many willing to say: 'That's it, case closed' and not even consider that they don't have the all the facts?

Meanwhile there are those of us who have dug deep into other theories and come to certain suppositions counter to the media supplied theme.

Instead of asking for items pertaining to our source of info, the 'Case Closed' people talk about Uranus and stuff. And horseanus stuff. It'd be nice if they got facts from somewhere other than the liberal media, eh?

Ya know, OneBlueSky, I think folks will come around to seeing the whole picture, one day. I hope it is sooner rather than later. Peace

My question is how do you hide a plane? Its either there or it is not?

There must have been a lot of witnesses. Thats why this one is hard for me to believe.

But of course considering EVERYTHING else, its not all that hard to believe.

Another question I have is regarding the plane that blew up, or came down shall we say about a month or so after 9-11 in New Jersey.

That was too suspect and again the way they immediately came to a conclusion and all of a sudden it was off the air.

Frankly, Im jaded enough now to be open to whatever possibilities are out there. If we are going to discover what really happened, we have to look at all possibilities, however mind numbing.

near 129th street and Newport Avenue on 11/12/2001

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/queenscrash011113A.html

"We have been advised that that the pilot did dump fuel over Jamaica Bay before the crash, which is consistent with the pilot having some belief that there was a significant mechanical failure on the plane," Mr Pataki said.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/11/12/story29870.asp

Could the pilot have time to dump the fuel into Jamaica Bay?

the final spoken words on the recorder seemed to be an inexplicably calm voice in English instructing, "Pull it up."


She said the English voice toward the end of the recording was so distinct that she believes it's evident the speaker was inside the cockpit.

That's the first I've ever heard that. What is THAT about?????

on edit, BTW, that's Mark Bingham's mother from nearly the end of the article.

Some of the pilot DUers will be able to confirm this, but US commercial aircraft have several systems which give automatic recorded voice prompts to pilots in various situations. The fact is that if this is true, that a calm voice in english saying "pull up" is really the last voice heard on the tape, that would be the best proof I have heard that the terrorists put the plane in a dive to crash on purpose. The dive caused a recorded warning to tell the pilot to "pull up."

The Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS - "Jip-Wiz" if you ever have to say it outloud) doesn't say "pull it up" in a calm voice. It goes "TERRAIN TERRAIN!... WHOOP WHOOP... PULL UP, PULL UP!" and it screams it loud enough that it can be heard several rows into the cabin. There's no way it could be confused with a human voice saying "pull it up".

I don't mind the families wanting what they wish to be true to be true. However the idea of our Govt not shooting down this flight scares the hell out of me. That means our controlled air space above this country was unprotected for what, at least an hour?
I worked Air Traffic Control in the Military and was stationed during my tour at a NORAD facility. I just can't buy that we didn't shoot it down, at least I hope we did.
Stand down order indeed.

My gut tells me they shot the plane down. I believe that had they come clean at the time, murkans would have felt that the plane had to be shot down. They will catch themselves in the tangled web they have woven. Now PLEASE lets see some real evidence of this in time to undermine these looters.

would have a HUGE problem with the government shooting down a commercial airliner full of passengers. Talk about a slippery slope, that's an ice coated cliff.

Here's something you might want to read:

http://standdown.net/



Exposing NORAD's Wag The 911 Window Dressing Tale
Using NORAD’s Own Press Release And Fifth Grade Math

There was no need to shoot down until it reached the vicinity of DC. Until then, it is reasonable to hope for a miracle.

The families of the victims have heard the tape. -They- evidently hear nothing suggesting the plane was shot down. The only question at issue is: Did the passengers actually get into the cockpit or the did the hijacker crash the plane because the passengers were -about- to break into the cockpit?

1) It was just 10 minutes from downtown DC.

2) It was less than 5 minutes from Pittsburgh (if it turned back) and several nuclear power plants (in various directions).

3) It was just about 5 minutes from Philly if it turned slightly

4) It was about 5 minutes from the densely populated Eastern seaboard if it kept heading southeast.

If they shot it down, they shot it down in the right place.

"The families of the victims have heard the tape. -They- evidently hear nothing suggesting the plane was shot down."

I'd like to think I'm as deep into this story as anyone on DU. Talking to a few family members who have heard the tape, my perception is that they had no idea what they were hearing, for the most part. None of them had ever heard a CVR before, none of them had ever read a CVR transcript or legenda -- none of them knew what to listen for, even among those who were "prepped" (to be blunt) by a few well-meaning reporters.

Frankly, the family members were all listening for one thing: the sound of a loved one's voice. And what they had in front of them was the FBI's transcript. Put yourself in that position, and try to imagine how much useful information you're going to come away with.

http://www.john-loftus.com/enron3.asp

The Press on the BCCI-bin Mahfouz-bin Laden Intelligence Nexus

(snip)
A captured Al Qaida document reveals that US energy companies were secretly negotiating with the Taliban to build a pipeline. The document was obtained by the FBI but was not allowed to be shared with other agencies in order to protect Enron. Multiple sources confirm that American law enforcement agencies were deliberately kept in the dark and systematically prevented from connecting the dots before 9/11 in order to aid Enron’s secret and immoral Taliban negotiations.
The suppressed Al Qaida document tends to support recent claims of a cover-up made by several mid-level intelligence and law enforcement figures. Their ongoing terrorist investigations appear to have been hindered during the same sensitive time period while the Enron Corporation was still negotiating with the Taliban. An inadvertent result of the Taliban pipeline cover-up was that the Taliban’s friends in Al Qaida were able to complete their last eight months of preparations for 9/11 while the Enron secrecy block was still in force.
Although the latest order to block investigations allegedly resulted from Enron’s January 2002 appeal to Vice President Dick Cheney, it appears that there were at least three previous block orders, each building upon the other, stretching back for decades and involving both Republican and Democratic administrations.
The first block came in the 1970’s, as a result of Congressional reaction to domestic espionage against the anti-Vietnam war movement. In a case of blatant over-reaction, the FBI placed all houses of worship and religious charities off-limits for any surveillance whatsoever unless there was independent probable cause. This meant that all Mosques and other Muslim meeting places for terrorist groups were effectively off limits until after a crime had been committed. The block order was not lifted until last week by Atty. General Ashcroft.
(snip)

The families of the victims have heard the tape. -They- evidently hear nothing suggesting the plane was shot down. The only question at issue is: Did the passengers actually get into the cockpit or the did the hijacker crash the plane because the passengers were -about- to break into the cockpit?

Does it really matter?

If they killed the hijackers and then lost the plane, they died with their destiny in their own hands.

If they rushed the hijackers and the hijackers dumped the plane to prevent it being taken over by the passengers, then the passengers died with their destiny in their own hands.

Actually getting control of the aircraft is moot an neither version takes away from their memories.

www.standdown.net

... I saw a televised interview with a nearby farmer who said he saw the plane FLYING UPSIDE DOWN AND LOW seconds before the crash.

I can see no reason for this farmer to lie about this.