770 Specialists Discharged for Being Gay

770 Specialists Discharged for Being Gay

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By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - Even with concerns growing about military troop strength, 770 people were discharged for homosexuality last year under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, a new study shows.

The figure, however, is significantly lower than the record 1,227 discharges in 2001 — just before the invasions of Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Iraq (news - web sites). Since "don't ask, don't tell" was adopted in 1994, nearly 10,000 military personnel have been discharged — including linguists, nuclear warfare experts and other key specialists

snip...
Brian Muller, an Army bomb squad team leader who had advanced training on weapons of mass destruction and served on a security detail for President Bush (news - web sites), said he was dismissed from duty after deciding to tell his commander he's gay.


"I didn't do it to get out of a war — I already served in a war," Muller, 25, said in an interview. "After putting my life on the line in the war, the idea that I was fighting for the freedoms of so many other people that I couldn't myself enjoy was almost unbearable."

more... http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040620/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_gays_1

that however pressing the need, however dire the sitation, however serious the threat, keeping HOMOS out is always more important!

what this sounds like to me is a built-in escape route for people who don't want to die.

The guy who was quoted TURNED HIMSELF IN to his CO, KNOWING it would mean his discharge.

There will ALWAYS be homosexuals in the military, at least until they devise somekind of DNA test for homosexuality. It's a GOOD thing that anybody who wants OUT of the military can get out just by claiming to be gay. Want to wager why so many people "came out" right before we went into Afghanistan? I'd put MONEY on it that a fair number of them were actually hetero, but just didn't want to go die for oil.

:wtf: are the homophobes thinking?

:)

Anyone who does gets no respect or support from me. I haven't risked my neck fighting for legitimate LGBT rights just to give some poser an excuse to get out of the military.

Conscription is a very real issue, all on its own. Instead of taking the "easy" way out (and WTF is so easy about masquerading as queer, and spending the rest of your life being hated and ridiculed?), I suggest refocusing one's effort it belongs: protesting against the imminent draft instead of pretending to 'be gay'. :eyes:

...and let them "meet their fate" in Iraq...they are all such homophobes....

praise for their service in the military.

I mean, could you get out of being drafted just by saying you're gay?

but with details misremembered.

In the late '60's, a man's number came up to be drafted. Rather than be drafted into the army, he joined the Navy. And told them he was gay.

They said, "yea, right", and took him in anyway.

He volunteered for submarine service. He enjoyed it so much he reenlisted, repeatedly, and worked his way up the ranks to Senior Chief Petty Officer.

Then he was 'outed'. He was discharged, not for commiting a homosexual act, but for 'lying' on his enlistment papers. But he proved, in a court, that he had never lied, that he had admited to being gay and they took him anyway.

All benefits were restored, including his retirement pay, by court order... although he was not allowed back into service.

So, if/when the draft comes, and people say they are gay trying to avoid service... even if they are gay, they'll be taken in.

one I know (and knew -very- well 30 years ago) had the exact same experience.

i imagine you are not out sailing the high seas? just curious. i read quite of a few of your posts months ago. hope you are well.

work and stuff.

I'm retired from the navy, which means I have to get a 'real job'. Had one for 3 months, got another lined up...

:evilgrin:

This is insane. There is no legitimate rationale for this. :argh:

else could you expect out of them....I am not surprised at all. Bush is a moron then, now, and will be forever. What would surprise me alot is if he did something intelligent.

That the don't ask, don't tell policy was signed into law by Clinton.

Enjoy your stay here. I predict it will be a short one.

Buh bye!

of going to nam,dam, there would have guys dressing in drag to get out but as long as you could walk you were in the army...

:kick:

Unbelieveable.

eom

Isn't this the 21st century? How is it that some of the best are prevented from serving based on this reason?

Or are they just getting thrown on the streets with no compensations?

which was a dishonorable. I don't know if that's still true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

it was considered "at the government's request", which is not dishonorable.

...think tanks. Then they'd have been hired (at six-figure salaries) and sent to Baghdad to "organize" things.

True story: The Washington Post did an article recently on how the Coalition Provisional Authority hired young, inexperienced college grads with no particular qualifications (i.e., no Arabic language skills, no accounting experience, etc.) to serve in Iraq. Their common characteristic? They had posted their resumes on a the website of a right-wing think tank.

And yet they're throwing specialists out of the military. Does this administration do everything in the most incompetent fashion possible, or do they occasionally bungle things only partly?

I remember the article.

Google for "Heritage Foundation washingtonpost.com"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48543-2004May22.html

>>
In Iraq, the Job Opportunity of a Lifetime
Managing a $13 Billion Budget With No Experience

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 23, 2004; Page A01

....
When the U.S. government went looking for people to help rebuild Iraq, they had responded to the call. They supported the war effort and President Bush. Many had strong Republican credentials. They were in their twenties or early thirties and had no foreign service experience.
....

Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Joseph Yoswa said the CPA was satisfied with the quality of applicants. Some staffers may have been young and inexperienced, he said, but "we have people right out of college leading troops on the ground."

Yoswa said the recruiting office had to hire quickly for the Madrid donors conference that fall and "turned to the Heritage Foundation, an educational facility, albeit a conservative one, but primarily a place where you can get good, solid people." He said this was a one-time event and that there was no organized effort to hire Republicans.
....
<<

Does that mean in order to avoid the draft, all you need to do is admit you are homosexual????????????????????????????????????????

The world gets stranger and stranger.....

When speaking of homosexuals in the military, he's fond of saying:

"Who CARES? Let 'em fight!! 'Cause I ain't fightin'!!"

I'm so embarrassed for my country, most of the time.

Good blog w/corollary stories on the issue, and PDF chart with last 10 years of discharges:

http://bluelemur.com/index.html#6215

Thanks a lot, Mr. Clinton for bailing on the homosexual community with the finger-in-the-wind "don't ask, don't tell" compromise. It's a stain on his legacy.

This is why separation of church and state is so important.

It's wrong in any case, but given that the "zero hour" tapes were heard on September 12th, I personally find it even dumber to discharge a linguist than just an infantryman (or any other specialty where there's not much of a shortage). I'm not for discharging either one, but for all the trumpeting I hear about national security needs (when they enact Stop Loss), they could at least enact a waiver for critical career fields.

Especially for this administration.

Key Military Specialists Dismissed

Brian Muller, an Army bomb squad team leader who served on a security detail for President Bush, said he was dismissed from duty after deciding to tell his commander he's gay.

"I didn't do it to get out of a war -- I already served in a war," Muller, 25, said in an interview. "After putting my life on the line in the war, the idea that I was fighting for the freedoms of so many other people that I couldn't myself enjoy was almost unbearable."

The exodus of soldiers like Muller continues even as concerns grow about military troop strength, according to a new study. Some 770 people were discharged for homosexuality last year under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/21/national/main625160.shtml

EVEN Barry Goldwater was in favor of gays serving....

he said something about caring about how well people can shoot, not what they do in the bedroom.

Wonder if they would change their minds, if we were REALLY at war?

"Don't ask don't tell" is a Clinton policy.

was just an outright ban.

Allowing gays in the military was the FIRST issue Clinton took on after election, and he blinked in the face of the Right Wing firestorm of criticism and rebellious rumblings from within his own military (which I think included some negativity from Colin Powell too if I remember).

Clinton was RIGHT on this issue (his initial policy, not Don't Ask Don't Tell), but he blinked and compromised and never revisited the issue. Definitely did not have the courage of his convictions on that one. I remember how disappointed I was that he abandoned a righteous (and practical) stance and gave in to the prejudiced.

Anyways, this reminds me of when Black American soldiers helped liberate Europe from the Nazis, and when they came home they couldn't eat at the same lunch counter or sit in the same movie theatre as white folks.

We're liberals, which means we are not in intellectual bondage to our "masters" unlike conservatives.

In theory, "don't ask" is the way it should be.

I begged my best friend to come out when Bush started the war, she got called up but things got weird, her unit was dissovled and she was assigned to another then moved again, and then she got lucky and her interal organs fused together so she got to have a hysterectomy instead of going over there, so she is still stateside, and I am praying this will be over before they get back around to her. It has been awful worrying about this for a year, but I hope she will not have to go at all. Why any queer would feel compelled to fight a republicans war with as much hate speech has been coming out of their bigoted mouths in this election season is beyond me.