NYT: U.S. to Give Border Patrol Agents the Power to Deport Illegal Aliens

WASHINGTON, Aug. 10 - Citing concerns about terrorists crossing the nation's borders, the Department of Homeland Security said on Tuesday that it planned to give border patrol agents sweeping new powers to deport illegal aliens from the frontiers with Mexico and Canada without providing them the opportunity to make their case before an immigration judge.

The move, which will take effect this month, represents a broad expansion of the authority of the thousands of law enforcement agents who patrol the nation's borders. Until now, border patrol agents typically delivered undocumented immigrants to the custody of the immigration courts, where judges determined whether they should be deported or remain in the United States.

Domestic security officials described the deportation process in immigration courts - which hear asylum claims and other appeals to remain in the country - as sluggish and cumbersome, saying illegal immigrants often wait for more than a year before being deported while straining the capacity of detention centers and draining critical resources. Under the new system, immigrants will typically be deported within eight days of their apprehension, officials said.

The Illegal Immigration and Reform Responsibility Act of 1996 authorized the agency to deport certain groups of illegal immigrants without judicial oversight, but until now it had permitted only officials at airports and seaports to do so.

more…
http://nytimes.com/2004/08/11/politics/11immig.html?hp

IT'S ABOUT TIME!

I'm a French citizen who has always been legal (I live in the US), and the INS has put me through the ringer, but I will tell you this: considering the fact that both dems and reps slash their budgets, and considering the number of folks they need to process, the INS is a great organization of overworked, underpaid, under-appreciated people. Yes, I know about the Laguna Verde incident, that's what happens when you privatize sometimes :P

Anyway, I agree with you. Providing additional powers to people that are fighting "in the trenches" is a good idea. I just wish we'd pay these people more.

The US constitution provides for due process not just for "all citizens" but for "all persons" in the US.

who "look" terroristic next?

Nah, no need for due process - speed is more important than accuracy, anyway, right?

And no need to worry, so we should also let IRS field agents just seize your shit when they think you owe. Those hearings are so cumbersome and drawn out.

And Lord knows no federal agent or agency ever makes a f**king mistake!

scary

peace

"Border patrol agents" have not been able, before now, to do their jobs?

As anyone who has travelled this should come as no shock. . . . If you don't have a valid visa you have to leave the country, it's soooo simple. . . . That's the way we would be treated in any foreign country that requires a visa (if we did not have one)

It's shocking to me that this is even news . . . seems to me that the headline could just as easily say "US gives highway patrol the power to ticket speeders"

what if a bunch of kids walk'n through town without their proper paper work... then what happens?

jethro gets to decide?!

scary... they need to prevent folks from comming in sure... but if they can now deport with impunity anyone they say doesn't belong here is way too much power to put in the hands of the police, sorry.

:hi:

peace

I'd rather have 'Jethro' doing the deciding than their counterparts in many countries I've visited.

Across the board & around the world, being caught in a country without a valid visa is a big deal, no matter where you get nabbed. In many countries Americans have to check in in local police stations in every town they travel to, or present their passport & visa at every hotel or guesthouse they spend the night in. . . . Having travelled extensively, I would much rather be stopped by 'Jethro' for such an infraction, than by 'Jethro''s Asian, African or South American cousin. . . .

i am not talking about 'Jethro' not having the abilty to bust whomever he deems here illegally but everyone gets their day in COURT or we're all screwed... specially if you got color.

"He that would make his own liberty secure
must guard even his enemy from oppression;
for if he violates this duty
he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

:hi:

peace

it used to be a guy with a badge was not judge, jury, and executioner.

But of course all nations with a party in power that hates democracy usually give police those powers.

Is a great thing & certainly a right that we all hold dear as Americans. However-

Being in a country without a valid visa, to me at least, is a black & white issue . . . Should a judge have to look at the passport to see that there is no visa? If so, why, when you or I or 'Jethro' can make the same determination.

I'll gladly debate this, but when you have travelled have you snuck across the border illegally, or grossly overstayed your visa? I have not either . . . I certainly do not expect that people should be treated more laxly in my own country than I would expect to be treated in other lands.

Peace

J

or left it home? or your dog ate? or jethro just doesn't like you or your looks or whatever.

nah... he can certainly lock him up but he can't or shouldn't be able to detrime your FATE.

think about it...

peace

I believe it would all work out in the end . . . . don't you think? Even if your passport was stolen, the state department would have a record of the visa that they issued to you . . . . It's all in the computer these days.

If you have friends who are here on visas you know what I mean . . . Just by looking at those things you know that they are easily verified.

If it was you or I, however, in a foreign land, we may be looking at having to pay baksheesh or worse.

and besides have you FORGOT wtf has been goin on the past 3 1/2 years?!

it's like OBL is wining and we are LOSING as more and more of our CONSTITUTIONAL 'GARUNTEES' and LIBERTIES r takin away as the public shouts/demands MORE.

yikes!

peace

Welcome to America where nobody gives a shit about anybody else's rights. Everybody should have the right to see some kind of arbitrator, at the very least. Cops aren't judges or juries and it's dangerous to give them that power. It's amazing to me how far people will let the government go these days.

Not to mention, it'll take about a hot three months before we start having "disappeareds" all over the southwest. The media will write it off to illegals and it'll take years to know we've had vigilantes rounding up our own citizens and smuggling them across the border the other way.

If I were in some of the countries I've travelled to, and my visa was no good (or I never had one in the 1st place) it WOULD be me.

That's my point.

People love to talk about rights, & how crappy things are here, but go to Laos, Guatamala, Myanmar (Burma), Cambodia, Tanzania, Jordan. . . or even Europe, for that matter & see how the 'rights' we afford foreign nationals compare to the 'rights' YOU would be given in the same situation.


When you mention 'illegals' you hit the nail on the head . . . what country, other than the US, would you rather be 'illegally' residing in, as far as fair treatment & rights are concerned?

If you've done some travelling I know that you know the answer.

:crazy:

peace

The point is if you are here with no visa it equals trouble . . . no kidding.

& the trouble that it equals here in the US is probably less than the trouble that it equals anywhere else.

What is so hard to understand? If you don't have driver's license you shouldn't be driving . . . if you don't have a visa, you shouldn't be in the country.

Seems elementary to me.

peace

I really do. But if you want to live in the kind of country you just described, GO. Things aren't totally crappy here, YET, because people are fighting to keep it from getting that way. YOU don't deserve to live in a country that respects the rights of its citizens if you don't understand EVERY citizen has the same rights, regardless of their ethnic background. There is no way the border patrol is going to be able to tell the difference between every citizen and noncitizen and they shouldn't have to. It's not their job, it's the job of the judiciary. I just cannot even believe anybody would call themselves an American and agree to allow cops to judge the guilt or innocence of the people they pick up. I just don't understand what's become of this country.

Cheech:
Took a walk to the corner store
Just to buy a loaf of bread and a box of s`mores
Up pulled a guy in a yellow van
Shiny gold badge flashing in his hand
<snip>
Chong:
Look here Alfago, watch my lips
Where were ya born?

Cheech:
I was BORN IN EAST L.A.
Man, I was BORN IN EAST L.A.

Chong:
Oh yeah, you were BORN IN EAST L.A.
Let`s see your green card

Cheech:
Huh? Green card?
I`m from East LA

Chong:
Alright, then who`s President of the United States

Cheech:
Oh, that`s easy, man
That guy that used to be on Death Valley Days, John Wayne

Chong:
Alright, let`s go, come on

Cheech:
Next thing I know, I`m in a foreign land
People talkin so fast, I couldn`t understand
There was nobody there to lend a helping hand
I was cold, it was dark where is a burger stand
<snip>
http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=17790&postcount=6

zactly... and a much better read, thanks :toast:

peace

is all I gotta say.

between being executed & being asked to return to your home . . . . noone is talking about being executed here-.

How is a border patrol officer supposed to know? How is somebody supposed to prove they're a citizen if they're just out hiking in the desert? Not everybody carries ID on them or even has a driver's license or official state ID. What's to stop the border patrol from saying it looked fake? You hate Mexicans so bad that you just don't care about any of them? This WAS their land before it was ours, you know. Some of them have been in this country longer than white Americans. Geez, I just hate white supremacists.

to accusing me of being a hateful supremacist??

Looks like you are the one who goes through life full of hate . . . If you can't discuss issues without flying off the handle and attacking others maybe you shoud just back away from the computer & turn it off . . .

And there are lots of people in the USA who look really Mexican, but whose ancestors had crossed that river while mine were still wondering why all the potatos had turned black.

This is a violation of separation of powers.

I live in an area with a huge influx of hispanics, and so many are indistinguishable from what uncle sam calls "indians", because that is who they were before the Spanish interbred with them. It is such an eerie feeling to hear all the propaganda against them yet to know that we STOLE this land from their ancestors.

I'm not sure that border patrol is really thrilled about this anyway. Do they, john q. patroller, really want the weight of this decision on their heads? I wouldn't, I'd want bureaucracy to work it out.

Also in this region there are tons of Russian and Ukranian immigrants. Border Patrol quick fixes won't touch this issue, and these folks are white, so profiling won't work on them.

I've never met someone having a canary over illegal immigrants who doesn't out themselves as a white supremacist sooner or later. And I don't mean an Aryian brotherhood white supremacist, I just mean the every day white guy who has it in his head that being at the top of the heap is his natural right. If we were talking about violating white people's civil rights this way, nobody would support it. But when it's those crazy Arabs or those dirty Mexicans, civil rights take a back seat to white American "security". It's true and it's disgusting. How about we just let cops decide who the gang members are and lock them up too? The cop on the street knows best and it'd sure save alot of time.

or immigrants in general.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, my point of view has more to do with my experiences travelling in other countries where visas are required. My experience is basically that if I don't have a visa in, say, thailand, and the authorities somehow get wind of it, I can expect to be fined, deported, shaken down, etc . . . or any combination of things. In short, it would not be a pleasant experience & would probably involve hassle, time & money. I guess I just imagine that the same thing would happen to someone here.

Also, when I posted my 1st posting I was thinking more along the lines of being turned back/sent home buy the guys at the passport control offices/airports . . . . If those guys can't turn someone away who does not have the proper documentation then what do they do?

Immigration is not really an issue for me . . . & I agree that immigration zealots usually are xenophobic, etc . . .

I just don't see how any of my posts can be construed to be racist or anti immigrant. This recent news regarding the border patrol was 'news to me' as I figured that is what they had been doing all along.

of the Government. Judges are part of the Judicial Branch. Each branch of the government (add in the Legislative) has its functions. This Separation of Powers is part of the US Constitution. Of course, it doesn't apply in other countries.

It's true that the legal process gets bogged down. I know many totally legal immigrants who've had to jump through hoops to get permission to stay & work here. They hire lawyers & spend lots of money.

If the judges who handle immigrants are overburdened, we need more. Legal immigrants will have things easier & the undocumented ones can be sent back without sitting in detention centers. I rather think that the Border Patrol already have enough duties--do they need this new one? Of course, this costs money. And our government has other priorities.

I'm a little late for this conversation, but you're right, we need laws about imigration just like everyone else does and these laws need to be respected.

Then you understand my observation.

The article is not about someone showing up at the airport, or even legal border crossings, with no documentation. I think you may be backpedaling a bit from your original post. It was clearly about border patrol picking up Mexicans and deciding their citizenship, all on their own. I think currently illegals are taken to some kind of INS office and the INS agents make the decisions, not the border patrol. We can't have law enforcement officers judging the guilt or innocence of the people they pick up. It's a dangerous path to go down. We definitely need new immigration laws and procedures, but we don't need to totally destroy our Constitution in the process.

Thailand has laws. Looks like they have courts too because this web site suggests a lawyer for immigration problems.
http://www.asiatradingonline.com/visaresidency.htm

Nobody is suggesting that people without documentation be ignored, just that we continue using appropriate legal procedures that allow for things like asylum and errors in general.

& that S&S is, in reality, a wonderful person. Right now, though, I feel as if some stranger just came up to me in a supermarket check out line and started screaming baseless hateful accusations at me.

And secondly, wouldn't it be more effective to not wage useless wars so we have enough manpower here to PREVENT borders from being breached rather then attempting to care of it after the fact?

they are on dry land when apprehended.

It's the executive branch's job to interpret law."

—Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

Bush has always had problems with separation of powers. I believe there was a more recent Bushism along the same lines. This is a trial run--use it on the "Illegal Aliens" first, then expand the program to make handling the rest of us more efficient & cost effective.

isn't that nice?

. . . unless citizens of those countries have been involved in smuggling or have been arrested entering the country illegally several times. Hutchinson said the deportations will apply to both borders."

``In terms of reforming immigration policy, this is very small potatoes,'' said Gordon Hanson, economics professor at the Center for U.S.-Mexican Studies at University of California, San Diego. ``You are not doing anything to affect the legal status of the roughly 5 million Mexicans in the United States without a green card. I don't think this is for Mexico. I think this is for Hispanic voters of the United States. I think this is for Arizona and New Mexico.''

Hutchinson said 42,000 non-Mexican immigrants were arrested on the southwestern border over 16 months. Of those, 28,000 were released into the United States and told to return for deportation hearings, but more than 90 percent failed to do so, he said.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/08/11/a4.nat.bordersecurity.0811.html

TYY

Officials of Customs and Border Protection, the agency that oversees the Border Patrol, said the new policy is aimed at people who pose security risks. "It's not geared toward Canadians and Mexicans," agency spokeswoman Danielle Sheahan said.

Monday, community members and elected officials applauded the increase in time allotted to visitors and shoppers with laser visas, who will now be able to stay up to 30 days in the United States instead of only three days.

http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20040811-154050.shtml