Ten Commandments (Christian Group to prevent removal)

Ten Commandments

A group called The Christian Defense Coalition has announced its plans to hinder any possible removal of the Ten Commandments monument from the State Judicial Building.

They held a news conference yesterday to announce an "around-the-clock protest" to begin with a prayer vigil on the steps of the court building at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday morning.

Protesters say they will kneel around the building and in front of the monument to prevent its removal.
For a wee bit more ...
http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/434732.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hmm good idea, me and my Druid buddies are gonna kneel around some old growth trees.

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion, but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law."-- Thomas Paine

When they were going by the name "Taliban"?

Talibornagain....Hilarious.

These folks are just getting their rocks off by doing this. (pun intended)

Talibornagain--ha! Definitely going to have to use it.

:hi:

Find a company to remove the stone on Sunday - according to the Ten Commandments you must keep the Sabbath holy and ergo cannot "protest" it that day...

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt
thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the
sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,
thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy
gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea,
and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore
the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

I've even seen some billboards around here, generally near major Baptist churches, that proclaim in oversized lurid letters that those who worship on Sunday, rather than the True Sabath, are destined to roast in Hell, or worse.

Literal minded Barbarians, all of them.

Hell, since they see it as the Basis for the rule of law anyways. Who cares what the CONSTITUTION says.

Never mind the first FOUR commandments make you beholden to Yaweh. Isn't being Christian technically putting other Gods ahead of God.

Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

This engraved hunk of rock is a graven image, right?

Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them

They're bowing down to it and serving it, right?

for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me

So when do we get to see a little good iniquity-visiting? Huh?

that the gov would be more clever about this. The fundies want a confrontation and I was hoping he could find a way of depriving them of one.

He got one. He also went down in history as one of the most idiotic, pathetic symbols of the anti-integration South.

I feel confident that Mr. Moore will follow in his fellow Alabamian's footsteps.

as obvious as that may be, it is still overlooked.

The easiest way to ensure that the TC's would hold the place it does, is to place other, equally sized, and with the same font, religious texts from other faiths.

Howevewr, with the fundy rule 'of law', that would be blasphemy. I am a Christian, and I hold no illusions that religion, any religion, can be forced upon people. I am often ashamed at those that would make items like this a centerpiece of their beliefs. It would bode them well, to walk a righteous forgiving, tolerant life; rather than find enemies around every corner and behind every tree. This action will only push those that might see goodness, farther away.

Understanding, is one of the keys to wisdom.

Yes, your frustration with your wayward fellow believers shows, and I offer you my sympathy for that.

One often has more in common with people of different faiths or orientation toward the very concept than one does with those who'd ostensibly be in one's own category.

In a self-congratulatory riff here, I'd like to remind us that one of the essential wellsprings of leftist ideology is the celebration of the different and the active interest in it. Rather than the stodgy separate but whatever of the self-deluded "tolerant" conservatives, progressives actually like to seek out that which is different.

It's also interesting to note that the real issue of a secular state is the diametrically opposed nature of the First Amendment and the First Commandment.

And they seem to think that they are being discriminated against. Even though other religions have tried to put up their own propaganda inside that courthouse, and that judge has denied their requests. There was even a request to put up a picture of Martin Luther Kink, and the racist holy judge refused to put up Kings' picture.

It is not about them being discriminating against, it is about white trash Christianity and their tendency towards oppression and hate.

SMASH THAT ROCK TO SMITHEREENS; HE IS BREAKING THE SAME LAWS HE SHOULD BE UPHOLDING.

Agreed, smash the commandments
no more religion

I never said ANYTHING about "no religion". Are you paranoid???

Bake

eom

said he wants the Supreme Court to explain to Alabama why they have the 10 Commandments in their building and Alabama can't. He is clearly a repuke who will defend Moore no matter how it hurts the state.

I don't know what is in the Fed Supreme Court building, but I bet they didn't move a 2 ton rock into the building in the middle of the night.

Why are so many nuts from other states coming here to defend this?

has fans here. Some of the out of staters could be some of his buddies in this area who were willing to drive a few hours to be with their hero in his time of need.

I personally would like to see all religious references removed from every public building anywhere. BUT......

He has a point. What makes the USSC different?

I'm sure there must be some explanation like it is amongst lots of documents. However, in the Alabama case, it stands alone.

The USSC commandments have been there for 100+ years. (back before non-christians and christians who believe in seperation of church and state were enough to do something about it)

Anyway - they are still there today for historic reasons probably.

Moore on the other hand illegally hauled them in under the darkness of night two years ago with some of his criminal friends EXPLICITLY for the reason of endorsing his religion and putting it on others using his government position.

Wow…This is what right-wing Christian groups are all about.

They are so freaking worried about the Pledge, God on the dollar bill and a monument on public grounds that they forgot to work against those things Jesus Christ taught like—

-Feeding the hungry
-Helping the needy, the less fortunate
-Having a life not dedicated to materialism
-Fought against vengeance, hate and oppression

Shit, if they did what Jesus taught us to be, they’d have to become Democrats.

brought down from the mountain by moses, a hebrew?? what the hell does this have to do with fundamentalist christians???

the 10 c's should be in hebrew!!!

simply hire Pat Robertson to remove it. Tell him that if he moves it, he can keep his diamond mines in Sierra Leone and his gold mines in Liberia. He's such a whore that he'll probably do it for free.

I don't see the court-ordered removal of the 10 Commandments as a winning issue for us, folks.

and frankly, it isn't much different than environmentalists chaining themselves to trees.

I expecially don't see the forcible removal of Christians (using the same tactics they use against environmentalists) as a winning issue for us.

We're as poor as Job's turkey down here! The last thing we need is some religious numbnuts judge costing us $35,000 a week so he can feel all pious!

Just say "We have problems with terrorism, the electrical grid, the budget, the economy, Wall Street, the environment, and jobs, but these Republicans ignore these problems and worry instead about the 10 Commandments and the Pledge of Allegiance. Shouldn't they be addressing the problems that real Americans are concerned with?"

That'd be great, if most voters didn't feel America and American symbols were already under enough attack in the world. Emotional truth matters in election. What other prized traditions should we take on??

are not an American symbol, they are of Christian and Jewish religious importance. If the only way we think we can win these arguments is to agree with the other side's point of view, then there is no other side. They will have gotten us all to shut up and at least pretend to think like they do. I'd rather say what I believe even if I don't prevail.

is the fact that a judge is directly disobeying the federal judiciary under orders grom God. And that a Bush nominee (The attorney general of Alabama, Pryor, isn't following the instructions of the judiciary he wants to join.

So if I became a judge and put up writings from the church of satan you wouldn't have a problem with it?

Or does your sympathy just extend to christians?

"...Thou shall not take moochers into thy...tent?"
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:t1sK7Wk0mlUC:
:)

frowned upon.

As far as winning issues go, I as a democrat am not involved in this one. It's Moore and the fundies vs. SCOTUS and the feds. I intend to prop back in my chair with my popcorn and enjoy the entertainment.

Reckon their heroes, A. Scalia and C. Thomas would uphold a law requiring all Americans to 'remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy?' Would Scalia consider it a state's right to make such a law?

That's what dissenters get, right?

should be labeled "terraist" and sent to Gitmo with the Taliban. And Judge Moore, too, he is after all the High mullah of the Talibama fanatics.

It's not really old superstition scrawled on a bit of rock, you know. It's idiots like Moore. Fuck the rock. Remove the judge. When there are no more crazy assholes in power who would enforce their superstition; when no more--Christian or otherwise--would hold us accountable to their imagined laws from their imagined god, then rocks will be rocks, judges will be judges, and this asshole will be as relevant as hairshirts and witchhunts.

I'm going to your church.
:)

or tarbaby, or whatever. in the meantime, i'm not worried about my antipathy toward my mother keeping me from "living long upon the earth," i'll not fear retribution for "coveting," and i'll look for codes of behavior not based upon stories of spirit beings presenting them upon tablets of stone.

Several of the 10C are ridiculously unconstitutional. No one that I can see is claiming otherwise.

However, to blithely label the ones that we still encorporate into our codes of law today as 'superstition' is, well, at the most charitable, shortsighted.

i'll look for codes of behavior not based upon stories of spirit beings presenting them upon tablets of stone.

You'd do well to take a very close look at our current laws, then. Stealing, murder and adultery are still illegal, last I checked, regardless if they originated from 'spirit beings' or polka-dotted Martians.

i'm not missing any points here. first, i'm also not going to get into an argument about the basis of legal systems, crime and punishment, social contracts or otherwise. second, the ten commandments are hardly *the* source for prohibitions on murder and theft, both of which seem to be fairly universal. third, "superstition" as i used it applies to stories of the origin of the ten commandments and to "the ten commandments" as a whole entity, an idea which is inseparable from the idea of the judeo-christian god. if that wasn't clear before (i think it should have been, but i could be wrong) it will be now.

finally: as i said, my problem isn't the rock, the commandments, or even the story behind them really. my problem is having judges who believe things like the following:

The monument serves to remind the appellate courts and judges of the circuit and district courts of this state and members of the bar who appear before them as well as the people of Alabama who visit the Alabama Judicial Building of the truth stated in the preamble of the Alabama Constitution, that in order to establish justice we must invoke "the favor and guidance of Almighty God."
-- Judge Roy Moore,

If you're here tonight to support me, you shouldn't be here. This is not about me. This is about something far more important. It transcends race, it transcends politics, it transcends gender. This is about the laws of God.
-- Judge Roy Moore, laying it on thick at a rally to blast the ACLU and "working the evangelical crowd into a frenzy," quoted from William C. Singleton III, "Judge Blasts ACLU In Alabama Rally" (February 23, 1997)

Polygamy and adultery are two VERY different things.

Adultery is NOT a crime. Polygamy is.

Adultery, in some states, quite clearly IS illegal.

Only ONE Commandment is needed and it covers them all without old worn out doctrines creating guilt trips. And I don't think I need to tell
you what that ONE Commandment would be.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It's so funny how the people who want the ten commandments in public places don't even know what the ten commandments are.

Rather like those who willfully ignore the 10C's place in the development of law in the West.

are those ignoramuses who believe that the ten commandments are the basis for US law, when the first amendment to the constitution is in direct contradiction with the first commandment.

I meet plenty of them on other websites, and they are simply not to be convinced otherwise.

from a "god" are IMO superstition. They have to be as he does not exist.

That does NOT mean such laws are not good to have.

And it is convenient that you ignore that blatantly god only commandments. i.e. have no other god before me.

I plainly stated in another post that several are blatantly unconstitutional. It's convenient that you seem unable to read any further than fits your preconceptions.

Let's hold on a minute, here, and remember that we're supposed to be the party of tolerance.

As someone else pointed out, not all Christians support what the far-right fringe is doing, and many of us hate to be associated with them. I think most of us would agree with the principles of many or most of the 10 Commandments (assuming most of us frown on murder, adultery, perjury, and theft).

The 10 Commandments are a very important statement of religious belief, and people are entitled to give them great respect. We also can't deny that civil laws sprang from many of the 10 Commandments' principles, and acknowledging their influence (along with that of such other important documents as the Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta) is constitutional.

But....that's not what this debate is about. The sculpture here excludes other sources of law, civil or religious, and clearly is intended to convey religious meaning. The best example of this is the reaction of the religious right, kneeling in front of the sculpture and holding prayer vigils. Would they respond the same way to a rendering of the Declaration of Independence?

I think no one should be more obssessed with keeping religious and governmental issues separate than religious people. Historically, when the government gets involved in religion, society doesn't get better -- religion gets worse.

As I like to point out, during the time we had prayer in schools, many of those schools were racially segregated. Obliterating the First Amendment solves nothing.

And as a card-carrying member of the non-believers, I cannot express how valuable messages like these are. I can't bring much influence against the forces of darkness, but you can. You and all other believers who are progressives or liberals or whatever can provide us a great service by "keeping your hand in" with the forces of intolerance who would marginalize those who don't agree.

The real issue about Article One is not pro or con religion, it's religion neutral: the premise is that belief should have no say in the actions of government. Sure, it can inspire, but the policies and such have to stand the test of reason, testing and unbiased science without allowing any individual to have a privileged voice by being "better"

Except for the most religious person, we can generally agree that many things can be done just fine--even better, in fact--without religion. The cold-blooded reality is that religion is not like food, it's more like a type of food. Huh? Well, you can live perfectly well without it, be moral, ethical, efficacious, enjoyable, productive, spiritual and philosophical without believing. You can certainly do all of the things government is supposed to do without it. So, maybe religion is a chocolate malt; you can live without it. Government is food; you can't live without that (unless you're a hermit, and even then you depend on the stability provided by them). I hate the way extremists polarize everyone, but I'm encouraged by those like you who see more in common with heathens like me than the thugs of intolerance.

Religion doesn't make you "good" and non-belief (or even a fair strain of "anti-belief") doesn't make you "bad". Regardless, this religion, as clearly shown in the first commandment, is by nature divisive, hierarchical, elitist and privileged; that's just plain 'ol anti democratic.

Dammit.

Welcome to the board!

Laws regarding theft, adultery, murder pre-dated the commandments.

the sculpture in question contains the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independance as well. so technically, when people are praying in front of it, they may well be praying to the Declaration as well.

oh yeah, I remember now. Say! Can someone give me some religion advise?

Can a person be an atheist and be a good red blooded American patriot? If so could that one be also a conscious objector?

Where's that Moore guy that claims to be a judge? Never mind, he'd have shot!

They just had a thing on the bottom of the screen saying the supreme court won't hear Moore's appeal. Then it just went away and the anchor didn't talk about. I guess it was just a mistake.

First the ruling against sodomy laws, and now this.

Which is why Bush better not get a chance to put a supreme up after 2004.

dealt with fairly, using the conservative definition of "fair" And for that, we need to look at how things were handled at Kent State.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
Distrusting the Government Since 1984

That your suggestion? That's the sentiment you want to express? Now *that's* progressive.

The people who back this in Alabama are ONLY posting the Protestant version.....the Catholic version and the Jewish Version are not in the AL building...ergo, its bullshit and pits christian against christian against jew...


Drag it out in chains, with Roy Moore, and educate some of these people with the MONEY they will be spending on fines....


http://www.uctaa.org/Essays/reflections/commandments/versions.html

right into the Chief Justice job. Watch him ride them right into the governor's mansion. If you don't think that some snake-oil salesman can't parlay the 10C into a governorship, you don't live in Alabama. For some inexplicable reason, the trogs here take great pride in their state becoming the hole in the southern donut, as long as it's a holy hole.

Now, where is that Sauza...

Judge Moore is full of it!

They're just showing their appreciation to god for the good job that *Bush has done.

live by the spirit it espouses....

Religious wars: One of the Biggest killers in the history of mankind