U.S. Missiles Kill 20 Fallujah Residents

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040619/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

"U.S. military plane fired missiles Saturday into a residential neighborhood in Fallujah, killing at least 20 people and leveling houses in the restive Sunni Muslim city, police and residents said.
...
At least 20 bodies were counted, and they were taken for burial immediately at the city's "martyrs' cemetery in accordance with Islamic custom of burying the dead quickly. At least three women and five children were among the dead. "

Residential area? Women and kids? Get outta here...

It looks as if the lessons were taken to heart, fire missiles into a residential area and hope you hit the target. If you don't no big deal, the "Patriots" back at home will still support you.

Yes I understand that it isn't the all of the military that is doing this just a few, who seem to be proud of this accomplishment. What could be next, perhaps tanks will be sent in, an operation like the one in Rafah on the Gaza strip?

Well it looks like the US military has finally become full fledged members of the "Do it the Tyrants Way" club, membership number 666.

Yes, tell me again Mr. Bush, why do they hate us? As I mentioned before, Negroponte's death squads will be all but non-existent in this growing sea of "Iraqi Nationalism." Killing those who dare unionize or deceive the junta is a far cry from: 1) a crusade against Islam (unspoken Bush implication); 2) neutralizing all the incoming terrorist groups; and 3) winning the "hearts and minds" of the scores new budding home grown "hate America" nationalists that are spawned from OUR (the USAs) state sponsored terrorist acts like the one above. I'm so depressed that we are killing the innocent and think that will not have an effect on the entire Arab community within the Middle East.

We were murdering innocent women and children before that nation was ever founded.

Killing innocent women and children: The buck stops where?

Bruce

,...residential and civilian populations.

There would be no insurgency had we not gone in.

These people did nothing to harm the USA.

We are THEIR enemy, having occupied their territory and now being intent upon controlling their nation and its resources.

...apparently we're adopting that terrorist practice.

now THAT'S news!

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They're only 'radical' cause you have a gory picture.

You don't see the Iraqis blown to pieces by our missiles, do you? :eyes:

BTW, 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'

...had ANYTHING to do with a beheading? Or do you believe that the US should be able to kill anyone it wants because there are bad men in the world who behead other innocents?

So if we degrade them to "cowards and radicals" it's only a small step to further down-grade to "Animals" and "Not Human" ...

And Voilla! The right wing radicals will easily extrapolate (like they always do) to claim, "Ya know what? Those A-rabs are *all* in need of killing. How 'bout we nuke the place?"

Again, in WAR no one can claim the moral high ground, i.e., atrocities are committed on both sides.

Dead is dead - whether or not you're beheaded for subsequent photographic shock value.

Reality check... neither is Bush's US military.
20 people in Fallujah including women and children killed by US troops. Add that to the countless innocent people killed in Dubya's military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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More cruise missiles!! :scared:

Killing women and children from the air with missiles is much different than beheading a White American Male! The American pilots who did this didn't mean to do it! So much different! You have to admit! Different! Different! Different!:eyes:

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Being sarcastic about people being killed is far different than being sarcastic about a particular argument regarding intention. Had I said, regarding an RPG or roadside bomb attack "Such a shame that those troops didn't get to do more liberatin'" or some other such vile nonsense, then you would have a justifiable analogy. But of course I despise all the death in this illegal and unjust war, so I would never make light of US personnel getting killed, just as I wouldn't make light of Iraqi people being arbitrarily slaughtered. That's your job, smart guy...cuz you apparently love death and destruction.

Let's tell the story accurately. Don't blame our missiles, or our tanks or our helicopters, or our bombs, or our guns. Remember the NRA...guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, the same holds true for the killings en masse of Iraqi people. Our military is doing the killing under orders from the command right up to Bush and don't you ever forget it! They won't!

Need that pointed out again, and again

:wtf:

:grr:

DTH

Coalition says it destroyed a safehouse used by alleged terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's network in Fallujah, Iraq. Details soon.

US says airstrike in Falluja targeted Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The U.S. military said an airstrike in the Iraqi city of Falluja which killed about 20 people on Saturday had targeted a safehouse for fighters led by Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, a militant accused of links to al Qaeda.

Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said he did not dispute Iraqi accounts that around 20 people were killed in the strike. He said there was ``significant intelligence'' members of Zarqawi's Muslim militant network were in the house, but there was no evidence that he himself was there.

The U.S. military has said Jordanian-born Zarqawi has played a major role in bombing attacks in Iraq and maintained a network in Falluja, the country's most rebellious town.The airstrike on Falluja left victims crushed under rubble after two missile strikes demolished the house, witnesses said. Relatives brought 22 bodies for burial to a cemetery after the blast. ``An American plane hit this house and three others were damaged. Only body parts are left,'' one witness told Reuters. Falluja residents say U.S. troops have deployed hardline tactics in the town that have killed scores of civilians and created new enemies.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-iraq-falluja.html

Well, did it succeed?

there didn't happen to be a Wedding Party there at the time? <grrr!>

is bearing fruit, 20 some odd people including women, children have been killed by US troops, <sarcasm>. Countless innocent people have been killed by the reckless search and destroy posses for Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, more to be killed as collateral damage in the name of al-Zarqawi.

as someone asked him how many members of his family were killed.

"I don't know. Maybe 10," he said.


Iraqi mourners walk away from graves after they buried the bodies of twenty civilians killed in an overnight air raid in Iraq (news - web sites)'s western city of Falluja on June 19, 2004. At least twenty Iraqi civilians were killed and four wounded when their house was destroyed in an overnight blast in the turbulent Sunni Muslim city of Falluja, witnesses and hospital officials said. (Mohammed Khodor/Reuters)

When will this bullshit end? Not before January, that's for sure.

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I take it you aren't going to be around here much longer...

Sounds like there's at least one terrorist on this thread. Killing people make you all tingly inside, ace?

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A slanderous and foolish post. Par for the course, Kiteboy. Nothing better to do than carry on like an imbecile?

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More mindless generalizations. And still kind of a loser move to troll around here with your bullshit, though I'm sure you feel keyboard-satisfied, as if your actually matering something. Sad, really.

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Does your low post status give you license to slander an entire community with false and vile generalizations? You must be a joy to meet for the first time: false-piety, belief in your own victim status, and ridiculous aggressiveness. I tip my hat in admiration to all your long-time friends.

the general rule here is to blame the dumbass* in chief and his idiot neocon fuckups for putting our troops in harms way. Now go read a book....

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Is that this community loves to blame US soldiers and delights in their deaths. This is not just a matter of somebody else having an opinion. If your opinion was that my mother was a whore, you'd have to deal with the consequences of that opinion if spoken openly, believe that. You don't get to punch somebody in the face, then run behind the protection of your own free expression. A cowardly pretention, in any case.

Stop ya' whining. Make a rational argument and back it up. Otherwise, if you're gonna come on here slinging mud you should be prepared for the consequences.

By the way,

WELCOME TO DU!!! :hi: :hi: :hi:

I attacked your message. You should try it some time.

and welcome to DU! If you can hack the truth you find here...

Ya know what? Why not, instead of kicking butt here, mosey on down to the local recruiting officer MKB? My husband's retired USMC and I'm an active duty Army Vet. So I've done more time than your fearless leader. Please show me what patriotism is and consider not wasting time with us (as Pickles would say) "little people." :-)

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Waaah Waaah Waaaah...I'm such a victim of the high post count people. Waaah Waaah Waaah. Perhaps if you weren't openly insulting everyone you meet here you would receive a warmer welcome, as do so many others? Something to think about.

You want him, welcome to him. I have no desire to have anything to do with him.

'Insurgents' and 'Enablers'--feels good to use those words, doesn't it?

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Sarcasm, I suppose, is funny when it's not your children who have been blown to smithereens. Even if it was a place for storing ammunition, why wouldn't your glorious military go and take the place in such a way as to minimize innocent casualties? Kids and women and neighborhood people? A shameful display.

On edit: The article doesn't say "massive secondary explosions" (a term you've invented here), but rather "multiple secondary explosions." Oh, and this information comes from General Kimmett, a known liar, a serial prevaricator. So, grain of salt.

It's not "MKB's" military. I'd bet money he's never served a day in the service. I have served and validly claim that most people on AD do not consider politics. They do what they're ordered and don't have time to get involved with current events, much less politics. Many within the military are also being used by BushCo. too. :)

And I'm going to trust him???

This missile attack is more of our shock and awe bullshit, borrowed from the Nazi war machine. It is the height of cowardliness to use missiles to do the job that special ops or a local SWAT team should do. The Pentagon does these atrocities in order to preserve American soldiers' lives so as not to antagonize the folks back home. No wonder the average Iraqi is learning to hate us. It's obvious that we consider his life to be inferior to an American's.

:puke:

targetting those who had gone to help those attacked by the first round. That's what does it for me. :shrug:

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That the World Trade Center towers collapsed due to hijacked airliners being flown into them, and due to the fires and structural damage caused by said airplanes. I'm also reasonably certain that those airliners were hijacked by a group of extremist terrorists connected with al-Qaeda, namely, Mohammed Atta and others. How am I reasonably certain, a reasonable person might ask? For several reasons, a reasonable person would respond: 1) I accept the majority of the evidence uncovered by a number of commissions and journalists and agencies; 2) Those reports comport with my sense experience - By sense experience I mean 2a) The incidents as I viewed them afterwards on television and 2b) The incident as I viewed it in person, in Lower Manhattan on the morning of September 11, 2001 with my own two eyes and my other senses, from distances ranging from 150 yards to 800 yards from the sites of the explosions/collapses. So, yes, reasonably certain about that.

But you're comparing this reasonable certainty with the certainty one should have about General Kimmett's statement that there were secondary explosions?!? The certainty one can have about the first instance is reasonable; but one can hardly have a reasonable certainty about the second incident. To say that one can be as certain about the second as most people are about the first is, quite frankly, dishonest. For several reasons. First, we have no abundance of reports about the second instance. We would, thus, have to base our certainty on the statement of General Kimmett alone! That's it. In one case, sense experience and an abundance of reports. In the second case, General Kimmett's 10 word explanation! And yet we are to believe that one could attain the same level of certainty about both incidents! Only a fool or a liar would suggest such a thing. The problems are of course compounded by several additional elements relating to General Kimmett's position and character: First, General Kimmett has a deeply interested position in portraying this not as a massacre of innocent people, but rather as a successful strike on a terrorist hide-out. That's his ONLY JOB, in fact. So, one must factor in that interest if one is being reasonable. Second, General Kimmett has been shown lie, reverse himself, flip-flop, prevaricate, and otherwise behave in a mendacious fashion in his description of other incidents of similar character. Troubling, troubling.

Was the WTC brought down by hijacked airliners? Yes. I am reasonably certain, given the information I have (which is to say, I've been provided with good reasons to believe that).

Were there secondary explosions at the Fallujah house(s)? Um, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I am certainly not reasonably certain that there were. In fact,. there are several reasons for me not to believe it.

To put our certainty in both instances next to each other, however, is clearly foolish and unreasonable.

I've never seen so many blown gaskets :P

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High-profile air strikes 'killed only civilians'
Dan Glaister
Monday June 14, 2004
The Guardian

The American military launched some 50 air strikes designed to kill specific targets during the Iraq war, it emerged yesterday, but none of them found its mark.

Instead the air strikes had a high civilian toll, according to military officials serving at the time.

Until now only a few of the air strikes, such as the use of four 2,000lb "bunker-buster" bombs in an attempt to kill Saddam Hussein at a farm in Masur on March 19, had been made public.

That air strike, which caused the starting date of the war to be brought forward, has been the subject of speculation, with analysts doubting the reliability of the intelligence used and questioning whether Saddam was at the compound.

According to the New York Times, a report prepared in December by the pressure group Human Rights Watch, said the decision to go for high-profile strikes against individual Iraqi leaders had "resulted in dozens of civilian casualties that the US could have prevented if it had taken additional precautions".

A US air force report prepared in April last year also confirms that there were 50 such air strikes, while another report, by the Defence Intelligence Agency last month confirms that all the targets were from the 55-strong list of Iraqi leaders depicted on playing cards distributed to US forces in Iraq.

(more)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1238021,00.html

These "terror bombings" have accomplished exactly what was intended; that just isn't how the C.Y.A. story goes for the post-massacre game of spin control.

I was thinking the publicly stated purpose: surgical strikes to kill "bad guys".

The Invasion of Iraq

Lt. Col. FRED SWAN: We annihilated that target area. Emotionally, there's just, you know, a couple of moments to think, "Wow. OK, we did that. Now let's move on to the next target area."

NARRATOR: The attack was based on an electronic intercept of a satellite phone. But such intercepts are only accurate within a radius of 100 meters. So according to intelligence sources, the coalition relied on a human source to pinpoint the target. It now seems likely that Saddam was in the area, but the source pointed to the wrong house.

MARC GARLASCO: I think the way that we went at it, the intelligence that we had maybe was not as good as we thought it was. Certainly, O for 50 speaks to that.

NARRATOR: During the war, 50 attempts were made to kill Iraqi leaders. Not a single one was successful.

MARC GARLASCO: The targets were all struck. Whatever the U.S. aimed at was hit, and hit magnificently-- buildings destroyed, smoking holes in the ground, that sort of thing. The problem is, the people who the U.S. was aiming at were not there.

Also, see hrw, U.S.: Pentagon Should Probe Civilian Deaths and links to the two reports there. Amnesty International has reiterated concerns about civilian casualties many times, and extensively documented some of the unlawful killings, e.g., Killings of civilians in Basra and al-'Amara.

...so what difference does it make?

This is the same thing that Sharon is doing to the Palestinians, with the same lame excuse. Bush is doing it now, and Kerry has said (in the many cases of Sharon) that its okay.

I am going for a walk. I should be fuming about this. But what difference will it make? I am voting for Kerry. So what? I can expect four more years of this kind of crap no matter who wins!

Yes, all you claim may be true. However, with Kerry, we're NOT apt to invade Syria and Iran too (a la PNAC's world domination plan). It's a start ... honest, at this point baby steps count.

It IS a start and if that's all we can hope for right now at least it's something. There are days when I feel soooo hopeless.

Progress = moving in the right direction. What you are suggesting is walking in the wrong direction - more slowly. That ain't progress.

Didn't mean to come off as all knowing. Sorry. <deep sigh> It's just that there are not any truly positive choices right now ... slowing the march to the rapture is depressing but it's so much better than having the Bush Administration in charge of our country for another four years. Yes, I get it ... profound frustration.

I have been known to misinterpret from time to time.

I agree with your point

Eunuchs that they are, of course it is nothing but propaganda now.

"U.S. Targets Al-Zarqawi Network, Kills 16"

I guess if some "US official" says it, that justifies the massacre carried out.

:puke:

What about the at least three women and five children, motherfuckers? Why not put THAT in your goddamn headline?

DTH

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:crazy:

DTH

So our guest then unhesitatingly operates under the impression that such bullshit is even remotely true..

No less 50 of these sort of massacres took place over the last year, not one of them "got him", "him" being whoever the spin control story said it was "targetting".

I'm still waiting to hear more about how "bad people have parties, too."

:grr:

You're at your wedding, one of the happiest days of your life, and both families are practically wiped out. WTF do people expect will happen, after that? If the (few) survivors weren't fighting the US before, they're certainly fighting the US now.

The whole thing pisses me off so badly.

DTH

IMO that was one of the most shameful moments in recent US history, matched only by the US media's acquiescence and complete lack of integrity in challenging Kimmit on his bullshit claims... Looks like we have more of the same. Somehow I don't think the dead of this "precision strike" will get the press coverage we saw yesterday.

I am still waiting for the results of the Pentagon's investigation. Of course I won't hold my breath.

:kick:

I do not think that the anyone has been able to confirm his death or survival yet.

Considering all the misery al-Zarqawi has caused, isn't it a shame that Bush did not take out al-Zarqawi when he had the chance?
Bush actually had several opportunities to get al-Zarqawi before the war started but decided not to take these opportunities because he decided that he did not want undermine his case for war.

See http://slate.msn.com/id/2100549/#ContinueArticle for more details.

that the US success rate for targeted assasinations during the invasion phase was zero out of fifty, you can be quite certain that, after the childrens funerals, Zarqawi will be releasing a new video.

Somehow while listening to some very cool lounge music, I find the juxtaposition of pleasure and pain to be so, well, nostalgic. Like the good old days of Vietnam. I'm really quite tired of this. And you know, we are finding out that so very much of it all is tied together in a web that is tangled by the lack of news coverage. Or at least honest coverage. Like how BCCI and Saddam and OBL and Dick Cheney's Haliburton all seem to be buddies. But the Sunni's and our troops, and the American tax payers, and the rest of the world, are all paying a price.
Will we unravel this nightmare of forty years of corruption? Will Dick live long enough to go to trial? Will we become a third rate nation before catching on?
Stay tuned...

But who gives a shit about the tens of thousands that we have done far worst to? We are nazi Germany.

Dr. Helen Coldicott has spoken for years about the effects of DU on the children of Iraq. Some say half a million died during the sanctions. This war is actually minor compared to that. It's sickening. And this country will pay, I've always said, with it's very soul. Each day this continues, America sinks lower.

We've had so many leaks and the latest about the DOJ memos was barely attended to by the corporate USA media lapdogs. The Republicans in the congress will NOT confront the Bush Administration ... never!

Our only chance is to vote these criminals out in November. I have NO doubt about the above after the Ashcroft-Biden incident. No matter what the evidence, the Bush Administration looks the accuser's in the eye and says, "Yeah, so ... what about it?" They don't even try to hid their beliefs that they're "above the law." With all three branches of the USA's government in their pocket, they don't have to explain anything.

Did Gen. Kimit really say, "If you don't want to see dead women and children change the channel"?

and a lot more of the sort.. perfect man to front for the crusade, all things considered.

children. Probably just forgot or something.

I mean US is not the only country with Terrorism problems, actually it is one of the countries actively participating in committing terrorism in other countries and have very little actual terrorism happening inside the country. Comparatively Russia, India and even china have over 10,000 people die an year due to terrorists. (including civilians, soldiers and terrorists)... In all 3 countries more people have died in Terrorism related activities than in actual war (Afghanistan cost the Russians around 15,000 Russians over 10 years) and In India at least they have had 3 wars with Pakistan with an ongoing war between the two in one state for the last 20 years.

But if Russia, India or China killed 20-40 people arbitrarily each time to get one so called terrorist, what would the US do? What would the world do?

Actually I have an idea from the human rights reports the US publishes and gives those 3 countries pretty much at the lower end of the food chain...

And then to fire on rescuers and ambulances, closing down hospitals and not allowing people to reach medical care?
I mean do americans expect others to show them any respect?

There is a level on how low one can accept as being a civilized creature on the human decency scale. If my wife says one more time lets go live in america I think I am going to screammmmmmmmmmmmm.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/EA2EC375-43E7-43B7-80E9-3C1E2CDFE1A2.htm

Iraq police dismiss US claims in Falluja


Falluja's residents are again burying those killed in US attacks

Top Iraqi security officials in the city of Falluja have dismissed US claims that a house destroyed by a deadly American air strike was used by al-Qaida fighters.

Brigadier Nuri Abudi, a member of the Falluja Brigade entrusted by the US occupation with imposing security in the city, said evidence showed the destroyed building was the home of an extended Iraqi family.

"We inspected the damage, we looked through the bodies of the women and children and elderly. This was a family," he said on Sunday.

"There is no sign of foreigners having lived in the house. Zarqawi and his men have no presence in Falluja," he said, referring to Abu Mussab Zarqawi.

US warplanes launched a fierce strike in the city, some 50km west of the capital, early on Saturday, leaving 22 people dead. Residents said women and children were killed in the attack.


Iraqi police insisted there are no signs of al-Qaida in Falluja

"This was an attack on a family in a house and it killed all
of them. There are no signs that people like Zarqawi were in the house or in Falluja," he said. "This attack was conducted without any coordination with us."


Civilians found their cars damaged at the al-Shahada Bridge

http://www.juancole.com/

Juan Cole, Middle East history prof at U of Mich. describes exactly what this act was: A War Crime. You don't just go dropping bombs in a residential neighborhood because you suspect there might be terrorists shacked up there! "Precision strikes" are not precise enough to avoid civilian casualties in civilian areas, and its the ultimate evil to write off killing innocent men, women and children as so-much "collateral damage". :grr:

Here's the full text:

"The US dropped two bombs on a poor residential district of Fallujah on Saturday, killing at least 22 and wounding 9. The F-16 destroyed two houses and damaged 6 others. Most of those dead, including 3 women and 5 children, belonged to the extended family of a local farmer, Muhammad Hamadi. The US maintained that the building hit was a safe house for the al-Tawhid terrorist group of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Local Iraqis in Fallujah maintained that most of those killed were innocent civilians.

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but for an Occupying Power to drop bombs on residential neighborhoods is a war crime. The three women and five children killed are not "collateral damage." They are human beings. They were killed by the United States. There are no such things as "precision strikes" in residential neighborhoods. Bombs not only throw off shrapnel themselves, they create lots of deadly flying debris, including flying glass from broken windows, that can kill and maim. Dropping bombs on an tank corps assembled in the desert and intending to do harm is one thing. Dropping bombs on a residential district is another.

We on the outside have no way of judging the various claims made in these sorts of situations. For all I know the Hamadi clan has a lot of blood on its hands and has been blowing up people. But if so, they should have been arrested by a special ops team cooperating with the Fallujah Brigade. You can't go around bombing residential buildings and killing women and children if you are to retain any respect whatsoever from the local population or, indeed, the world community. Remember that when Bush puts pressure on India or Pakistan to send troops to help in Iraq, one of the implications is that he is asking their military officers to be an active party to things like bombing residential complexes. They have publics that are already angry about the US occupation of Iraq and how it has been (mis)managed. They need to be associated with this kind of action like they need a hole in the head. That's the pragmatic argument. The legal argument against carrying out this kind of strike is that the pilots who conceivably be charged in some tribunal somewhere in the world, as, indeed, could everyone above them who approved the order to strike.

There were manifestations of public anger over all this in Fallujah, and presumably in the rest of the Sunni heartland. It doesn't do any good to kill 15 guerrillas and their wives and children (if they were in fact guerrillas) if in so doing you create 30 more."

"Juan Cole, Middle East history prof at U of Mich. describes exactly what this act was: A War Crime. You don't just go dropping bombs in a residential neighborhood ..."

AFP , FALLUJAH, IRAQ
Monday, Jun 21, 2004,Page 1

Iraqi police said yesterday that they had found no trace of the Islamic militants US commanders say were targeted in an air strike on the town of Fallujah. Only ordinary civilians, 26 of whom were killed.

"We have not found any trace of an armed group there," Captain Mohammed Abdul Karim said after Saturday's strike on the Jbail neighborhood of this hotspot.

"The raid targeted a poor neighborhood in southern Fallujah and hit the house of a man named Jassem Mohammed Fayyad, killing several members of his family and his neighbors," Abdul Karim said.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2004/06/21/2003175917