Kerry Talks Openly About Faith and Guns

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040801_1248.html

John Kerry is talking more openly about his personal connection to God and guns as he kicks off the general election campaign asking for support from conservative-leaning independent voters.

As his post-convention bus tour rolls through blue collar and Republican-leaning districts, the Democratic presidential nominee has repeatedly described how he began a lifetime of hunting and fishing as a young boy. And lately he's been speaking in more detail about a faith that he and running mate John Edwards share in God.

"We're running to be lay leaders, but there isn't any way that you're not affected by your fundamental values, the faith that brings you to the table," Kerry said Sunday to worshippers at Greater Grace Temple in the heart of the presidential campaign battleground in Ohio.

<snip>

Kerry didn't mention his interest in hunting in that speech, but he has been describing it on his post-convention bus tour through more conservative areas. In Greensburg, Pa., on Saturday, Kerry pointed out a small group of men wearing bright orange shirts that said "Sportsmen 4 Kerry."

"I've been a fisherman since I was about three years old, four years old," Kerry said. "Flung my first line out with my dad. I've been a hunter since I was about 12 years old, and I went through the whole progression, you know, BB gun to .22s to .30-30, you name it."

I was at that rally - I was wondering who was wearing the orange shirts - there were quite a few of them. I also saw a lot of men in the audience who sure didn't look like "wussy Dem men" as Coulter probably imagines them. Had a big guy in front of me who could've been a "Stone Cold Steve Austin" separated at birth look-a-like.

I think Kerry is trying to appeal to NRA members and gun owners who are mostly Republican. Sadly, I doubt many will listen. Most are extremely far-right

Democrats have guns, too, especially Democrats in Ohio, the rest of the midwest, and the south.

It is good strategy for Kerry to remind people of his own interest in hunting and fishing.

don't assume; the NRA itself may be very conservative, but a lot of its members are NOT. Many join up simply out of concern with losing their guns. A democrat hunter may appeal to them very much. Also, for info on democratic gun owners, just go into the gungeon and post "all guns must go"

btw, welcome to DU!

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

I used to fish when I was a kid. My grandfather was a hunter. I hang around with a lot of people who hunt and fish. Unfortunately a lot of them do buy in to the NRA rhetoric, but some are ticked with * and how the troops are being misused.

I like the way Kerry is handling the issue. I'm a gun-owner who thinks the gun show loophole needs to be closed.

I also like how he is handling the religious issue. I hope the hell the Catholic church keeps its nose out of the remainder of the election.

but i fish and target shoot a lot; one friend of ours creeped me out once, he showed me his AK-47 (!!) that he has for when, and im NOT kidding, the FBI comes busting in to take his guns...needless to say i just said i had to go really quickly; thats obviously not the norm, but those are the people that become the rest of america's poster boys for gun-owners


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

and BAFT come busting through on him. Wouldn't want to be in the middle of that situation.

or other recreation if I felt the need for it.

I wouldn't mind hunting during the season if I had learned when I was younger.

I wouldn't mind having a gun in my home if I thought I needed it. Of course making sure I had learned how to use it. But I am not ready to at this time with cost and time needed to maintain such a weapon.

I have enjoyed watching at times different shooting competition on tv and if I had had the time and the interest I would but there are other interests that I consider more enjoyable.

do you get my name?

You are also a song title by Men at Work.

Kerry is playing Bush's game. I had a right wing coworker of mine tell me that Kerry's doing that on gay marriage, too. Made the statement that the only difference between the Bush and Kerry positions on gay marriage was that Kerry was against the Federal Marriage Amendment, and Bush was for it, yet knew that it had zero chance of passing through Congress.

I had no really good answer for him. I wish Sen. Kerry would find his OWN issues to run on, and not just be seen as trying to look like "Bush Lite" on conservative issues.

Quit hunting since "guns are a Republican issue"?

to guns at all? Why not just leave his position on hunting guns available on his website, or in position papers that can be handed out at campaign headquarters? Why not use the face time that the news media will grudgingly give him to say something more important than, "I won't take away your deer rifle, either."

Heck, Sen. Kerry can go on a hunt, if he likes, just don't try to make a photo-op of it. Actions speak louder than words, and if somebody's on the fence about Kerry over guns, seeing him touch them, use them, and enjoy them ought to satisfy that voter's mind. Besides, he's already done that, and there are photos of his hunt out there on the Internet, if anyone needs to convince a friend.

...photos of Kerry using a firearm. His record on gunowner's rights is what gunowners look at...and it is not a good record.

Most people support the AWB, closing gunshow loophole, and other common sense gun regulation. We've had gun regulation of some sort for 75 years. So what's so bad or out of the mainstream about Kerry's record?

...rates his record at 100%. That is the first clue that something is wrong. It only gets worse from there. No matter how many times Kerry uses "machine gun" and the AWB in the same sentence, this falsehood will never attract gun owners.

If he supported the new brand of gun control, the one that actually does something, gun owners would view him in a better light.

And you've said nothing you know. What do those figures mean? What are the NRA and Brady actually rating?

...on firearm issues. These ratings have to be taken in a fairly high-sodium way but they are good at indicating trends over time.

The new brand focuses on the illegal use and/or possession of firearms. It specifically targets violent felons and gangs. It is, understandably, not popular with violent felons and gangs but is popular with gun owners and/or those that don't much like having violent felons and gangs sharing the streets with them.

Some recent articles on this new approach can be found in the Law Enforcement News section of http://www.atf.gov/.

We've had laws about felons and crimes committed with guns for a very long time. What's new about that?

And again, exactly what is the NRA and Brady basing their ratings on? If you don't know exactly what the votes are about and put them in context with reasons for the votes, then ratings are often meaningless.

...as a federal crime, not a state one, and punishments are certain and harsh.

The NRA, Brady Bunch, and related organizations follow about every aspect of a politician's job if it will affect how he/she will vote on a firearm related item.

And you don't care to know. You just rah rah on the NRA bandwagon. Got it.

The state punishments are certain and harsh too. There are more guns than cops and judges and the court system isn't going to be enough. Just like we need to get WMD off this planet to keep them out of the hands of terrorists, we need to get the worst of the assault weapons off the streets to keep them out of the hands of the criminals. It's common sense. 19 weapons out of over 600. Nobody's rights are being violated by banning 19 weapons.

...former. As for the latter, the court system will play a large part, not just for the deterrent effect, but due to the worst of the worst of our criminals being repeat offenders. You can talk about banning this or that all day long but you still have to deal with those that use firearms for criminal purposes and the AWB does not do this.

And have for a very long time. You can't solve violent crime with a hammer, you need the whole toolbox. The AWB is part of it.

...they are enforced and when the punishment is certain. I'm not sure if this has ever been the case though.

Part of the solution in the violent crime problem will indeed take a hammer as it will take force meeting force to deal with the active criminal element. The other side of the equation, that cannot be ignored if the equation is to be solved, will be dealing with the problems that led to the rise of the criminal element to being with. This is the hardest part of the problem to deal with and can only be done after the first part is dealt with. A one size fits all approach to punishment works on the first part but the second will take a good many carefully tailored approaches.

The AWB is a feel good measure that is supposed to tell the public that politicians are working to keep them safe. In my view, the politicians that are AWB supporters are saying that they either have no clue about violent crime solutions and/or just want votes.

another AWB supporter who has never bothered to read it.

One is willing to use American citizens as political fodder and the other isn't. One is willing to use our Constitution as political fodder and the other isn't. One is promoting total equal federal rights for gay couples and the other isn't. And you call this the same? :eyes:

which is unconstitional!!

Religious organizations only have to follow their requirements concerning marriage. They don't have to sanction marriages between same-sex. Some don't or have in the past refuse to sanction marriages with outsiders unless they converted.

The government cannot force religious organizations to marry same-sex or anything else. That would be unconstitutional.

And the issues are whatever the mass media say they are.

When we try to run on our own issues you don't see it on TV.

The Democratic convention had some of the most inspiring political
speeches I have heard in decades, yet the media barely covered it,
severely limiting the "bounce" generally associated with the nomination.
Kerry is taking desperate measures to retain the attention of the media
through the long August and the Bush coronation and 9/11 wrapping in
the flag ceremonies. This is a mistake since he will gain no votes
among the hunters and gun-lovers (yes, there are Democrats who hunt
but those particular hunters have *always* been Democrats. The rest
are not, and probably never will be) and he will drive a bunch of
anti-hunting and anti-gun people into Nader's waiting arms.

He has plenty of issues to run on! And he seems to be presenting his true self. Why object?

Welcome, btw.

He really is a hunter and fisherman - much more so than Shrub, I would add. I'm not at all sure that Shrub knows how to fire a gun, or could hit the side of a barn. During his latest fishing photo op he caught bass from a stocked pond on his farm. Big whoop.

As for gay rights, I have no reason to believe that Kerry is insincere in his beliefs. Personally I wish he had come out strongly in favor of equal marriage rights for everyone, but at least he didn't vote for that dreadful legislation that Shrub threw to his base like red meat.

One of Kerry's most powerful tool is to work on the great displeasure true conservatives have with the way BushCo has abused the Constitution, raped the environment and sacrificed brave dutiful women and men in Iraq.

Union members tend to swing largely Democrat in most elections. I've known soooooo many people who were conflicted in the 2000 election; vote for Bush to favor their right to bear arms, or vote for Gore to protect their union jobs. Unfortunately, far too many voted for Bush because of Gore's pro-gun-control slant, and we lost because of it.

The really sad thing is that even Bush stated earlier this year that he would resign the AWB if it were brought to his desk. Of course, he said this knowing there was no way that it would ever get that far, but he still said it. I like to point this out every time people say how Kerry is so anti-gun, when even Bush himself has publically stated he supports renewing the AWB.

...derides them at every opportunity. He answers questions from an anti-NRA angle even when the question was not about the NRA.


http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Gun_Control.htm

Democratic Party shouldn't be for the NRA
Q: Do you find it necessary to kill animals for photo-ops?
A: I don't think the Democratic Party should be the candidacy of the NRA. And when I was fighting to ban assault weapons in 1992 and 1993, Dean was appealing to the NRA for their endorsement, and he got it. I believe it's important for us to have somebody who is going to stand up for gun safety in America and make certain that we make our streets safe, our children safe, and not allow people to get assault weapons in America.

Source: CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003


I have no idea why he voted no here. These are the kinds of laws that gun owners like.


http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Crime.htm

Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms.
Vote on the motion to instruct conferees on the bill to insist that the conference report include Mandatory prison terms for the use, possession, or carrying of a firearm or destructive device during a state crime of violence or drug trafficking
Bill HR.3355 ; vote number 1994-126 on May 19, 1994



http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Gun_Control.htm

Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations.
The Hatch amdt would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors, and require background check on purchasers at gun shows. .
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)48; N)47; NV)5
Reference: Hatch Amendment #344; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-118 on May 14, 1999

on those issues than not. That's why Republicans can screw people but still get their votes.

I was just thinking the same thing.

It's finally down to this...we can't go much lower.

in the last week. With Bush in office and security acting more like patrol and control more so than protect and serve. I would really worry about disarming the population right now.

For lots of folks, guns and hunting are a way of life.

For many, g__d is important.

Kerry is just presenting a side of himself.

I'd be surprised if he opposed handgun control.

I don't have a gun, but I can remember enjoying shooting one with my bro in the past.

I support gun control.

I'm more into the feminist aspect of g_d.

I don't have a problem with what Kerry is doing.

Alot of people apparently care about those two issues.

so few people know who she really is. What's wrong with guns? They kill, that's what. ( Oh yeah, I know, guns don't kill people, people kill people). The problem is that killing without a gun gets real up close and personal in a way that many people wouldn't be willing to do. The world would be a lot saner without guns...but that's probably too much to ask for.

He's challenging Bush at every front and doing it with honesty. He's gonna get under Chimpy's skin, just watch. Yeah, it's stategy. Just playing the game better with a better goal in mind.

Has he EVER voted AGAINST a gun control law?

Kerry made a big deal about flying back to DC to vote on the AW ban renewal. He voted FOR renewal.

Kerry should simply shut his mouth on this issue. It makes him look like a total hippocrite. The election is far too important to be doing ANYTHING relating to gun control.

Kerry is not afraid to be who he is.

And we shouldn't be, either.

and then there's pulling a stupid human trick that pisses off 1/4 of the US population at one time and ends up leaving us with 4 more years of Bush. Kerry should not get ANYWHERE near this issue.

I've got news for you. There are a lot of good liberal Democrats who believe in God and/or who own a gun.

Here's another amazing fact.

There are a lot of conservative Republicans who never go to church and/or don't own a gun.

Howard Dean was right on when he said that the Democratic party needed to actively seek out the votes of the working class pickup truck driving Southern white males. (or something to that effect)

The ideologically pure or to those who can only support a candidate if they agree 100% with everything on every issue can feel good about themselves while boy George takes the country down the toilet. Me, I'm voting for Kerry and against Bush.

Outdoorsmen Are Now Seeing through Bush, Too
The Albuquerque Tribune | Editorial

Monday 19 July 2004

Some of the best trackers in the nation say they aren't fooled anymore by the backtracking conservation shenanigans of President Bush & Co. It's about time.

The trails left by this administration are disturbing. Its policies are causing real damage to wetlands and forests around the nation, including in New Mexico.

Recent surveys by the National Wildlife Federation and its New Mexico affiliate suggest that many of the nation's hunters and anglers are seeing much more clearly where the Bush administration is heading with its environmental policies.

The federation is among the nation's most venerable, credible and conservative conservation organizations. It bases its agenda on tried-and-true natural-resource science. Its scientific poll found 86 percent of sportsmen saying that concerns about wildlife and conservation issues "will be an important factor" in their presidential vote this November. More a third said it will be a "very important" factor.

Nearly half believe the Bush administration gives the greatest consideration in setting national conservation and environmental policy to the oil and gas industries. Only 15 percent believe hunters and anglers have greater influence.

For "the rest of the story"
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072104G.shtml

O.K. I'll accept Kerry using "triangulation" to counter the R's "wedging." Guns, god and glory aren't the exclusive domain of the GOP.

But I'm gonna be sorely disappointed if this becomes a rerun of the campaigns of the last 12 years.

There are too many important issues where Democratic Ideals cannot be squared with "me too" bullshit.

and many served in the armed forces.

Westmoreland County has a lot of gun owning Democrats who voted for Bush the first time but I don't know that they will be fooled this time.